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Genesis chapter 1. Explained with a bit of Pseudoscience:)

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posted on Apr, 30 2010 @ 11:55 AM
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Genesis chapter 1. Explained scientifically with Pseudoscience.



I am going to try and explain chapter one in Genesis as scientifically as I can. I am going to try and use as many scientific details as I can, but in a way that would make this as easy to understand as possible.
I am also going to use some images that I have created to make the theory easier to understand.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

In the beginning God created heaven and the earth. This is the first creation God made according to this chapter. So we can assume that before God created heaven and earth, there was only God and nothing else.

But what is God? The Bible explains what God is. The Bibles explanation of what God is, is also supported by science. It’s just that most people don’t recognize this when they read science.

The definition of God used in the Bible.

I am going to use three definitions mentioned in the Bible.

1. Pure energy.
2. No Beginning and No End. (infinity)
3. Always was and always is.

Science has a few things to say about this as well.

1. Pure energy can’t be created.
2. Energy can’t become Zero. (Non existing)
3. Energy always was and always is.

So far science agrees with the Bible.

I would just like to mention that Zero can’t be used to explain the beginning. Because a infinity source must exist. If it didn’t Neither God or the existence of finite would have existed.

Many people ask themselves how could nothingness create anything?

I am going to display a image of nothingness.

Image1.
Nothingness



In this image you will see nothing. But in reality you will see something. You will see a black image. This image is displayed without human interference. There are no lines or symbols to give this image anything else than a flat square black dimension. I have not put in any lines or symbols to give this image depth. This image has no real information associated with our symbols of measurements. So we have no real references to make anything out of this dimension of nothingness.
This image represents infinity before God created finite (The heaven and the earth).

This image also represents what pure infinite energy would look like. Pure energy would be observed as pure darkness.
The image would be pure darkness, because there are no “finite” energies moving around creating light. Only pure infinite energy exists. God hasn’t created heaven and earth yet.

Since this image represents infinity, everything that is needed to create existence is within this image. There are no other places for energies or other dimensions to be located, other than within the infinite black dimension.

“This image represents the physical image of God”.

In the next image bellow I will give the image depth to illustrate how the black image is a infinite black dimension.
To do this I have to draw at least three lines that cross each other. These three red lines represent our measuring system of: Height. Length and Depth. A three dimensional perspective of the infinite darkness.

Image 2. With depth.


If I put in a observer into the black image. He would’t be able to see anything. Not even himself, but he would be able to move he’s body. Because the black dimension is infinite in all directions.

Image 3. With a observer. NB this observer is not God.



Keep in mind that I used our measuring system to give the black image depth. It’s the only way possible to display it visually to you. That is the only real purpose these three lines have. The three lines give a perspective of depth to the black image. But the observer would never be able to observe depth or the three lines I put into the image. We would never have seen the observer from our position either.
Now, we are just about ready to begin with how God created heaven and earth. But before I go on I have to say a few things about Infinite and Finite.

A good way to explain the difference between the infinite and finite is:

-Infinite is always larger in size and volume compare to a finite.
-Infinite is both infinitely big and infinitely small at the same time. A finite can be measured. The infinite cannot be measured.

What this basically means is that all finite energy and matter can only exist “within” the infinite black dimension. (Inside the black space)

Since all finite energies and matter must exist within the infinite black space (dimension). It must have been created somehow by the infinite itself. This brings us to talk a bit about intelligence.

Infinity cannot change on its own, without a command. Infinity takes up all possible space there is. So there is no cause for it to be moving. So infinity must be a constant. And we all know that a constant won’t change on its own.

It should be very obvious that infinity must have intelligence and a intelligent function. Because we humans have intelligence, and a intelligent function.

We humans cannot have something that does not already exist within the infinite. It’s just that our intelligence and functions are limited to our finite existence. Infinity would most likely not have any of our finite restrictions.

Intelligence is the reason why we have given infinity the name God. God (infinity) created a finite existence (heaven and earth) with a purpose. If not a finite existence would never have been created.

You can compare this to your own free will. If you don’t want to do anything, you won’t do anything. Your body only responds to your command. Nothing will happen unless you want it to.



Ok let’s begin.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth?



To explain this scientifically I am going to use images.

This is what existence would look like before God said: Let there be light.


“And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters”.


In the image bellow I am going to put in some lines to help you visualize how God initiated he’s creation.


Where the three red lines cross each other, is where God is going to initiate he’s creation. At this point in time infinity is a constant. There are no changes.

Then God begins he’s creation by initiating a compression of the infinite energy.

“God said, let there be light”.

Many will probably wonder why it must have been done by a compression! The reason it must have been done by a compression, is because a finite existence can only exist WITHIN the infinite black dimension. The other reason is, because all energies and matter change, emit energy and expand. I am going to explain this more later.

In the image under I have used the three red lines to visualize the concept of what the compression would of looked like. As you can see the three lines point to where the three lines cross each other. The red arrows represent the direction which the energy is moving.



Depending on the force God used to compress infinity. I would assume that light would have emerged immediately. And a Big bang would probably have been heard after a while if there was a observer nearby


Now the big question would be: How could God compress infinity? Well first of, God is infinity.
The best way to explain it would be. By the same way we can flex “all” our muscles in our body at the same time. Flexing is a form of compression.
God controls infinity, since he is infinity. So God should be able to flex himself as well . Do I see a big smile now lol


There is no other way a compression could have been initiated. Because if so, that would imply that there must be a greater existing force outside the infinite. But there is no room for a greater force outside the infinite.

We are now getting to the point where finite energy and matter are emerging. When a compression is initiated energy is also emitted. One of these emitted energies would be light. I am going to illustrate this with the images bellow. The red lines illustrate the direction of compression. The yellow lines illustrate light as emitted energy.


God said: Let there be light.

The image bellow will illustrates what the result of a compression would really look like.

“And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness”.

Light is the first visual reference of Gods compression (creation).
As you can see God did not really create heaven and earth first. God said, let there be light first. Before he created heaven and earth.
The compression of infinite energy is creating heaven and earth. The result of this would be the creation of light. This is basic science! is it not lol?  Well it makes sense.

In my next image I am going to illustrate the order of:

1. God.
2. Heaven.
3. Earth.

The order is very important to understand, because it illustrates why our universe is expanding, and why matter is changing by emitting energy. It also tells you what the difference is between the firmament and waters.

To be continued in a few minutes in a new post under this one.




posted on Apr, 30 2010 @ 12:34 PM
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The red circle in the middle represents earth (firmament) and rest of the solid universe. The yellow circle represents heaven (the waters) which is emitted energy. The black edge covering the rest of the image represents infinite darkness (God). The red line from earth to heaven to God, represents the direction which all emitted energy is moving. “In the direction which the waters are moving”.
We also call this expansion. Everything is not actually moving in this direction, but changing, emitting energy gradually from a compressed energy state to a state of infinite darkness (pure energy).

-Pressure/temperature also works by the same principle. Pressure will always expand in the direction with less resistance or less temperature. Pressure and temperature go hand in hand.

To understand this we have to remember that God compressed pure energy into finite energy.
That means that finite energy must have higher pressure than infinite energy. This compressed finite energy would want to expand back to what it used to be “Infinite energy”. Like we all say. Nothing can last forever! Well that is exactly what I am trying to explain.

Ok, since we now know a bit about expansion, we can move on and explain the rest.

Light is the first visual sign of a creation. Nothing else will be visual until the light dimes down and is reduced. This will only happen if Gods compression is reduced.

How is Gods compression reduced?

This is actually very easy to explain, but probably harder for some of you to understand. Some of you would understand it by just looking at the image above.

- If you look at the image above! Where would you find all the solids (packed energies)?

"All the solids would be inside the red circle".

- If you look at the yellow aria you will find nothing but emitted energies.

The yellow aria with emitted energies, play a big role in the reduction of Gods compression.
The yellow aria creates a differential between the infinite darkness and earth. The yellow aria creates a barrier that reduces the compression on Earth. Emitted energy is moving towards the infinite darkness. So earth will start to cool down and it will become gradually visual within the waters of heaven.


“And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters”.

(By saying this God also stopped the compression). God is happy and moves on.

I am going to display a image bellow that will illustrate what this would look like.


This is the image i made all by my self






And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

So what this means is that we have moved from this stage. Image under.




To the stage you see in this image.





Now I am going to explain what God means by:

"Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters".

I have to break this event into two different events.

1. Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters. This is one event.

This is what God did when he said: Let there be light.

God created the firmament (earth the solids) in the midst of the waters. Here God is explaining that he put the firmament in the middle of infinite darkness (pure infinite energy. Water).

2. And let it divide the waters from the waters. This is the second event.

And let it divide the waters from the waters means: Let the emitted energy from the firmament be different than the infinite energy. God is talking about heaven. Emitted energies.

I know this view will create a comment or two. Because it contradicts what Moses is explaining in Genesis. But think about it! Heaven is not a solid and never was.

The image bellow will support my explanation.



The red circle represents the firmament. The yellow and black represents the waters.

What the image doesn't tell is that heaven consists of many different types of emitted energies from the firmament. Because that's where all the emitted energies are coming from.

In other words, water is separated by many other different types of waters.

The firmament is more solid then the waters. So the waters will expand faster than the firmament. This will create a cooling effect and the firmament will become visual and harden. And it will look like the firmament is floating in water

See. Take a look and judge for yourself.


Here you see Earth and Jupiter floating in the waters of heaven.

“And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so”.

God is now focusing on earth’s atmosphere.

Earth is already floating in the midst of the waters of heaven. Moses has already explained this earlier.

Ok, we have earth floating in the waters of heaven. But to understand this we have to step back a bit. God created the firmament (earth) by a compressing energy. This must have created a tremendous amount of heat and a very bright light. The Firmament is emitting energy. This will have a cooling affect on earth and eventually earth will be too cold to emit light. But earth will still be worm enough to be emitting heated energies into the waters of heaven (space).

Now remember, the waters of heaven is not H2O, it is the space which earth is floating in.

Since earth is emitting heated energies (compressed energies) they too will expand (change), and the result of this expansion is that the energies become cooler (colder). The heated energies will create a differential compare to the energies in space.

I am going to illustrate this with a new image. Observe that I am using the same image as on top of this page.


The heated energy is emitted from earth. This can also be explained like Moses did.

“And divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so”. The water is energy, Remember.

“And God called the firmament Heaven”????

I don’t know if I am going to argue this. But I think Moses did a blunder by saying that God called the firmament for heaven. In the old days people thought that space/heaven was a solid. We know it’s not today. Moses should have said, God called the waters for heaven. My image above also proves it. Remember what God said earlier!

"Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters".

Well God has just separated more water from the waters.

“And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so”.

Well this is what will happen when earth is emitting heated energies. The heated energies will cool down as they are expanding out into space. And some of this energy will fall down as it is being cooled down.

This is as far as I have come. I am not sure if I know how to explain how God created Adam and Eve. But I might give it a try later. I probably would have to read a lot about evolution to get a understanding of how God really did it.




posted on Apr, 30 2010 @ 01:24 PM
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you made a great explanation, but im a christian and i have to defend what this is. so dont be angered. See first the sky was called heaven, thats why in the bible they said look towards the heavens. and when he divides heaven and the firment he splits the sky from the ground giving it shape. and when he splits the waters he splits them with earth meaning he creates land to seperate the waters on earth now. i get what you are saying about God being energy and how things were, but know where in the bible does it say that heaven is a solid. My science teacher tried explaining the same thing to the class until i stumped him and he shut up. I love hearing peoples opions on the subject i dont do it to argue but do it to show what i know. See i have always questioned how God was there. and I kept getting the same answere he has always been. Now see this is where people argue with me about him being energy and it was caused by the big bang. Well in all honesty there may have been a big bang, but what could have done it. Nothing was there to do it. God created everything, even energy. God himself did say he was energy but he was the only energy there was. Now lets say that the big bang theory is true and energy did gather and explode. Well the problem with that is where did the energy come from and two why was there only energy in this one spot, wouldnt there be energy everywhere if it was there also.
so where did energy come from, well only one explanation God. Well we will never know as long as we live how he got there, but when i die and go to heaven im asking him all my questions so they will be answered. And earlier when i said that the bible never said it was solid my mistake . Of course you have the streets of gold the pearly gates and the crystal ocean well think why would god put heaven around where man is. I believe earth is hell and we are the demons that inhabit it. Until we see the way of God.



posted on Apr, 30 2010 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by sifaytix
 





but know where in the bible does it say that heaven is a solid
.

8. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Firmament is something that is solid.

The Firmament is the usual English translation of the Hebrew "raqiya`" (pronounced /raki'ja/ in English) meaning an extended solid surface or dome

en.wikipedia.org...

I also explained why Moses must have quoted God wrong on this.


PS. I am also trying to support creation by doing this. I am doing this to give people a different perspective of what Genesis chapter one is saying.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Apr, 30 2010 @ 01:56 PM
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Interesting post and explanation.

I have just always wondered about this though: Gen: 1:2 the latter of the verse “and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The first question what is the Spirit of God?

Second would be, why does the Spirit of God “Move upon the Face(surface?) of the waters.

Doesn’t that imply that there was water(s) and darkness? I don’t know it’s a question I havent figured out yet.

Edit: I guess after reading the first verse, it is stated that God created the heavens and the earth, so the waters the Spirit of God moved upon was the waters of earth, in which God created.

[edit on 30-4-2010 by Sippy Cup]



posted on Apr, 30 2010 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by Sippy Cup
Interesting post and explanation.

I have just always wondered about this though: Gen: 1:2 the latter of the verse “and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The first question what is the Spirit of God?

Second would be, why does the Spirit of God “Move upon the Face(surface?) of the waters.

Doesn’t that imply that there was water(s) and darkness? I don’t know it’s a question I havent figured out yet.

Edit: I guess after reading the first verse, it is stated that God created the heavens and the earth, so the waters the Spirit of God moved upon was the waters of earth, in which God created.

[edit on 30-4-2010 by Sippy Cup]


The way i read Genesis chapter one is that God did not really create anything until he said: Let there be light.

Let there be light is Gods first command.

When God said let there be light. Light would be the cause, from the compression creating heaven and earth. Heaven and earth was created first. But the light would be the first sign.





[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Apr, 30 2010 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by spy66
 


Well if you have understood that the Bibles\Scripts the last 74 000 years actually is a Galactic notebook:=u have done ure research
Solar notebook made into personifications



posted on Apr, 30 2010 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by Sippy Cup
Interesting post and explanation.

I have just always wondered about this though: Gen: 1:2 the latter of the verse “and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The first question what is the Spirit of God?

Second would be, why does the Spirit of God “Move upon the Face(surface?) of the waters.

Doesn’t that imply that there was water(s) and darkness? I don’t know it’s a question I havent figured out yet.

Edit: I guess after reading the first verse, it is stated that God created the heavens and the earth, so the waters the Spirit of God moved upon was the waters of earth, in which God created.

[edit on 30-4-2010 by Sippy Cup]


Before God created heaven and the earth. There could only have been God. And nothing else.

Now, if God is defined as being infinite and pure energy. God can't move upon the waters of the deep. I would assume this is rather implying that God is having a thought. A thought about creating heaven and earth and so on. And then he does it by saying: Let there be light.



posted on Apr, 30 2010 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by Archirvion
reply to post by spy66
 


Well if you have understood that the Bibles\Scripts the last 74 000 years actually is a Galactic notebook:=u have done ure research
Solar notebook made into personifications


If Moses had lived to day i bet he would have written Genesis a lot like the way i have done it.

I actually did the theory of existence before i read Genesis and thought that this is actually what Genesis chapter one is saying.



posted on Apr, 30 2010 @ 10:54 PM
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Wonderful thread and great explanation! I'm not sure if you are explaining the whole sentence of Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth," or if you are explaining what happened in the "beginning". I says this because the word heaven is plural in Hebrew. This means there are three heavens mentioned in the Bible. I'm sure you are aware of these so I won't explain them unless someone wants that explained.

Great job though, S&F!



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by novastrike81
Wonderful thread and great explanation! I'm not sure if you are explaining the whole sentence of Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth," or if you are explaining what happened in the "beginning". I says this because the word heaven is plural in Hebrew. This means there are three heavens mentioned in the Bible. I'm sure you are aware of these so I won't explain them unless someone wants that explained.

Great job though, S&F!


Thank you for taking your time to read my view on Genesis chapter one.

What i wanted to do with this post, was to try and explain how God created heaven and earth. But i wanted to explain it more scientifically from how i understand the verses that i read.

I did get a bit confused when Moses said that God called the firmament for heaven in verse 8.


8. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.


But i got it explained by doing some research. In the old days scholars thought that space/heaven was solid.

When i took a closer look at the verses i could see that Moses made a mistake by saying this. Verse 2 explains what the waters represent. And what heaven must be.


2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


Verse 6 explains how God put the firmament in the midst of the waters.


6. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.


If i understand this right Earth is not heaven. Because God is creating heaven and earth. Earth must be the firmament. Heaven must the be the waters that separate waters from the waters.

If verse two is correct then the waters that separate the waters in verse 6 must be emitted energy from the firmament.

God did not create heaven and earth before he said: Let there be light.

God created heaven and earth when he said: Let there be light.

God initiated the creation of heaven and earth when: The Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. This movement created light.

If i understand this correct there are only two heavens. The one explained in verse 2. And the one explained in verse 6.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by novastrike81
Wonderful thread and great explanation! I'm not sure if you are explaining the whole sentence of Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth," or if you are explaining what happened in the "beginning". I says this because the word heaven is plural in Hebrew. This means there are three heavens mentioned in the Bible. I'm sure you are aware of these so I won't explain them unless someone wants that explained.

Great job though, S&F!


Thank you for taking your time to read my view on Genesis chapter one.

What i wanted to do with this post, was to try and explain how God created heaven and earth. But i wanted to explain it more scientifically from how i understand the verses that i read.

I did get a bit confused when Moses said that God called the firmament for heaven in verse 8.


8. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.


But i got it explained by doing some research. In the old days scholars thought that space/heaven was solid.

When i took a closer look at the verses i could see that Moses made a mistake by saying this. Verse 2 explains what the waters represent. And what heaven must be.


2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


Verse 6 explains how God put the firmament in the midst of the waters.


6. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.


If i understand this right Earth is not heaven. Because God is creating heaven and earth. Earth must be the firmament. Heaven must the be the waters that separate waters from the waters.

If verse two is correct then the waters that separate the waters in verse 6 must be emitted energy from the firmament.

God did not create heaven and earth before he said: Let there be light.

God created heaven and earth when he said: Let there be light.

God initiated the creation of heaven and earth when: The Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. This movement created light.

If i understand this correct there are only two heavens. The one explained in verse 2. And the one explained in verse 6.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]


You are right in your knowledge that Earth itself is NOT heaven even though it's part of the description I'm not sure. I guess if the sky is part of heaven you can put the planet as so too. The three heavens mentioned in the Bible roughly translates into:

The Sky (first heaven): Daniel 4:12 - The leaves thereof were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all: the beasts of the field had shadow under it, and the fowls of the heaven dwelt in the boughs thereof, and all flesh was fed of it.

The Sun, moons, and stars (second heaven): Pslam 19:1 - The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Heaven - the home of angels, departed saints, and the saved (third heaven): 2 Corinthians 12:2 - I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Everything else seems to fit together though. Some people use vibration for his movement and energy force to create all that is known. Whatever helps to explain it though I think it's all the same thing.


[edit on 1-5-2010 by novastrike81]

[edit on 1-5-2010 by novastrike81]



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 


That's all nice and dandy. But if you read what the verse is saying. God confirms the difference between a firmament and waters.

Ill take Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament showeth his handiwork.

What this verse is saying is that The firmament is shoving its glory. Or better yet. The waters/heaven create (depth) so we can observe the glory displayed by the firmament in heaven.

Heaven, the waters create a distance between the firmaments here on earth and between everything else above the earth. The moon for instance is a firmament. And so is the sun. The waters of heaven separates each firmament. On earth and above earth in heaven.

God did say:

Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

So in fact, God is really not given a exact number of heavens. He just Cal's them for waters.





[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by novastrike81
 


That's all nice and dandy. But if you read what the verse is saying. God confirms the difference between a firmament and waters.

Ill take Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament showeth his handiwork.

What this verse is saying is that The firmament is shoving its glory. Or better yet. The waters/heaven create (depth) so we can observe the glory displayed by the firmament in heaven.

Heaven, the waters create a distance between the firmaments here on earth and between everything else above the earth.

God did say:

Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

So in fact, God is really not given a exact number of heavens. He just Cal's them for waters.



That's all nice and dandy too but unless you have a better way of explaining

2 Corinthians 12:2 - I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.


So unless you're contradicting the Bible which it doesn't or you're taking the Bible out of it's original context which is also wrong according to the Bible.

From Revelation 22:18-19 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book."

I don't want to be the one calling God a liar. If it says third heaven it's obvious there are three heavens, not two. Unless you got a scripture saying there is only two heavens, and not your own personal interpretation, then you just made every atheist happy by proving contradiction to the Bible.

[edit on 1-5-2010 by novastrike81]



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by novastrike81
 


That's all nice and dandy. But if you read what the verse is saying. God confirms the difference between a firmament and waters.

Ill take Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament showeth his handiwork.

What this verse is saying is that The firmament is shoving its glory. Or better yet. The waters/heaven create (depth) so we can observe the glory displayed by the firmament in heaven.

Heaven, the waters create a distance between the firmaments here on earth and between everything else above the earth.

God did say:

Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

So in fact, God is really not given a exact number of heavens. He just Cal's them for waters.



That's all nice and dandy too but unless you have a better way of explaining

2 Corinthians 12:2 - I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.


So unless you're contradicting the Bible which it doesn't or you're taking the Bible out of it's original context which is also wrong according to the Bible.

From Revelation 22:18-19 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book."


Well to be honest i also think that Moses misquoted what God said in verse 8.

Verse 8: And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Because of what God is saying in verse 2 and 6.

Verse 2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Verse 6: And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

Can you explain it to me if i am misquoting something that is wrong?

Verse 8 contradicts what God is explaining in verse 2 and 6.

Keep in mind that God is creating heaven and earth.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by spy66
Well to be honest i also think that Moses misquoted what God said in verse 8.

Verse 8: And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Because of what God is saying in verse 2 and 6.

Verse 2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Verse 6: And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

Can you explain it to me if i am misquoting something that is wrong?

Verse 8 contradicts what God is explaining in verse 2 and 6.

Keep in mind that God is creating heaven and earth.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]


Yes, I am keeping that in mind. What you are thinking of as misunderstanding by Moses' part is in fact none at all. I think it's a misinterpretation in what is being read and understood by the reader.

What Moses is saying in verse 6-8 is that there was separation between land water and atmospheric water. So it's a division of the oceans, rivers, lakes, etc and the atmosphere itself; the invisible translucent vapors. It didn't rain until the Flood but that doesn't keep clouds from being up there.

I think what you're seeing in verse 2 is just the formation of the 3 basic forces which I think you're trying to illustrate in your drawings. Those forces are:
1. gravitational - the force between two objects.
2. electro-magnetic - the force between the electron and nucleus of an atom.
3. nuclear - the force between the proton and the neutron within an atom.

I think you're doing a great job of presenting it in lamens terms. Then you hit verse 6 and see a contradiction which in fact is just the seperation of the first heaven on Earth. Would you agree that Earth is somewhat heavenly if you step back and look at it and not just a random act of chance?

[edit on 1-5-2010 by novastrike81]

[edit on 1-5-2010 by novastrike81]

[edit on 1-5-2010 by novastrike81]



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by spy66
Well to be honest i also think that Moses misquoted what God said in verse 8.

Verse 8: And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Because of what God is saying in verse 2 and 6.

Verse 2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Verse 6: And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

Can you explain it to me if i am misquoting something that is wrong?

Verse 8 contradicts what God is explaining in verse 2 and 6.

Keep in mind that God is creating heaven and earth.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]


Yes, I am keeping that in mind. What you are thinking of as misunderstanding by Moses' part is in fact none at all. I think it's a misinterpretation in what is being read and understood by the reader.

What Moses is saying in verse 6-8 is that there was separation between land water and atmospheric water. So it's a division of the oceans, rivers, lakes, etc and the atmosphere itself; the invisible translucent vapors. It didn't rain until the Flood but that doesn't keep clouds from being up there.

I think what you're seeing in verse 2 is just the formation of the earth itself with 3 basic forces which I think you're trying to illustrate in your drawings. Those forces are:
1. gravitational - the force between two objects.
2. electro-magnetic - the force between the electron and nucleus of an atom.
3. nuclear - the force between the proton and the neutron within an atom.

I think you're doing a great job of presenting it in lamens terms. Then you hit verse 6 and see a contradiction which in fact is just the seperation of the first heaven on Earth. Would you agree that Earth is somewhat heavenly if you step back and look at it and not just a random act of chance?

[edit on 1-5-2010 by novastrike81]

[edit on 1-5-2010 by novastrike81]


Well i can tell you for a fact that he is not. Because of verse 2.

Verse 2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

There is no heaven or earth. because God hasn't created it yet.

In verse 2. God is explaining what nothingness is. And its without form and void. Nothing but space/pure energy/waters. God is NOT talking about H2O on top of the earth. At all.

I would rather say that you have been misinformed. By your teacher.

Heaven and earth was created when God said: Let there be light.

PS. God is using earth as a explanation for the firmament. Meaning all the heavenly bodies. The bodies that float within the midst of the waters that separates the waters from the waters.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by spy66
Well i can tell you for a fact that he is not. Because of verse 2.

Verse 2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

There is no heaven or earth. because God hasn't created it yet.

In verse 2. God is explaining what nothingness is. And its without form and void. Nothing but space/pure energy/waters. God is NOT talking about H2O on top of the earth. At all.

I would rather say that you have been misinformed. By your teacher


I think you read one paragraph and interpreted it as the other. So just read again what I wrote and you'll see I'm AGREEING with you. In verse 6 he is talking about the separation of the ground water and the atmosphere and in verse 2 is the forces in which we apply things; gravity, electro-magnetic, and nuclear. Verse 2 isn't talking about the formation of anything other then forces. Gravity, electro-magnetic, and nuclear are all forces of energy being described in verse 2 as you illustrated. Please read what I'm saying and don't jump to conclusions.

Also notice is says heaven and earth. When we say Earth we are referring to the planet itself. Here it is referring to earth as a sphere not in it's complete form; lifeless. So it's safe to say its void of anything because God didn't place anything on the planet at this time. He just created matter, energy, space, and the time framework.

Also was should be translated as became. Some differences in words can give different meanings. It's important to understand the original meanings to conclude what is really being said.

The heavenly bodies you speak of weren't created until the 4th Day and you are only referring to the first 8 verses of the Bible. The 4th day isn't until verse 14. So to say the heavenly bodies were created on Day One shows you are misinformed of the actual scripture.

Also it says in verse 1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." That's cut and dry. To say the heaven and earth weren't created in the first verse is ignorance and contradictory to your statement of

There is no heaven or earth. because God hasn't created it yet.
So again I say, either you are contradicting yourself or the Bible is contradicting itself.

Lastly and to secure my argument it CLEARLY says in verses 3-5:

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.


With that alone it says that the light was to signify the day and the night; evening and morning. How does that have anything to do with creating the heavens. Please stop destroying the word of God. If you don't understand please say so but to say I'm wrong when the scripture clearly says what it is, is just wrong. I'm just trying to help.


[edit on 1-5-2010 by novastrike81]



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by spy66
Well i can tell you for a fact that he is not. Because of verse 2.

Verse 2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

There is no heaven or earth. because God hasn't created it yet.

In verse 2. God is explaining what nothingness is. And its without form and void. Nothing but space/pure energy/waters. God is NOT talking about H2O on top of the earth. At all.

I would rather say that you have been misinformed. By your teacher


I think you read one paragraph and interpreted it as the other. So just read again what I wrote and you'll see I'm AGREEING with you. In verse 6 he is talking about the separation of the ground water and the atmosphere and in verse 2 is the forces in which we apply things; gravity, electro-magnetic, and nuclear. Verse 2 isn't talking about the formation of anything other then forces. Gravity, electro-magnetic, and nuclear are all forces of energy being described in verse 2 as you illustrated. Please read what I'm saying and don't jump to conclusions.

[edit on 1-5-2010 by novastrike81]

[edit on 1-5-2010 by novastrike81]


Well i don't agree with you. Because you are saying that God is talking about the separation of ground water from the atmosphere in verse 6.

God can't be separating ground water from our atmosphere in this verse 6.

Because God has just separated the Light from darkness. In verse 4.

God is about to explain where heaven and earth is about to be located in the midst of the waters. In verse 6.

Verse 6.
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

So explained.

1. First God explains what nothingness is. Verse 2.

2. Gods spirit moves upon the face of the waters. verse 2.

3. God said: Let there be light verse ops 3. Light is created from Gods spirit moving upon the face of the waters.

4. verse 6. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. Here God explains were earth (firmament) will be located. In the midst of the waters.

And than God say: Let it (The firmament) divide the waters from the waters. What God means here is that the firmaments emitted energy is separating pure energy from finite energies.

Remember the firmament must be very hot as a result of Gods creation. You know we have light and everything. The light has got to have explanation that fits in to the creation. Light is emitted energy from finite matter under pressure.

You cant just read the chapter and think ehmm, God must be talking about earth. Because at the very top of the page it says. In the beginning God created heaven and earth.

Heaven and earth is what God is creating. But earth is not the only firmament god created. He created every heavenly body when he said: Let there be light. God goes in details about earth after he has created heaven and earth (The firmament).

In verse 7 God moves on to talk about how he created the atmosphere.

Because verse 9. supports it.

If you like i can explain it.





[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by spy66
Well i can tell you for a fact that he is not. Because of verse 2.

Verse 2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

There is no heaven or earth. because God hasn't created it yet.

In verse 2. God is explaining what nothingness is. And its without form and void. Nothing but space/pure energy/waters. God is NOT talking about H2O on top of the earth. At all.

I would rather say that you have been misinformed. By your teacher


I think you read one paragraph and interpreted it as the other. So just read again what I wrote and you'll see I'm AGREEING with you. In verse 6 he is talking about the separation of the ground water and the atmosphere and in verse 2 is the forces in which we apply things; gravity, electro-magnetic, and nuclear. Verse 2 isn't talking about the formation of anything other then forces. Gravity, electro-magnetic, and nuclear are all forces of energy being described in verse 2 as you illustrated. Please read what I'm saying and don't jump to conclusions.

[edit on 1-5-2010 by novastrike81]

[edit on 1-5-2010 by novastrike81]


Well i don't agree with you. Because you are saying that God is talking about the separation of ground water from the atmosphere in verse 6.

God can't be separating ground water from our atmosphere in this verse 6.

Because God has just separated the Light from darkness. In verse 4.

God is about to explain where heaven and earth is about to be located in the midst of the waters. In verse 6.

Verse 6.
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.


You are letting one word confuse the living crap out of you.

I'll break this down even further for you: Genesis 1:1-2

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
It's simple and precise. Before that there was nothing you are right but we start with CREATION. Is it so hard to think that God can't create the pure energies: gravity, electro-magnetic, nuclear, etc. forces plus the heaven and earth simultaneously? Void means lifeless, it doesn't have to mean empty. You think darkness means nothing when in fact it means the absence of light and can sometimes mean a good thing which in this case it does. Also all the pure energies and forces were made. Nowhere does it speak of celestial bodies like planets and stars.

Next we see verse (3-5): Genesis 3-5

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
End of DAY ONE. That's where you should stop but you bring in Day 2 to explain what you think waters mean but you are over simplifying it. So to explain this we'll look at verses 6-8.

Genesis 6-8:

6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Look at verse 7. This is the separation of ground water from atmospheric water; the invisible translucent vapor. The firmament in this case is the SKY; the first heaven as illustrated in verse 8.

Please don't start with verse 9 because that's when plant life comes into play which is completely irrelevant to your OP



[edit on 1-5-2010 by novastrike81]



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