Young Aussie genius whipping NASA in Moon Hoax Debate!

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


Regarding the photograph of the LM at the NASM in Washington, D.C.:

You did not provide a source for the image. Contrary to ATS rules. You also said

That's why they have a Keepout Zone. And fake LEM's at the National Air & Space Museum.

Now, firstly.....this "Keepout Zone" Is that the railing around the display in the museum? Is this somehow surprising, that a museum would not want every patron climbing up and into every display they have on view?

Secondly, the LM on display is not "fake". While it is certainly feasible that many museums will use reproductions or replicas in their displays, the one in the NASM was actually built at the Grumman factory on Long Island, NY. It was the number 2 built, but simply was not flown on a mission. So, other than the expensive internal components, such as avionics, it is real:

A Field Guide to American Spacecraft: Lunar Modules

2| NOT USED| National Air and Space Museum, Washington D.C.| In Lunar Diorama representing Apollo 11

Thirdly, back to that image....and the most ridiculous orange word "Foo" and the orange arrows pointing at the signs over the glass doors in the background.

Really? Is that what an "argument" has become, at this point? How truly ....I'm at a loss for words......

For anyone who has never been to the NASM....those doors lead out to the Food Court.

Food. Get it??

NASM Floor Plan

On the FIRST Floor. The LM is displayed in space 112. Just out those doors, the "Wright Place Food Court".


(Makes one wonder just who altered the image to block out the rest of the letters??)

Gee, don't want to point fingers so......the actual source of that image should be able to determine who was the culprit........

Who do they think they're FOOling??

reply to post by FoosM


What nonsense is this now??

Why are the astronauts so small in comparison to the average person?

Resorting to actually inferring......what this time? Lying? About the size of the mannequins used to represent the Astronauts??

There are words for this.....which everyone knows, but I will not type................

(Pssst. Buzz Aldrin is 5' 10" tall. Neil Armstrong is an inch taller)................

Originally posted by ProudBird

(Pssst. Buzz Aldrin is 5' 10" tall. Neil Armstrong is an inch taller)................

They wore helmets and boots.

reply to post by mockrock


@wbstra - thanks for giving the transcript of this "confession".

@ mockrock - so this is your proof that we did not land on the moon? In context, Neil Armstrong is simply stating that we have begun the exploration, IE, we have sent men to the moon. Now it is up to you to continue this endeavor. Quit mining for old debunked material and show some real proof to your claims.

reply to post by FoosM


Sadly for you, and another failed attempt at "proving" Apollo is somehow "faked"......

They wore helmets and boots.

.....your attempts are getting ever more feeble. Laughable, actually.

The two suits displayed along with the LM (build #2, not the "Eagle", obviously) are the SAME suits worn by Armstrong and Aldrin. The PLSS is a mock-up of course:

www.nasm.si.edu...

APOLLO 11 SPACE SUITS
These are the suits worn by Armstrong and Aldrin during the first human exploration of the Moon. The suits are made of a white, non-flammable material called beta cloth, a teflon-coated fiberglass. Armstrong and Aldrin wore the gloves and helmets displayed here during lunar exploration. The astronauts' overshoes (worn only on the Moon) and portable life-support systems were left on the lunar surface to reduce launch weight. These suits were individually tailored for Armstrong and Aldrin and were manufactured by ILC Industries, Inc.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

 

Are you suggesting that James P. Dawson, Chief of the Engineering and Operations Branch of the Lunar and Earth Sciences Division at the Manned Spacecraft Center from 1965 to 1969, would sell his talent & abilities for money??? How dare you discredit a NASA scientist!

I know that people with strong religious beliefs, such as yourself, have a difficult time understanding how more objective people view the world. Your religion preaches that Richard Nixon is the devil, so you are blind to the fact that he ended the war in Viet Nam and established the Environmental Protection Agency. Anyone who is not blinded by the blinkers of religion can see that NASA is an organisation composed of human beings. Can human beings be corrupted? Yes. Can human beings make mistakes? Yes. Do human beings sometimes believe foolish things? Of course. Dawson eventually came to hold some rather extreme religious views, like Ralph Rene. This makes certain aspects of his post-NASA research unreliable.

Are you really suggesting that Dr. Dawson was operating outside his mandate by recording LandSat data onto Apollo telemetry tapes???????

No, I was just messing with your head. Dawson (his "doctorate" is in Christian Apologetics) used the LandSat data to prospect for oil after he left NASA, so he had nothing to do with the "missing tapes." What he doesn't say, and the reason why he asked the interviewer to turn off the tape recorder at one point, is that he probably started prospecting for oil while he was still at NASA. NASA employees aren't allowed to use government resources for their own profit, which is why he left for the private sector.

So yes, Dawson is not a very reliable source. I don't have a problem with that. Do you?

That's correct. "Missing" is the only correct way to refer to Accession #69A4099. The tapes were never received by Goddard. I'm glad you finally got that straight.

But I never referred to Richard Nixon as the devil. You are just making that up.

If you will discount James P Dawson's credibility because of his religious beliefs then it is fair game to discount Apollo astronaut credibility for having religious beliefs, too. Do you also include certain political beliefs in your discount?

What about certain political beliefs like Frank Borman's rabid anti-Communism or Nixon's extreme brand of patriotism or Harrison Schmitt's career as an "economic geologist" and his right-wing anti-environmentalism? Are these credible beliefs? They are all beliefs that can be taken to in-credible extremes.

This is like believing that Apollo landed on the Moon 6 times in a span of 3.5 years. It's in-credible. The Apollo Moon Rocks have been debunked. Missing telemetry tapes are confirmation of a cover up. Radiation in space means that the faking started with Apollo 8, Christmas, the Book of Genesis...

"In the beginning God..." First thing to happen with Apollo 8 is to hypnotize the TV audience with religious mythology....

After launching on December 21, 1968, Apollo 8 took three days to travel to the Moon. It orbited ten times over the course of 20 hours, during which the crew made a Christmas Eve television broadcast in which they read the first 10 verses from the Book of Genesis. At the time, the broadcast was the most watched TV program ever. Source en.wikipedia.org...

The effect of Apollo 8 can be summed up by a telegram from a stranger, received by Borman after the mission, that simply stated, "Thank you Apollo 8. You saved 1968."

Chaikin, Andrew (1994). A Man On The Moon: The Voyages of the Apollo Astronauts. Viking. p. 134. ISBN 0-670-81446-6.

Isn't it a convenient piece of political propaganda? Was this a telegram from God, Richard Nixon or Frank Shakespeare?

While at the same time LBJ and Nixon's America were assassinating foreign leaders, funding military dictatorships, invading countries and killing civilians... the myth is told to the war weary world... Apollo.

40 years after we have NASA Keepout Zones on the Moon to protect, what they call the Heritage sites, and NASA is retreating from manned space flight? Some people believe the weirdest things!

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

That's correct. "Missing" is the only correct way to refer to Accession #69A4099. The tapes were never received by Goddard. I'm glad you finally got that straight.

Now you are speculating. In fact, no-one at Goddard admits to receiving the tapes, as that would implicate them as being part of the team that erased them. The committee that investigated the situation came to a very sound conclusion based on all the evidence. I suggest you read the entire report:

www.hq.nasa.gov...

But I never referred to Richard Nixon as the devil. You are just making that up.

Sorry, but its a reasonable inference based on your ritualized language. See below.

If you will discount James P Dawson's credibility because of his religious beliefs then it is fair game to discount Apollo astronaut credibility for having religious beliefs, too. Do you also include certain political beliefs in your discount?

I do not discount Dawson's credibility because of his religious beliefs. I discount certain of his conclusions because his religious beliefs bias his objectivity. Yes, certainly, political beliefs can also cause people to lack objectivity; it can even cause them to lie. One needs to be able to discern bias.

What about certain political beliefs like Frank Borman' rabid anti-Communism or Nixon's extreme brand of patriotism or Harrison Schmitt's career as an "economic geologist" and his right-wing anti-environmentalism? Are these credible beliefs? They are all beliefs that can be taken to in-credible extremes.

The only source we have for Borman's "rabid anti-communism" is you. It is apparently part of your credo. Anti-communist sentiment was not unusual in an era that saw the Soviet Union enslaving one European nation after another. Harrison Schmitt's opinions on sustainable energy would not in any way prejudice his observations as a geologist on the Moon. As for Nixon, see above.

This is like believing that Apollo landed on the Moon 6 times in a span of 3.5 years. It's in-credible. The Apollo Moon Rocks have been debunked.

No, they have not. A man whose personal belief dictates that the Earth and Moon must be less than 10,000 years old has expressed the opinion that the Moon Rocks must be less than 10,000 years old. That was the whole point.

Missing telemetry tapes are confirmation of a cover up.

"Missing tapes" are at best suggestive of a cover-up, not confirmation. Speaking of "missing tapes," your boy Dick Nixon taped everything he did in the Oval Office compulsively, including things he knew to be illegal. Why don't you get yourself down to the Nixon Library and find the tape where he orders NASA to fake the Moon landings. I would accept that as proof.

Radiation in space means that the faking started with Apollo 8, Christmas, the Book of Genesis...

The radiation is space has been shown to be acceptable using Jarrah's own figures. There you go on again about Genesis. What is it about poetry in space that gets you so worked up?

Originally posted by FoosM
Why are the astronauts so small in comparison to the average person?

The mannequins look just fine and to scale.

Originally posted by jra

Originally posted by FoosM
Why are the astronauts so small in comparison to the average person?

The mannequins look just fine and to scale.

How do you figure?
If I had posted that image, you guys would ask me the same thing.

Originally posted by Gibborium
reply to post by mockrock

 

@wbstra - thanks for giving the transcript of this "confession".

@ mockrock - so this is your proof that we did not land on the moon? In context, Neil Armstrong is simply stating that we have begun the exploration, IE, we have sent men to the moon. Now it is up to you to continue this endeavor. Quit mining for old debunked material and show some real proof to your claims.

You are welcome.....

I do like telling people about this mother of all fakeries.....I like to inform people well :-)

reply to post by FoosM


The term is called Dwindling size perception. It is when like objects seem to be a different size because of their placement in a 2D image. Here is a good link Dwindling Size Perception.

Here is my dog Tank compared to my thumb which is closer to the camera than Tank is. Tank weighs 80 pounds and is 18 inches tall and 37 inches long from the tip of his nose to the end of his non existent tail. My thumb is 4 inches long from the end to the 3rd joint.



My dog is not smaller than my thumb. The mannequins are not smaller in the pictures in question.

reply to post by Gibborium

The term is called Dwindling size perception.

Good luck explaining how things like perspective work. That way madness lies.

Originally posted by Gibborium
reply to post by FoosM

 

The term is called Dwindling size perception.

My dog is not smaller than my thumb. The mannequins are not smaller in the pictures in question.

What does that have to do with the photos I posted?
I purposely choose photos to minimize that effect.
JRA choose one where that effect was enhanced.

And how can you determine the mannequins are true representations of the astronauts' height
based upon "dwindling size perception"?

How about that UV camera model:

how tall is that?

reply to post by FoosM


Did you just gloss over my post, up above??

And how can you determine the mannequins are true representations of the astronauts' height
based upon "dwindling size perception"?

Here is the pertinent info, again:

The two suits displayed along with the LM (build #2, not the "Eagle", obviously) are the same suits worn by Armstrong and Aldrin. The PLSS is a mock-up of course:

www.nasm.si.edu...

APOLLO 11 SPACE SUITS
These are the suits worn by Armstrong and Aldrin during the first human exploration of the Moon. The suits are made of a white, non-flammable material called beta cloth, a teflon-coated fiberglass. Armstrong and Aldrin wore the gloves and helmets displayed here during lunar exploration. The astronauts' overshoes (worn only on the Moon) and portable life-support systems were left on the lunar surface to reduce launch weight. These suits were individually tailored for Armstrong and Aldrin and were manufactured by ILC Industries, Inc.

reply to post by FoosM

How about that UV camera model:

I thought you were going to use its presence in the Apollo 11 display at NASM to shout "Fake!" because one was not carried on that mission??

But, the dimensions of the Far UV Camera/Spectrograph when it was packed were 1 meter x 0.5 x 0.5 meter.

Obviously, the legs supporting it were not attached in storage, to make the unit compact enough to fit in the MESA.

Experiment: Far UV Camera/Spectrograph


But, your "Intent" with the "loaded question" has probably got something to do with the listing in the NASM website (where you likely found that photograph):

Dimensions:
Overall: 1 ft. 6 in. tall x 1 ft. 4 in. wide x 2 ft. 5 in. deep (45.7 x 40.6 x 73.7cm)

www.nasm.si.edu...

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by FoosM

 

How about that UV camera model:

But, the dimensions of the Far UV Camera/Spectrograph when it was packed were 1 meter x 0.5 x 0.5 meter.

But, your "Intent" with the "loaded question" has probably got something to do with the listing in the NASM website (where you likely found that photograph):

Dimensions:
Overall: 1 ft. 6 in. tall x 1 ft. 4 in. wide x 2 ft. 5 in. deep (45.7 x 40.6 x 73.7cm)

www.nasm.si.edu...

Hmm..... really?
So one is 1 foot six inches tall, the other is about 3 feet tall.
Please explain how this is possible, seeing how they should be both the same dimensions, right?

reply to post by FoosM


Are you doing this on purpose? Because, most other people have no trouble in comprehension.

So one is 1 foot six inches tall, the other is about 3 feet tall.

Or, was I not emphatic enough? (Sometimes without inflection, in one's writing, nuances can be overlooked. "Shouting" is frowned upon, so maybe emphasis is needed?)

Read it again. Pay attention to each word, go slowly if need be so it will sink in.

Also, just use reason, and look at the darn thing! (Hint....when packed, it was not "set-up" as you see...the legs are detachable!)

reply to post by ProudBird


Not actually implying anything except "NASA was dishonest". In the absence of actual evidence, all you can do is cast doubt on the character of the opposing council's witnesses.