Young Aussie genius whipping NASA in Moon Hoax Debate!

reply to post by mockrock



About those lunar lander feet?

Can anyone solve this ?

'Clingy' dust decides not to cling...

Originally posted by mockrock

Originally posted by seabhac-rua

Originally posted by mockrock

Originally posted by seabhac-rua
reply to post by mockrock

 

BS.

Surprising and unexpected things happen all the time. Science is always stumbling upon unforeseen actualities.

If the moon landings were real what? Read a history book.

The American Dream has nothing to do with this thread. Open your eyes.

edit on 11-11-2011 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)

History is written by the victors..

So the Soviets just looked on and said "it was all a hoax.....so what....pass the vodka"?

Both sides had something to hide.. and were trapped into a mutual deterrent. By the time the Soviets realized, the US had faked the mission, the U.S had gained damaging info on the Soviet missions. This being that the Soviets were the first nation to lose a man in space, so both had information on the other which trapped them into a nondisclosure agreement.

Pure speculation....correction...fantasy. Plenty of that on this thread.

Originally posted by mockrock
reply to post by mockrock

 

About those lunar lander feet?

Can anyone solve this ?

'Clingy' dust decides not to cling...

From the photographs no dust appears to have settled on the lander feet.......WOW HOLY S**T
Gimme a break.

Originally posted by seabhac-rua

Originally posted by mockrock
reply to post by mockrock

 

About those lunar lander feet?

Can anyone solve this ?

'Clingy' dust decides not to cling...

From the photographs no dust appears to have settled on the lander feet.......WOW HOLY S**T
Gimme a break.

But as already pointed out this is not possible.. this one fact means the Lunar landings were faked. You see the pro debunkers have left the building because they simply cannot provide an answer.

Prove to me it is not possible. You make the claim now man up.

Originally posted by PsykoOps
Prove to me it is not possible. You make the claim now man up.

o.k here you go .. science.nasa.gov...

Read the article, this contradicts the argument that the moon dust was heavy.. What has manning up got to to do with anything..? that is a sexist notion.

Look at the upward fold of the lander feet, looks almost custom made to collect dust.. yet there is none.

www.geschichteinchronologie.ch... .jpg

Does not say anything about glinging to the lander feet there. Try again? Give up?

Originally posted by PsykoOps
Does not say anything about glinging to the lander feet there. Try again? Give up?

.. if you are not wise enough to make the connection with that information, I am never going to be able to debate with you dear boy.

reply to post by mockrock


You were guided to the answers that reside within this thread already, in a previous post reference.

The total comprehension that is the key to grasping the concept of the Lunar regolith is also available in many other places, besides ATS.

Your "question" is, at least, tangentially connected to the Aussie "boy wonder" [cough, cough] since he did (terribly, and completely wrongly) attempt to make similar claims as you are, here and now.

Do try to learn a bit more, though.....before re-hashing old news. Isn't there an "imminent threat" out there from the next asteroid and other disconnected activities here on Earth to go all "Chicken Little" over, and try to connect in another ATS "doomsday" thread???


Will this video help??




Now......during the landing, in case you still don't understand, since there is no air on the Moon (it is a vacuum) the loose debris cannot "billow" as it does here on Earth....THAT is what you are accustomed to seeing, and you must think differently, to account for the alien environment of the Moon.

The loose bits, even very fine bits that we may term "dust", when they were affected by the descent engine's exhaust gases moved laterally....horizontally.....and, absent the atmosphere, could not "float" above the surface as you see here on Earth.

Finally, there were very fine particles everywhere, even in the pictures that are used to "prove" no "dust"....just as your coffee table might be dusty....or the pictures hanging on your wall (remember, on Earth, dust can "float" in the air.....not so, on the Moon, in the vacuum. It must be moved in some way, by an external force of some kind).

So, your furniture and other items in the home....when you get up close and look....you can see the dust. When you get REALLY close. But, from a distance?? Looks clean - - doesn't it? Now, re-examine the sorts of pictures from teh Apollo missions that "claim" there is no "dust"....THINK about it, and think about how close each picture was, and the angle of lighting, and just what the camera could, and COULD NOT see on film......

Back to Jarrah White (the TOPIC, after all....) and his crap notions.....

Is there a particular and specific example of one of his nonsense videos that somehow "convinced" you? If so, present it, and then it can be addressed,and properly buried in the ground......as all his bloviated baloney deserves....

Originally posted by PsykoOps
Prove to me it is not possible. You make the claim now man up.

It isnt possible, as the descent videos clearly show that regolith was being displaced AFTER touchdown!
That means regolith hitting the legs of the LM should have collected at the base of the feet. In other words inside the pads!

Regarding "sticky" , "sharp" LUNAR DUST


Second, the astronauts claimed that there were dust clouds! That means dust elevated UP.
Eventually that dust had to settle.

Now even if they cut their engines and just landed:

There should have been dust in the pads.

Listen to this poor lady explain how the dust basically ruined the Apollo missions... and yet it all still worked.
And how micrometeorites constantly bombard the moon... really? Did any astronauts notice?
Unsealed rock boxes... you mean contaminated samples.

more on the toxicity of the moon


And here she explains how the moon formed

Yeah lucky space junk

reply to post by mockrock

No there would be no inconsistencies if the landings were real. You only get bloopers in staged pieces.

Originally posted by ProudBird

Now......during the landing, in case you still don't understand, since there is no air on the Moon (it is a vacuum) the loose debris cannot "billow" as it does here on Earth....THAT is what you are accustomed to seeing, and you must think differently, to account for the alien environment of the Moon.

The loose bits, even very fine bits that we may term "dust", when they were affected by the descent engine's exhaust gases moved laterally....horizontally.....and, absent the atmosphere, could not "float" above the surface as you see here on Earth.

So, assuming the dust & stones moved laterally as you say.
When they hit, in other words were blocked or stopped, by the legs and feet of the lunar lander, what happened to them?

reply to post by FoosM


So here the 'moon dust' (sand) is flung up by the moon buggy
www.youtube.com...

inconsistent with what happened with the cardboard/foil lander feet...

reply to post by FoosM


You said "stones".....in the post above, but not in the portion of your post that I am quoting here.

At what point were "stones" ever mentioned.....?

When they hit, in other words were blocked or stopped, by the legs and feet of the lunar lander, what happened to them?

Regardless, and sorry if this is too difficult to understand (for some).....in most missions, the lander's descent engine was being shut-down shortly after the "CONTACT" light illuminated. "CONTACT" was triggered via the nearly two-meter-long probes on THREE of the four landing legs that would, once they contacted the surface, send a message to illuminate the big blue "CONTACT" light in the cockpit of the Lunar Module.

It was designed, and known by the Astronauts who had trained to fly the vehicles, that from that (just under) two meter height of the "CONTACT" probes trigger.....the vehicle could withstand the drop, IF all thrust from the descent engine was completely and suddenly removed.

Pilots, though.....well, we sorta like to make the landing as "soft" as possible...and, in the case of the vertical "landing" of the Lunar Module, this involved modulating the throttle to modulate the thrust output of the descent engine.

If you were flying a helicopter in Earth's atmosphere, then it would by using the collective control to modulate the descent rate of the chopper, to achieve a soft landing.

On the Moon, in a vacuum....they had a different method (the thrust from the engine underneath the lander, modulated and throttled to control rate of descent).

Dunno why so many can't grasp this, it is ridiculously easy for me to visualize......as the lander descended, its descent engine thrust gases DID affect the surface, to distribute the "topsoil" (for want of a better term to describe) laterally, in a 360° direction .... all outward from the point of force of the descent engine nozzle pressure gases.

Since, in a vacuum, no "dust" can "billow" and "float" in the air, to later drop down and accumulate on surfaces (such as the landing pad feet)......there was, after touch-down, very little of the most "loosely" surface regolith left in the immediate vicinity....but of course, the thrust gases from the descent engine did not scour the "moonspace" completely free of all soil, and regolith!!

Any later "dust" accumulations on horizontal spacecraft surfaces would have been from the activities of the EVA, and what the Astronauts contributed, just by picking it up (whether on purpose, or schlepping it in because it was a nuisance and tended to adhere to everything it came into contact with.....)....

I mean....here, we have "Clean Rooms" specifically to go through a process to remove tiny particles of dust, that could corrupt delicate instruments. For Apollo EVAs, they did not have that luxury (nor need)......they dealt with what existed, and every mission learned a lesson, to apply to the next.

In fact, ALL of the lessons learned from Apollo are still being used in planning for any future missions to the Moon!!!

Now....back to Jarrah White.....

EXACTLY where did that bloke manage to "whip" NASA???

The only "whipping" I have seen has been done to Mr. White.

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by FoosM

 

You said "stones".....in the post above, but not in the portion of your post that I am quoting here.

At what point were "stones" ever mentioned.....?

When they hit, in other words were blocked or stopped, by the legs and feet of the lunar lander, what happened to them?

Regardless, and sorry if this is too difficult to understand (for some).....in most missions, the lander's descent engine was being shut-down shortly after the "CONTACT" light illuminated. "CONTACT" was triggered via the nearly two-meter-long probes on THREE of the four landing legs that would, once they contacted the surface, send a message to illuminate the big blue "CONTACT" light in the cockpit of the Lunar Module.

So what?
They landed with all legs on the surface, then shut their engines off!
Thats what the videos show.

reply to post by mockrock

So here the 'moon dust' (sand) is flung up by the moon buggy
www.youtube.com...

inconsistent with what happened with the cardboard/foil lander feet...

How so? The wheels of the rover transmit angular momentum to the moondust, which then follows an arc when this force is no longer applied. The thrust of the lander approaches the lunar surface perpendicularly, and the force is transferred at right angles along this circular intercept; in other words, it blows out along the ground. Dust would do this on Earth beneath a landing helicopter if it weren't for the Earth's atmosphere.

reply to post by FoosM

Thats what the videos show.

What videos? There were no video transmissions during the landing.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

SayonaraJupiter:
What I would like to know is who was the NASA person responsible for picking the lunar samples and creating the lucite-encased "gift rocks" that Spiro Agnew took with him on his Asian trip at the end of 1969.

DJW001:
Wow. They were able to encase rocks in Lucite in less than a month! Another smoking gun. Why do you want to know who picked the rocks? Do you suspect it was G. Gordon Liddy, or what?

Actually, I like to follow my intuition on things like this. Since you didn't provide anything tangible in answer I went and did my own research and think I found the likeliest candidate : James P. Dawson.

drjpdawson.com...

January 1965 to August 1969
Chief of the Engineering and Operations, NASA Houston. Dr. Dawson served as Chief of the Engineering and Operations Branch of the Lunar and Earth Sciences Division at the Manned Spacecraft Center from 1965 to 1969. His primary duties included the establishment of the Lunar Receiving Laboratory as an operational facility. This task consisted of preliminary design of the facility establishing the scientific requirement and implementing the design, fabrication, installation and operation of the scientific systems for the Biological, Physical Chemistry, Radiation Counting, Gas Analyses and Vacuum Laboratories. Dr. Dawson was also responsible for the establishment of staffing and managements requirements of the laboratory, initiating the service contract ad management plan and served as the Technical manager for the service contract. This included the technical and administrative supervision of 85 professionals and 141 technicians who support the Divisions technical programs and operated the Lunar Receiving Laboratory. In addition to the scientific areas above, Dr. Dawson was also responsible for flight control for all processes, design and fabrication, total productive and preventative maintenance programs, chemical quality control of all flow processes including affluent, administrative control over 8.9 million dollar budget and technical management for planning product requirements, lunar sample handling and analyses and implementation of sample distribution plan. Also, Dr. Dawson was heavily involved in the Management of the Research and Development and service contracts for the Lunar Receiving Laboratory equipment systems developed by other Principle Investigators at Universities and Industrial Research Laboratories.

implementation of sample distribution plan.

James P. Dawson was a significant historical character in the Apollo Mythology, he has his own oral history on file at NASA.

www.jsc.nasa.gov/history/oral.../DawsonJP/DawsonJP_11-9-00.pdf


Choice quotes...

The biggest problem was, too, is that when they got it all in, we had the same kind of rocks out in the backyard. The only difference was, there was less water in the lunar samples, but it looked just like the rocks we'd collected all over the world. So to a lot of the scientists that was a great disappointment.

...and we found nothing really different, other than they had a lot less water.

Dawson's oral history answers some of the open questions about the $41,000,000 in NASA grant money...

Luis Alvarez, as I say, they gave him three million, but he was a Nobel Prize winner.

And some interesting anecdotes about Nixon's influence at the time,

The basic research, I think, was the greatest thing that came out of the space program. [President Richard M.] Nixon killed it, really, in [19]'68. He stopped all the research contracts going out and held them to play politics with them in the primaries, so it never really got started again like it had been.

Dawson's oral history includes some enticing tidbits about corporate welfare at Boeing in between major space programs (Taxpayer funded high-precision desks!).. sounds a little bit like Communism to me

We had probably the best engineering design staff in the world ever assembled, was at [The] Boeing [Company], and trying to keep them together to get into the Shuttle work, they were designing desks, gray desks and stuff like this for the government, but the problem is, when you pull the drawer out, the drawer come out 13.00000 inches, and that probably cost 10,000 dollars to build a desk to their specifications.

It became obvious, so we just implemented in an oil company, oil search.
Right now we've got a running battle with the great scientists because the Earth looks just like the Moon, except we have vegetation on it.
Turn it off for a second. [Tape recorder turned off.]

If anyone has any better candidates for who was the NASA person responsible for picking the lunar samples and creating the lucite-encased "gift rocks" that Spiro Agnew took with him on his Asian trip at the end of 1969...? then please nominate your best candidate.

Why is this an important question? Because the skeptics want to know. Deny Ignorance.

Choice quotes from James P. Dawson official NASA oral history... Johnson Space Center Oral History Project ... www.jsc.nasa.gov/history/oral.../DawsonJP/DawsonJP_11-9-00.pdf

...that's the biggest disappointment, is that they didn't use, still haven't used a lot of the technology they developed. But it started in on the electronics. Of course, that was the base. NASA's the reason of all electronics that have been developed to date.

Ouch! This one even makes me wince, and I'm a skeptic!

DAWSON: Joe Piland probably was the greatest, because the way he managed things, everything got done. No nonsense. I learned an awful lot from him of how to conduct what we were doing. I applied his techniques to this Landsat thing and it worked. We did with five men and NASA was sitting there, in fact, we were doing work for NASA, satellite work for NASA, and they had all the big computers and hundreds of people involved, we were sitting up here with five people and two mini computers and could outperform them every time. That's because we had no bureaucracy to go through, we didn't have to ask anybody's permission. You had a task, you did it. That's the way it was with NASA up until the time they landed on the Moon. Then it turned into a bureaucracy.

And contaminated samples!

We got tickled, and we spilled it all over the floor. We had plenty left to do our experiment, but NASA was very particular about returning every little bit. So I figured that whoever gets that sample twenty-five years from now, will say, "Look! Organics!" because there's floor sweep all over it.

Smoking gun?

We wrote a letter, we told them what happened and whatnot, but some of the guys down there afterwards said that, boy, they tore that letter up quicker than anything. They didn't want people to realize. Like we're talking about the bugs on the Moon, we may have organics in lunar samples here and everybody will say, "Oh, we missed it."

FoosM, I think James P. Dawson has got some important things to say. Check it out.

BERGEN: When you worked as the principal investigator working with the lunar samples, did you find anything that surprised you?
DAWSON: Yes, almost got us excommunicated from NASA. They had a sample that they called the Genesis rock, and we had it, had a piece of it. We split it to do our experiments. When we did, we found that there was a glass sphere, little bitty, of course, but there were little bitty glass spheres in the sample. Now, for that glass to form like that, like they form marbles now, they melt the glass and drop it, and they drop into usually warm oil or something. But when it's in the air, the surface tension pulls it and it's round. So that had to be done without touching anything.
We also found some that were dumbbells, where the two glass pieces have plugged together. So that meant there were some mixing when this occurred. Also one of these had been hit by something and there was a groove across one end of the dumbbell, where something solid had hit it
9 November 2000 20
Johnson Space Center Oral History Project James P. Dawson
before it completely solidified.

That's fine, except we also found perfect cubes of glass, and to form a perfect cube of glass takes extremely slow cooling, with absolutely no interference.