Young Aussie genius whipping NASA in Moon Hoax Debate!

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

Sorry for the large picture size (to DJW). Here is Nixon's Presidential Diary for that day when Apollo 11 launched. It shows that Frank Borman was actually in the "small office" rather than the "Oval office."

Another smoking gun... an eighty year old man's recollections of exactly where he was forty years ago. He didn't even seem to be entirely clear on whether they were discussing the launch, the landing or the splashdown.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

 

Sorry for the large picture size (to DJW). Here is Nixon's Presidential Diary for that day when Apollo 11 launched. It shows that Frank Borman was actually in the "small office" rather than the "Oval office."

Another smoking gun... an eighty year old man's recollections of exactly where he was forty years ago. He didn't even seem to be entirely clear on whether they were discussing the launch, the landing or the splashdown.

edit on 14-10-2011 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)

yea.. no one can tell what the difference is between the OVAL office and a small office..

hmmm.. try again .. ?

reply to post by Komodo

yea.. no one can tell what the difference is between the OVAL office and a small office..

Given that Borman had probably met with Nixon dozens of times, it is very easy to understand why he would not be entirely certain where he was watching TV forty years ago. Where were you? What color shirt were you wearing? What did you have for breakfast that day?

Hey, NASA. I thought you had this radiation belt thing figured out 50 years ago!



RBSP launch date no earlier than 15 Aug. 2012, RBSP video rbsp.jhuapl.edu...

The Radiation Belt Storm Probes mission is part of NASA's Living With a Star Geospace program to explore fundamental processes that operate throughout the solar system. RBSP is being designed to help NASA understand the sun's influence on the Earth and near-Earth space by studying the planet's radiation belts on various scales of space and time.

It means that they don't have an understanding of fundamental processes

Instruments
Relativistic Proton Spectrometer (RPS)
The RPS will measure inner Van Allen belt protons with energies from 50 MeV to 2 GeV. Presently, the intensity of trapped protons with energies beyond about 150 MeV is not well known and thought to be underestimated in existing specification models. Such protons are known to pose a number of hazards to astronauts and spacecraft, including total ionizing dose, displacement damage, single event effects, and nuclear activation.

This instrument will address a priority highly ranked by the scientific and technical community and will extend the measurement capability of this mission to a range beyond that originally planned. The project’s goal is development of a new standard radiation model for spacecraft design.

Source rbsp.jhuapl.edu...

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

It means that they don't have an understanding of fundamental processes

It means that they are always eager to learn more. Remember the oceanic current analogy? Sailors figured out that there were currents quickly enough, but only recently have we begun to understand fundamental processes like the North Atlantic Conveyer.

reply to post by DJW001


So NASA doesn't know the fundamentals of the Van Allen Radiation Belts. FACT #1.
And NASA is looking for a new standard radiation model for spacecraft design. FACT #2.
NASA claims to have sent 3 guinea pigs, erm, astronauts, out to the moon in December of 1968 and they returned back to Earth after 10 orbits in a Block II CM. Am I correct?

Frank Borman had an interesting anecdote in his oral history. At some point there was a discussion between mission planner, astronauts, HQ (including Bellcomm), MSFC and many other key players. The planners, probably the Bellcomm people, wanted to keep Apollo 8 out there for a month!

Frank only wanted to make one orbit (!) because that one orbit completes the mission . Anything above and beyond one orbit was too much for Frank. But the compromise was made for 10 orbits.

It's also interesting to note the religious propaganda that goes on with Apollo 8. Specifically, the reading from the first chapter of the Book of Genesis on a ritualistic date : Christmas.

Bill Anders was also on Apollo 8. He found his experience of space made a mockery of his beliefs and he gave up religion.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Komodo

 

yea.. no one can tell what the difference is between the OVAL office and a small office..

Given that Borman had probably met with Nixon dozens of times, it is very easy to understand why he would not be entirely certain where he was watching TV forty years ago. Where were you? What color shirt were you wearing? What did you have for breakfast that day?

If Borman met with Nixon dozens of timesat the White House it would show up in the Nixon Presidential Daily diaries. Do you want to perform that search or you want me to?

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

So NASA doesn't know the fundamentals of the Van Allen Radiation Belts. FACT #1.
And NASA is looking for a new standard radiation model for spacecraft design. FACT #2.
NASA claims to have sent 3 guinea pigs, erm, astronauts, out to the moon in December of 1968 and they returned back to Earth after 10 orbits in a Block II CM. Am I correct?

No. You have taken the first two statements dramatically out of context. Solar Magnetohydrodynamics is a new field that is making great progress thanks to the computing power that has become available in the past twenty years. NASA understood the general nature of the ERB's fifty years ago; only now do they have the ability to understand their full complexity. They naturally need new standard radiation models because spacecraft are now required to function for much longer periods of time in much wider, and hence, more complicated regions. Whether or not your personal religion permits you to accept the fact, NASA has sent many people into, and through, the ERB's and heliosphere.

Frank Borman had an interesting anecdote in his oral history. At some point there was a discussion between mission planner, astronauts, HQ (including Bellcomm), MSFC and many other key players. The planners, probably the Bellcomm people, wanted to keep Apollo 8 out there for a month!

How did you get that from this?

You know, the Tracking people wanted us to stay up there a month. I didn’t want to stay more than one—it was a give-and-take, and Kraft called the shots. So we ended up going around 10 times, and I never really thought about, you know, going around behind— you’d lose radio contact; but that’s about all.

Your own source.

It was the "tracking people," the engineers responsible for the new Deep Space Tracking Network who wanted a chance to practice using their new systems, not Bellcomm. In fact, where do you see Bellcomm mentioned at all?

Frank only wanted to make one orbit (!) because that one orbit completes the mission . Anything above and beyond one orbit was too much for Frank. But the compromise was made for 10 orbits.

That is entirely your personal interpretation of the facts he relates.

It's also interesting to note the religious propaganda that goes on with Apollo 8. Specifically, the reading from the first chapter of the Book of Genesis on a ritualistic date : Christmas.

Thousands of hours of transmissions from outer space, and you are completely obsessed by the two minutes one group of astronauts chose to read poetry from the Old Testament on Christmas Day. It's not like they read the whole Book of Revelations and added a fire and brimstone sermon.

Bill Anders was also on Apollo 8. He found his experience of space made a mockery of his beliefs and he gave up religion.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

If Borman met with Nixon dozens of timesat the White House it would show up in the Nixon Presidential Daily diaries. Do you want to perform that search or you want me to?

You admire Nixon enough to use him as your avatar, so I'll let you have the pleasure.

reply to post by DJW001


WTF is Solar Magnetohydrodynamics? I'm real smart and I have no idea what that is. DJ, you need another hobby! lol.

reply to post by Helious

WTF is Solar Magnetohydrodynamics? I'm real smart and I have no idea what that is. DJ, you need another hobby! lol.

en.wikipedia.org...

You're right. I probably do need another hobby. I'm certainly wasting my time here.

Originally posted by DJW001
.... Oh, and you forgot to mention that Borman moved to Roswell! [Cue creepy music.]

Well that brings in again the Edgar Mitchell... he actually grew up around Roswell

Views on UFOs
Mitchell has publicly expressed his opinions that he is "90 percent sure that many of the thousands of unidentified flying objects, or UFOs, recorded since the 1940s, belong to visitors from other planets"[6] and that UFOs have been the "subject of disinformation in order to deflect attention and to create confusion so the truth doesn't come out".[7] Dateline NBC conducted an interview with Mitchell on April 19, 1996, during which he discussed meeting with officials from three countries who claimed to have had personal encounters with extraterrestrials. He offered his opinion that the evidence for such "alien" contact was "very strong" and "classified" by governments, who were covering up visitations and the existence of alien beings' bodies in places such as Roswell, New Mexico. He further claimed that UFOs had provided "sonic engineering secrets" that were helpful to the U.S. government. Mitchell's book, The Way of the Explorer," discusses his journey into mysticism and space.[8]
In 2004 he told the St. Petersburg Times that a "cabal of insiders" in the U.S. government were studying recovered alien bodies, and that this group had stopped briefing U.S. presidents after John F. Kennedy.[9] He said, "We all know that UFOs are real; now the question is, where they come from."[10]
On July 23, 2008 Edgar Mitchell was interviewed on Kerrang Radio by Nick Margerrison. Mitchell claimed the Roswell crash was real and that aliens have contacted humans several times, but that governments have hidden the truth for 60 years stating, "I happen to have been privileged enough to be in on the fact that we've been visited on this planet, and the UFO phenomenon is real." In reply, a spokesman for NASA stated, "NASA does not track UFOs. NASA is not involved in any sort of cover up about alien life on this planet or anywhere in the universe. Dr Mitchell is a great American, but we do not share his opinions on this issue."[11][12]
In an interview with Fox News on July 25, 2008, Mitchell clarified that his comments did not involve NASA, but quoted unnamed sources, since deceased, at Roswell who confided to him that the Roswell incident did involve an alien craft. Mitchell also claims to have subsequently received confirmation from an unnamed intelligence officer at the Pentagon.[13][14]

NASA fired Al Worden ostensibly because Al Worden took undeclared postal covers with him into space. I think this is the real reason Al Worden was fired..

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter
NASA fired Al Worden ostensibly because Al Worden took undeclared postal covers with him into space.

He wasn't fired at all - he stayed with NASA until he retired from active service in 1975 -

During 1972-1973, Worden was Senior Aerospace Scientist at the NASA Ames Research Center, and from 1973 to 1975, he was chief of the Systems Study Division at Ames.

After retirement from active duty in 1975, Worden became President of Maris Worden Aerospace, Inc., and is currently Staff Vice-President of BG Goodrich Aerospace Brecksville, Ohio.

from a bio written in 1993

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


FYI, Here is an article which characterizes Al Worden's departure from NASA as being "fired".
www.examiner.com...

Falling to Earth: An Apollo 15 Astronaut’s Journey to Moon - Book Review

Jason Rhian, NASA Examiner
September 24, 2011

Continue reading on Examiner.com Falling to Earth: An Apollo 15 Astronaut’s Journey to Moon - Book Review - National NASA | Examiner.com www.examiner.com...

Al Worden was at the peak of his career. He had just returned from the moon on what was being dubbed the greatest scientific expedition of the age. Upon his return to Earth he and his crewmates Commander Dave Scott and Lunar Module Pilot James Irwin met the president, spoke to Congress and were honored in a ticker-tape parade. In nine months he got a phone call stating that he was fired and that he needed to clean out his desk – he refused. What would follow went largely untold for four decades.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


Except as the article notes he did not actually get fired then, and

Worden would remain at NASA for some time at Ames Research Center before leaving in 1975.

so his "firing" did not happen - it was rescinded, resisted and withdrawn - however you want to characterise it it didnt' happen, and he continued to work there - according to your own source.

Nice selective quoting by you to try to establish a lie as a fact!

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

 

Except as the article notes he did not actually get fired then, and

Worden would remain at NASA for some time at Ames Research Center before leaving in 1975.

so his "firing" did not happen - it was rescinded, resisted and withdrawn - however you want to characterise it it didnt' happen, and he continued to work there - according to your own source.

Nice selective quoting by you to try to establish a lie as a fact!

edit on 18-10-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)

Wrong. Al Worden interview on Coast-to-Coast. The interview is hosted on Worden's own website.

Al Worden says that "I was fired."

alworden.com...

Now you may apologize for your mistake. He refused to leave his office while he looked for a new job at NASA.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


Unbeievable!! Caught red handed in the act of lying, you still defend your own ignorance??

Which bits of "HE REFUSED TO LEAVE.", and he STAYED EMPLOYED BY NASA UNTIL 1975. are you incapable of comprehending??

From your source:

AL WORDEN served as a support crew member for Apollo 9, backup command module pilot for Apollo 12, and command module pilot for Apollo 15's mission July 26 - August 7, 1971. After retirement from active duty in 1975,....

I guess psychologists might postulate that it must be hard for you to have invested so much in such an obvious lie you cannot bring yourself to admit you're wrong or some nonsense like that.

I'm just going to put it down to dishonesty.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Did you listen to the interview on Coast-to-Coast? I'll help you out a little. Go directly to part 2 of the interview which is the portion that I quoted Al Worden.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


I cannot listen to files wher I am at hte moment - I will do so in a few hours. I have no doubt it says nothign more than is already availabel - he was fired, refused to go, and stayed with NASA another 3 years.

However I found the Coast-to-Coast page relating to the interview - what they say in overview is:

NASA under pressure from Senate Space Committee decided to make an example of them and the Apollo 15 crew lost their spaceflight jobs, he explained.

- Coast-to-Coast

the "he" is Worden.

So he was removed from teh flight programme, andstayed employed by NASA elsewhere. You could reasonably characterise that as punished, or demoted. Worden may have characterised it as being "fired" - but it was clearly not a matter of being jobless!!

Here's another hint for you:

Worden refused to go, and after a tongue-lashing before Congress and an investigation, was found guilty of nothing worse than poor judgement. But his career as an astronaut was ruined and he was shunned by peers.

New Scientist review

Try to get over it...