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Young Aussie genius whipping NASA in Moon Hoax Debate!

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posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


en.wikipedia.org...


When a high-energy particle travels through a semiconductor, it leaves an ionized track behind. This ionization may cause a highly localized effect similar to the transient dose one - a benign glitch in output, a less benign bit flip in memory or a register, or, especially in high-power transistors, a destructive latchup and burnout.


The flight computers are indeed radiation hardened. The personal laptops they use are put through a qualification process, but are otherwise off-the-shelf models. They are mainly used for productivity purposes, not critical flight operations, though.




posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by nataylor
 


Hey Nat, what do you think of Phil Plait lying on national radio to deceive the audience?

Do you think he was fair in saying Apollo was only in the VAB for a "few minutes" when he knows it was about an hour and a half?



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by nataylor
 



The flight computers are indeed radiation hardened. The personal laptops they use are put through a qualification process, but are otherwise off-the-shelf models. They are mainly used for productivity purposes, not critical flight operations, though.


Actually it seems they only use "on board' laptops that are supplied by NASA and software must be compatible in any program you wish to upload..
Here's a NASA page on it..
The last page has a link to on board laptop specs but you need to be authorized..

So I don't see them taking their own "off the shelf" laptop up there..

Edit:link,www.nasa.gov...
edit on 19-4-2011 by backinblack because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by FoosM
 



Plait said it took only a few minutes to traverse the belt. Minutes like in under 10. Rogan shocked by that comment asked how long it would take to go through 60.000 miles (or something like that), and Plait answered: I dont know, a couple of hours maybe. Then Plait emphasized that Apollo didnt go through all of the belts, hence the few minutes.

So DJ, 90 minutes is not what Plait meant by a few minutes. He meant like no time at all, under 10 minutes. Maybe 20.


Read what you just wrote. When asked to be more specific, did Plait say "under ten minutes?" No, he did not. Why are you claiming that he meant under ten minutes when he specifically said "a couple of hours?" You twist things like Jarrah "Never Forget A Slight" White. Incidentally, I am flattered that you think I am an accredited astrophysicist. I am not.


I didnt say that Plait said a few minutes = under 10 minutes.
Im saying that most people would interpret "a few minutes" to mean under 10 minutes.
If I told my boss or a friend "I will be a few minutes late".
They would be quite surprised and pissed off if I showed up an hour later.

Plait claims that the trip took a few minutes.
Going by the transcripts and the data, even NASA says about 90 minutes one way.
This makes Plait, a so called expert on Apollo, and so called hoax debunker, a slimy spin doctor because he knows better.



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


The current laptops NASA uses on the ISS are Lenovo ThinkPad T61p's. They've used other ThinkPads before. These are just off-the-shelf laptops anyone can buy.



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by nataylor
reply to post by backinblack
 


The current laptops NASA uses on the ISS are Lenovo ThinkPad T61p's. They've used other ThinkPads before. These are just off-the-shelf laptops anyone can buy.


Funny then that there's a link for on board laptop specs and it's a restricted site.


Edit: Not exactly off the shelf..

ThinkPad has a long, proud history of providing the engineering excellence necessary to meet the challenges of computing in space. This latest delivery to the space station also demonstrated Lenovo’s ability to meet the manufacturing, logistics and testing challenges needed to meet – and exceed – NASA’s expectations.
In addition, Lenovo set up a homogeneous assembly line to solely focus on building the NASA order, a process that took months of planning to execute effectively and efficiently. That combination of engineering, innovation and service excellence is what makes this partnership a real achievement for Lenovo, said Fran O’Sullivan, senior vice president, Think Product Group.

www.lenovoblogs.com...
edit on 19-4-2011 by backinblack because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
Edit: Not exactly off the shelf..
Essentially, they are (unless you can point out some modification that is done to them). Since NASA requires the machines to all be identical, it's not surprising they would set up a dedicated assembly line to ensure identical components were used at all times.



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by nataylor

Originally posted by backinblack
Edit: Not exactly off the shelf..
Essentially, they are (unless you can point out some modification that is done to them). Since NASA requires the machines to all be identical, it's not surprising they would set up a dedicated assembly line to ensure identical components were used at all times.


How can I point out the differences when the link to the specs will not let outsiders in??
I think my quote from the manufacturer above clearly shows they are NOT off the shelf models anyway..



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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Try this at work 'Oh, this will only take a few days'....and it takes you 90 days.

Plait is a silly man, he's a Joke



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by webstra
Try this at work 'Oh, this will only take a few days'....and it takes you 90 days.
Plait is a silly man, he's a Joke


Try telling your boss your going for a smoke and will be back in a few minutes then turn up 90 minutes later..
Welcome to the unemployment cue..



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by backinblack
How can I point out the differences when the link to the specs will not let outsiders in??
I think my quote from the manufacturer above clearly shows they are NOT off the shelf models anyway..


You seem to be caught up in semantics lately. Did NASA go down to Best Buy and scoop up the laptops they needed? No, of course not. They did select a regular, consumer laptop model? Yes they did, the ThinkPad T61p.



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by nataylor

Originally posted by backinblack
How can I point out the differences when the link to the specs will not let outsiders in??
I think my quote from the manufacturer above clearly shows they are NOT off the shelf models anyway..


You seem to be caught up in semantics lately. Did NASA go down to Best Buy and scoop up the laptops they needed? No, of course not. They did select a regular, consumer laptop model? Yes they did, the ThinkPad T61p.


Semantics? I'd call it comprehension..
What part of this didn't you get?

This latest delivery to the space station also demonstrated Lenovo’s ability to meet the manufacturing, logistics and testing challenges needed to meet – and exceed – NASA’s expectations.

And then they setup a separate manufacturing line JUST for NASA..
I bet if you check NASA's accounts they also didn't pay market price..



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by backinblack
Semantics? I'd call it comprehension..
What part of this didn't you get?

This latest delivery to the space station also demonstrated Lenovo’s ability to meet the manufacturing, logistics and testing challenges needed to meet – and exceed – NASA’s expectations.

And then they setup a separate manufacturing line JUST for NASA..
I bet if you check NASA's accounts they also didn't pay market price..
The part I'm not getting is that any of that means there is some fundamental change required to the computer. Yes, there is an extensive testing process. So? And since, as I said before NASA requires the machines to be identical, a separate assembly line makes sense. Also, there's the fact that this model is from 2007, so other assembly lines would be using newer components, anyway.

Given the strict testing requirements, the necessity of identical components, and a dedicated assembly line, no I'm sure NASA didn't pay market price for them.



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by nataylor
 


OK, so what's your thoughts on Plaits lies??



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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Why are people even debating Phil Plait's errors? What does it matter? Its just so typical of this type of argument. Anyone ever seen the movie. "thank you for smoking?"

"I don't need to prove my point, all I need to do is prove that you're wrong"

All the semantics and political dancing is going nowhere. We have persons saying they want more decorum whilst calling people cheer leaders, and people wanting some kind of impromptu witch hunt started for people making errors. Its like watching a live political debate. Take off the clown shoes people.

Phil Plait has said some odd things. Ralph Rene has said some really odd things. Astrobrant2 is a bit of a jerk apparently. Ralph Rene is a nutter. Perhaps we should take scores and nice points and let that decide reality? I don't know about anyone else, but I think popularity contests are fantastic.

Phil's error doesn't suddenly open a gaping hole in his argument like people might want you to believe. Jarrah spends more time on these stupid vendettas when he should be trying to prove his point and give us some further information and further insight.

As far as the computer equipment goes ... its well documented on the net about how modern computers are more vulnerable to radiation. Its been posted in this thread before. Of course persons toss their head back and laugh saying, 'oh but its newer lol, and I'm so very smart, and newer things are always better' which makes me face palm. (Just random persons mind you, not anyone that has done an experiment worth a damn)

As far as I know its due to the complexity of the parts, and since a single small part being exposed to radiation can cause a problem its better if the parts are much larger. Funnily enough this should be easy to test. Some person could go get a big computer processor and expose it to radiation if they really badly wanted and prove the whole thing.

Instead Jarrah is flying around ambushing Phil Plait about his honesty, and everyone seems to be following suit.

All the rhetoric, dancing, and semantics in the world isn't going to prove left or right. Can discuss how hypocritical both sides are all you like ... accuse people of being Jarrah, accuse people of being Phil Plait ... Could always go get a few processors and prove modern day science completely wrong. You would be awesomely famous.

If I truly believed the whole thing was fake, I know what I'd be doing. (Hint: I wouldn't waste my time analyzing people's debating techniques)



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by Pinke
 



Why are people even debating Phil Plait's errors?


There's errors and there's lies meant to deceive..

We are discussing the latter about Plait..



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by backinblack
 



There's errors and there's lies meant to deceive..



No.....PINKE is absolutely, 100% CORRECT!!!

The TRUE, regular and demonstratively proven liar is JARRAH WHITE! (Remember him??? The so-called "Young Aussie genius" that is the topic of this thread???)


Time and again, video ofter video, "JW"s deception, and disingenuous tactics have been exposed.

THIS? Like a dog with a bone, who doesn't want to submit to his bath, is but another type of distraction.....to delay and deflect from the TRUE topic here.... and HIS "crimes"...... (the 'crime' of spreading stupidity and stealing time, in schlock videos....from others. WASTING their time....).



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


You can't prove either way that it wasn't a slip of the tongue, or a moment of confusion. I've had plenty myself. If you've never ever had one maybe give God a call, he has this party called the apocalypse he needs someone perfect to run it. The evidence you have about Phil's intentions are no more compelling than people's opinions on vocal tones of the astronauts, their interpretations of Jarrah's errors and research choices, or persons baseless speculations on the effect of radiation on computer parts.

The most you will get out of calling Phil Plait a liar is some sense of self satisfaction that your debating opponents lack some sort of quality that you may have in abundance. Does it do anything else? No.

If Jarrah, or any number of other people (including yourself) really wanted to prove a point there's a dozen better ways of doing it, as I've already said.



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 



The TRUE, regular and demonstratively proven liar is JARRAH WHITE! (Remember him??? The so-called "Young Aussie genius" that is the topic of this thread???)


Whatever you say weed..
If JW made that same "slip" we'd see a half page rant from you about his "outright lies" and "deception"..

But it's plait so it's just a slip..



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by Pinke
 



You can't prove either way that it wasn't a slip of the tongue, or a moment of confusion.


Most of his 4 or so minutes of debate was related to the radiation issue..
He downplayed it at every turn..
I don't believe it was a slip at all..
He has discussed the same issue many times..



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