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Young Aussie genius whipping NASA in Moon Hoax Debate!

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posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 01:29 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 02:18 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by FoosM
 



It took just one second for the astronaut to jump into the rover.
In that one second he pulled out the sampler, passed it from one hand to the other (while still in the air!) and made it disappear. So where did it go?


Between pics 1+2 he had enough time to swap it from his left to his right hand and spread his arms back out..
Surely that infers between pics 2+3 he had ample time to put it down or throw it to the side..

IMO there are better cases to be made than this one...



How could he have enough time while he is in the middle of a jump??
I dont get how people dont see this.
Picture number two is labelled as "JUMPING into the LM"!

And why would he throw it to the side?



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 02:31 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by CHRLZ
 



But for anyone who wants to actually think things through, my posts might be appreciated. Again, I'll leave it to the audience to decide whether this new 'claim' has been thought through and is worthy of further consideration.


This is a forum for individuals to debate and discuss..
You on the other hand seem to think it's a stage and you are some great actor..
You continually mention "your audience".
Do you really think many are following this thread other than your mates etc?
I note it's pretty much the only thread you post in..
Maybe you need to widen your interests..
Chasing stars seems to be your only aim..

Ohh BTW, some of them dust particle reach up to a kilometer in the air..
Not exactly a minor jump...


BiB, There is not a single man or woman in this thread that participated in the Apollo program. Therefore, everyone here is posting on second hand knowledge and information. You have the same credibility in this thread as FoosM or weed or DJW or nataylor or ppk or anyone else who hangs out in the thread.

There are only 24 men who can attest to the reality of Apollo. Some of those men are already dead or going senile. Some Apollo astronauts are even selling their Apollo gear in high profile auctions.

Why would an astronaut keep their Apollo sunglasses for 40 years and then abruptly dispose of them at auction? Ask Gene Cernan.Was he a little strapped for cash in 2008? A retired military pilot and a retired NASA administrator has already a comfortable income. Maybe not enough with the book royalties and speaking appearances.

What's going through Gene Cernan's mind: These sunglasses went to the moon with me in 1972. Sell them. They have no sentimental value to me or my family. I was issued these sunglasses by NASA via taxpayer dollars and I now choose to sell them to the highest bidder for a personal gain.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 02:37 AM
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reply to post by SayonaraJupiter
 



What's going through Gene Cernan's mind: These sunglasses went to the moon with me in 1972. Sell them. They have no sentimental value to me or my family. I was issued these sunglasses by NASA via taxpayer dollars and I now choose to sell them to the highest bidder for a personal gain.


I don't know his personal situation so I can't comment..
The rest of your post I agree with..
No one in this thread except JW are known..
Others just say what experience they have and expect us to swallow it..



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 02:54 AM
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reply to post by SayonaraJupiter
 



I'm still stuck in 1968. The Apollo radiation data. The rocket problems. The unusual amount of original source material that "went missing". The fact that no human has been beyond the belts since supposedly 1972. The problem of radiation which modern NASA pundits admit as factual : IN 2011 WE CANT SEND MEN TO THE MOON.


At least you admit to being forty years behind. We have discussed the "radiation issue" to death. You do realize that the later Gemini missions spent significant amount of time in the inner ERB?


Gemini XI GLV-11 12566 Conrad Gordon 12–15 September 1966 14:42 UTC 02d 23h 17m 08s
Gemini record altitude, 1,189.3 kilometres (739.0 mi) (739.2 mi) reached using Agena propulsion system after first orbit rendezvous and docking. Gordon made 33-minute EVA and two-hour standup EVA. 44 orbits.

Wikipedia

As usual, you repeat the mindless meme: "We CAN'T go to the Moon." Why not? Because no-one is willing to foot the bill any more. We can't cross the Mediterranean by trireme any more, either. Does that mean the Greeks couldn't do it? No, it means no-one is interested in investing in and redeveloping the technology.


So the NASA cheerleaders continue to star each other for making famous statements about something that none of them were personally involved with. They are getting all their data from NASA which controls every pixel of every picture on all of their nebulous websites they operate....

Multiple nebulous websites for the same basic information... a little here, a little there.
science.ksc.nasa.gov...
nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov...
www.nasa.gov...


Whereas the Hoax Propagandists rely on demonstrable lies and cheesy forgeries:



While scrupulously avoiding all the other sources that confirm NASA's accomplishments:


С приходом космической эры Институт стал головным в области исследования Луны и планет. В Институте были разработаны научные приборы, которые устанавливались на космические аппараты, направлявшиеся к Луне и Венере, и принесшие первые сведения об их вещественном составе. В Институт были доставлены и до сих пор хранятся в его специальной лаборатории образцы лунного грунта, доставленного советскими автоматическими станциями "Луна-16", "Луна-20" и "Луна-24". Институт располагает уникальной коллекцией метеоритов.

Verdansky Institute


Who were the skeptics and who were the converts here in 1968? The skeptics were inside NASA itself. Those skeptics changed their tune rather suddenly they went from pogo-problems to Lunar-Go in a very short time span.

Apollo 7 was a LEO mission. Based on the performance of A7's mission the go-ahead was given for a full mission outside the VAB. The very first NASA mission beyond the VAB using living animals, ie, A8 astronauts.

I challenge the NASA cheerleaders to NAME THE SKEPTICS of 1968! Not just James Webb because that's obvious. I don't believe James Webb would be the sole skeptic at NASA in 1968. There must have been quite a few of them. Who were they and why were they skeptical?


You don't seem to understand the use of the word "skeptic," do you? Are you implying that there were people at NASA who, like some people here, think it was all done with cardboard sets? The setbacks and controversies within NASA are well documented, particularly in light of the Apollo 1 tragedy which, as usual, you seem to forget about. You want names of skeptics and what they were skeptical about?


1967 April 17 - . LV Family: Saturn V. Launch Vehicle: Saturn V.
Requirements of the Apollo flight program before the first lunar landing mission - . Nation: USA. Related Persons: Kraft. Program: Apollo. Flight: Apollo 7. Spacecraft: Apollo LM. Summary: A meeting at MSC considered requirements of the Apollo flight program before the first lunar landing mission.

1967 April 27 - .
NASA Task Team - Block II Apollo CSM Redefinition - . Nation: USA. Related Persons: Borman. Program: Apollo. Spacecraft: Apollo CSM; CSM Block II. NASA Task Team - Block II Redefinition, CSM, was established by ASPO. The team - to be in residence at North American Aviation during the redefinition period - was to provide timely response to questions and inputs on detail design, overall quality and reliability, test and checkout, baseline conditions, configuration control, and schedules.
Astronaut Frank Borman was named Task Team Manager and group leaders were: Design, Aaron Cohen; Quality and Reliability and Test and Checkout Procedures, Scott H. Simpkinson; Materials, Jerry W. Craig; Specifications and Configuration Control, Richard E. Lindeman; and Scheduling, Douglas R. Broome.

1967 May 1 - .
Apollo crew safety and mission success concerns - . Nation: USA. Program: Apollo. Spacecraft: Apollo CSM. George C. White, Jr., NASA OMSF Director of Apollo Reliability and Quality, told Apollo Program Director Samuel C. Phillips that an MSC presentation on April 29 had restored confidence in Apollo's future, but three areas caused him concern as possible compromises with crew safety and mission success in the interest of near-term schedule and cost considerations. They were:
Soldered joints in coolant system plumbing. Design of the joints was basically wrong; the insertion of the tubing into the sleeve was less than the tube diameter. Shear strength of the solder had to be depended upon for mechanical integrity against bending and vibration as well as for sealing. Insertion should be two to three times the diameter so that bending could be carried by the bearing of the tube in the sleeve, and the solder would only have to seal.
Wiring harnesses. Wiring in the Block II spacecraft had a number of problems, the real significance of which was difficult to evaluate. Numerous instances of damaged insulation (bare conductor) had been found and the repairs had, in turn, resulted in more damage. At least once, split insulation (bare conductor) had been found inside a wire bundle; it could have been in the wire as received or could have resulted from cold flow.
Modification procedure. MSC planned to make the changes in the Block II spacecraft by working directly from mockup to the spacecraft, using sketches and a minimum of paper work. While this kind of an operation could get a job done in a hurry, it required a strong leader, thoroughly experienced in working with engineering and factory people and procedures, and rigorous adherence to a minimal streamlined paper system. All "engineering" must be on drawings and all fabrication work must be inspected at least as rigorously as in a normal manufacturing process.
White urged close management attention to ensure quality.

1967 June 1 - .
Apollo schedules - . Nation: USA. Related Persons: Kraft. Program: Apollo. Spacecraft: Apollo LM. MSC's Director of Flight Operations Christopher C. Kraft, Jr., told ASPO Manager George M. Low that his Directorate was willing to support the flight test program presented in late May and felt that the computer programs and operational support he had in development would support the flights as currently scheduled. He did offer some comments on the proposed flight test program and asked that the NASA Office of Manned Space Flight be given an indication that his suggested program was being considered as a future alternate approach. The comments included:
"The first manned LM flight appears to be most ambitious. We believe that when the time comes, a much more conservative approach to the flight plan will be taken because of the lack of experience with the LM spacecraft. . . .
We have the general feeling that there are insufficient flight tests scheduled in order to prove the worthiness of the LM and that a lunar landing flight could only follow a successfully completed schedule of LM flights. . . .
We believe that a lunar orbit flight with the CSM/LM should be included in the flight test program, as an alternate to the third CSM/LM flight you have proposed, or as an additional flight to the program. . . .
. . . we believe it feasible that one of the LM development flights could be conducted as safely in the vicinity of the moon as in earth orbit, assuming that the CSM has been proven at that time. . . .
Finally, we believe that the lunar type flight programs we propose would have great impact on the stature of the nation's space program. . . ."

A lot more here. Enjoy.


Apollo Program. 24 men up, 24 men down. That's a fantastic record of success. Some of those astronauts were playing around on the moon like it was a joke. A serious joke. Keep a straight face. Keep your gold visor down.


Three men dead, one spacecraft crippled en route. Sorry there wasn't more tragedy for you. I suppose the problem is that they made it look so easy, even when they were on the razor's edge.


I think Jarrah White has done an expert and genius work by compiling so many questions about Apollo into his video series Moonfaker. There were skeptics in 1968. There are skeptics in 2011. NASA cheerleaders need to deal with that fact, too.


If Jarrah White gets credit for asking his stupid questions, what about the people who keep answering the m in a way that reveals either his ignorance or dishonesty. There were morons in 1968, and Hoax propagandists like Jarrah are committed to keeping them ignorant today.





edit on 10-3-2011 by DJW001 because: Edit to correct formatting.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 03:04 AM
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reply to post by FoosM
 



How could he have enough time while he is in the middle of a jump??
I dont get how people dont see this.
Picture number two is labelled as "JUMPING into the LM"!

And why would he throw it to the side?


Because labeling a picture "1.25 seconds into an LRV entry sequence" would only confuse some people more. Give the poor dead horse a break, FoosM, The tool carrier was behind the astronaut, he could have put it in there.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 03:05 AM
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reply to post by SayonaraJupiter
 



There are only 24 men who can attest to the reality of Apollo


The figure is slightly closer to 500,000.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 03:47 AM
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Originally posted by DJW001
The figure is slightly closer to 500,000.


It's already been discussed how not everyone needs to know the true purpose of a NASA mission.

Here is the original post.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

So when you say 500,000.

Do you mean the console operators that received data exactly as they did in the simulation ?

Or do you mean the rocket engineers who built the first stages, that didn't know if it was going to the moon or not?

Or do you mean the guys that provided electrical support to the launch pad, that could have been on duty for any type of launch?

Or do you mean the security personnel on the pad, who are there for every launch of every type of vehicle ? etc. etc. etc.

Soon your 500,000 people who kept this big secret whittles down to a very small number that could have been easily contained.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 04:00 AM
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reply to post by ppk55
 



Soon your 500,000 people who kept this big secret whittles down to a very small number that could have been easily contained.


I'd say 500,000 would include the guy that delivered the pizza on Friday arvos..



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 05:05 AM
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reply to post by ppk55
 



It's already been discussed how not everyone needs to know the true purpose of a NASA mission.

Here is the original post.
www.abovetopsecret.com...


There you go again, repeating yourself. Here was my response to your post:



Everyone involved with the design, construction, testing, launching, guidance, etc. etc. had no idea of it's true purpose. edit: Nearly everyone, obviously.



Everyone involved in the design, construction, etc. knew exactly what its purpose was: to loft 250 kilogram payloads into an orbit of about 200 km altitude. It didn't matter what the payload was. The clients could shoot mice into space for all they cared. Pretty sure no-one really thought it was mice after a while.


You can now extrapolate this to the Apollo program.



Exactly. Everyone involved in the Apollo program knew they were designing, building and launching a rocket capable of sending a massive payload to the Moon. They also knew they were developing manned spacecraft capable of travelling to the Moon, landing and returning.


No one is denying Discoverer, sorry, Corona was a spy satellite. The fascinating part is how everyone who had anything to do with it had no idea of it's true purpose.



Everyone involved in designing and operating the Corona satellite knew everything about its mission and operation, obviously. You seem to be confusing the contractors who built the boosters with the clients at DARPA. The contractors didn't need to know what the satellite was for; so long as it was under 250 kilos they could put it into orbit.


So when people say hundreds of thousands were involved with the Apollo missions. Well, yes they were. Did they know what would happen just after launch? Absolutely not.



Why not? They had all worked hard to build a spacecraft with a specific mission, unlike the Thor-Agena used in the Explorer/Corona programs.


Just like the mice were replaced by spy camera film on the Discoverer / Corona mission, perhaps the astronauts might have met a similar fate.



So are you saying the astronauts were replaced by a spy camera... or mice?

Page 349.


So when you say 500,000.

Do you mean the console operators that received data exactly as they did in the simulation ?


And who therefore would know if there were something wrong with the data they were receiving from the ground tracking stations in real time, of course.


Or do you mean the rocket engineers who built the first stages, that didn't know if it was going to the moon or not?


All they knew was that they were building a booster that could definitely loft a spacecraft to the Moon. If the NASA brass changed their minds and decided to use it as a lawn ornament the engineers still knew for a fact that it was capable of sending Apollo to the Moon.


Or do you mean the guys that provided electrical support to the launch pad, that could have been on duty for any type of launch?


Yes, you're right, they were very well trained and highly experienced. They would definitely have noticed three guys sneaking down the back stairs.


Or do you mean the security personnel on the pad, who are there for every launch of every type of vehicle ? etc. etc. etc.


Yes, there certainly were a lot of eyes about.


Soon your 500,000 people who kept this big secret whittles down to a very small number that could have been easily contained.


Really? How do you come to that conclusion? More importantly, why would anyone go through all the effort? It would be easier just to go to the Moon. (Now you've got me repeating myself!)




edit on 10-3-2011 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-3-2011 by DJW001 because: Edit to correct formatting.

edit on 10-3-2011 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 05:09 AM
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hi all,
Good to see the debate still going.
Golden fleece you should hang around, this thread is more of a laugh the more of us here.
Bless you FooS for all your bad research and failure to address certain questions, that if answered might strengthen your position, you do, in my opinion, come up with the basis of interesting theories... and then usually blow it by expanding too much.
But I like your discovery of more doctored NASA photos, strange anomalies with timings and that odd exposure sticker. I agree its strange to put a sticker on there... why?
Your recent shadow anomaly photo of astronaut with a crazy amount of arrows on it was confusing and didn't, to me, show any proof of conflicting light sources, just uneven terrain and the like.

But it did remind to look for this photo, which I apologise if it has been brought up on this thread, but which I saw recently in another thread.




Where is the sun in relation to this pic? To me it could be in numerous positions, and there do seem to be very conflicting shadows. I'm not an expert and perhaps the sun is right above us , giving the strange anomalies in shadow directions. To me the conflicts jump out ... but if you want me to draw arrows all over it i can.

I found this photo at www.sciencephoto.com/images/download_lo_res.html?id=833800280
It is labelled:


Lunar landscape S380/280 Rights Managed Caption: Lunar landscape. Basalt rocks littering the south rim of the Camelot crater, in the valley of Taurus-Littrow, on the surface of the Moon. The rocks were ejected from underlying lava flows by the impact that formed Camelot about 70 million years ago. Photographed during the Apollo 17 mission of 1972 (7-19 December).


How would one go about finding the original of this in NASA archives? I tried googling s380/280 to no avail. I am always impressed by the research people on both sides of the fence do to explain their beliefs, this is why I admire Jarrah despite his flaws. But how does one locate a certain photo or image like this one... ??

I can't wait for the eight hours myself! Bring it on JW.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 05:38 AM
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reply to post by manmental
 



How would one go about finding the original of this in NASA archives? I tried googling s380/280 to no avail. I am always impressed by the research people on both sides of the fence do to explain their beliefs, this is why I admire Jarrah despite his flaws. But how does one locate a certain photo or image like this one... ??


Sheer perseverance. First you go to the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal. Then you click on the link to each film magazine. At the top of each page is a link to a "contact sheet" showing all the scans in low definition. You have to browse through that looking for a picture that looks like the one you're looking for. Copy down its number, then look for the high definition scan. That's why etiquette demands that posters always present a link to the photos they post.
edit on 10-3-2011 by DJW001 because: Edit to correct typo.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 06:26 AM
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reply to post by DJW001
 


Thanks DJ.. that link to the thumbnails is very badly labelled. I would have missed that.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by wmd_2008
 



Well I suggest YOU read up on how the enhancement is done before YOU make any assumptions!


Exactly WHAT assumptions did I make ?? Do tell..

I merely quoted facts in that post regarding the pics..


Oh come on bib in round about terms you are claiming the enhancement is wrong thats why I said to read up on how its done!



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by manmental
 


I see you are just trying to "see" and find "flaws" in photos, just because they were taken on the Moon....but, you don't even try to understand the circumstances and details (lens focal length, for example).

In fact, you could replicate that scene (pretty close) here on Earth....if you're so het up about the "shadows".

Oh, and hey, look through any number of Spirit of Opportunity Rover pics from Mars.


You guys' so-called "arguments" are destroyed very quickly.......but, all suffer from such a biased mind-set, I doubt any of you will ever understand.....


"There are three kinds of Moon 'hoax' believers: The confused, the gullible and the profiteer."
edit on 10 March 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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Here's a little news story about the "ACTUAL" Dutch Moon rock.
Translation in the text below the video.
www.youtube.com...



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by Facefirst
Here's a little news story about the "ACTUAL" Dutch Moon rock.
Translation in the text below the video.
www.youtube.com...



No, they don't mention the card and the fake rock at all. It's all about the dangers of moondust, which is so fine that it can penetrate a human lung easily. And it's about the flags, which were on board the LM in 1969



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by webstra

Originally posted by Facefirst
Here's a little news story about the "ACTUAL" Dutch Moon rock.
Translation in the text below the video.
www.youtube.com...



No, they don't mention the card and the fake rock at all. It's all about the dangers of moondust, which is so fine that it can penetrate a human lung easily. And it's about the flags, which were on board the LM in 1969


From what I've been able to gather, the video was filmed before the moon rock issue.
So, if they had the moon rock, then what did the former Dutch PM have?



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by SayonaraJupiter
 



What's going through Gene Cernan's mind: These sunglasses went to the moon with me in 1972. Sell them. They have no sentimental value to me or my family. I was issued these sunglasses by NASA via taxpayer dollars and I now choose to sell them to the highest bidder for a personal gain.


I don't know his personal situation so I can't comment..
The rest of your post I agree with..
No one in this thread except JW are known..
Others just say what experience they have and expect us to swallow it..


The IRONY of your post is lost on you
Lets see this thread is based on mostly photographic and some video evidence and since some members are keen to pro photgraphers I would say that they are QUALIFIED to comment unlike JW Foosm ppk55 and even yourself because you dont have a clue about even the most basic concepts of photography, although to give YOU some credit at least you have understood and agreed with some of the answers.

I mean look at Foosm's picture with all the arrows on it, I had a good laugh at that he did not have a clue about how shadows worked on that picture.

We give evidence to PROVE JW is wrong with links etc to show the science behind it but Foosm just goes of on a tangent and picks something we have gone over 20,50,100 pages before and rehashes.

So bib what would be good enough proof for You!



posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 04:55 AM
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reply to post by wmd_2008
 


Do you have comprehension problems ??

You may say your an astronaut but I have no proof of that..
We at least know who JW is..

That's ALL I said...
Bit boring seeing you argue about things that were NOT said..
Time to grow up mate..



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