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Young Aussie genius whipping NASA in Moon Hoax Debate!

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posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by Tomblvd
 


Thank you.....often, it is SO obvious to me, I forget to add every last detail. such as that one!!


It is the on-going difficulty with people's perceptions, based on what they know (like, example...airplanes in an atmosphere) and most common Science Fiction depiction (for example, Star Wars) that incorrectly depict the physics of spacecraft maneuvering....to make them appear to be "flying" through space. These impressions are seared into people's psyches, and some have a hard time with the spatial reasoning abilities, to visualize the reality.....




posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 



In answer: That was a scenario that was available as a contingency, should a major CME or other strong-enough eruption have occurred that was aimed in the Earth/Moon direction, during any of the Apollo missions. It never became a necessity, as has BEEN SHOWN (and ignored by a certain other member, repeatedly).



Excellent post WW If I could give you an applause I would!



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 11:33 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 11:41 AM
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These are from a series of videos addressing Jarrah White's claims:

Introduction:
www.youtube.com...

1st Video:
www.youtube.com...
edit on 30-12-2010 by Facefirst because: content



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:14 PM
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Just to make it exceptionally clear

Any further examples deemed to be:

- Off Topic

- Uncivil (that includes calling people pathetic, calling their reasoning pathetic, any snide remarks etc...you're all smart enough to know when your replies are 'loaded' so don't play innocent...

- Anything like the above


...and your reply will be X-Posted, not Off-Topiced, not Mannered, gone...incurring a large point penalty.

YOU WILL ALSO BE TEMPORARILY POSTBANNED.


*editted to add:
I certainly appreciate that these discussions can become frustrating at times, and the desire to just break your keyboard over someones head quite great...


Please don't. You do yourselves and your viewpoints no favours by going down that route.


Enough means enough guys...



Thanks

edit on 30-12-2010 by alien because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by ppk55
 


??


The video above is about how the Russians were able to keep a secret as big as the apollo myth...


Just to clarify....(and, I hope you understand the great will of effort it takes to NOT snap at that crack, there...the "apollo myth" dig...)..what was the point of that particular "Jarrah White" video? That the USSR space program, going along in tandem with the U.S. space program, was more "secretive". Is that about the gist?

Well, of course it isn't any surprise that, in a closed society as existed back then, the USSR were able to operate without much scrutiny by the outside world. Have you forgotten the situation, back then, in terms of the technological means of espionage? Sheesh.....satellites were rare, for conducting photographic surveillance (remember the U-2 "spy plane" incident, with Gary Powers? THAT was the "state-of-the-art" back then...of course, in the early 1960s, the next stage of "spy plane" was developed, the SR-71 "Blackbird"...it remained secret for a long time. Still, its ability to collect Intel was very limited, compared to a satellite potential).

You see, here is yet another example of a "logical fallacy".....so, so commonly used by Jarrah White as an M.O. in his videos, and apparently its effectiveness manages to fool many, many people who don's seem to recognize when they've been conned by it.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Tomblvd
 


Thank you.....often, it is SO obvious to me, I forget to add every last detail. such as that one!!


It is the on-going difficulty with people's perceptions, based on what they know (like, example...airplanes in an atmosphere) and most common Science Fiction depiction (for example, Star Wars) that incorrectly depict the physics of spacecraft maneuvering....to make them appear to be "flying" through space. These impressions are seared into people's psyches, and some have a hard time with the spatial reasoning abilities, to visualize the reality.....


That's very interesting Weedwhacker when you say "These impressions are seared into people's psyches..." because that is exactly how NASA television created the "strong delusion" of Apollo landing. Add to this the loss or destruction of original source data, the "enhancement" of video by a start up company in Hollywood...
Add to this 40 years of NASA space "history" that is broadcast by the networks repeatedly over 40 years, in schools, in school text books... So when you say "These impressions are seared into people's psyches..." you are correctly describing the situation of political propaganda and media control techniques utilized by the CIA and the Military Industrial Complex to "win" the race to the moon by 1970. All hyped up Apollo events occurred after James Webb was ousted. Nixon won the election of '68 and all Apollo landings took place under Nixon.

Add to this the very "strong delusion" of "impressions seared into people's psyches..." the tragedy of RFK, MLK, Tet Offensive, we have the makings of a psychological mindf--k perpetrated on the population of the United States of America at the hands of mass media television... the most complete form of mind control on the planet.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter


That's very interesting Weedwhacker when you say "These impressions are seared into people's psyches..." because that is exactly how NASA television created the "strong delusion" of Apollo landing. Add to this the loss or destruction of original source data, the "enhancement" of video by a start up company in Hollywood...
Add to this 40 years of NASA space "history" that is broadcast by the networks repeatedly over 40 years, in schools, in school text books... So when you say "These impressions are seared into people's psyches..." you are correctly describing the situation of political propaganda and media control techniques utilized by the CIA and the Military Industrial Complex to "win" the race to the moon by 1970. All hyped up Apollo events occurred after James Webb was ousted. Nixon won the election of '68 and all Apollo landings took place under Nixon.


As usual, you assert all of this without ANY EVIDENCE.

And can you explain what Nixon had to do with any sort of hoax?



Add to this the very "strong delusion" of "impressions seared into people's psyches..." the tragedy of RFK, MLK, Tet Offensive, we have the makings of a psychological mindf--k perpetrated on the population of the United States of America at the hands of mass media television... the most complete form of mind control on the planet.


And you still have yet to produce any scientist from a relevant field that doubts the Apollo missions happened.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by SayonaraJupiter
 


Are your legs tired, by any chance? Your indications of making so many leaps, in only one post, would suggest at perhaps a charley horse or shin splint developing, if you're not careful.....




That's very interesting Weedwhacker when you say "These impressions are seared into people's psyches..." because that is exactly how NASA television created the "strong delusion" of Apollo landing.


Errrrrmmmmmmm......huh??? This, you assert, follows logically because....?? Why, and how again?

So, now it's "NASA television"? Wow.

Nevermind that the hundreds (thousands?) of hours of combination film/video recordings, not to mention the audio too. PLUS the thousands of still film photos, from the Hassies. ALL of which is irrefutable, and historical, and a documentation of ACTUAL EVENTS, to be referred to again and again, for many years to come.

And, you call that a "delusion"?? At least, when people go to the cinema, they (hopefully) know that what they are viewing on the screen is the end result of a purely fictional, creative and technological process that is loads and loads different from documenting events as they occur, in real time. Only vaguely similar creature IS the actual "documentary" genre of film or video making. In which case, that genre, naturally the terms "purely fictional" don't apply. "Creative" still does, though, in the sense that truly, MOST real life, real history, real events are quite dull, as they transpire in real time.

Anyone who has, forgive me, had to smile and nod and endure hours and hours of someone else's "home movies" from their last vacation, or their little monster's...ermm...child's last birthday party, will know that as an example. Documentaries that chronicle actual events, therefore, tend to be injected with some "creativity" in the sense of production style, and presentation. the FACTS remain unaltered, in proper historical documentaries.

SO....the events of Apollo?? FACTS. DOCUMENTED. And, on an hour-by-hour real time basis, for the most part incredibly boring and dull -- except to an elite few who lap that sort of techno-geeky stuff up for breakfast.

Compared to a plethora of schlock popular fiction...some much better than others, of course...and that could have its own thread, to tell the truth.......

Now, this is yet more of your "spinmeister" technique on full display...(you can break an ankle, if you're not careful...):


Add to this the loss or destruction of original source data, the "enhancement" of video by a start up company in Hollywood...


Lying about "destruction of original source data" so cavalierly isn't very impressive. Continuing the FALSE assertions RE: the topic discussed previously? Even a worse crime.


___

Add to this 40 years of NASA space "history" that is broadcast by the networks repeatedly over 40 years, in schools, in school text books...


Why do you think it has been presented as "history"?? BECAUSE IT IS!!!!

Very ineffective attempt, there. You only delude yourself, and a few others who don't bother to lift their heads out of the muck, and (apparently) the "Church of Jarrah", and do their own digging, and proper research, in order to clear away the cobwebs of misinformation.

___

....when you say "These impressions are seared into people's psyches..." you are correctly describing the situation of political propaganda and media control techniques utilized by the CIA and the Military Industrial Complex to "win" the race to the moon by 1970.


Wow! THAT does go off the deep end, into the bin labeled: _______________ (I can't type the label-will leave it to your imagination).

___
Even more, someone needs to READ A REAL BOOK on the history of the U.S. Space Program!!:


All hyped up Apollo events occurred after James Webb was ousted. Nixon won the election of '68 and all Apollo landings took place under Nixon.


NIXON had zero to do with it!!! He was the friggin' ENEMY of the Space Program!!!!! He hated it. HATED IT! HATED IT! (It took money away from what he thought were more "useful" endeavors. Like, Vietnam.....BTW....THAT is your so-called "deception", via political propaganda, if ever there was one!!
You have your "demons" askew, there..... )

___
Now, sorry but, this is just rambling, unconnected and relates to Apollo in NO WAY AT ALL:


Add to this the very "strong delusion" of "impressions seared into people's psyches..." the tragedy of RFK, MLK, Tet Offensive, we have the makings of a psychological mindf--k perpetrated on the population of the United States of America at the hands of mass media television... the most complete form of mind control on the planet.



Not to continue to the land of "off-topics", but....WOW!!!! Just, wow.....

I think someone needs to have some more education on some history, and delve more into the reality of what happened, in the past, rather than the sort of odd-colored-glasses versions that must have invaded YOUR "psyche"....to be that cynical, and gullible so that you absorb every "alternate" and nutty theory, no matter how wild?

Just how many so-called "deep, dark conspiracies" can be carried off simultaneously, like that, for roughly half a century?? With NO "death bed confessions" in the intervening years??

Stunning.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 09:05 PM
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I heartily urge everyone to view the following video:

Unlike certain posters, I am hereby warning you that it contains extremely foul language. Parental discretion is advised. There are certain key points that need to be witnessed before my rebuttal in about twelve hours.... you know, just in case Jarrah decides to "improve" it in the interim. Good night, and "Happy New Year" in the appropriate time zones.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 10:33 PM
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Thank you Weedwhacker: I bought a copy of Apollo 13 and From the Earth to the Moon got it brand new at FYI for nine bucks on sale lol.. it was really good.. and you know what I found out there was a cover up in NASA lol.. not what people think... It was I think the company name was AM Gen taking the Rap for NASA and claiming a whole filing cabniet they know nothing about. that was full of memos to nasa begging them not to do tests which led to the Apollo 1 fire.. also learned that one of my favorite astro's died Guss Grissium sad man.. I learned a hell of a lot over the last four to five days watching that whole lot. thanks for bringing it up



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by DJW001
 


The arrogance of that clown is astonishing. Somehow, he has bestowed upon himself the qualifications necessary to interpret decades of research and complex radiation data - the life work and labor of others, and declare his ignorant conclusions as de facto proof. If anyone disagrees, then they are in on the conspiracy.
Why should anyone give that creep any consideration whatsoever?



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by Smack
 


Yrs, I agree, Once again: everyone view the video. This thread ends with the new year.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by SayonaraJupiter
 


Are your legs tired, by any chance? Your indications of making so many leaps, in only one post, would suggest at perhaps a charley horse or shin splint developing, if you're not careful.....


All hyped up Apollo events occurred after James Webb was ousted. Nixon won the election of '68 and all Apollo landings took place under Nixon.


NIXON had zero to do with it!!! He was the friggin' ENEMY of the Space Program!!!!! He hated it. HATED IT! HATED IT! (It took money away from what he thought were more "useful" endeavors. Like, Vietnam.....BTW....THAT is your so-called "deception", via political propaganda, if ever there was one!!
You have your "demons" askew, there..... )


Weedwhacker, nice try. "The President held an interplanetary conversation with Apollo 11 Astronauts, Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin on the Moon." --President Richard Nixon's Daily Diary, July 20, 1969


Nixon didn't hate the space program. He knew it was first and foremost a propaganda program so he used it for propaganda because that was the only thing Apollo really achieved.


...on more than a dozen occasions after the first moonwalk Nixon reminisced about the landing and the effect he thought it made on people's perceptions of both his foreign and domestic policies. In addition, Nixon also made it a habit to speak with the crews of each space mission before they departed, and he often invited them to the Oval Office to chat about their mission after they returned. Source nixontapes.org...



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 07:03 AM
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Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Smack
 


Yrs, I agree, Once again: everyone view the video. This thread ends with the new year.


I know many of you would love to see this end, but it wont.
Unless its forced.

JW is preparing to release more videos.
New information is being revealed.
And many persons who have been sitting on the fence, are now
realizing that Apollo is a mythical god and space program by reading
the information provided in this thread.

Maybe its better for you to say that this thread ends for you.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by FoosM
 


Maybe him saying that the thread will end is his way of conceding defeat and being out of the debate which he feels he cannot win. Why stick around for such a debate?

Anyhow, those new videos by White are pretty good. Jarrah white destroyed that one guy, Phil Webb.

To be fair, Webb does seem much less intelligent that White and doesn't seem to be as honest, so he will always be at a disadvantage there. And not as many people view his videos, but that probably has to do with their quality. But did you see how Webb dodges the questions posed by Jarrah? He comes across as disingenuous when h does that.

Anyhoo, it just seems like Webb is punching above his weight by trying to take on White.

Nevertheless, White did use the opportunities presented by Webb to address many of the radiation issues that have been raised recently by the Apollo defenders. That was nice of him.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by SayonaraJupiter
 


Oh, don't be ridiculous! Is this something you never knew before, until you looked it up?:


"The President held an interplanetary conversation with Apollo 11 Astronauts, Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin on the Moon." --President Richard Nixon's Daily Diary, July 20, 1969


That is EXACTLY what any President would have done! Did he make the "phone call" (radio phone patch) and a public spectacle...a "Public Relations" spectacle out of every other crew?? Calling them during their mission, at any time??

What rubbish when you write this:


Nixon didn't hate the space program. He knew it was first and foremost a propaganda program so he used it for propaganda because that was the only thing Apollo really achieved.



The "only thing" it "really achieved"? What a daft thing to say. Go read some history books....

This is very typical of the "conspiracy mindset", and is seen not only in "Jarrah White"s behaviour, and others, but here as well:

You are desperately wriggling, trying so very hard to twist the facts to your ludicrous assertion that the entire Apollo Program was a "hoax"...and now, you are taking even MORE things out of context, trying to include Nixon either as the beneficiary, or instigator, or whatever the feverished imagination will create....

IF Nixon thought that he "benefited" so much from this alleged Apollo "deception", due to the alleged "propaganda"...then, he would have FOUGHT HARD to keep it going, yes?? Apparently, you haven't read (or refuse to pay attention to) the actual facts of that era, and the PUBLIC'S unhappiness with the amount of money being spent!! Some darn good "propaganda", huh?? When the public is saying it's too expensive??

Nixon hated the expense, thought it was a waste of money. (BTW....THAT is yet another point. A "hoax" is a hell of a lot cheaper than actually doing the damn thing!!!)


Here, people at NASA had some grand plans, and hopes for the future. The infrastructure was already in place, the suppliers and contractors were tooled up, the production lines could have kept operating, amortizing out the Research & Development costs over time....and creating new and better technologies along the way, but NO! Nixon would have none of it....he caved to the "concerns" of the expense, and decided to go for what was "promised" to be cheaper (ultimately, a grossly optimistic prediction):


In mid-1969, as the Apollo missions were reaching their climax, NASA managers began to plan for the next phase of lunar exploration. This optimistic plan, issued by the Space Task Group, would have had NASA’s funding stay at Apollo levels, and, in a series of steps that followed Apollo, would have seen NASA develop such elements as a lunar orbit station in 1978, a lunar surface base in 1980, and a manned mission to Mars in 1981 or 1983. President Nixon rejected the ambitious Space Task Group plan, choosing instead to develop the infamous, loved and hated space shuttle.


www.thespacereview.com...

An interesting blog called "alternatehistory"--- If Nixon Never Cancels Apollo:

www.alternatehistory.com...



President Richard M. Nixon canceled the Apollo program. Two brand new Saturn V launch vehicles were impaled on spikes in front of Johnson Space Center and Kennedy Space Center. A further twelve Saturn I launch vehicles were scrapped to parts. Nixon viewed the space program as a Kennedy-Johnson program and had no qualms about throwing it on the scrap heap in the most malicious way. It was a trauma that will forever affect the psyche of NASA. With the Apollo program gone, NASA scrambled to propose a national reusable launch vehicle system to give the organization a sinecure as America's State Airline for Space.


web.wt.net...


I'm betting that you're too young to have the slightest impression of that era....and of the historical significance.




edit on 31 December 2010 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by FoosM
 



I know many of you would love to see this end, but it wont.
Unless its forced.


That's up to the Mods, of course.


JW is preparing to release more videos.
New information is being revealed.
And many persons who have been sitting on the fence, are now
realizing that Apollo is a mythical god and space program by reading
the information provided in this thread.


You make him sound like Julian Assange. New information will be revealed in this very post that will hopefully push people off their fence. Emperor Jarrah Augustus is about to have his nakedness exposed.

FoosM has demanded that we watch Jarrah Whites videos, insisting that they make some sort of "case" against the historical reality of the Apollo program. In an earlier post, I demonstrated that his "Radiation Anomalies II, part 1" video in no way supported his claims. It consisted of a random series of facts without a cohesive logical connection. Not one of his supporters has addressed this fact, so I will assume that you all agree with me.

"Radiation Anomalies II part 2" is different: it contains outright lies that might make for a convincing argument if they were true. But he cannot prove his case without resorting to deception, the facts and reason are simply against him.

Let us review this video through the eyes of a skeptic, one who does not take claims on face value, but who researches them thoroughly and looks for signs of contradiction. The video more or less begins with an attack on Professor Van Allen. In an attempt to justify himself against charges of "quote mining" he shows the entirety of an e-mail sent by the late professor. Using a technique beloved by propagandists and "main stream media," he keeps the camera moving around so that the viewer cannot read it for themselves. Here, let's fix that. Read the entirety of this e-mail and see if you can find any of the contradictions Jarrah implies are there:

There is a more readable version of it here. I don't see any contradictions, do you? But then, Jarrah didn't exactly say there were. To convey that impression, he allows others to speak for Professor Van Allen. Before we move on, note that Professor Van Allen mentions that the craft spent 15 minutes traversing the worst part of the belt and about two hours in the less dangerous parts. He estimates that the astronauts would receive about 1% of a fatal dose. Remember that number, it will come into play later.

In order to convey the impression that Van Allen was hiding something or reversing himself, Jarrah reaches into his propagandist's bag of tricks and pulls out the old standard: "voice over and photo montage." Jarrah loves that one because it triggers associations in the brain that distract from critical thought. The voice over is an angry, expletive filled account of Van Allen's early research. That the narrator ends with a tortured "how can you take this... to your grave" suggests he may have had issues of his own. The next mouthpiece Jarrah selects to speak for Professor Van Allen is "Media Bypass Magazine." I will leave it to the skeptical reader to examine the colorful history of this source and evaluate its credibility on their own. For our current purposes, suffice to say that the "interview" scarcely uses Allen's own words at all, but rather paraphrases and ascribes feelings and motives to him. Again, classic propaganda technique: rather than let the reader judge for themselves, paraphrase and shape their opinion.

Yet another montage that implies that Van Allen had somehow reversed himself. Yes, Jarrah, there have been literally thousands of spacecraft that confirmed Professor Van Allen's early research. The ERB's are dangerous. Why repeat yourself like that? Ah yes, another propaganda classic: hypnosis. Keep repeating the words over and over again until the message sinks into the subconscious without critical processing. It's what he claims others do.

Next, he reads some technical issues of interest to people who are planning the rest of their lives actually living in space. Literally the rest of their lives, en route to another solar system. They need to take the radiation environment very seriously indeed. Nevertheless, their information is quite good... it just doesn't matter so much if you're only going to tool around the neighborhood for ten days. In an attempt to refute charges that he probably doesn't understand the graph, he reads the chart out loud. Yes, but was does the graph actually mean. Jarrah? What does "radiation shielding in grams per cubic centimeter" actually mean? Why is it measured in units of water? How does this measurement apply to other shielding materials, like aluminum? Why a "radiation spectrum?" Do different materials shield different regions of the spectrum differently? To be fair, Jarrah might understand the graph, but he does nothing to help anyone else understand the graph. Clearly, education is not one of his priorities, showing off is. When Jay Windley had the intellectual honesty to admit that he was "not qualified" to pass judgement on something, Jarrah mocked him for it.

Moving along, we come to the most compelling moment in the video. Jarrah talks numbers and cites sources, an appeal to the intellect at last. And the results are truly shocking: using the legitimate data of a highly respected researcher, Jarrah proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that the radiation in the Van Allen Belts (or Earth Radiation Belts as Russians prefer to call them for some reason) is so lethal that the lunar astronauts could not possibly have survived. If this were true, the "radiation argument" carries the field. The astronauts could not possibly have gone to the Moon; if something is false or intentionally misleading, it is nothing more than a hoax; I'm sure we can all agree with that.

Even more astonishing, Jarrah had made a coherent argument: premise, evidence, conclusion...everything! Jarrah uses a table from this paper by noted Russian radiation researcher E. E. Kovalev:

Using this table he calculates that each astronaut would have received a dose of over 666,000 rem!

Yes, the math checked out. Using that table, Jarrah had proven that astronauts could not have survived the ERB's and that "Apollo was a hoax."

Being a skeptic, of course, I had no choice but to... dig a little deeper. As this post is getting a trifle long, I will pause here to go to the gym before it closes early for New Years. To be continued.
edit on 31-12-2010 by DJW001 because: Edit to correct formatting.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by DJW001


FoosM has demanded that we watch Jarrah Whites videos, insisting that they make some sort of "case" against the historical reality of the Apollo program. In an earlier post, I demonstrated that his "Radiation Anomalies II, part 1" video in no way supported his claims. It consisted of a random series of facts without a cohesive logical connection. Not one of his supporters has addressed this fact, so I will assume that you all agree with me.

"Radiation Anomalies II part 2" is different: it contains outright lies that might make for a convincing argument if they were true. But he cannot prove his case without resorting to deception, the facts and reason are simply against him.



Very well done DJ. Anyone who can honestly watch JW's video and then look at that letter and not find Jarrah completely contemptible is beyond help.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 02:39 PM
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I read the first part of your analysis of JW's video.
But I find it rife with misinterpretations.
I'm also curious why you use words and phrases like:
demanded
outright lies
attack

Anyway, so the first part of your analysis has to do with JW's analysis of Van Allen's comments.

You correctly state that:


I don't see any contradictions, do you? But then, Jarrah didn't exactly say there were.


Ok... so what is the problem?

Next you take issue with JW's analysis of radiation numbers associated with the VAB.
And you state:


Yes, the math checked out. Using that table, Jarrah had proven that astronauts could not have survived the ERB's and that "Apollo was a hoax."




Can't wait for part two.



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