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Young Aussie genius whipping NASA in Moon Hoax Debate!

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posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 08:38 AM
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reply to post by SayonaraJupiter
 


"Joe Rogan"?? And, his area of expertise is what, again? Oh, yeah....comedy and acting!

Wiki article for Joe Rogan. Please read in full.....


Joe Rogan (born August 11, 1967) is an American comedian, actor and color commentator for the Ultimate Fighting Championship.

Rogan is also known for his role as Joe Garrelli in NewsRadio and as host on the TV game/reality program Fear Factor. He co-hosted the final season of The Man Show and has also hosted CBS's Game Show in My Head. Rogan currently hosts a regular podcast now known as The Joe Rogan Experience.


Comedy. And. Acting.

Yes, indeed. He is JUST as qualified as "Jarrah White (noise)" to pontificate on matters of science, rocketry, space, celestial mechanics, radiation, orbital mechanics, psychology, etc......

Truly, a stunning contribution to the so-called Apollo "hoax" debate.

Well, well done!! Two (//sarc//)
!!!!




posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 05:43 PM
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Let’s now turn our attention to some of the other technology that had to be developed for the Apollo program, beginning with those magic suits. “In the early 1960s, as NASA began training astronauts to meet President Kennedy’s challenge, it realized there was one key area of expertise it knew nothing about. Nobody knew how to build a spacesuit that would enable a human being to survive in the lethal lunar environment.”

So begins Moon Machines: The Space Suit. As previously noted, Alan Shepard had ridden the first manned Mercury capsule into sub-orbit just before Kennedy’s announcement. The Mercury program, launched in 1959, just after the formation of NASA, was America’s first space program. The suits used for that program were, according to both NASA and the talking-heads on the Science Channel, redundant. The capsules provided the astronauts with their first line of defense; the suits were only an emergency back-up that no one was sure would even work.





But now, with Kennedy’s commitment to the Apollo program, our astronauts were going to need suits that provided their first and only line of defense. NASA did not yet have suits that could operate off the ship’s life support systems through umbilical cords (such as would be needed to perform space-walks) and now it needed suits capable of providing fully independent life support. In other words, starting essentially from scratch, NASA was going to have to come up with one of the most technologically advanced spacesuits ever conceived. And it was going to have to do it very quickly.

Eight companies reportedly submitted proposals to NASA for consideration. Almost all were companies that were known within the aerospace industry. One, however, was known for its work in a somewhat different field of endeavor; the International Latex Corporation was best known as the manufacturer of Playtex bras and girdles. Improbably enough though, it would soon be adding Apollo spacesuits to its product line.



In April 1962, NASA awarded the Apollo spacesuit contract to ILC. Hamilton Standard, a company known for manufacturing aircraft propellers, was assigned to oversee the project. ILC quickly put its bra and girdle seamstresses to work cutting and sewing Apollo spacesuits. Meanwhile, Hamilton Standard went to work designing and building the life-support packs, known as PLSS units.





Amazingly enough, the first spacesuits to roll off the line were delivered to NASA for testing in 1963. ILC had designed and built the suits in just over a year. Unfortunately though, they had a major flaw: astronauts testing them quickly overheated in the Florida sun, which is roughly 160° F cooler than the surface of the Moon. NASA issued an ultimatum to Hamilton Standard: solve the cooling problem and do it immediately or the contract would be cancelled.





The solution was to design a water-cooled undergarment. By early 1964, just two years after the awarding of the contract, the redesigned suits were being shipped to NASA for testing. NASA, however, was still not impressed with what Hamilton and ILC had come up with. The suits were deemed to be too heavy, extremely difficult to move around in, and intensely uncomfortable to wear even for short durations.

In the fall of 1964, NASA canceled the contracts with both ILC and Hamilton Standard. With just five years left to fulfill Kennedy’s dream, NASA had no working spacesuits and no contract with anyone to design and build working spacesuits. After briefly experimenting with so-called ‘hard suits,’ NASA decided in the spring of 1965 to reopen the bidding on the spacesuit contract. Both Hamilton and ILC again submitted proposals, and again the contract was awarded to the makers of Playtex bras. Hamilton was awarded a separate contract to design and build the life support packs.



Just weeks after NASA awarded those contracts, Gemini astronaut Ed White allegedly became the first American to perform a space-walk, despite the fact that NASA did not yet appear to have a suit that would allow for such a maneuver. Nevertheless, on June 3, 1965, White allegedly performed a successful 22-minute EVA (extra-vehicular activity, in NASA jargon) which was yet another “We can do it too!” response to the Soviet Union’s first space-walk.





The Gemini space suit is a space suit worn by astronauts for launch, in-flight activities (including EVAs) and landing. It was designed by NASA based on the X-15high-altitude pressure suit, and has been used since Gemini, in various forms, by the U.S. Air Force and NASA
The G3C and G4C suits were the primary spacesuits worn for all but the Gemini 7 mission. The G3C consisted of six layers of nylon (the innermost containing a rubberized nylon "bladder") and nomex, with a link net retaining layer and an outer layer of white nomex fabric. It had removable combat-style boots, also made of nomex fabric, along with a full-pressure helmet (containing a set of earphones and microphones) and gloves detachable by improved locking rings that allow easy rotation of the wrists. On Gemini 3 the G3C suit was worn by both Gus Grissom and John W. Young and was the only flight to use this suit.
The G4C suit was identical to the G3C suit, but came in two different styles. Both had additional layers of mylar insulation for temperature control (+250°F in direct sunlight and -250°F in shadow), but the commander's suit retained the removable boots, while the pilot's version had integrated boots and a detachable sun visor which clipped onto the helmet. The G4C suit was worn by all crews from Gemini 4 to its end and it was in this suit that Ed White made the first American spacewalk in 1965.



As astronaut Gene Cernan recalled, Leonov’s space-walk on March 18, 1965 “shocked a lot of people. It caught us totally unexpected, and, you know, we were just barely flying in space in our own little capsules. They weren’t even big enough to be called spaceships.” Indeed, the United States hadn’t yet gotten its first two-man capsule into space. The Mercury program, which had ended nearly two years earlier, had only gotten four single-occupancy capsules into orbit. NASA’s plan had been to attempt a space-walk on the fourth manned Gemini flight, and it had not yet gotten the first Gemini capsule off the ground.





NASA’s plan apparently changed rather abruptly and a few days before the launch of Gemini 4, which was only the second manned Gemini mission (the first having completed just three orbits), it was announced that White would be performing an EVA while Jim McDivitt piloted the capsule. According to astronaut Frank Borman, “NASA scrambled around kind of hurriedly and, in my estimation, without a great deal of safety factor, had Ed go EVA on Gemini 4.”

As McDivitt recalled, “Our EVA was very confidential at the time. We had not announced we were gonna do this, and we were doing all of our training at night, and only a group of maybe 30 or 40 people even knew we were gonna try it.” Translated from NASA-speak, what that very likely means is that a select group worked covertly with the astronauts to fake the space-walk footage prior to the launch of Gemini 4.


Notably, NASA did not attempt the maneuver again for an entire year, until June 3, 1966, despite the fact that four Gemini capsules were launched during the intervening year and those four spent a combined total of twenty-three days in low-Earth orbit. Yet none of those four crews, it would appear, had time to practice space-walking, even though practicing and perfecting EVAs was one of the primary goals of the Gemini program. Not even Frank Borman and Jim Lovell, who spent nearly two weeks orbiting Earth in a tiny capsule with virtually nothing to do for the majority of their mission, had time to perform a space-walk.

It was not until Gemini 9 that NASA attempted to duplicate White’s alleged performance. But that ‘second’ space-walk, by Gene Cernan, was by all accounts a complete failure that almost cost Cernan his life. Problems began almost immediately, with Cernan’s heart rate at times soaring as high as 170. His visor became fogged, leaving him blinded and disoriented. His breathing was labored and he was sweating profusely. Doctors on the ground monitoring the situation feared he would not make it back in alive and would have to be cut loose.



The next two EVA attempts, by Michael Collins aboard Gemini 10 and Richard Gordon aboard Gemini 11, were failures as well. As 1966 was drawing to a close, three astronauts in a row had failed to replicate what Ed White had supposedly easily accomplished over a year earlier. But then, in November 1966, a year-and-a-half after White’s alleged space-walk, none other than Buzz Aldrin performed a wildly successful EVA during the Gemini 12 mission. Aldrin had come through just in time – Gemini 12 was the last Gemini mission.





After the ending of Gemini, the Gemini space suit was chosen by NASA for the initial Apollo "Block I" testing phase of the program. Since no dockings or EVAs were scheduled for the first manned Apollo flight, and with NASA searching for a suitable lunar EVA suit for the "Block II" phase of the program (a competition between ILC Dover, Hamilton Sundstrand, and David Clark), NASA decided to use the G3C as a base for the new "A1C" suit. Using the base G3C suit, but with a white nomex cover layer from the G4C and G5C suits, the new A1C suits had new electrical and environmental disconnects, a protective shell over the plexiglas visor (plexiglas was used instead of polycarbonate due to its expense), and with a launch escape system in place of ejector seats, a yellow-colored U-shaped inflatable "Mae West" PFD replaced the pilot parachute and its harness. Unfortunately, the Apollo 1 accident, which killed astronauts Grissom, White, and Roger Chaffee resulted in NASA cancelling the "Block I" program and starting with the flight of Apollo 7, all Apollo equipment, including spacesuits, was tested using the "Block II" configuration. This included the docking equipment on the Apollo CM and the ILC A7L space suit.


In sum, the Gemini program resulted in one faked EVA, three failed EVAs, and one presumably successful EVA. Even if we give the agency every benefit of the doubt, the record would be three failures and only two successes. And with that impressive record, we were ready to send our guys off on a series of EVAs of a complexity that remains unmatched to this day. Have I mentioned lately, by the way, that America totally kicked ass in the 1960s?

Curiously, the footage of White’s alleged space walk is characterized by the very same slow-motion photographic technique later employed on the alleged Moon missions. The footage released by the Soviets of Leonov’s EVA, on the other hand, does not appear to be slowed down. The logical conclusion to draw, of course, is that moving in slow-motion in space is more a matter of culture than science.





en.wikipedia.org...
www.davesweb.cnchost.com...



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by FoosM
 


How sad.

ALL of that sourced garbage from Dave McGowan??

He's as effed up as "Jarrah White" (noise).

His description of Gene Cernan's mission on Gemini? TOTAL fabrication, and misrepresentation of the facts.

YOU CAN READ CERNAN'S BIOGRAPHY!!! He describes that episode in great detail.

(Speaking of books...haven't read this yet, but I am expecting it will clear up a few things, and why this nonsense "Apollo Hoax" crap gets any attention, whatsoever....The Dumbest Generation: How The Digital Age Stupefies Young Americans....). It focuses on Americans, obviously....but the affliction of stupidity isn't isolated to this country....).

And, McGowan is equally vile, wrong and shows himself to be an utter idiot, in the rest of his rant...especially about Ed White's EVA.





A short clip of the USSR's first EVA on orbit, with Cosmonaut Aleksie Leonov:



Just as the Americans experienced, the suits inflated a bit more than expected, making it difficult to get back in.
(Of course the Russians didn't share this info. AND Cernan never got to talk to White about it. It was trouble getting in and BENDING the suit, to wiggle back into the seats...reducing the internal pressure was the ultimate "cure"...Plus, as Cernan recounts in his book, he had to endure an extremely cramped and painful position, wedged as he was....they could engage the hatch latching dogs, than CRANK the hatch further closed. Only AFTER restoring the atmosphere in the Capsule, could Cernan relieve the uncomfortable spot he was in, be deflating his suit fully).

Leonov's story:


Leonov's suit ballooned in the vacuum of space, and it was only by reducing the pressure below safe levels that he got it back down to a size that would allow re-entry to the airlock. I once asked him what he would have said, had he been the first man on the moon. He was most gracious, answering that he could not have said anything better than Neil Armstrong's famous "That's one small step for (a) man, one giant leap for mankind". Alexei Leonov is a true hero and a great artist.


White's experience:


....White came back to the hatch as Gemini IV was passing over the Atlantic, dismounted the camera and removed electrical connections, and handed all these items to McDivitt along with the gun. McDivitt then helped White get settled, pulling on his legs and guiding his feet into the footwells.

White closed the hatch and reached for the handle to lock it. When it failed to catch, he knew it was going to be as hard to close as it had been to open. Pushing on the handle lifted White out of his seat, so McDivitt pulled on him to give him some leverage. Finally White felt a little torque in the handle and yelled for McDivitt to yank harder. The door was latched.

White sat back, physically exhausted, sweat streaming into his eyes and fogging his faceplate. McDivitt also felt tired, so they rested before extending a radio antenna to find a ground-based voice and tell Earth all was well. Carnarvon answered them. The crew of Gemini IV had almost circled the globe in an unpressurized spacecraft.

www.astronautix.com...

Cernan:


Once outside the spacecraft, Cernan did some simple experiments to get the feeling of working in space. He was startled to find that everything took longer than he had assumed it would from his experience in simulations. Cernan said he really had no idea how to work in slow motion at orbital speeds. Every movement of an arm or leg in free space exacted a reaction from his body.Minute forces that would scarcely be noticed in Earth's gravity upset his equilibrium in space. He had only to twitch his fingers to set his body in motion. On Gemini IV, White had commented on the need for handholds. Now Cernan found that even those installed on Spacecraft 9 were inadequate and that the Velcro was not strong enough to keep his body in position as he edged back toward the adapter. He had to fight the limited mobility of his space suit, and the effort taxed his strength. He constantly referred to the umbilical as the "snake." When he let it out to any distance, it was hard to control.

When he finally reached the adapter, some lights that had been installed especially to help him see were not burning. He asked Stafford to turn them on, but only one lit up. Moving around the adapter was no easier than moving around the rest of the spacecraft. Still, he began preparing the maneuvering unit for flight. He attached penlights; opened and checked the nitrogen and oxygen shutoff valves; positioned the sidearm controllers, umbilicals, and restraint harness; attached the AMU tether; turned on the unit's electrical power; and changed over to the electrical umbilical. Everything, just everything, took much longer than he had expected. He kept floating out of control; he simply could not maintain body position. The few footbars, stirrups, and handbars were insufficient for any task that required leverage.

Ten minutes after sunset, Cernan's faceplate began to fog, so he rested. But here there could be no such thing as complete relaxation because of the tendency to drift away. He went back to work, but his visor soon fogged again. After the next sunrise, the moisture lessened. As soon as he moved about, it returned. Strangely, he felt neither hot nor cold - his only problems were this fogged visor and tasks that had to be done with one hand when he really needed two.

When 80 percent of his work was finished, Cernan again had to stop and rest. Like a mountain climber with a backpack, he sat down in the maneuvering unit and found his most peaceful moment in this strange environment. Body molded to the seat, feet against a footbar, and arms atop the handbars, he enjoyed a taste of comfort for the first time since he started this stroll outside. The flight passed into darkness, but by the light in the adapter Cernan could tell just how occluded his faceplate had become.

He began to wonder whether to go on with EVA. Mentally, he ticked off the checklist items that remained: strap in, change to the AMU oxygen lead, start breathing oxygen from the unit's supply, and free his personal transportation from the spacecraft adapter. Cernan knew, from repeated experience in zero-g training flights, that he could do these tasks blindfolded. But then what? he thought. "So you make the connections . . . if you can't see, you can't very well go out there and fly because you don't know what to expect." And if he flew the maneuvering unit, anyway? He could finish putting it on, he knew, because he was restrained in the adapter. But when the time came to take it off, he would be standing in free space. Could he take it off with one hand, while holding onto the spacecraft with the other? Would it be wise to try that when he couldn't see? Much better to end the exercise now, he thought. So he and Stafford decided to cancel the rest of the EVA,and Mission Control agreed.

Carefully, Cernan eased himself out of his comfortable seat, leaving his sun visor up to see if that might help defog his faceplate. At sunrise, he detached the AMU's electrical umbilical and connected his spacecraft lifeline. Still almost blind, he groped his way out of the adapter and back along the spacecraft to the cockpit. He slid into the hatch and stood there a few moments. Stafford held on to Cernan's legs so he could rest. Slowly his faceplate began to clear in the center, giving him a narrow range of vision. He tried to retrieve an externally mounted mirror that the command pilot had used to watch what was going on behind the cockpit. As Cernan wrestled with the mirror, his suit's cooling system became overtaxed, causing him to get extremely hot for the first time. His faceplate again fogged up completely. Stafford helped Cernan in and, together, they closed the hatch and started pressurizing the cabin. With their helmets almost touching, Stafford still could not see Cernan through the faceplate. The extravehicular exercise had lasted for 128 minutes instead of the planned 167; fogging had started 63 minutes after hatch opening.


Like I said.....YOUR posts are only as good as your sources. You use someGOOD and credible sources, but alter their intent with the crapola you find from idiots like McGowan and "Jarrah White" (noise).



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 12:54 AM
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Check this out. Jarrah White exposes Mythbusters again in another fraudulent experiment of theirs, this time by airhead students who are not scientists or truthseekers, but mere punk actors reading a script. What a disgrace. Those punks don't have half the brains that Jarrah has. Yet Discovery Channel airs them, simply to try to protect the official Moon Landing story that was fed to the world. Why don't they air Jarrah White's videos since he's way smarter than them? Simple reason. Cause the corporate media does not see truth as the actual truth. Instead, truth is whatever AUTHORITY says, and that's final. No critical thinking or skepticism or asking the big questions is allowed. Go figure. Thus, to these powers, airheads who believe whatever they are told are better than intellectuals who challenge what they are told. So much for the value of truth.

Here in this video Mythbusters tries to debunk the claim that deep ingrained footprints on the moon indicate moisture on the moon, which should not be there. They do not really succeed in this objective, but nevertheless, the airhead actors they hired jump up and down in victory anyway. It's very insulting to our intelligence. Jarrah picks their experiment apart and does it properly himself, explaining every step. This is yet another educational example that the big media and truth are often on opposing sides. Here it is. Watch and learn.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

And here in this 7 part video, Jarrah debunks in meticulous point by point detail the claim that amateur Ham radio operators tracked the moon missions all the way to the moon and back.

www.youtube.com...

In a change of subject, Jarrah also did a 3 part video analyzing 9/11 here.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 01:15 AM
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Originally posted by WWu777
Check this out. Jarrah White exposes Mythbusters again in another fraudulent experiment of theirs


What do you mean by again? White has never busted mythbusters, in fact his claims have well and truly been destroyed here, and he White has been shown to have little understanding of science or how things really work.


Why don't they air Jarrah White's videos


Because they have enough comedy already - and that is all they are, comedy, devoid of facts.

snip links that do not show what is claimed.

Why not answer the many questions you have been asked here, Winston?

www.winston-wu.com...



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by WWu777
Simple reason. Cause the corporate media does not see truth as the actual truth. Instead, truth is whatever AUTHORITY says, and that's final. No critical thinking or skepticism or asking the big questions is allowed. Go figure. Thus, to these powers, airheads who believe whatever they are told are better than intellectuals who challenge what they are told. So much for the value of truth.


I think you'll find just about any poorly researched piece of bunk can get time on the discovery channel etc ... It's more about production values and charisma. The myth busters are entertaining and charasmatic with a good production team behind them as well as entertainment credentials. Jarrah White's stuff is poorly produced.

Just look at all the UFO stuff that's out there. It's poorly researched.

As for Jarrah White vs Mythbusters ... well it's a bit meaningless really. Jarrah should be debating with scientists and other types if he's so serious. I'm yet to see him really get a scientist on one of his videos other than quote mining them.

Him debating with an entertainment program is a bit wet. I don't see Adam and Jamie being quoted by many scientific academic journals on the topic.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 02:24 AM
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reply to post by WWu777
 




...Jarrah also did a 3 part video analyzing 9/11 here.


Good grief! As if his Moon Hoax theories weren't bad enough? I couldn't even get through the first one before flagging it down! The bloke is delusional and his Ralph René worship is disturbing.

TJ



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 02:37 AM
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? weedwhacker.

Whoa. Ad hom Joe Rogan by attacking his credibility, his employment history. Ad hom Joe Rogan for, what, being scientifically illiterate? In the radio interview Joe Rogan explicitly and humbly stated that he hasn't got any qualifications or credentials. However, he has questions and remains sKeptical about certain claims made by NASA. I'd try to listen to the entire debate, weedwhacker. Maybe you are too emotionally invested in this thread to have an objective viewpoint anymore.

As a disclosure, I've only read up to the first 90 pages of this thread. I can say without hesitation. weeweewhacker utilizes argument ad hominem at a 11:1 ratio with relation to the moon truthers. That is my best mathematical estimation at the present time.



lol.

I've watched a lot of Jarrah's videos and those of other Australians who are making videos on the subject of Apollo. What I see is not a collection of moon hoaxers, malicious trolls or a frauds. What I see is that the internet generation (whatever that means) has something special about it. They are looking for the source. They are looking for the source of lies that NASA perpetrated upon the last two generations, including MY GENERATION, the TV generation.

That's all over now. The internet is here to stay. User generated content, like Jarrah White, is here to stay. It is a process not unlike Luke's quest or Frodo's quest. It's Jarrah White's quest. He already knows that history is a fact checking exercise. He already knows how propaganda and mind control works with slight of hand. Jarrah is simply putting that into practice. He's creating content whilst you/we are consuming it and you/we/us are all pretending to criticize it. YOU are not LEGIT unless you are on YOUTUBE under your LEGAL NAME defending your SH*T.

Live TV in the 1960's was a powerful force upon men's attitudes, the internet has all the more potential. The search for truth (reliable sources) in the Apollo story should not only be a forensic investigation... it is should also be way of expressing a system of belief without a religious attachment, such as a LEM lander foot pad being covered in gold foil. For what technical reason was gold foil necessary on the A11 lander foot pad?

Joe Rogan, just asks questions and expects straight answers from Phil Plait, in the audio debate hosted by Penn Jillette. I hope you listened to it because it could be considered source material in any future posts by anyone on this forum!
*

*(as I said I only have gotten the first 90 pages of this thread into my head.. I still don't know which ones are the bigger trolls, the hoaxers or the no-hoaxers. it's actually one of the most interesting pieces of internet debate i have ever seen. it's kind of alike an athiest/theist debate in a way. but I know that the no-hoaxers use are using more ad hominems per page than the hoaxers.)



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 03:27 AM
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Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter

I've watched a lot of Jarrah's videos and those of other Australians who are making videos on the subject of Apollo. What I see is not a collection of moon hoaxers, malicious trolls or a frauds. What I see is that the internet generation (whatever that means) has something special about it. They are looking for the source. They are looking for the source of lies that NASA perpetrated upon the last two generations, including MY GENERATION, the TV generation.

That's all over now. The internet is here to stay. User generated content, like Jarrah White, is here to stay. It is a process not unlike Luke's quest or Frodo's quest. It's Jarrah White's quest. He already knows that history is a fact checking exercise. He already knows how propaganda and mind control works with slight of hand. Jarrah is simply putting that into practice. He's creating content whilst you/we are consuming it and you/we/us are all pretending to criticize it. YOU are not LEGIT unless you are on YOUTUBE under your LEGAL NAME defending your SH*T.


What you are seeing is the laziness and lack of critical thinking that exists today. The 'internet generation' is nothing special. They are not looking for "the source", they are looking for a quick fix. What the internet does is give anyone with half a brain a voice. And unfortunately the old 80/20 rule applies: 80% of the population are too lazy to bother learning and doing any proper research, and thats who the half-brained voices target.

The arguments put together in Youtube videos in particular are for the lazy masses. People watch, they believe. They dont do the research. They dont trawl through the thousands of pages of data in hundreds of reports. They dont try to understand what was possible and what wasnt. They dont try to understand the psychology that prevailed in the 1950's and 1960's in particular. There is no excuse for this: the information is out there if you bother to look. I did, and it destroyed any notion i had as a child that the landings were a hoax (thanks for that stupid belief, Dad!).

This is what is leading to all these 'questions' being asked. They have all been answered before, numerous times. However the Youtube audience is too lazy to become technically competent to be able to understand the answers, and too lazy to find the distilled-for-laymen answers that have been provided. Thats why someone like Jarrah White can attract an audience. Not because he forms a coherent argument, but because he feeds the lazy masses what they want to see and hear. For soem reason people want the landings to be fake. I have no idea why! Why on earth would you want one of man's greatest accomplishment to be a fraud?!

This thread also shows it beyond any doubt. Pages and pages of data and research presented to support the moon landings. Baseless speculation and ignorance in denying they ever happened.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 08:02 AM
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It has already been shown repeatedly in this thread, that the proponents of this hair-brained theory have demonstrated:

■ They are incapable of admitting error.
■ They have incomplete or erroneous knowledge of the science involved.
■ They are disposed to making deliberately misleading or false statements
■ A reluctance to pursue single issues with the intellectual rigor required to resolve them.

What would a reasonable person choose?







edit on 2-12-2010 by Smack because: redundant phrase



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by SayonaraJupiter
 


Where to begin? Since the title of this thread implies that YouTube videos constitute some form of debate, it would not be off target to examine your assertions.


I've watched a lot of Jarrah's videos and those of other Australians who are making videos on the subject of Apollo. What I see is not a collection of moon hoaxers, malicious trolls or a frauds.


I suggest you watch more closely. Note how they make no attempt at objectivity. Note their failure to provide verifiable sources. Note the frequent use of disparaging language. As a member of the "TV Generation" I would hope that you have learned that these are all hallmarks of propaganda: they rely on repetition to conceal their position's lack of support. They rely on innuendo rather than coherent reasoning, and they take quotations out of context.


What I see is that the internet generation (whatever that means) has something special about it. They are looking for the source. They are looking for the source of lies that NASA perpetrated upon the last two generations, including MY GENERATION, the TV generation.


They do have something special about them: they can get all the attention they crave by posting videos of themselves dancing in underwear or stuffing coins in their nose. They are not looking for the "source." They are looking for attention. The question is: why do some people seem to assume NASA is lying? Because Jarrah White says so? If you have serious doubts, you need to research things for yourself. Watching YouTube videos is not research.


That's all over now. The internet is here to stay. User generated content, like Jarrah White, is here to stay. It is a process not unlike Luke's quest or Frodo's quest.


What's all over now? Did you know that people have been talking, reading and writing for millennia? "User generated content" goes back that far. I'm sorry if you were too busy watching TV to talk to others, read write or publish, but the only thing that has changed is that one can now reach a large audience with absolutely no effort whatsoever. I suggest you read Alexander Solzhentitzin's "An Open Letter To America" to understand how "free speech" can make speech worthless.


It's Jarrah White's quest.


No; it is his desperate bid for attention. He has already made up his mind; it is not an attempt to discover the truth, it is an attempt to sway others to his opinion. Given a chance to question someone who has actually walked on the Moon, he asked a stupid question that has been answered over and over again for him; what's more, it's a question the astronaut wouldn't be able to answer from his own experience. He did get a mention in the paper, though.

He already knows that history is a fact checking exercise.


There is no evidence that Jarrah White understands anything at all about historical methodology.


He already knows how propaganda and mind control works with slight of hand. Jarrah is simply putting that into practice.


You said it, not I. He is a propagandist, not a truth seeker.


He's creating content whilst you/we are consuming it and you/we/us are all pretending to criticize it.


What makes you think JW is the only one creating "content?" Some of his critics create their own "content" and don't need to stoop to YouTube videos to get their thoughts or research out.



YOU are not LEGIT unless you are on YOUTUBE under your LEGAL NAME defending your SH*T.


Think about what you just said. The scientists who publish in peer reviewed journals are not "legit" because it's not a YouTube video? The poet who stands before a room of strangers is not "legit" because it's not a YouTube video? On the other hand, Jarrah White has been challenged many times to come to this forum to defend himself under his own name. He refuses to do so.



Live TV in the 1960's was a powerful force upon men's attitudes, the internet has all the more potential.


For good or evil, knowledge or ignorance.


The search for truth (reliable sources) in the Apollo story should not only be a forensic investigation... it is should also be way of expressing a system of belief without a religious attachment, such as a LEM lander foot pad being covered in gold foil.


What do you consider to be a reliable source? A video someone cobbled together in their mother's basement? Learning how to evaluate sources is a necessary life skill. I hope you apply this skill to YouTube videos. You seem to be struggling to express something about belief here, but I'm not sure what it is. JW certainly preaches his belief that Apollo was a hoax as though it were religious gospel.


For what technical reason was gold foil necessary on the A11 lander foot pad?


Why not find out for yourself? Rather than wait for someone to do a YouTube video about it, do some actual research. In fact, to make it more challenging and fun, don't use a computer at all. Go to the library and read up on it. Perhaps better still, go to the nearest museum where you can actually see the real thing, then talk to someone there who can explain it to you. Real people are better than "content." They are fully interactive.

edit on 2-12-2010 by DJW001 because: Edit to correct formatting.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by WWu777
Check this out.


For anyone interested in seeing how much of a lemming Winston here is, just check this stellar post of his from early on in this very thread:

First CHRLZ makes a statement concerning the LM:



Originally posted by CHRLZ Interestingly enough, the LM was hailed as one of the crowning achievements of the Apollo program, as it performed essentially flawlessly in every mission. It was an absolute tribute to Grumman's engineering abilities.


To which Wu responds:


Are you kidding? It couldn't perform at all on Earth. It failed when Armstrong tested it and almost nearly killed him. Luckily, he ejected in time. So how could it perform flawlessly on the moon, which might have been staged?


To which our own (and much younger) weedwacker respondedresponded:


Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by WWu777
 


Really? Just post any old nonsense, and expect to get away with it? (Like this "White Jarrah" guy???)


Are you kidding? It couldn't perform at all on Earth. It failed when Armstrong tested it and almost nearly killed him. Luckily, he ejected in time.


This was your response, in the discussion about the LM. Correct?

'WWu" --- how can I tell you this politely?

The LM was NEVER TESTED ON EARTH!


Oh, but, but....yes, I know, you are actually (not so very accurately) referring to the LLRV.



en.wikipedia.org...



In December 1966 vehicle No. 1 was shipped to Houston, followed by No. 2 in January 1967, within weeks of its first flight. Modifications already made to No. 2 had given the pilot a three-axis side control stick and a more restrictive cockpit view, both features of the real Lunar Module that would later be flown by the astronauts down to the moon's surface.

... In December 1967, the first of the LLTVs joined the LLRVs to eventually make up the five-vehicle training and simulator fleet.

In all, NASA built five LM trainers of this type. During training flights at Ellington AFB near Houston, Texas, three of the five vehicles were destroyed in crashes. Two were an early version called the Lunar Landing Research Vehicle or LLRV. Neil Armstrong was flying LLRV-1 on May 6, 1968 when it went out of control. He ejected safely and the vehicle crashed. A later version was called the Lunar Landing Training Vehicle or LLTV and three were built. Two of these were lost in crashes on December 8, 1968 (piloted by Joe Algranti) and January 29, 1971 (piloted by Stuart Present). The other pilots also ejected safely from the crashing LLTV's.



They had FIVE of them, of various designs. For TWO YEARS!!!

And they trained often, for many, many many hours.

Try getting your facts correct. At least then somebody has to, since that YouTube crank can't (or won't).




Wu posts 40 words, and manages to get every last word WRONG!

That pretty much sums up Winston Wu and his liar of a hero Jarrah White to a tee.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter
For what technical reason was gold foil necessary on the A11 lander foot pad?
Because the descent engine generated a lot of thermal radiation, and damaging the landing gear before touching down would be bad.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter


As a disclosure, I've only read up to the first 90 pages of this thread.

...........................

I've watched a lot of Jarrah's videos and those of other Australians who are making videos on the subject of Apollo. What I see is not a collection of moon hoaxers, malicious trolls or a frauds.


Jarrah White not a fraud?

Perhaps you missed this on page 58, where once again CHRLZ is doing the heavy lifting:


Originally posted by CHRLZ
STOP PRESS!!
Especially for tomblvd, but for all discerning viewers eager to find out more about Jarrah's 'expert witness' program.... it appears that the 'expert' in Jarrah's video was contacted, way back in 2007 - try here:

educationforum.ipbhost.com...

Scroll down to the post by Dave Greer, Apr 19 2007, 12:15 PM.
The image he created is no longer there, but you'll see it shortly if you keep reading..

Because.. it gets SO MUCH BETTER. Scroll down to about 3/4 of the way down, Dave Greer again at Apr 23 2007, 04:58 AM.

There is the email from Jenny Heller for all to see, with her permission. And the (very pleasant) email from Dave that elicited her reply, along with an example image showing the same type of shadow effect. Like i said, It's not hard to do.

Now, I'm not going to quote the email from Jenny, except to whet your appetite with these words "...one of his class assignments.."


I STRONGLY recommend that everyone goes and takes a long hard look at what she says. Try to keep a straight face while doing so.

If Jarrah could have been busted worse, I honestly don't know how.

I'll be interested to hear other comments on this. I'm afraid I'm finding it rather difficult to stop laughing. BTW, in case you are concerned at what you might find, the email is not embarrassing at all, from Jenny's perspective... In fact, I congratulate her for what she did, and said.

But from Jarrah's? OH DEAR!!!!

Priceless. You just can't get better entertainment than this....


That's right. Jarrah did a "school project" on the Apollo hoax and had his teacher pretend to be an "expert in perspective". He then posted it on youtube as evidence.

To my knowledge, he has never apologized for lying or corrected the video.

He is a complete fraud.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 03:15 PM
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I want to get back to this photo:
history.nasa.gov...


You pointed out where you thought the foot was, fine.
I saw that too. What I asked though is could somebody show me where they leg is.




Originally posted by nataylor

At first glance, I thought that was a boot print. But upon closer examination, I'm quite sure that's the toe of his boot. Take a look at the boots they wore:



Notice how the ridging consists of narrow indentations and wide ridges. You can also see the boot print in that photo, and there the indentations and ridges are about equal in width. I think it's pretty clear what I pointed to is the toe of the boot.



Looking even closer, you can even see the buckle:





I would use this photo for comparison:
history.nasa.gov...

Assuming that thing is the foot, where does the leg extend to it?

Regarding the "foot" or "boot" itself, there is strange object resting on it?
As I pointed out earlier, It looks like a rock (see arrow).



There is also the matter that the tip of the boot is much smaller than other boot we can clearly see. This is why when we look at it, it looks like a footprint instead of the tip of the boot.
The front of the boots should be higher, but the one that you pointed out to is low, like it got deflated (see rectangles).

See here:
3.bp.blogspot.com...

And like I said, where does the leg go (see circles)?
Was this astronaut doing the split?

Then I want to ask another question, whats that tool that is across the waist of the Astronaut.
Is that extending from the MET or is that attached to the astronaut?
Is that the Tong?
spaceflight.nasa.gov...




edit on 2-12-2010 by FoosM because: formatting



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by FoosM
I want to get back to this photo:
history.nasa.gov...



What, specifically, does this have to do with proving the Apollo missions were a hoax?



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 04:08 PM
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Did America really go to the Moon. . .or were
taxpayers just taken for a ride?

This 2-hour report by James Collier, author of "VOTESCAM: The Stealing of America"
includes new evidence videod in the Johnson Space Center in Houston -- and questions
whether NASA was guilty of spending billions of taxpayer money -- to stage
the greatest theatrical hoax of all time.

This video demands answers from the U.S. Government before we go to Mars.

1) Was the hatch between the Command Module & the Lunar Module too small for the space-suited astronauts to pass through no matter what contortions they could go through to try?

2) Did the front hatch of the Lunar Module open inward making it impossible for the astronauts to exit the cramped LM?

3) Was there actually no NASA manual instructing the astronauts how to get out of the LM, leaving it up to each individual to figure that out for himself? (As told on camera to Collier by Frank Hughes, Chief of Astronaut Training at NASA)

4) Was the 10-foot Rover too long to fit into the 5-foot side of the LM? Collier challenges NASA to disprove the above in a public demonstration to American taxpayers!
This investigation and that of others, including investigator Bill Kaysing,
who is now suing Astronaut James Lovell for slander (jury trial, Santa Cruz, Ca., Oct. 7th), cannot be ignored.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by FoosM
 


I dunno, FoosM, but do you think that the astronaut's leg might just possibly be hidden by the tea trolley in front of it? (I mean the MET, of course.)



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 04:17 PM
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Simulating Space: A Space Training History, Frank Hughes



Training for space flight has grown increasingly complex and more refined throughout the space program, beginning with the simple missions and simple spacecraft of the 1960s, required specialized operations for moon landings, and continuing to evolve to support the most complex machines and missions in space, Space Shuttle and the International Space Station. Throughout, Frank Hughes worked in space flight training, leading the establishment of the operations and training processes for Space Shuttle and Space Station. Frank will review the history and evolution of training over the course of the program and will highlight the requirements for establishing a successful training program for future space missions.

Frank Hughes served as the chief of NASA’s Johnson Space Center Spaceflight Training Division. He spent more than 30 years with NASA, working spaceflight training in Gemini, Apollo, Skylab, Space Shuttle, Space Station and future exploration programs, training the flight crews, the flight controllers, and the trainers.

Frank earned his BS in physics at St. Mary's College, California and a MS degree in environmental management at the University of Houston, Clear Lake.


edit on 2-12-2010 by FoosM because: www.spacecenterlectureseries.com...



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 04:25 PM
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So what began as simple research turned into months at the New York Public Library, the Library of Congress in Washington and the United States Archives. Surpisingly, precious little had been written about the Apollo missions except standard "puff" pieces in the New York Times
and the Washington Post.

Then my research turned to Grumman Aircraft in Beth Page, New York. Grumman built the Lunar Module (LM), that unwieldy looking craft that never flew on Earth but supposedly landed safely on the moon six times. I asked for blueprints detailing the scientific thought behind its design. Did it run by computer? If so, who built the computer? What made Grumman engineers think it could fly?

Grumman told me that all the paperwork was destroyed. I was stunned. The LM historical paperwork was destroyed!? Why!? They had no answers. I turned to Boeing Aircraft in Seattle. They built the Lunar Rover, the little car that NASA claims traversed the moon on Apollo missions15-16-17. NASA claims it was transported to the moon in a five-foot high by six-foot wide, triangular corner section of the LM.
(The LM's bottom section was basically a tic-tac-toe design with nine sections. Five sections were squares with the four corners being triangles).

But my research indicated that the Rover was at least six feet too long to fit into that corner compartment, thus making it impossible to ever get to the moon.

Next was the National Air and Space Museum in Washington and the Johnson Space Center in Houston where I video taped an actual LM. Here research indicated that the crew compartment and hatches were too small for the astronauts to actually enter and exit. After taking the video footage I challenged NASA to prove that two six-foot astronauts, in
ballooned-out pressure suits (4-psi in a vacuum) could either get in or get out of a LM.

Trying to understand how the moon aquired a ten-foot layer of top soil without wind, rain or water to erode the volcanic-crystaline surface, I spoke to a geologist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston.

Much of my time was spent just trying to mentally picture the physics of light and shadows, jet propulsion and solar radiation, because most of what NASA was claiming about the moon shots -- and what was supposedly discovered on the moon -- appeared to be diametrically opposed to present text book physics.




www.thule.org...



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