Well the arbitrage over there in the PIIGS right now is incredible. And the CDS spreads on the UK, wow just wow. Never thought I'd see it in my lifetime.

They're totally powerless to stop speculators.

But I can't see anyone wanting this to end quickly there is much more money to be made protracting it as long as possible.

What does this mean for the rest of the world, primarily the US and the Asian markets? Is this an economic domino effect that is coming?

Originally posted by belial259
Well the arbitrage over there in the PIIGS right now is incredible. And the CDS spreads on the UK, wow just wow. Never thought I'd see it in my lifetime.

They're totally powerless to stop speculators.

But I can't see anyone wanting this to end quickly there is much more money to be made protracting it as long as possible.

Yeah, a slow-roasted chunk of meat on a spit is always jucier than a flash-fried crisp, isn't it?

I take Roubini with a big grain of salt (more like a salt-lick), but things ain't looking pretty over there and the eurozone doesn't have a good track record on making necessary, coordinated, or rapid moves to staunch the flows.

Originally posted by warpcrafter
What does this mean for the rest of the world, primarily the US and the Asian markets? Is this an economic domino effect that is coming?

Well, opinions vary; here's a rather strong one from an extremely "orthodox" voice:

Greek debt crisis spreading 'like Ebola' and Europe must act now, OECD warns

The Greek debt crisis is spreading "like Ebola" and Europe must act now to protect the stability the financial markets, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. "It’s not a question of the danger of contagion; contagion has already happened," OECD secretary general Angel Gurria said. "This is like Ebola. When you realise you have it you have to cut your leg off in order to survive," he added, saying the crisis is "threatening the stability of the financial system"....

...the Frankfurt stock market slid 1.93pc and Paris 2.16pc in midmorning trading. London's FTSE 100 fell 1pc, one day after suffering its biggest one-day loss since November. Lisbon tumbled 6pc and Madrid fell 3pc, while Athens was down 1.69pc after heavy recent losses. "Any hope that the Greek issue was finally coming under control took a huge blow yesterday with the country's sovereign debt being downgraded to junk," said Ben Potter, an analysts at IG Markets.

...The debt crisis also unsettled Asian markets, with Tokyo dropping 2.6pc and Hong Kong 1.3pc.

Wall Street shed 1.9pc overnight, with the Dow Jones index finishing under the symbolic 11,000-point level....

For some reason I'm having a lot of trouble linking to the source, but its on the website of the UK Newspaper "The Telegraph" under the same title.


[edit on 4/30/10 by silent thunder]

Let me see if I have this straight lets make a pact with many countries both weak and strong and then tie them together using laws and currency. Then bring the house of cards down on everything.



And then the strong countries wonder why they need to pay and it pisses of the populations to no end. Hmm I wonder what will happen. If this has not been staged I would be amazed. Something sure does stink.



We need to really start to look at were the money flows and why this is the only way to see the truth.

I suppose it depends on what your idea of collapse is.

But things are going to get a whole lot worse, before they get better IMHO.

Originally posted by warpcrafter
What does this mean for the rest of the world, primarily the US and the Asian markets? Is this an economic domino effect that is coming?

An interesting question .. when the Euro was created it almost instantly began to eat away the Dollars dominance.. in fact, from 1999-2010 the Dollar has decline by almost 1/3rd of it's value.

If the Euro would collapse.. the value of Dollars, as a refuge, would sky rocket. This would, for a short time make average American's feel very good.. CPI should drop like a rock and our buying power increased drastically. The down side would be that.. this happened to Japan in 2008-2009 .. their currency bounced to high to fast, crippling their industries .. yes, the people felt positive effects of inflation, higher buying power etc, and then got squashed under the weight of higher exporting costs.

Also, it will most likely cripple the Euro-zones importing abilities as a domino of countries economically collapse and reform.. this will have negative effects to it's largest importers (China and the USA) .. industrial losses from both countries.

To put it into laymens terms. "What does it mean for the rest of the World?" .. consider this: The Eurozone's economy is LARGER than Americas. So ask your self "What would America collapsing do to the rest of the World" .. then imagine it being worse..



PS: I don't think the Euro is going to crash in a few days.. but the situation is interesting as it's nothing to relate to history, it's all new. Germany offered the lions share of the pie to Greece.. and the people are pissed off. Then 2 days ago it was released by the IMF to actually save Greece Germany will have to almost double it's offer... again... the people are pissed. Honestly, Germany should say screw you guys, go back to the Mark and forget the Euro ever happened.

Greece will never take social cuts.. they are a Socialist Country.. it would be like telling America that to survive we would have to reduce our military .. by god the world would burn before we did that.

everyone wants to hedge their call on the current status of the collapse....as though the hole just goes deeper and deeper forever without bottoming out.


but i am here to tell you, folks. we are due a biggun. any day now. the only reason i am looking forward to it is so that i can have the peace of mind knowing that it is finally over.


it will be interesting to see how this particular crisis is wiped clean...but its getting harder to hedge this off much longer...

Originally posted by Rockpuck

PS: I don't think the Euro is going to crash in a few days.. but the situation is interesting as it's nothing to relate to history, it's all new. Germany offered the lions share of the pie to Greece.. and the people are pissed off. Then 2 days ago it was released by the IMF to actually save Greece Germany will have to almost double it's offer... again... the people are pissed. Honestly, Germany should say screw you guys, go back to the Mark and forget the Euro ever happened.

Greece will never take social cuts.. they are a Socialist Country.. it would be like telling America that to survive we would have to reduce our military .. by god the world would burn before we did that.

Don't forget that Portugal and Spain were also downgraded this week and they'll also have caps in hand soon - then what? Can Germany really afford to help all? On the other hand can Germany afford not to help? What a mess!

I was reading last week that Germany may pull out of the Euro (it was on Bloomberg.com but I don't have the link anymore). When I first read it, I didn't believe it would happen but now I'm not so sure because there may be no other way to save themselves.

As someone else mentioned, I always thought that is was strange that strong economic countries and currencies in Europe would want to be lumped with those lesser ones. Sooner or later there was going to be a time when the stronger had to either bail out the weaker ones when the economy went south or else go back to individual currencies. I can't can't see Germany bailing out those kinda countries for long.

The Euro is a good idea in good economic times, but during bad times countries will revert to whatever is in their own self interest.

Originally posted by Rockpuck


Greece will never take social cuts.. they are a Socialist Country.. it would be like telling America that to survive we would have to reduce our military .. by god the world would burn before we did that.

Greece can go sell their islands one at a time or the whole lot to get the money that they need. Or sell the Greek part of Cyprus to Turkey.

The question is whether they have enough islands and other people have enough money to buy.

If not, Greeks have to learn to tighten their belts, if they still have belts.

Originally posted by Maya00a
I was reading last week that Germany may pull out of the Euro (it was on Bloomberg.com but I don't have the link anymore). When I first read it, I didn't believe it would happen but now I'm not so sure because there may be no other way to save themselves.

Germany's depegging from England lead to WWI. So...?

The entire world's financial system at stake. Almost everything is based on paper and plastic money. We all witness how USA became center of attention when struck by 2008 economic mess.

Now the main attention shifted to Europe while Obama plays the recovery flute. How convenient?!

All fiat systems fail badly it is thier mathematical destiny. That is what we are witnessing on a global scale. That is why they are called money from nothing. It's like living on a credit card and never having to make a payment. You can live large until the bills come due and the credit is cut off then you crash back to where you started; from nothing.

I think the international banksters are arrogant enough to believe they can perpetuate this forever. This crisis is contrived to reboot the fiat system They know it is at its mathematical end and they want to start it over, but they can't do that until they deflate the economies they have inflated the last 40 years.

Right now we are in the taking of wealth and property stage because when they reboot they want to control most of the property and wealth so they can rape us gain while they re-inflate the so called new system by selling our property back to us as they re-inflate so they make most of the profit along with thier other agendas. But it's not really new it's the same pig with a new dress and different color lipstick repackaged and resold as the new saviour to the world economy, it will be for the good of humanity you know...

They may get away with it again as to many people are ignorant of how it works. And also will be hurting and accept just about anything that relieves their pain and suffering. And it is going to get worse folks guaranteed!

[edit on 1-5-2010 by hawkiye]