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Arizona immigration bill has no authority, it relies on federal agencies for enforcement

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posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 03:55 PM
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Here is just another reason the new Arizona immigration bill is just a disaster. Here is a link to the bill if you need to reference it.

Az. Immigration Bill

Not that I think this bill is going to work like they think it is...but let's say it does and they start catching illegals by the truckload. They have absolutely no authority to do anything about it themselves...they still have to rely on ICE to actually enforce the law. But let's assume it does work great and they are catching illegals (with the occasional American citizen mis-identified as an illegal here and there) every single day by the bus load. Ok...how do they do that and what's next?

The bill now allows police officers to check legal status for "reasonably suspicious" individuals...in fact it pretty much forces them to do so since the law also allows citizens to sue police officers and departments if they feel like they aren't enforcing the law...but that is another topic. So how are they going to do this??? Oh that's right...they have to have the federal agency verify that for them because they don't have the authority to.


20 B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).



Ok...so they find out the legal status...now what are these officers supposed to do after they check the legal status and find or suspect that an individual is illegal??

They hand them over to ICE or border patrol.


27 C. IF AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IS
28 CONVICTED OF A VIOLATION OF STATE OR LOCAL LAW, ON DISCHARGE FROM
29 IMPRISONMENT OR ASSESSMENT OF ANY FINE THAT IS IMPOSED, THE ALIEN SHALL BE
30 TRANSFERRED IMMEDIATELY TO THE CUSTODY OF THE UNITED STATES IMMIGRATION AND
31 CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT OR THE UNITED STATES CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION.



Now tell me...what do you think ICE or border patrol is going to do when they get overloaded, even more than they are now, with local police from all over the state dragging in suspected illegals???

My bet is that they are going to release them. They simply do not have the man power or resources for the influx of illegals this will create if the law goes as planned. In fact...they are going to have to deal with double checking each and every person the local police bring because they can't just take their word for it and deport them. And you know there is going to be a high rate of false detainment...and the last thing ICE wants is to deport an American citizen. So instead of dealing with all that...I suspect they will just let them go and continue to investigate their own cases.

Do you know how many ICE field offices for detention and removal there are in the state of Arizona...ONE. They have ONE field office in Arizona...ONE for the entire state of Arizona.

ICE Arizona Field Offices

How is one field office going to handle the influx of cases? Like I said before...I think they will ignore them and let them go. And you can't blame them...they have their own investigations going on...they don't want to be bothered with every local cop hauling down a suspected illegal, dropping them off and then leaving. Are they supposed to drop what they are doing, drop their current investigations and double check to see if this local cop even knew what he was doing??? I don't personally don't think so. Are they going to just detain all these people until they get around to looking into it? That will be great for when an American citizen is accidentally detained.

So are they going to take them to border patrol instead? That's a great idea...flood them with work so they can't do their job watching the border. And wouldn't they just have to hand them off to ICE anyway since they weren't caught actually crossing the border?

So in reality...this new Arizona bill has done nothing. It has made it illegal to be an illegal in the state of Arizona. And the punishment for that....oh that is right...they don't have the authority to do anything about it...so they hand it off to ICE.

The funny thing about all of this is that it was a big political move to get the governor some brownie points with the voters of Arizona. It's a way to say "Hey look...I'm doing something about immigration." But in reality she has done nothing except make it legal for people of color to be harrassed and cost her state a ton of money in extra enforcement, extra paperwork, and all the lawsuits that are sure to come. But hey....some on ATS want to make her President...for doing nothing.


So I have to ask...what is everyone so happy about? Another law that will waste money and accomplish nothing besides bring lawsuits and false detainments??? And if it does work...IT ISN'T ARIZONA ENFORCING ANYTHING. It WILL be the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT enforcing the laws. It's just funny when I hear people claim they are so happy that Arizona is going to enforce the laws that the federal government won't...that isn't the case.


If you think this bill is THE solution...please tell me how you think it will all work out.




posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


O.K. I will. I don't have much time right now, so I'll give you the short version. The illegals are starting to leave on their own, that's why other states are starting to consider their own version of this bill. People are starting to NOT pick up illegals at Home Depot's and such. The illegals know this , obviously, and that's one reason they're leaving. They can't get work. Which is good for the 10% or so of the unemployed here in this state, because now, instead of picking up illegals, small time employers will start going to day labor outfits which in turn will put US to work.

You got a problem with that?



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 04:51 PM
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I agree with you that it needs federal enforcement, which will truly highlight the problem our Federal government has in enforcing the Laws it had created for our National Security.

Arizona's bill will help push the Federal government to do its job that its own LAWS were designed to, if it fails to do its job even after Arizona's actions....Come NOVEMBER the Federal Government is going to be looking a whole lot different.

Kudos to Arizona and all of those other states starting to wake up to the Federal Conspiracy.



[edit on 29-4-2010 by prionace glauca]



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 05:00 PM
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The real solution probably involves Ending the "War on Drugs" that has destroyed Mexico in the first place.

And then slowly picking up the pieces and rebuilding their economy and infrastructure.

This way, we can solve the root problems causing the issue to escalate out of control.

There is a reason people come running from Mexico.

Let's address that rather than by reactionary legislation that solves nothing.

You deport them? They come right back over the border and try again and again.

Let's figure out WHY this is happening, and SOLVE that. Reactionary measures never solve the root problem.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by Taupin Desciple
 


I'll give you that...seems like the initial fear has caused some to move. Not sure on the numbers though or how long it will last. May just be a knee jerk reaction by some.

Have you seen any numbers? I've only seen random articles interviewing one or two people.

I have seen no sources showing no one is picking up day laborers anymore...do you have a source for that?

This fear factor won't last long...we have seen it before...it never lasts.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by prionace glauca
 



I agree with you that it needs federal enforcement, which will truly highlight the problem our Federal government has in enforcing the Laws it had created for our National Security.

Arizona's bill will help push the Federal government to do its job that its own LAWS were designed to, if it fails to do its job even after Arizona's actions....Come NOVEMBER the Federal Government is going to be looking a whole lot different.



So do you support hiring a ton more immigration officers?

Because I always here on ATS that the government is getting to big, and there are too many government employees, and even in some extreme radical cases...if you work for the government...you are the enemy.


Seems like this issue creates a lot of contradictions for some people here on ATS.

They generally want small government...except on this issue. They are fine with adding thousands upon thousands of government employees to hunt down the illegal immigrants. But they better not add any government employees to do something crazy like cut Medicare fraud...THAT is crossing the line.


They generally are for the protection of the rights of all American citizens...except on this issue...they have no problem with a subset of American citizens (AMERICAN CITIZENS) being racially profiled and required to carry their papers everywhere they go...something no other American citizen has to do. But don't you dare make someone buy health insurance...that would protect them and lower health care costs for all of us...but THAT is crossing the line.


They generally want the government out of their life...except on this issue...they have no problem carrying around their drivers license, state id, SS car, birth certificate, and a blood sample...as long as it gets rid of the illegal immigrants. But they better not come knocking on their doors asking how many people live in their house....THAT is crossing the line.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


muzzleflash...me and you don't generally agree on much...but that is a very logical solution.

If we are going to be in the business of nation building, which I don't agree with...but that is reality, we might as well start with our neighbors...right?



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 05:23 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Who needs to hire immigrant officers? In fact we need to fire the current one, IMHO. We need to bring our national guard back into the states and stand guard at the border. Like their name " N A T I O N A L G U A R D" implies.

The government is too big, so they need to dismantle this phony ICE program who are very selective on when they want to enforce. We already have men like Sheriff Joe "The Main Man" and there are many more like him willing to do what needs to be done.

Racially Profiled? Is that phrase ever going to be put to rest by the naysayers of the LAWS. If you want to call the supporter and enforcers of the LAW "Racial Profilers" because they are enforcing the LAW so be it. That argument holds no water for the criminals that are here and deserve to kicked out of this country. Come here legally and don't tread on our laws.

Yes government out of the lives of private LEGAL US citizens so they don't meddle with me financially, in health care, by what I eat, & by how I express my dissent. The government is for National Security, quit trying to provide security abroad come defend the borders against the invasion that has been incurring for years. Since the government fails to do what it was designed to do, time for us the CITIZENS to step up to the plate.

I suggest you get with the PROGRAM or GET OUT OF THE WAY.


[edit on 29-4-2010 by prionace glauca]



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by prionace glauca
 



Who needs to hire immigrant officers? In fact we need to fire the current one, IMHO. We need to bring our national guard back into the states and stand guard at the border. Like their name " N A T I O N A L G U A R D" implies.

The government is too big, so they need to dismantle this phony ICE program who are very selective on when they want to enforce. We already have men like Sheriff Joe "The Main Man" and there are many more like him willing to do what needs to be done.



You do realize a large population of the illegal immigrants are illegal because they overstayed their visa...not because they crossed to border illegally...right???

So yes...you still need ICE...and you need ICE to deport people. The National Guard could patrol the border to stop anymore from crossing illegally...seems like a waste to me...but whatever. But you still need ICE to enforce immigration laws...national guard can not enforce immigration laws.


Racially Profiled? Is that phrase ever going to be put to rest by the naysayers of the LAWS. If you want to call the supporter and enforcers of the LAW "Racial Profilers" because they are enforcing the LAW so be it. That argument holds no water for the criminals that are here and deserve to kicked out of this country. Come here legally and don't tread on our laws.


It won't go away until people are treated like equals. Are you going to honestly tell me that you don't think racism exist in America today??? Do you know anyone that is racist??? I do...many people...but they don't talk about it openly...only when they think they are within a safe group to talk about it.

Please tell me you are not that naive that you think racism and racial profiling doesn't exist.



Yes government out of the lives of private LEGAL US citizens so they don't meddle with me financially, in health care, by what I eat, & by how I express my dissent.


It is amazing you still don't understand that I am talking about LEGAL US CITIZENS. YOU are willing to sacrafice the rights of a subset of LEGAL US CITIZENS...you know the ones with brown skin...just because you have an irrational hatred of people trying to find a better life for them and their family.


I suggest you get with the PROGRAM or GET OUT OF THE WAY.


No sir...I think I'll stand right in your way...with the constitution in one hand...and a big raised middle finger in the other.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 09:49 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


I don't see how this bill has no authority.

If anything it makes the federal agencies, i.e. ICE, do their jobs. Which is a good thing.

Seems to me they don't have an excuse not to do their jobs any longer.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by Miracle Man
 


The bill has no authority in terms of what to do after an officer of the peace determines the citizen status of a person.

The Arizona bill is basically a carbon copy of current Federal statute; given at the state level.

While I agree that something needs to be done and I believe this is stepping in the right direction, it is drumming up to be nothing more than a political stunt.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by ownbestenemy
 


If its a carbon copy then we are bickering about nothing.

What it is doing is bringing a lot of attention to a problem that has basically been swept under the rug.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by Miracle Man
 


And this I agree. The State is basically throwing the situation into the lime light as needs to be.

I guess to answer the OP would be that there never was intention of deportation but rather to highlight the lackadaisical Federal enforcement of laws that are currently on the books in terms of illegal immigration.

The state has provided some CYA when election time rolls around. The governor can now pass the buck upwards and lay the blame squarely upon the shoulders of an inept Federal Government.

Also, in terms of citizens of Arizona being able to sue if enforcement of the law is not met, shouldn't that pertain to all laws that are to be enforced?

As a state wide initiative, counties and cities are to adhere to the law. The ability to sue in a court of law say a city, is to ensure that some mayor doesn't declare the town a 'sanctuary' town. At least, that is how I read it.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
No sir...I think I'll stand right in your way...with the constitution in one hand...and a big raised middle finger in the other.


And how is the view in that mirror you looking at?

line 2



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by prionace glauca
 


Is that all you got...really?


2nd line...because you gave me nothing to respond to...weak.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by Miracle Man
 



I don't see how this bill has no authority.

If anything it makes the federal agencies, i.e. ICE, do their jobs. Which is a good thing.


It has no authority because they can't force ICE to do anything. ICE used to say "no thanks" over the phone because they were already to busy...now they will just say "no thanks" in person because they are too busy.

I wouldn't even doubt that they make it a policy that they don't accept local LEOs dropping off suspected illegals.



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