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Oklahoma law 'allows doctors to lie' to patients to prevent abortions.

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posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 03:24 PM

New York (CNN) -- As a reproductive rights advocate and a proud mother of two, my blood ran cold as I read about Oklahoma's new abortion legislation (HB 2656). The state of Oklahoma just decided, and by an appallingly high margin I might add, that a doctor is protected from being sued if he or she chooses not to tell a woman that the baby she is carrying has a birth defect.

State legislators made this decision Tuesday, voting 36-12 in the Senate and 84-12 in the House to override Gov. Brad Henry's veto of this law. (The Legislature also overrode the governor's veto of a second egregious law, HB 2780, which forces women to view an ultrasound before having an abortion.)

Oklahoma, what have you done?

Under this new law, a doctor may withhold information, mislead or even blatantly lie to a pregnant woman and her partner about the health of their baby if the doctor so much as thinks that fetal test results would cause a woman to consider abortion.

How could a physician even fathom lying to a patient about something like this?

There are multiple types of surgeries that can be preformed in utero that can correct some very serious potential birth defects. Including spina bifida correction and aortic valve stenosis.
how can you not give the parents this type of information to allow them to make a decision on their own?
Further more, this law is mostly useless anyways, since abortions in the US are only allowed to be done in the first trimester. The first 12-13 weeks. Often, birth defects that are this serious don't even show up for several weeks after this time.

Screening for potential defects is very rare during the first trimester anyways, and is usually only done if the physician suspects there is the potential of the child having something like Down's Syndrome.
If you are going to screen for this, there is a very good chance that the patient already is going to be aware of it, since there would already have to have been suspicions raised first.

This law is appalling... and could very likely taint the medical industry, especially in Oklahoma.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by webpirate]

posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 03:57 PM
I just saw this clip, this story is actually on the border of legalizing torture and sexual abuse by doctors... Look..

posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 04:16 PM
reply to post by ChemBreather

Wow...that guy could use some Valium..but I do understand why he is upset...

OK. This seems to say that this is entire procedure is required even if the abortion is medically necessary.
Let me show you all this.

Abruptio placentae is the separation of the normally located placenta after the 20th week of gestation and prior to birth.

Instead of trying to explain this, because my explanations can be very long winded...I found this here:

Bleeding into the decidua basalis leads to separation of the placenta. Hematoma formation further separates the placenta from the uterine wall, causing compression of these structures and compromise of blood supply to the fetus. Retroplacental blood may penetrate through the thickness of the uterine wall into the peritoneal cavity, a phenomenon known as Couvelaire uterus. The myometrium in this area becomes weakened and may rupture with increased intrauterine pressure during contractions. A myometrium rupture immediately leads to a life-threatening obstetrical emergency.

Severity of fetal distress correlates with the degree of placental separation. In near-complete or complete abruption, fetal death is inevitable unless an immediate cesarian delivery is performed

This is a dire medical emergency. Both the fetus and mother can die from this. If they are required to have this done the way the law prescribes it, there is a strong probability the mother and fetus will be dead.
How does this relate to abortions?
If the fetus is removed because of this, prior to it becoming viable, then it could be considered an abortion.

You can not have non medical personnel legislate medical procedures. I understand the intent of this law, even if I don't agree with it, but this is preposterous.

My recommendations, if you get pregnant, leave Oklahoma and go somewhere else. Just don't go to Arizona either...

posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 05:02 PM
reply to post by webpirate


Thanks for posting that interesting article.

I know this area very well.....

The idea that Dr's can be allowed to lie or deceive in this manner is absurd.

In fact it's so absurd, I question whether the information is correct.

Can you find any other sources & more detailed info regarding this legislation?

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 05:18 PM
Thanks for the reply Maybe...maybe not.
Here is more I have found on this issue:

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not

Oklahoma Abortion Law: No Exceptions, Even Rape

New Oklahoma abortion law faces battle

House Bill 2780

• Requires women seeking an abortion to be shown an ultrasound at least an hour before undergoing the procedure.

• The health care provider must describe fetal development, including the heart beat and development of organs or limbs. The woman can avert her eyes, but health care providers are required to give an explanation.

• Women seeking an abortion because of a medical emergency are not required to view an ultrasound image. A written certificate detailing the medical emergency will stay in a patient’s file for up to seven years.

• A doctor who does not comply with the ultrasound requirement can be sued by the woman seeking an abortion; the patient’s spouse, parent, sibling or guardian; or another health care provider.

• The district attorney or attorney general also can bring legal action to stop the provider from doing abortions.

• A physician who violates the injunction could be fined up to $100,000.

House Bill 2656

• Protects a health care provider from a lawsuit if their omission of information about the health or condition of an unborn child "contributed to the mother not having obtained an abortion.”

Another Article

This is the second time within a couple of years the OK legislature has passed such a strict anti-abortion law.
The first one, which required forms relating to race as well as reasons for the abortion, with additional provisions that would have posted names online that were publicly available of the women that had had abortions, was struck down by the courts before it took effect last year.

That law also was passed, vetoed by the Governor then overridden by the legislature just like this one has been. There is a lot of speculation that this law also might be struck down, but it has not as of yet.

posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 05:21 PM
reply to post by webpirate


Thanks for that.

I will review that tonight after work.

Concidentally, I'm having lunch with a top clinical ultrasound person today.....I might raise the issue & see if she has any comments.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 05:28 PM
reply to post by Maybe...maybe not

It seems like the entire ultrasound issue in this law, especially the part of it being inserted into the mother, is a blatant ploy the Legislature is using to push their views of the world on others. They are wanting the physicians to get the clearest view possible of the fetus to SHOW the mother in an attempt to convince her that she really doesn't want an abortion.

I found the OK state laws online, but they are all wanting to open in WORD, and it is hard to search a specific place to find the actual text of the law as it is written. I am still looking though.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by webpirate]

posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 05:42 PM
Absolutely ridiculous, and will not stand up in court.

But thank you OK, for doing this. It is like a neon sign that says, DONT MOVE HERE!! WE HATE CIVIL RIGHTS AND OUR DOCTORS WILL LIE TO YOU.

So now we have in the United States, OK, and Arizona, with Texas and Ohio as states for intelligent persons who enjoy civil rights to avoid.

I am ashamed of how stupid and disgusting my country is becoming.

Any doctor who would lie to a patient has NO soul, has NO morals, has NO principals, and IS BREAKING his doctor oath to do no harm. Lies are harmful. I would boycott any doctor who would lie to a patient.

The names of any doctors who lie should be published so those with brains in OK can make an intelligent choice. I would sue anyway to challenge this, and at the least small claims them for perjury.

If a dr lies about a condition, that condition has been recorded in legal paperwork, your medical file. Once a Doctor lies, they have committed perjury.

This makes me sick, and anyone who supports this should be ashamed.

posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 08:11 PM
This bill is absolutely disgusting. It undermines the very basis of medical practice: the trust between doctors and our patients. If I were a clinician practicing in Oklahoma, I would be leading the charge with my colleagues to have the bill annulled, or find a means to practice across the border and still provide for my patient population in Oklahoma.

posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 08:19 PM
reply to post by webpirate

The law passed, the debate is over, the science is settled. If you don't like it then vote for change in the next election. If you don't live in OK then stop complaining.

posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 08:22 PM
Christian's in OK are like Nazis... Nazi's were christian, too, btw.. people seem to overlook that. We can and have had christian fascists in the 20th century; never forget that...

posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 08:25 PM

Originally posted by Kaytagg
Christian's in OK are like Nazis... Nazi's were christian, too, btw.. people seem to overlook that. We can and have had christian fascists in the 20th century; never forget that...

Nazis were a lot of things including pagan with pagan rituals and festivals. Your right though anybody can say they are anything and can still do anything - pesky freedom and free will. Unless I missed your point -- surely you don't suggest that all Christians are Nazis because -- that would be crazy.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by ararisq]

posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 08:28 PM
reply to post by ararisq

American's (christians) have pagan rituals too -- what do you think a christmas tree is? What do you think the easter bunny is?

/edit I don't go as far as you to claim that they're pagan because they practice pagan rituals. Your arguments are simply misleading and uninformed

I'm TELLING YOU that just because they're christian, doesn't mean they're not fascists (like the nazis). In fact, I think it makes it even more probable that they will fall to fascism, because fundamentalist religious folk are brainwashed slaves who don't know anything.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Kaytagg]

posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 08:51 PM

Originally posted by ararisq
reply to post by webpirate

The law passed, the debate is over, the science is settled. If you don't like it then vote for change in the next election. If you don't live in OK then stop complaining.

You're right, everyone should ignore that sign that says "slippery slope". Also, ignore the signs that say "malpractice", "human rights violations" and "civil rights conflict", as well.

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