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Could all the hate against freemasonry be anti-semitic in origin?

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posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 12:27 PM
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I've been reading Mein Kampf. I just wanted to quote a passage that I thought was rather interesting. I realize that freemasons are part of the new world order power structure. I'm just wondering about the origin of the hate. Now we have more sophisticated conspiracy theorists who have read Quiggly and who have studied the French revolution who are able to talk about how much power the Freemasons have had, but, could they have been thought of to be part of a Jewish conspiracy, and, thus, an anti-semitic conspiracy at first?

Let me quote a passage from Mein Kampf that made me think so.



Finally, the Jewish influence on economic affairs grows with terrifying speed through the stock exchange. He becomes the owner, or at least the controller, of the national labor force.
To strengthen his political position he tries to tear down the racial and civil barriers which for a time continue to restrain him at every step. To this end he fights with all the tenacity innate in him for religious tolerance-and in Freemasonry, which has succumbed to him completely, he has an excellent instrument with which to fight for his aims and put them across. The governing circles and the higher strata of the political and economic bourgeoisie are brought into his nets by the strings of Freemasonry, and never need to suspect what is happening

www.hitler.org...

Also, from the same chapter



Only the deeper and broader strata of the people as such, or rather that class which is beginning to wake up and fight for its rights and freedom, cannot yet be sufficiently taken in by these methods. But this is more necessary than anything else; for the Jew feels that the possibility of his rising to a dominant role exists only if there is someone ahead of him to dear the way; and this someone he thinks he can recognize in the bourgeoisie, in their broadest strata in fact. The glovemakers and linen weavers, however, cannot be caught in the fine net of Freemasonry; no, for them coarser but no less drastic means must be employed. Thus Freemasonry is joined by a second weapon in the service of the Jews: the press. With all his perseverance and dexterity he seizes possession of it. With it he slowly begins to grip and ensnare, to guide and to push all public life, since he is in a position to create and direct that power which, under the name of 'public opinion,' IS better known today than a few decades ago.


I realize there was an anti-mason party and that it wasn't all just because of anti-semitism. I'm just wondering if writings like this existed in the past that were critical of freemasonry, but, they were part of a larger anti-semitic conspiracy theory.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Frankidealist35]




posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 


I really don't think people necessarily associate the two. Freemasonry has just gained a popular following thanks to the movies.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 12:39 PM
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No, people have talked about freemasonry for along time before hitler.

There really are people doing this stuff, like meeting behind closed doors doing deals with who knows what.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by Frankidealist35


I realize there was an anti-mason party and that it wasn't all just because of anti-semitism. I'm just wondering if writings like this existed in the past that were critical of freemasonry, but, they were part of a larger anti-semitic conspiracy theory.



Yes. Most anti-Masonic conspiracy theory, especially that of the 20th and 21st centuries, is also tied to anti-Semitism in one form or another.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 12:51 PM
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No it's not.

Freemasonry derives loosely from a Christian Knightly Order, historically. This dates back well over 600 years.

It is more akin to anti-Christian sentiments. Because Freemasonry came from a group of Christians.

The Church's inquisition of the Templars is where the negative feelings first rose their ugly head.

The Anti-Masonic movements of 100-150years ago were entirely political in nature, and had nothing to do with religion or race at all.

They were purely political.

Anyone saying different (that it's anti-Semitic etc) is a revisionist and inadvertently spreading misinformation. Sorry to say.

By saying it is tied to Antisemitism is merely condemning anyone with an opinion as a Nazi or whatever. It's pretty over the top and egotistical.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 12:53 PM
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People have always talked about secret societies, it is rubbish to claim that people are attacking the jews when they are talking about secret societies.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light


Yes. Most anti-Masonic conspiracy theory, especially that of the 20th and 21st centuries, is also tied to anti-Semitism in one form or another.


Prove that all anti-masons are anti-semitic.

You can't.

I usually expect more from a Mason than mere opinions masquerading as fact.

You say it so factually. Yet it's so un-factual.

Any proof you can provide, is purely individualistic and only reflects the actions of 1 small group/person.

You said "most anti-masonic conspiracy theory", but in reality, that cannot be substantiated at all.

Do your best.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 12:59 PM
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Masons, and assumedly the Freemasons before them, are a non-denominational organization that actually claim a bit of their origins to the Jews and the builders of the Jerusalem Temple, as well as the Egyptians and their big constructions. It started as a secret order of skilled mathematicians and architects who wished to keep their valuable geometry and math tricks to themselves. These days, the organization is more of a social and political organization, but it still allows pretty much anyone to join who is willing to abide by their philosophy and laws, regardless of their religious affiliations.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:05 PM
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There are two people of great interest to me biographically at the moment. One is Albert Pike, top-ranking Freemason.


Based on a vision revealed to him, Albert Pike wrote a blueprint of events that would play themselves out in the 20th century, with even more of these events yet to come. It is this blueprint which we believe unseen leaders are following today, knowingly or not, to engineer the planned Third and Final World War.



Pike was said to be a Satanist, who indulged in the occult, and he apparently possessed a bracelet which he used to summon Lucifer, with whom he had constant communication. He was the Grand Master of a Luciferian group known as the Order of the Palladium (or Sovereign Council of Wisdom), which had been founded in Paris in 1737. Palladism had been brought to Greece from Egypt by Pythagoras in the fifth century, and it was this cult of Satan that was introduced to the inner circle of the Masonic lodges. It was aligned with the Palladium of the Templars. In 1801, Issac Long, a Jew, brought a statue of Baphomet (Satan) to Charleston, South Carolina, where he helped to establish the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite. Long apparently chose Charleston because it was geographically located on the 33rd parallel of latitude (incidentally, so is Baghdad), and this council is considered to be the Mother Supreme Council of all Masonic Lodges of the World.


www.threeworldwars.com...

Albert Pike is responsible, in part, for our modern world disorder. He wasn't just anti-semetic, he was anti-life.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by andy1033
 


Okay. But also, keep in mind that people always have been anti-semetic. People who are anti-semetic has dated back since before the time of Christ, and, what-not. Is there any reason to believe that there weren't people who were anti-semetic who criticized secret societies for these reasons? Perhaps it could have been anti-Christian in origin... but I'm just wondering if it could have been anti-semetic given all of the historical hate against Jews.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:32 PM
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Ok so now we have masons saying anti-masons are Antisemitic.

And then we have the anti-mason calling the Masons Antisemitic.

So both sides called each other jew haters.

Therefore, it is merely a way to name call.

There is no way to come to a legitimate conclusion because both sides of the argument are blindfolded by their own beliefs and prejudices.

Its like wandering through a labyrinth filled with fog. Good luck finding your way out.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by Northwarden
www.threeworldwars.com...

100% hoax. There were no letters between Pike & Mazzini. Carr made them up, and everybody since then has just quoted Carr.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Masonic Light


Yes. Most anti-Masonic conspiracy theory, especially that of the 20th and 21st centuries, is also tied to anti-Semitism in one form or another.


Prove that all anti-masons are anti-semitic.

You can't.
But he didn't say that. He said, specifically "Most anti-Masonic conspiracy theory, especially that of the 20th and 21st centuries, is also tied to anti-Semitism in one form or another."

I've been on here long enough to know that Masonic Light chooses his words carefully. And his statement is fully supported by the evidence.

Start with the two queens of 20th century conspiracy theory, and perhaps the two most cited by conspiracy authors who've come since them... Nesta Webster and Edith Starr Miller (aka "Lady Queenborough"). Then move on to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion; Hitler's own words about Freemasonry in Mein Kampf...



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 


You're right. And as usual the regulars on ATS will say you are wrong.

There are books written about Jews infiltrating Freemasonry. Look at the Bolshevik revolution as well.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 03:27 PM
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It seems probable that the tying in of the idea of a Jewish/Masonic global conspiracy (a "tag team" force, if you will) being heavily predicated of course on hatred of the Jews, with the spurious allegation, still believed today, that "International Jewry" was behind the genesis of all Freemasonic organizations towards sinister ends, had its origins in propaganda begun by officials in the Russian secret service.

en.wikipedia.org... Zion#Emergence_in_Russia

Russia has had a long, deep seated foundation in anti-semitic thought and writings, also having persecuted Freemasonic institutions I believe.
A good book on this I hear, and one I want to read very soon, is Norman Cohn's Warrant for Genocide: The Myth of the Jewish World Conspiracy and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


Re. Carr/Mazzini ... Do you have any background there?

Anyway. The whole article is far from "made up"; and Pike was, perhaps still is the worlds highest ranking Freemason with 130 degrees in honourific titles from multiple orders, principally the Scottish Rite. Pike has left us a lot of material to work with, rolling over in his grave as he might be about it. Don't try to "hoax" the real significances or you'll simply see it fleshed out, and be proved wrong in the end.

Where would you say we look to find 'more accurate" information?



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by Northwarden
reply to post by JoshNorton
 


Re. Carr/Mazzini ... Do you have any background there?
The search bar at the top of the page? Type "Pike Mazzini hoax", and see all the times it has been brought up on ATS before.

And again, I defer to Masonic Light who explains it well...
www.abovetopsecret.com...


Anyway. The whole article is far from "made up"...
Actually, there's plenty of "made up" crap in the article:
  • Pike was never "Grand Commander of North American Freemasonry", he was the head of the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction, and had no authority over Freemasons who were neither members of the Scottish Rite, nor members of the Scottish Rite outside of the Southern Jurisdiction.
  • Pike was never a member of the KKK
  • Pike was never "said to be a Satanist" except by modern detractors
  • Pike was never a member of the "Order of the Palladium"... that's part of the Leo Taxil hoax, which Taxil admitted to
  • Pike could have never written a blueprint for 3 world wars that used the word Nazi, as the term didn't exist when he supposedly wrote it.
    etc...


    Where would you say we look to find 'more accurate" information?
    Actually read what Pike wrote instead of what other websites say he wrote...
    sacred-texts.com...



  • posted on Apr, 30 2010 @ 07:05 AM
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    reply to post by Northwarden
     


    First of all, Pike did not have a magic bracelet that he communicated with Lucifer with. He had a communicator he spoke to Captain Kirk with. get it right. Secondly, he could never ever in a million years turn over in his grave, and I can guarantee it. (he is buried standing up in the walls of the House of Temple in D.C.)

    Please, when you read a story that sounds too fantastic to be true, remember what "they" always say about those things.



    posted on Apr, 30 2010 @ 07:39 AM
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    Originally posted by Cabaret Voltaire
    reply to post by Frankidealist35
     


    You're right. And as usual the regulars on ATS will say you are wrong.

    There are books written about Jews infiltrating Freemasonry. Look at the Bolshevik revolution as well.




    Or worse, they might lack any creativity of their own, steal your avatar and then go around posting in the same threads to do. Yeah those regulars can be a real pain.



    posted on Apr, 30 2010 @ 08:20 AM
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    Originally posted by muzzleflash


    Freemasonry derives loosely from a Christian Knightly Order, historically.


    No, it doesn't. Freemasonry dates from the craft guilds of medieval stonemasons in England and Scotland, as is evidenced by the Regius Mss., Freemasonry's oldest known document.



    The Anti-Masonic movements of 100-150years ago were entirely political in nature, and had nothing to do with religion or race at all.


    Most historians would disagree, as religion played a very large role in the 19th century anti-Masonic movement.




    By saying it is tied to Antisemitism is merely condemning anyone with an opinion as a Nazi or whatever. It's pretty over the top and egotistical.


    Not at all. The majority of today's anti-Masonic conspiracy theories actually have their origin in the Nazi Party's anti-Masonic propaganda campaign, especially those conspiracy theories that attempt to tie Freemasonry to Zionism.


    Prove that all anti-masons are anti-semitic.


    I never said they were. Most, however, have been deceived by anti-Semites.


    You said "most anti-masonic conspiracy theory", but in reality, that cannot be substantiated at all.


    Actually, it can be, and quite easily. The Nazi Party released the SS handbook "Freemasonry Interpreted" by SS Reichsfuhrer Dieter Shwarz, which was the Nazis' official propaganda booklet on the subject. The ideas presented there by Nazi officialdom are still today parroted by many anti-Masons, regardless if they are unaware of their own source.



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