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Smoking nets huge profit even after health bill.

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posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 05:33 AM
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Smoking nets huge profit even after health bill.


www.tobaccoinaustralia.org.au

17.4.4 Net positive impact on government budgets?
We know that the total costs of tobacco use to Australian society are very great. But what is the picture if we look more narrowly at the current levels of revenue from taxes on tobacco products in comparison to the total levels of expenditure by federal and state governments that result from tobacco abuse?
Tables 17.9 and 17.10 indicate the impact of tobacco abuse on federal and state budgets in 2004–05.
Table 17.9
Impact of tobacco abuse upon the federal government budget, 2004–05, ($m)
Outlays $m $m Receipts $m $m
Health
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 05:33 AM
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With the announcement that the government is doing yet another thing it was not elected to do while dumping more it promised to do I went on the research expedition. It was hard to track down these figures from the Cancer Council, but I found them. I would just like to make people aware of how much the government and the newspapers are ignoring the truth to get more money from us.

Every newspaper is constantly reporting that smoking costs the economy. While true this statement does not factor in the taxation. In reality after health expenditure there is a massive profit into Federal coffers.

Now with the increase by 25% that will bring revenue from cigarettes after factoring in health and social expenditure to a whopping 4.35 billion dollars. This comes from the cancer council too. One of the most anti smoking lobby groups there is. What are the thoughts of others now this has come to light.

www.tobaccoinaustralia.org.au
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 06:09 AM
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reply to post by pablos
 


You're dead right Pablos...Toady's announcement was yet another cynical move by this government...Sprouting crap about the evils of tobacco on one hand, yet perfectly happy to keep on raking in the tax dollars from same and do they allocate even half of the tax take to health ?

Nope...Not even close...

Rudd has been frantically running around with his Liberal-lite cohorts creating smokescreens (pardon the pun) since they went soft-cock on the ETS...

The hypocrisy of this announcement is astounding...And to bring forward the excise increase to midnight today to stop smokers "stocking up" on the slightly cheaper cigarettes is juvenile in the extreme...

This government will be remembered as the most pathetic Labor government this country has ever seen...The right wing has completely destroyed what Labor once stood for, hence we now have two choice in federal politics...

Liberal/National and Liberal-Lite



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 06:34 AM
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reply to post by Retrovertigo
 



Amazing that the average Australian thinks that tobacco is a cost to the economy not a revenue raiser.The media is happy to present the figures of how much expenditure is incurred from tobacco related illness but refuse to follow this up with amount of revenue collected.Even fiercely anti smoking individuals should be disturbed at the sheer omission of data in these media presentations.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 06:44 AM
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Originally posted by pablos
reply to post by Retrovertigo
 



Amazing that the average Australian thinks that tobacco is a cost to the economy not a revenue raiser.The media is happy to present the figures of how much expenditure is incurred from tobacco related illness but refuse to follow this up with amount of revenue collected.Even fiercely anti smoking individuals should be disturbed at the sheer omission of data in these media presentations.


It is amazing, Pablos...Just goes to show how stupid your average Australian is, and yes the media are almost as guilty as government when it comes to perpetuating these myths...

As a smoker, I often bite my lip when I hear non-smokers crap on about how much it costs the health system, etc...Lest I beat the # out of them for not having a clue what they're talking about...

Given the amount of income tax and tax on cigarettes I've paid over the years, I have every right to be treated for lung cancer or any other smoking related health issue I may end up with...

I've paid for it, I deserve it...Simple

Great thread too Pablos, btw



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 06:56 AM
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reply to post by Retrovertigo
 


Melbourne Demons will rise again.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 06:59 AM
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reply to post by pablos
 


Im pissed off they treat smokers like second class citizens,
The news last week said that overweight australians are straining the hospitals more then smokers, Are they going to tax fat people next?
This is a greedy government !!!
Bloody hotdog 747 kevin.
Do we really get OUR money's worth from the governments we pay ?



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 07:01 AM
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I agree - this is a good point - and a good thread ... thanks

I think most people I know are aware of the taxes - and the amounts the Government collect, and the 'blame' and 'shame' thats slathered onto smokers. With the number of quitters over the last years I think there plan of getting people to stop smoking has hit them in the pocket - the revenue amounts they were collecting have declined significantly - so we are making up the taxes for those who have given up, and in the next few years the projected $6.00 rise a packet will come into being - and I wont be suprised if it is more. I spoke to my tobacconist today and he said each 6 months there is a government increase anyway - actually there are 2 price increases.

These will stay on place as well - its going to be more than a $6.00 rise over 3 years for sure.
Theres a few talk shows tonight taking up the offer to see what people think.

Smigs



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 07:03 AM
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Originally posted by pablos
reply to post by Retrovertigo
 


Melbourne Demons will rise again.




Will ?? They're already doing it...



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 07:06 AM
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reply to post by trueblue
 


I totally agree. But in an election year what do you think Krud will do?

Alienate 18% of the population that smoke.

Alienate the ever growing 60% that are overweight.

The choice is His.

Just another example of him doing not what he was elected for, but introducing things no one wanted.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 07:06 AM
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It's the same over here mate.

If everyone did what the government want and stopped drinking and smoking, the deficit that would be left in the economy from loss of taxes would bankrupt the country virtually overnight. The same could be said for most western countries.

The Man finally got me to quit by simply making it too expensive to carry on.

God how I miss a smoke with my beer...



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 07:15 AM
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Alright.. this might not be the place to bring this up, please do feel free to ignore me lol.. but on the topic of cigarettes, i find it strange that TPTB on one side, really do not give a toss about the people...at all.. our foods are filled with chemicals, our water and air itself as well, big Pharma pollutes the body and is encouraged for the people to use..yet they are raising taxes on tobacco products, putting slews of bans and laws and rules into effect in order to stop us, the populace from smoking at all claiming their concern of our health? Is it either 1-just a show to make the people think they care and are looking out for us, or 2- its the same psychology as when a child is told not to do something and they then want to do what they were told not to, more.. ?
odd

Interesting artical OP


[edit on 29-4-2010 by Full_Vision]



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 07:16 AM
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reply to post by Retrovertigo
 


Bit early for this guy to be so optimistic but heres hoping. Damn it's time to go to work! See you all in the morning.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by Full_Vision
Alright.. this might not be the place to bring this up, please do feel free to ignore me lol.. but on the topic of cigarettes, i find it strange that TPTB on one side, really do not give a toss about the people...at all.. our foods are filled with chemicals, our water and air itself as well, big Pharma pollutes the body and is encouraged for the people to use..yet they are raising taxes on tobacco products, putting slews of bans and laws and rules into effect in order to stop us, the populace from smoking at all claiming their concern of our health? Is it either 1-just a show to make the people think they care and are looking out for us, or 2- its the same psychology as when a child is told not to do something and they then want to do what they were told not to, more.. ?
odd

Interesting artical OP


[edit on 29-4-2010 by Full_Vision]


On the contrary Full Vision, this thread is definitely the place to bring these points up


I'm inclined to think its (1) - just a show to make people think they care and are looking out for us...

The examples you mentioned show nothing could be further from the truth, the way the government cynically increases its tax grab on tobacco products and particularly the way it spends so little of this money on health initiatives tells me its all a ruse to try and give us a false sense of governments caring about us...



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 07:30 AM
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reply to post by Full_Vision
 


Interesting question.

I also question the lethality of smoking, not that it's not bad for you of course. It's just that the levels of cardiovascular and pulminary desease have risen by loads since the days when WAY more people smoked and it was allowed everywhere.

I've always said that if smoking was a lethal as the "experts" claimed, then by the 60's, everyone would have died, as the few that didn't smoke would have constantly been engulfed in secondary smoke.


[edit on 29-4-2010 by nik1halo]



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 08:13 AM
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reply to post by Full_Vision
 

Smokers are just the latest socially acceptable political scapegoat.
It has nothing to do with what the government thinks is "good" for us and everything to do with the distraction of the general populace in times of political uncertainty.
When Government feels the pressure of a discontented public they draw from a narrow field of political scape goats to create a feeling of consensus among the majority of the citizens.
Very few politicians are prepared to go out on a limb and find a new minority group to scapegoat.
So for any period time in history you can find a "safety goat" a group that you can routinely scapegoat and still receive support from the broader community.As time progresses the actual group may change but the basic principle remains the same.The particular scapegoat that you can safely demonise can be easily framed for such scapegoating via the media through propaganda campaigns,government announcements, policies and "findings".In this case the media have done an excellent job in presenting only a portion of the facts to facilitate the widespread objection to smokers within the broader community.
With most citizens believing that smokers cost the government money and have created a strain on health care, when in fact revenue outweighs expenditure i would say it was a highly successful campaign launched by the media and government to dehumanise smokers.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by mumma in pyjamas
reply to post by Full_Vision
 

Smokers are just the latest socially acceptable political scapegoat.
It has nothing to do with what the government thinks is "good" for us and everything to do with the distraction of the general populace in times of political uncertainty.
When Government feels the pressure of a discontented public they draw from a narrow field of political scape goats to create a feeling of consensus among the majority of the citizens.
Very few politicians are prepared to go out on a limb and find a new minority group to scapegoat.
So for any period time in history you can find a "safety goat" a group that you can routinely scapegoat and still receive support from the broader community.As time progresses the actual group may change but the basic principle remains the same.The particular scapegoat that you can safely demonise can be easily framed for such scapegoating via the media through propaganda campaigns,government announcements, policies and "findings".In this case the media have done an excellent job in presenting only a portion of the facts to facilitate the widespread objection to smokers within the broader community.
With most citizens believing that smokers cost the government money and have created a strain on health care, when in fact revenue outweighs expenditure i would say it was a highly successful campaign launched by the media and government to dehumanise smokers.


Amazing! Will you marry me?



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by trueblue
reply to post by pablos
 


Im pissed off they treat smokers like second class citizens,
The news last week said that overweight australians are straining the hospitals more then smokers, Are they going to tax fat people next?
This is a greedy government !!!
Bloody hotdog 747 kevin.



WHAT did you say about hotdogs?



posted on Apr, 30 2010 @ 04:15 AM
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reply to post by trueblue
 


It's amazing what people can get away with saying about smokers!Without anyone batting an eyelid.They have indeed become second class citizens.
Dirty, stupid, unintelligent etc.
There was a most ridiculous barrage of hate towards smokers posted recently on a comments board linked to a story about the changes proposed for the cigarette pack on the Yahoo seven "news" headlines page.
Someone, rather dumbly stating that one smoker was needing to 'have some intelligent conversation" because they suggested the PM has no business imposing his morality on the public.What an intelligent and insightful addition to a debate, 'have some intelligent conversation" to someone who rather verbosely expressed objection to the PM's latest political distraction.
Irony?



posted on Apr, 30 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by pablos
 


I was 17 in the mid 70's and you could smoke anywhere. Late after school, I remember sitting on the bleachers in the gymnasium though I can't remember why. Teachers were gone and someone at the far side of the gymnasium lit up a cigarette. I watched the space over his head fill with rising gray smoke. By the end of his cigarette the smoke filled the entire ceiling over 2 basketball courts and was beginning to drop toward me at the far side of the huge gym.

After seeing that I never questioned people who complained about second hand smoke.



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