It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by Dermo
Fair enough.. Don't blame the Greeks, blame the ones who don't pay any of their taxes, blames the ones who suck up every social welfare service they can and blame the ones in power who lied..
Originally posted by Dermo
reply to post by Retrovertigo
Definitely.. The only thing is that people here are so weird about the EU overall, jumping into a new currency while also allowing a new supranational government to control all those fiscal policies would have been too much for people back then.. Maybe also now unless its through necessity.
As far as I know, the same German professors who mounted their big court cases against Joining the EURO are the ones blocking the bailout..
One has to wonder.. do these men know what they are doing.. Even though I understand completely where they are coming from
Originally posted by Retrovertigo
Originally posted by alienesque
hi both of you..
so what should the people have done?...everyone they voted for carried on with the scam...and when they voted for another party they turned out to be just as bad..
so..my question is...what should the people have done?
Its clear Greece has the amongst the highest levels of corruptions at all levels of its public service, from government down...
Surely the judiciary or some sort of anti-corruption authority should be in place to investigate government and public sector corruption ? I know in Australia government deception like this would not stand...They'd be lynched and/or prosecuted...
If not, people should have demanded anti-corruption authorities be set up and people prosecuted...Surely other political parties must have known what was going on, and surely they must have made this public and surely the public should have listened...
But nope, as I said, the public were perfectly happy to keep on receiving that middle class welfare and other benefits whilst the budget deficits kept on piling up...
Why would they complain when they directly benefited from the deception ?
Its clear Greece has a deeply ingrained culture of corruption and living beyond its means thru its entire society...
That needs to change fast, or the Greek people are seriously going to play with pain...
Originally posted by alienesque
thats the WHOLE problem here....lies and corruption within the EU..and thats another reason why the greek people should not have to pay...
Originally posted by Retrovertigo
Originally posted by alienesque
thats the WHOLE problem here....lies and corruption within the EU..and thats another reason why the greek people should not have to pay...
Lies and corruption within the EU does not excuse the lies and corruption of successive Greek governments, the Greek people allowing said lies and corruption to flourish and the Greek peoples fondness for lapping up middle class welfare even tho it meant mounting budget deficits...
These things pre-dated Greece joining the EU, so its not unreasonable to suggest that Greece' troubles may not have been discovered for much longer had it not joined the EU...
If this had happened, Greece may well have been a basket case with no help from external sources...And you can well imagine what that scenario would look like for the Greek people...
Greece is lucky it joined the EU as it now has a "knight in shining armor" coming to its rescue...If only its people would shut up and accept the terms attached to the help...
Whether you and I like it or not, Greece must adopt these measures if it is to survive, there is NO sensible, viable counter argument to that...
Edit to add - Look...You keep editing your posts well after you've made them which is making it nigh on impossible for me to address the points you make...At this point I won't be debating this with you further, as we are not going to see eye to eye on this and are only going to engage in circular arguments...
[edit on 30/4/2010 by Retrovertigo]
Originally posted by alienesque
see is explaining whats going on in the EU..and its not nice..if you ask me this whole problem right now is an attempt to cause a huge problem so they can then push through EU wide financial control...
[edit on 30-4-2010 by alienesque]
Originally posted by alienesque
[hi..sorry..i didnt mean to get things confused..
we dont agree...but thanks for the discussion....maybe im wrong..
Originally posted by Retrovertigo
Originally posted by alienesque
see is explaining whats going on in the EU..and its not nice..if you ask me this whole problem right now is an attempt to cause a huge problem so they can then push through EU wide financial control...
[edit on 30-4-2010 by alienesque]
In that case there's two choices....
1) A central body controls fiscal policy for all EU nations...Or
2) Break the EU up
The EU can't remain in place without 1...The events of the last 2 or 3 years have proven that...
And if 2 happens, the economic carnage for many of the former EU states will be enormous...
Like it or not, the EU is here to stay unless the member states are prepared to suffer economic Armageddon should they choose to split...
Originally posted by andy1033
You do understand that there is not enough jobs for everyone, lol.
On issue the anglo american empire should pay for this as they are the ones who in london and new york effectively wrecked the system.
Originally posted by alienesque
they know exactly what they are doing...and they are totally correct in doing it..
Originally posted by Dermo
Either way Germany may have to fork out hundreds of Billions.. There is however, only one way that it will get most of it back.. And thats with a Greek bailout.
And also, seeing as the rest of the EUROZONE are forking out an equal share per capita to help Greece, if Germany keeps stalling on its share and the system collapses, then welcome to a Europe that hates Germany once again.. How long until that becomes widespread in politics and policy?
Greeks may also be shifting money out of the country in the face of higher taxes and more austerity measures. Deposits in Greek banks fell for a third month in March, leading to a 4.5 percent drop in the first quarter. That coincided with a fourth monthly increase in deposits held in Cyprus by local branches of Greek banks on the island.
Originally posted by alienesque
i agree...and i say it should split...economic armageddon is better than having a united states of europe forced on us by a bunch of unelected bureaucrats....THAT is hell....
Originally posted by Maya00a
Personally I think it's all a plan to bring in a central fiscal authority to control the finances of all the Euro countries.