Germany, IMF, ECB call for sped-up action on Greek crisis as more negative signals emerge

Germany, IMF, ECB call for sped-up action on Greek crisis as more negative signals emerge

news.xinhuanet.com

BERLIN, April 28 (Xinhua) -- German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Wednesday that Greece were not allowed to repeat another Lehman-like contagious crisis, and bailout talks should be sped up, as Greece, Portugal and Spain's credit rating were downgraded successively by international agency in less than 48 hours.

"The handling of the Greece case shows that everyone knows we cannot allow the same situation with countries as with Lehman Brothers,"

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Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Greek/EU Crisis - Why not blame the Greeks?

Germany "will make its own contribution" in pulling Greece out of crisis, if the Athens was determined to implement its austerity measures in next few years, Merkel said.

It is very much in the interest of the richest EU country, Germany to negotiate a bailout with Greece based on a Greek austerity program.

Germany is not new to this game and understands that reasonable standards of economic improvement must be accomplished and verifiable.

news.xinhuanet.com
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reply to post by plumranch


You are right they are not new to the game. Kinda makes me wonder just who is holding the so called cards and why. Germany has come to the rescue before let us not forget the past. We need to look back to see forward sometimes.

I am totally ignorant when it comes to money matters and stockmarkets and have little interest in the subject but i have to ask, why cant the money people just print more notes and give it out to the populace so they can pay off their debt? Is it to simple to work?Or should i stick with aliens and conspiracy subjects?

Originally posted by 12voltz
why cant the money people just print more notes and give it out to the populace so they can pay off their debt? Is it to simple to work?Or should i stick with aliens and conspiracy subjects?

It would be great if it was that simple but generally speaking, its not.. Unless you are China..

Because 1)

Most of these Central Banks are owned by private investors so the countries have to borrow the funds needed from them at interest.. Which IMO is one of the biggest scams ever..

And 2)

Because of the openness of the markets, printing large amounts of money and dumping them into the system will bring down the value of the currency as the supply and demand will decrease with investors on the markets.. This usually has dire long term consequences.

reply to post by 12voltz

why cant the money people just print more notes and give it out to the populace so they can pay off their debt? Is it to simple to work?Or should i stick with aliens and conspiracy subjects?

Germany tried that after WWI. It made their currency nearly worthless and collapsed their monetary system. It's worth reading up on.

so.. better stick to aliens for now. LOL!

reply to post by plumranch


Na what they should do is get the uk and america to pay for it all, seeing as the anglo american empire did this.

reply to post by andy1033

Na what they should do is get the uk and america to pay for it all, seeing as the anglo american empire did this.

And how is this not the Greeks' fault? Elaborate?

Originally posted by plumranch
reply to post by andy1033

 

Na what they should do is get the uk and america to pay for it all, seeing as the anglo american empire did this.

And how is this not the Greeks' fault? Elaborate?

by that i guess you mean the greek people?..

what can they do about being attacked by bankers and corrupt politicians?

plenty of greeks have to have 2 or three jobs to get by...and now they are being asked to pay the money back that was stolen from them...

its disgraceful..

reply to post by alienesque

by that i guess you mean the greek people?.. what can they do about being attacked by bankers and corrupt politicians? plenty of greeks have to have 2 or three jobs to get by...and now they are being asked to pay the money back that was stolen from them... its disgraceful..

Practically no one on this board knows the Greek issues.

The Americans understand why GM is going under. It is either because of excess union demands or poor GM management depending on you viewpoint.

Where are you going to place the blame in the Greek demise?

Originally posted by plumranch
reply to post by alienesque

 

by that i guess you mean the greek people?.. what can they do about being attacked by bankers and corrupt politicians? plenty of greeks have to have 2 or three jobs to get by...and now they are being asked to pay the money back that was stolen from them... its disgraceful..

Practically no one on this board knows the Greek issues.

The Americans understand why GM is going under. It is either because of excess union demands or poor GM management depending on you viewpoint.

Where are you going to place the blame in the Greek demise?

corruption...its easy...our 'leaders' are self serving criminals..the people of greece need to say no and pay absolutely nothing back...they are screwed either way..so why bother paying?..to save the EURO?..im sure thats one of the reasons for their situation...why then should they be expected to be the fools who have to pay to save it?..

the world elite want the EU at all costs..we in germany are now starting to see EU flags flying at our police stations for god sakes...

every single nation who was asked about the EU said no..all of them...and yet we can be expected to pay for it all?

nope..its time to say enough is enough and to fight back..

[edit on 30-4-2010 by alienesque]

[edit on 30-4-2010 by alienesque]

How is this breaking alternative news? It's all over the mainstream press...

Originally posted by alienesque
nope..its time to say enough is enough and to fight back

Some chance of that happening though.. Its after taking control of almost everything in the continent..

I must say that I don't agree with what you said about this not being the Greeks fault..

In all fairness.. They are the epitome as to why Socialism such as that does not work.. They were too corrupt at a government level and too inefficient at an economic level.. Capitalizing off the cheap credit they could get as a result of being in the EURO and using that to fund social services without any means to pay it back..

I mean, Im in Ireland at the moment and while things are bad.. We still have 36% less Public debt to Gdp than Greece so they must have gone to town..

Noone else is to blame except them.. you cant blame the system because its the same system that made them rich in the first place..

Originally posted by Dermo
I must say that I don't agree with what you said about this not being the Greeks fault..

In all fairness.. They are the epitome as to why Socialism such as that does not work.. They were too corrupt at a government level and too inefficient at an economic level.. Capitalizing off the cheap credit they could get as a result of being in the EURO and using that to fund social services without any means to pay it back..

I mean, Im in Ireland at the moment and while things are bad.. We still have 36% less Public debt to Gdp than Greece so they must have gone to town..

Noone else is to blame except them.. you cant blame the system because its the same system that made them rich in the first place..

This is one of the best posts on this issue I've seen on ATS

This is VERY much the fault of the Greek people as much as anyone else, corporation, government or otherwise...

As Dermo has quite correctly pointed out government corruption, a bloated and overpaid public service who get benefits like leave loadings and bonuses that don't get paid to workers in many other parts of the world, and Greeks continuing to benefit from overly generous middle-class welfare have caused this to happen...I do not accept the notion people are not responsible for the actions of their governments...

Its government lied about its finances to get into the EU and continued to lie about its finances right up until the moment it knew it was in too deep...And today we get the Greek finance minister saying "We have been asked for a cut which we do not accept", referring to the EU and the IMF demanding Greece cut salary bonuses to public sector workers...

Guess what ?

Don't make the cuts and the taxpayers of other EU countries might just tell Greece to get stuffed and default...I know if I were in one of those countries bailing Greece out with my money I'd be rioting in the streets over it...

Frankly, for the EU to survive Greece needs to be cut loose and allowed to default and whatever happens to Greece happens...

It is not fair to jeopardise the economic well-being of other EU nations in order to save Greece from its own fiscal and monetary stupidity...

Edit to add - Even tho you edited your post halfway thru me replying, I dont have a lot further to add, really...Lazy, apathetic public got what they deserved, time to shut the hell up, do what the rest of the EU and the IMF say or suffer economic collapse...Its that simple...

'nuff said...

[edit on 30/4/2010 by Retrovertigo]

hi both of you..

so what should the people have done?...everyone they voted for carried on with the scam...and when they voted for another party they turned out to be just as bad..

so..my question is...what should the people have done?

if you mean that maybe they are guilty because they were just as apathetic, distracted and dumbed down as the rest of the worlds population..that its their fault because they didnt see what was happening i guess your right..but should gullibility and laziness (regarding the political situation) be punished so hard?..surely the real culprits..the people who have created the system of dumbing down the people and distraction..to thencome in and rob them..are the REAL guilty parties here?

agaian..if naivity and political laziness can be taken advantage of in this way then we are all guilty if the same thing happens to our countries..?

i say no...sure..the people should have seen what was happening..but its hard when you are being attacked from all sides..from the media..from politicians....industrialists and bankers..

[edit on 30-4-2010 by alienesque]

Greece should be thrown out of EU:s Economic and Monetary Union ASAP!

Originally posted by raivo
Greece should be thrown out of EU:s Economic and Monetary Union ASAP!

the euro should be scrapped and the whole United States of Europe lie should go with it..

Originally posted by alienesque
hi both of you..

so what should the people have done?...everyone they voted for carried on with the scam...and when they voted for another party they turned out to be just as bad..

so..my question is...what should the people have done?

Its clear Greece has the amongst the highest levels of corruptions at all levels of its public service, from government down...

Surely the judiciary or some sort of anti-corruption authority should be in place to investigate government and public sector corruption ? I know in Australia government deception like this would not stand...They'd be lynched and/or prosecuted...

If not, people should have demanded anti-corruption authorities be set up and people prosecuted...Surely other political parties must have known what was going on, and surely they must have made this public and surely the public should have listened...

But nope, as I said, the public were perfectly happy to keep on receiving that middle class welfare and other benefits whilst the budget deficits kept on piling up...

Why would they complain when they directly benefited from the deception ?

Its clear Greece has a deeply ingrained culture of corruption and living beyond its means thru its entire society...

That needs to change fast, or the Greek people are seriously going to play with pain...

reply to post by alienesque


Good point..

But isn't it up to the people to monitor the government? Also, wasn't it the people who allowed themselves to be allured by governments offering ridiculous amounts of public spending and in return, massive amounts of Greeks wouldn't pay any taxes simply because it was a cultural thing..

Fair enough.. Don't blame the Greeks, blame the ones who don't pay any of their taxes, blames the ones who suck up every social welfare service they can and blame the ones in power who lied..

Who's left?

Here in Ireland, anyone with half a brain blames ourselves and our government planners for our issues.. We made our cuts and they were painful. We didn't look for any help except advise.

The Greek government won't make the social cuts needed because the people won't allow them.. They want to take down the EURO and by proxy half of the world market.

Originally posted by Retrovertigo
Frankly, for the EU to survive Greece needs to be cut loose and allowed to default and whatever happens to Greece happens...

It is not fair to jeopardise the economic well-being of other EU nations in order to save Greece from its own fiscal and monetary stupidity...

If only it were that simple..

The thing is there that as soon as Greece were (Illegally) ejected from the EUROZONE, the Speculators would immediately attack those who are in a similar Position. Portugal first, then Spain/Ireland, then Italy because they think that should these countries have problems, they will also be ejected.. So the markets will be betting against them big time because their bond value will not be secure.

There doesn't seem to be any easy solution here except a massive bailout and a federally controlled EU fiscal policy across all EUROZONE states..

Its a messy situation we are in at the moment.. And the German courts are blocking the whole thing..

Originally posted by Dermo
If only it were that simple..

The thing is there that as soon as Greece were (Illegally) ejected from the EUROZONE, the Speculators would immediately attack those who are in a similar Position. Portugal first, then Spain/Ireland, then Italy because they think that should these countries have problems, they will also be ejected.. So the markets will be betting against them big time because their bond value will not be secure.

There doesn't seem to be any easy solution here except a massive bailout and a federally controlled EU fiscal policy across all EUROZONE states..

Its a messy situation we are in at the moment.. And the German courts are blocking the whole thing..

Definitely, Dermo...

Setting the EU up without a centrally controlled fiscal policy was a major blunder...Having a 16 country union with 16 disparate fiscal policies was always going to have problems at some stage, all it takes is one nation with "loose" (for want of a better word) fiscal policies and the whole house catches fire...

You're right, it isn't as simple as I suggested as far as just cutting Greece loose goes...

I'll play devil's advocate here...If Greece were thrown out of the EU, and speculators then bet nations like Portugal, Spain and Ireland would "collapse" and be next, wouldn't this simply be a case of a free market operating efficiently ?

I'm not saying I agree with this type of speculation at all, just throwing it out there is all...

Definitely a messy situation...

As far as the German courts blocking things goes, they seem to be pandering to the public in that country...Seems a lot of Germans are loathed to allow their money to be used in bailouts given the circumstances in Greece...

Obviously if Grecee' situation was no fault of its own at all, taxpayers in most countries probably wouldn't have a problem, but under these circumstances, who could blame them for not wanting their own governments to go further into debt to bail out others ?