BREAKING: Proof of survivors in Smolensk!

I wasn´t talking about the guys in the background as survivors, i mean the one in white clothes (where the vid zooms in) ~0:40 and the one running from the gunshots ~ 1:00. I can also see someone standing on the cockpit ~ 0:55, but that could be my imagination.
I think the guys in the background are killers.

reply to post by Raud


WTF, i hear a bang and immediately can see the shot hitting the ground... more 1:06 though. Even the subtitles say shot (in polish) at that moment.

Love this comment on youtube:
Who ever posted this on ATS and said these people were survivors is a govt shill, paid blogger, hitlers right arm.

Yeah...

[edit on 29-4-2010 by euleberlin]

If you want to create a conflict, it is wise to control BOTH sides. MAYBE, just maybe the cameraman WAS in on it?

The Illuminati do not have a loyalty to any country. I am sure Putin is a part of it. So they, the people at the scene, did their job, the vidoe guy got some "decent" footage, can't be too good or people will think hoax right away. Make up a story the guy was assassinated and here we goooooooooooo!!!!!!!

What a ride.

Everybody argues, gets distracted, pays NO ATTENTION to anything else going on...............and so on.

Just a thought.

reply to post by Raud


Im with you...

I keep looking at the videos. I can't see an arm waving...or a man jumping from the plane...no matter how hard I try ...no matter how hard I look...no matter how creative I allow my visual cortex to become...I still can't see what other people see. Maybe I need to become Autistic or something.

And gun fire....again...I hea some loud pops....but have you ever been near a fire....it always makes loud pops and cracks. Its called heated gas escaping an object.

Also, does it not make a little sense, that if Russian agents were in the area shooting people. Then there would be other agents securing the area and clearing the area of any witnesses....like polish men with cameras. Even a slight amount of intelect can see that this is just rubbish.

Originally posted by Raud

Originally posted by Recouper
"Don't kill us!"
"BANG!"

Well, that seems to pretty much sum it up really, doesn't it.

And you know this from where?
Because you did research yourself to back up and confirm these rumors?
OR:
Because you chose to blindly believe something someone wrote on the internet?

If you watch the footage with the sound up you can hear a guy say "Don't kill us" in Polish and then you can hear a gun shot.
I wasn't referring to something that requires extensive independent research to comprehend. I was talking about footage taken at the scene which has conveniently been analysed and translated in an easy to understand and transparent way.

Sometimes a rock is simply a rock. If you want to come up with something more convoluted, there's nobody stopping you but shouting "that rock is not a rock" in everyones face is unnecessary.

reply to post by daddio


I have to conclude that is more plausible than he just happened to stroll in unchallenged in the middle of a Russian Special forces clean-up operation. Still doesn't make much sense though.

reply to post by OnceReturned


It is incredible how humans can survive air crashes. Keep in mind that the speed of the aircraft was probably less than 200mph as it was landing and the trees, though tearing away wings, etc., helped even more to slow the impact. Given that large sections of the fuselag are intact certainly allows for survivors and some could be walking around in shock.

The one instance show in the green box appears to me to be a badly burnt person's head and body.

Of course, on-lookers and looteres would have swarmed to the scene, and the Russian military, never know for its compassion, would have fired at or on the looters. That happens frequently in Third World and even more advanced countries. To the poor it is an opportunity and knowing suffering all too well, they can overlook the immediate horror for what they can gain from it.

reply to post by euleberlin


Alright, there is a (faint) sharp sound there, I'll give you that.
Can be a twig snapping, a battery exploding, a spray can bursting...or maybe a gunshot or bullet discharged from the heat...real hard to tell.
There is a sound. That's all I can say.
Is it related to what can (barely) be seen at the same time?
I have no idea. My gut feeling goes with "nah".

So my question is:

Why is there not another media outlet picking up the Andrei Mendierej story?

I mean, that's news ... I don't care where you live. If it's true.

I know if this whole conspiracy is real ... certainly it would lead back inevitably to the those who "run" the world. Take your pick: Illuminati, Bilderburg, etc. etc. - and a media black-out would be a simple matter ... just ask Rupert. But, for only one "news" outlet to pick up that the Andrei Mendierej story seems a little far fetched. I don't care how much Murdoch can control mass media ... there would be more professional journalists picking up on this ... if it had any merit of truth to it.

Anyway ... I'm not buying anything regarding the cameraman until I get a little more back story. Who was he? Where was he from? Where is his family? Why haven't we heard from them? Etc.

reply to post by Recouper


Well my Polish office. 10 staff. Have looked at this...and they did not hear those words. In fact they said most of it was to muddled to translate. So put that in yor pipe and smoke it. They have been shocked by this event in their country , but they have all seen these videos and have come up with a different translation to what I have seen here.

reply to post by Pax et Intellectus


Oh they are working on that now BTW. I hope to have a PROPER translation soon.

Originally posted by Recouper

Originally posted by Raud

Originally posted by Recouper
"Don't kill us!"
"BANG!"

Well, that seems to pretty much sum it up really, doesn't it.

And you know this from where?
Because you did research yourself to back up and confirm these rumors?
OR:
Because you chose to blindly believe something someone wrote on the internet?

If you watch the footage with the sound up you can hear a guy say "Don't kill us" in Polish and then you can hear a gun shot.
I wasn't referring to something that requires extensive independent research to comprehend. I was talking about footage taken at the scene which has conveniently been analysed and translated in an easy to understand and transparent way.

Sometimes a rock is simply a rock. If you want to come up with something more convoluted, there's nobody stopping you but shouting "that rock is not a rock" in everyones face is unnecessary.

And you speak Polish, right?
And this guy, saying this phrase, he is the one being shot too?
How come his voice is so "clear" yet the gunshot heard from far away?
Doesn't add up.

I agree wholeheartedly with the last part though;
sometimes a horrible and extremely unfortunate plane crash is just that.

It's called "Occam's Razor".

reply to post by Raud


Well, you want proof but want us to listen to your gut feeling?
I demand an international investigation, not more, not less. Or atleast a real investigation, not this staged one...
polskaweb.eu...
babelfish.yahoo.com...

Fact is that Warsaw, which concerns the investigations stands there with empty hands. One does not even know reliably, how many humans actually died with the crash. Only hours after the disaster one had gotten a list from the office of the president, from whom the number resulted of 89 passengers and seven crew members. In first messages from Russia it, it meant 132 humans had on board been. Warsaw reported in this connection, with reference on diplomatic sources, of 3 survivors. But the Polish Secretary of Defense Klich naturally knows now and from where also always that no secret documents were on board and returned the Russians otherwise everything. That the Polish chief public prosecutor's office, which demands chairmen of the Katyn of victim federation and politician of the opposition the resignation Klichs because of handicap of the investigators proves which its statements is worth.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by euleberlin]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by euleberlin]

reply to post by Raud


Bingo...

The voice of reason that one. My thoughts are the same. I have a pretty good camera...but when I film with background noise and local noise...its pretty much impossible, without the aid of pro grear, to pick up voices from more than 10 meters away. By the time the camera had picked up that alleged statement, he was way more than 30 meters away as a conservative guess.

Plus I have my polish sales team working on a proper translation now. So you will all have a proper idea of what is said very soon.

This one is still up in the air for me. There are too many circumstances that have to be taken into consideration. The people at the beginning of the video look like they are witnesses who were near by, just like the cameraman. I am sure or at least hope that there are people in Poland going over this kind of stuff and getting to the bottom of it. In the end, it is up to them to figure it out.

reply to post by Raud


Raud, I'm certainly not trying to claim this particular conspiracy as fact. In fact, I would never do so with any theory without the data to back up such a claim. I'm also not tied up in this whole anti-Russia mind-set that seems to be propogated lately. With that being said, I don't see why we can't speculate, if the speculation is labeled as such.

While the gunshot theory is more than speculation, I can add conjecture on some of the points that you brought up. If those were warning shots, it would seem that a series of shots would be in a successive order, such as two or three shots in a row. However, those alleged gunshots were sporadic.

Also, I'd like to stretch a little by analyzing the sounds of those alleged gunshots a little further. If you listen closely, which is kind of hard to do, due to the quality of the audio, you can hear a small sonic boom or crack from the alleged gunshots (which would also provide further evidence of gunshots). If these rounds were fired into the air, the sonic boom would be more defined, as they would have full ability to carry their sound. However, these supposed sonic booms are quick and "cut-off", suggesting that they dissipated on a target or were subsequently stopped by something, ultimately suggesting that these alleged rounds were fired at a target close by, such as the ground or a body. Of course, warning shots could be fired into the ground (as it is some-what 'safer' to do) but most people, on instinct, fire warning shots, two, three at a time, into the air. Again, I'm not saying this as fact, but rather as conjecture. This theory is of course untested and I'm just spouting off the top of my head from my own experiences, or as I said, a far stretch so take it just as that.

Why did they not cordon off the area, as another poster mentioned? This is also easy to answer through logical speculation. In order to cordon off the area, you would need a vast amount of resources, particularly human resources. This brings more people than what you would want into the plot and certainly more people than any curious bystanders. Too many of those people would be able to talk about their experiences in cordoning off the area, before the crash that is highly suspicious. As far as shooting the onlookers as they show up, this would be more damning to the alleged conspirators than just trying to discredit them or deny their testimony. How would you explain a bunch of bodies that were not even on the plane?

As far as this conspiracy theory is concerned, I'm certainly not sold on it, as I simply don't have enough data. However, I am almost completely certain that those were gunshots. Of course, my first instincts or gut reaction would lead me to believe that something is amiss here but without more data, I'm certainly not ready to confirm or deny this conspiracy theory. I can however attest to it's plausibility, especially given that I am almost certain that those were gunshots and unlikely to be "warning shots". Just adding more pennies to the pile.

--airspoon

Edited to add: I should correct myself on the sound carrying through, it is both the sonic boom or crack and the pop or rapidly disharged pressurized gasses leaving the barrel that seem to dissapate on a close by target, not the crack or sonic boom alone.



[edit on 29-4-2010 by airspoon]

Complete fictional unfounded drivel. This is simple guess work from an over active imagination, there absolutely nothing in the video to suggest anything other than civilians who had got to the scene.

This post has reminded me why it has been 2 years since I visited ATS.

Originally posted by Pax et Intellectus
reply to post by Recouper

 

Well my Polish office. 10 staff. Have looked at this...and they did not hear those words. In fact they said most of it was to muddled to translate. So put that in yor pipe and smoke it. They have been shocked by this event in their country , but they have all seen these videos and have come up with a different translation to what I have seen here.

Haha, I lol'd at that!

I would think, however, that it's mostly Russian language that is spoken in the video (since the plane went down there and also because I speak Russian myself and recognize the language clearly).

There was a somewhat proper translation done (given the bad quality of the sound to begin with), but that one didn't fit what the non-Russian or Polish speaking straw-graspers wanted it to say...thus it has been ignored.

You can check it here.

double post

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Jdawg9909]

Take a moment and close your eyes and listen to just the audio as it tell more than the video ever will.

Regardless of language.

:48 - an argument ensues. most probably a warning to leave.

:58 gun shot

1:07 second gunshot

1:10 laughter from crowd

So obviously the gunshots were funny