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BREAKING: Proof of survivors in Smolensk!

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posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 02:20 AM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint
Or did i totally miss something????


I dunno...
Using logic and/or common sense maybe?





posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 02:21 AM
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Originally posted by Quickfix
My theory on the matter is, the U.S. corp. decided to get rid of a countries most important people with one swoop, President, vice pres., bankers, lawyers, and etc.



Why?

What evidence, if any, do you have to support your claim?

Or is this just another example of 'something bad has happened so it must be the USA's fault even though they have absolutely no motive to do it and there is nothing suggesting that they had anything to do with it'.

Just blind anti-US rhetoric which serves no purpose other than further muddying the waters.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 03:03 AM
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Not sure if the police or military were shooting survivors. If I were a Russian citizen and came upon this disaster and heard shots fired with men walking mysteriously around the area I would get back, away. Would not want to be next.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 03:16 AM
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reply to post by AR154
 





The people that were seen moving did not look like they had just survived that. Up out of their seats and walking as if nothing happened? I don't think so, look at that wreckage. The plane blew up into bits over a large area. I highly doubt anyone but superman could survive that intact. Proof would be going up to the wreckage, seeing someone still inside or crawling out who you can then talk to


I totally agree. Plus, I'm concerned about the translation. I've seen other translations of this video, and this is the first time I've heard any claim that someone is saying, "Don't shoot us" or anything relating to a gun for that matter. I'm not saying the translation isn't correct, because I have no way of knowing, but it seems those words would have been zeroed in on and publicized immediately once someone heard them.

From the start, I've been concerned about this video . . . I just don't get why if anywhere near 100 people died in this crash, we're not seeing the bodies. That's a lot of people and these videos supposedly were taken just after the crash. If this is the actual crash site, I don't see how there could have been anyone who survived, given the condition of the plane.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 03:16 AM
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sorry, double post.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by NightGypsy]



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 03:27 AM
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Originally posted by NightGypsy
From the start, I've been concerned about this video . . . I just don't get why if anywhere near 100 people died in this crash, we're not seeing the bodies. That's a lot of people and these videos supposedly were taken just after the crash.


Well, given the quality of the video and the distance kept by the photographer; we don't see much of anything.

What amazes me, however, is how people can take any frame from that clip, zoom in on it (thus making the quality extra sucky) and claim that they see all kinds of crazy stuff going on and then hand it over as "evidence"!

It's not funny because it's true.
:shk:





[edit on 29-4-2010 by Raud]



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 03:37 AM
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reply to post by Raud
 





Well, given the quality of the video and the distance kept by the photographer; we don't see much of anything.


I don't think this video shows any certain evidence of any survivors moving around, simply based on the points you mentioned above.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 03:53 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


Originally posted by Quickfix My theory on the matter is, the U.S. corp. decided to get rid of a countries most important people with one swoop, President, vice pres., bankers, lawyers, and etc. "

Why? What evidence, if any, do you have to support your claim? Or is this just another example of 'something bad has happened so it must be the USA's fault even though they have absolutely no motive to do it and there is nothing suggesting that they had anything to do with it'.


Yeah, I don't think the U.S. gets to put this one in it's pile of conspiracies. And besides, what does he mean by the "U.S. corp.?" What entity is this? This happens a lot. Conspiracy theorists don't realize that sometimes they wind up being just as closed-minded as their opponents . . .

"U.S. did it. Don't know why, but I'm sure they were in on it. I don't need to hear any other explanations--done deal."



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 04:05 AM
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What this video is showing is Russian citizens or probably looters that get chased away by the military . I mean just imagine what you can find in a crashed plane before the authorities arrive , and Russian citizens did not win the award for most compassionate people of the world lately .

And if they knew that this was a government plane , then I bet ya somebody wanted to get into that wreck to snoop around and see what valuable things they can pull out . I mean guns, laptops , cash, luggage , etc ... And the sheer curiosity of "what will I find inside a fresh wreck" .

I mean if a plane downed somewhere close to my house , I am almost sure I would be at the scene of the crash within minutes to see what is happening .



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 04:20 AM
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Hello! The people walking , heck everyone in this video who IS walking IS NOT A SURVIVOR!!! Why would survivors be walking from the forest, TO THE plane crash????.

Sheesh, I don't know, since the many of you missed this simple fact, I doubt my further breakdown of this video will be understood, or seen. To me it's plainly clear, easily seen on the slow motion zoom ins what is happening there.

That group is illegedly, and I believe an assasination squad coming to the crash, to make sure no one survived, especially the Polish President.


What the video plainly shows(to me).

The group of people walks into the crash site, and executes 3 maybe 4 survivors. Possibly more after the camera man said Screw this I'm outta here.

You can clearly see a survivor laying on the ground, in all white clothing (a pilot, or crew perhaps?), looking badly injured, waving helplessly at the camera man. If you can't see this guy, don't even bother looking for the other survivors that are shown in the video.

After that another survivor is seen jumping/falling from the plane, he is shot, and you can clearly see him fall to the ground.

There is also another clear image of a person firing a weapon at the ground, imo, killing another injured survivor. This is seen just to the right of the close up tree, on the zoom in.

As far as the translation goes. I have no idea. But I don't need to hear anything but the sound of small arms fire, single shots, execution style.

You all need to look more carefully at the footage.

As far as how the plane crashed. The best sources say the landing strip lights were moved a couple kilometers into the nearby forest of the airport, and the plane landed in the trees, its left wing sheer off, causeing more damage. If not for that, there probably would have been ALOT more survivors.

This assasination team was there waiting, just in case there were any survivors.

Whether or not who was behind this act, I have no clue. But many poles believe the russians did this, were behind the execution of the 4 survivors, and also were in charge of the crime scene, making it easy for them to hide the fact anyone was shot.

If not for this one guy and his camera the world would never have known this.

This video, imo CLEARLY shows the execution of at least 3 crash survivors, possibly 4, but the fourth it's not caught on film.

Go back and look at the video again now that you at least know who is the "survivors", and who is the illeged "assasination team".

Oh and as far as the "OBAMA" reference in the translation. From what I can gathering, the way it's writting, the word Obama, or a similiar word, in Russian or Polish is a profanity. It had nothing to do with the American president.


[edit on 29-4-2010 by Nola213]



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 05:03 AM
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Originally posted by Nola213
Hello! The people walking , heck everyone in this video who IS walking IS NOT A SURVIVOR!!! Why would survivors be walking from the forest, TO THE plane crash????.


This far, your post makes sense.
Too bad it kinda goes downhill from here...



That group is illegedly, and I believe an assasination squad coming to the crash, to make sure no one survived, especially the Polish President.


So, because it is "alledged" and/or "you believe so" it's true?



As far as the translation goes. I have no idea. But I don't need to hear anything but the sound of small arms fire, single shots, execution style


This kind of sums it up for all these pathetic "Katyn II" threads...

There is no effort made to investigate or research anything.
It's all just wishful thinking; going to whatever lengths to make this make-believe conspiracy add up.
This is no way of "denying ignorance".




As far as how the plane crashed. The best sources say the landing strip lights were moved a couple kilometers into the nearby forest of the airport, and the plane landed in the trees, its left wing sheer off, causeing more damage. If not for that, there probably would have been ALOT more survivors.


Do you mind sharing these "best sources"?
I'll share mine to begin with: www.huffingtonpost.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Huffington Postl


Whether or not who was behind this act, I have no clue.

Apparently.



But many poles believe the russians did this, were behind the execution of the 4 survivors, and also were in charge of the crime scene, making it easy for them to hide the fact anyone was shot.


And this you can support with some solid facts or not?
My guess: not.
You mean that they were shot...to hide the fact that anyone was shot?




This video, imo CLEARLY shows the execution of at least 3 crash survivors, possibly 4, but the fourth it's not caught on film.


This then has to be the first time a video CLEARLY shows something that is NOT shown in the video...




Oh and as far as the "OBAMA" reference in the translation. From what I can gathering, the way it's writting, the word Obama, or a similiar word, in Russian or Polish is a profanity. It had nothing to do with the American president.


And what is it that you gather? I mean, apart from making it all up as you go?

Watch it my friend...you are making a fool of yourself.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 05:05 AM
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First, thanks for all your answers and input. I´m certainly not here to get stars or flags, i just saw this video yesterday at polskaweb.eu , and thought i´d share before i go to bed. Thanks a lot that you brought it to the frontpage!
Didn´t know this version yet and was shocked by what i saw and surprised that no one was able to do this before (stabilized zoom).

One thing not mentioned in this thread i think (sry if i overlooked): @ 1:05 you hear a shot and can see the bullet hitting the ground.
A few seconds before you can see someone seemingly running away from the guys.

Thanks Nola123 for you summary, much appreciated! I hope polish investigators and media will look very closely to determine what really happened.

As for the Obama thing, i really don´t know, it´s from the translation in the comments under the youtube video.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by euleberlin]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by euleberlin]



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 05:22 AM
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reply to post by euleberlin
 


Well, before you posted this (surplus) thread, there were these ones:

Thread with same subject 1
Thread with same subject 2
Thread with same subject 3
...and probably more than those.
Almost all of them made first page too...you could easily have seen them...

The search option is your friend.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 05:39 AM
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Indeed, i saw those and thought, if i´d post the video in there, almost nobody would notice. This is new evidence that deserves it´s own thread imho.
If you look at my threads so far you´ll see i don´t post often here, i couldn´t care less about these flag and star stuff, i actually think it´s not good and would like to see ATS dismiss it.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 07:05 AM
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I can't make much out in the video, but then again my glimmers are getting worse, but there are people wandering around and gun shots are heard.

The cameraman then decides to make a swift exit.

And apparently he then get's stabbed and taken to hospital where someone turns his life support machine off and then stabbed him 3 more times.

Anyone know anything about Siberics?



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by AR154
I don't think so, look at that wreckage. The plane blew up into bits over a large area. I highly doubt anyone but superman could survive that intact.


you would be surprised at what the human body can endure.
people have survived the most unlikely situations.
dont forget this plane didnt crash by free falling from 30,000 feet...it was actually coming in to land...its speed was reduced...and the pilot wrongly thought the runway was there when it wasnt.

although you see parts of the plane scatterd everywhere...im sure that the main cabin (or at least large parts of it) remained fairly intact. id say there could be quite a good chance of a few people out of the 90 or so passengers surviving the crash.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 07:24 AM
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What bothers me is that anyone would actually be in the area to film anything.

If those are Spetsnaz, and further photos I have seen confirm this, then I doubt they would let anyone near the area if they are planning to execute survivors of a planned air crash.

As a matter of fact, that is not just highly improbable, it's close to unrealistic....



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 07:29 AM
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Looting is common at the scene of airplane crashes.

The plane crashed outside a military base so it is hardly suprising that some of the first people on the scene would have been military personnel.

Siberics anyone?



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 07:29 AM
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Oh dear....

sorry, double post.

[edit on 29/4/10 by Freeborn]



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 07:32 AM
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Originally posted by D377MC

What bothers me is that anyone would actually be in the area to film anything.

If those are Spetsnaz, and further photos I have seen confirm this, then I doubt they would let anyone near the area if they are planning to execute survivors of a planned air crash.

As a matter of fact, that is not just highly improbable, it's close to unrealistic....



Would you please share these "further photos"?
That would be awesome.

However, there were most probably soliders there since military installations are located in the vincinity and there was a serious accident of special character happening.

Of course the closest means of help would be sent to assist.
That's a given, isn't it?



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