The Arizona Bill on ILLEGALS, Answer Me This?

Originally posted by lpowell0627

Originally posted by Wildbob77
Personally, I think that he should be given a trial.

We can not reasonably afford to give them all trials. Those are paid for with taxpayer dollars and frankly, 'we' are tapped out.

Edit to add: In this particular case, I feel he should be brought to trial since there is an actual victim that should be entitled to restitution. Her rights should be protected no matter what. In general however, I do not think illegals should be given trials.



[edit on 28-4-2010 by lpowell0627]

Somehow, someway, we can cook the average guy for whatever.... The legal system works for some. Not so much for others. If we do fair trials for the accused, convictions and judgements can be just for the accused. It seems different now because everyone is accused. As in, guilty until proven innocent. It might be just me, but, it seems too all inclusive. Anyone can fit the mold that is developed for them.

Back to your point, we have gitmo. In Cuba nonetheless. They are not given trials either. They are captured and imprisoned. The weakest will say what they want to hear. Lies abound.

Originally posted by rcwj1975
As a LEO I need Probable Cause or atleast Articutable Reasonable Suspicion to make a traffic stop or stop someone on the street.

What ever happened to needing EVIDENCE a crime has been committed. Probable cause is the most destructive phrase to a free-society. Just look at the word... Probable.

"They were PROBABLY breaking a law, so I arrested them."

There are people of ALL professions who simply suck at their jobs and tend to break rules to do things THEIR way, BUT what about those of us who do the job right and do come across ILLEGAL aliens?

A fine Arizona sheriff has brought this point up. (God no, not Arpaio). If police were DOING THEIR JOB TO BEGIN WITH. This legislation would be unneeded.

Stop looking for people to violate petty traffic statutes to meet quotas. And start arresting people who COMMIT CRIMES.

And stop with this probable cause nonsense. P.S. (at everyone else, not the op)

There's not actually a law requiring ANYONE to carry some form of ID on them. And until someone can start citing LAWS when they say "it's a law"...

I'm going to continue to believe so.

This is America, time to start acting like it.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by mryanbrown]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by mryanbrown]

Originally posted by rcwj1975

Originally posted by Wildbob77
Personally, I think that he should be given a trial.

If found guilty, he should have to pay his fine, do his time and then immediately be deported.

I think that he should have to wait a minimum of 5 years before he would be eligible to get a visa to come to this country legally.

Oh I agree, he should get his trial and his car should be sold and his VICTIM given the money for restitution. Or given his car period....

He needs to answer for what he has done, then yes deported, BUT thats is the main issue here. He was arrested by me (local LE), so should WE have the power to execute the deportation papers, or should we hope that ICE will do so, or release him back to the streets of Atlanta? I think this is why AZ made this bill. They are sick of the FEDS refusing to deport, skirting the issue, and allowing these guys back out there to do it ALL OVER AGAIN.

Hello rcwj1975-

The answer to you question is of course yes, but I don't agree with wildbob77 or your agreement that there should be a trial and jail time. Why would we want to spend more money on a trial and jail, we already know they are guilty, I know it sucks for the victim, maybe there should be a law in place that gives all money and property to the victims that the illegals have hurt.

On top of that we should always take everything they own when caught and make them use money they have (if they have any) to pay for there own ride back to mexico and for government fees. Charge like 2k to take them in those run down busses and if they don't have it take whatever they do have and use that so less taxpayer money is used on sending them back.

Our biggest problem with this is the government. The reason they don't do anything is becuase they want the Mexican vote. With our country being flooded like a plague all the politicians want are votes. Mexicans have kids like popcorn (and drain our system) and the politicians want the parents vote, and the kids. If the parents are illegal, they will just wait for the kids to turn 18 becuase they pop out like 4 kids which is even better than 2 votes the parents would give.

In the end I agree with Arizona and hope more states follow so we can try and get this problem fixed. If anyone is wondering I live in Southern California and if you want to see some illegals come over here. Whites are the minority where I live.

Added- I would also like to say that in my opinion the people who seem to be on the sides of the illegals (beside all illegals and almost every Mexican) is either people who own a buisness and want cheap labor, the government for the votes and to destroy the middle class, rich people who want cheap labor for the house and yards, and whites who have been taught that being white is a bad thing and we should give everything to Minorities because we have do so much wrong to them (in there eyes).

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Trudge]

I've expressed my views on this before.

You want to solve the illegal problem? Then make the illegals legal.

Billions of dollars leave this country every week because of illegals sending money back to their family.

Make them legal. Make them pay taxes. All those billions will now be spent here in this country instead of supporting the economy of some other country.

You have to recognize the underlying issues of illegal immigration before we can solve the problem.

reply to post by rcwj1975


IMO the real villain in this story is Tyson Foods. Granted the illegal you snagged was a bad apple.

I was born and raised in the world of illegal immigrants. I live in San Diego, California.

When I was younger, I worked shoulder to shoulder with illegals (e.g. construction, greenhouses, landscaping, restaurants, you name it.). In general, they're some of the most gentle / beautiful (heart and soul) human beings I’ve ever had the experience to meet.

Times have changed; today there is a surplus of hands. The work force here is saturated. There's no shortage of illegal laborers, and unfortunately there are just not enough jobs to go around for everyone.

In a way, enough is enough. It’s time to draw the line.

Again, I feel the real villains are not the illegal workers but the illegal employers who make out by hiring them.

Yes, there's needs to be a strict system in place, which holds the illegal immigrant accountable for their actions. However, things could be easily resolved by going to the source of this problem, and that is self-serving illegal employers as-well-as an apathetic and thoroughly corrupt federal government.


[edit on 29-4-2010 by seasoul]

reply to post by Trudge


There are so MANY obviously racist statements in this. The only thing I can say is...

LEARN TO ACT LIKE A DECENT HUMAN BEING IN YOUR STATEMENTS.

Love this place.

I've seen a lot of ppl on here saying they want to send these guys to jail, make sure they have a trial and things like that but why?? I just did a quick google and found that in 2003, 270,000 illegals had jail time. I can almost bet that now that number is in the 500k if not more. Do you not realize how much money is being spent on food and shelter for these ppl? Send them back immediately. Why waste more of our money on scum when we can get rid of it?

Now to keep them out? Honestly just build a wall. I'd gladly spend money to see it built and patroled no problem. Atleast my money would be going to something worth it.

First off, i got nothin but love for ya, seriously. You seem to be a good cop with a level head on his shoulders, something that is common but not often seen. The only problem i have with this bill is the profiling..i've been there and it's so not cool chief. The idea that US citizen who looks Hispanic will now have to carry around IDs that really isn't needed...if our government actually took care of business and did work we wouldn't be in this kind of bid.

And there is too much room for abuse. The line is being crossed imo. After that, we does it stop?

reply to post by rcwj1975



I agree that his car should be seized and sold, along with anything else he had in there. I guarantee if I was doing that in Ohio my car would be impounded. I am glad to hear a police officer who who enforces this law of the land. I once heard two Indiana State Troopers talking. One was saying how he pulled over a sedan doing 90 in a 55. the driver, nor the wife could speak English, the child in the backseat, with no seat belt on, had to translate. The man had a legal Indiana Driver's License, but could not speak or read English enough to even read the license. That tells me that Indiana DMV was participating in the invasion, in some way. Kudos to you, friend, keep sending the illegals back.

Originally posted by grey580
I've expressed my views on this before.

You want to solve the illegal problem? Then make the illegals legal.

Billions of dollars leave this country every week because of illegals sending money back to their family.

Make them legal. Make them pay taxes. All those billions will now be spent here in this country instead of supporting the economy of some other country.

You have to recognize the underlying issues of illegal immigration before we can solve the problem.

Hello grey580

First, if you make 20 million illegals legal you will have 20 million more illegals here by next week.

Second, if you make them legal they will still send money back to mexico and on top of that the new 20 million illegals will now be sending money back to mexico on top of getting free stuff from our states and government.

Third, why reward people who broke our law to get here? Do you reward a child for doing what they were told not to? I don't understand your thinking, why reward someone for something that shouldn't be done it only encourages more of the same behavior.

I made an earlier post and who supports the illegals and i'm sure you fall into on of my categories. You either own your own buisness and want cheap labor, work in politics and want the vote, rich and want cheap house and yard work, or are white and ashamed of being white and feel that whites have done wrong to all minorities and you must right the wrong by supporting anything they do even if its breaking the law.

reply to post by rcwj1975


great post and thanks for getting the scum bags off the roads
personally i dont think anyone has a legitimate excuse to why? just her say, and jumping on the bandwagon of the obama kool aid train

Originally posted by cenpuppie
First off, i got nothin but love for ya, seriously. You seem to be a good cop with a level head on his shoulders, something that is common but not often seen. The only problem i have with this bill is the profiling..i've been there and it's so not cool chief. The idea that US citizen who looks Hispanic will now have to carry around IDs that really isn't needed...if our government actually took care of business and did work we wouldn't be in this kind of bid.

And there is too much room for abuse. The line is being crossed imo. After that, we does it stop?

omg they have to carry around another card the size of your drivers license that is SUCH a hassle man!! Seriously its a card geez.

This is just one more step to getting rid of ILLEGALS they're ILLEGAL they don't need to be defended they just need to go back to there home or go through the proper procedure.

And just as a side note, i love how many ppl on the board hate cops. They post videos of cops beating ppl and being d*cks but i never hear any praise for the hundreds of thousands of cops do good things every day day in and day out.

Sounds to me like we should also eliminate ICE. From what I've read in this thread, it sounds like we are paying for immigration enforcement and they "are not interested." Does anyone see a problem with this attitude.

For years, as a union rep., I too made numerous request to immigration enforcement officials to show up and check the legal status of employees that were being utilized by our competition. I even offered to meet them at the site and I agreed to provide coffee and donuts for the LEOs. Never once did they show up, even after telling me that they would be there.

After five years of lobbying the Washington offices of Immigration Naturalization Services to at least do a check for compliance regarding I-9 employment forms on both, our union and our competition, They did. The union had the highest compliance rate of any U.S. employer at the time. Our non-union competition was found to be 75% non compliant. No arrest were made and no deportations followed. All the while, the union continued to lose jobs to these illegal employees and their illegal employers.

If we are serious about wanting to solve this problem of illegal immigration, then we must demand Mandatory Jail Time For Employers, found to be guilty of employing illegal immigrants. Never once have I seen an employer go to jail for violating this law. At best they are fined and the fines are cheaper than hiring Americans. Put these unscrupulous employers in jail and you will solve this problem. So long as we continue to only focus on the illegal immigrant and ignore the employer we are fundamentally pissing into the wind, if you know what I mean.

Originally posted by mryanbrown
reply to post by Trudge

 

There are so MANY obviously racist statements in this. The only thing I can say is...

LEARN TO ACT LIKE A DECENT HUMAN BEING IN YOUR STATEMENTS.

Love this place.

Please tell me how anything I posted was racist thanks.

Added- I also find it funny that you would just use caps and yell out something rather than have a normal conversation and give me your opinion of what I said that is so wrong. See its people like you who just yell out things and don't listen to the other side that are another one of our biggest problem here in the United states you don't learn because you don't listen.

Try and remember this.... you will never be always right and to learn you must listen. We may have different views but if you would post your view instead of YELLING AND THEN LOGGING OFF it can be a learning experience for both parties. We are on this earth to learn but how can you learn if you don't listen??

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Trudge]

reply to post by rcwj1975


That's fine. You stopped him for speeding. You didn't stop him because of his race or ethnicity.

Here is your answer: There is NOTHING you can do to make sure that an illegal gets deported. NOTHING!!

It is up to the FEDS, the ICE scum, to decide when and how a person gets booted from this nation. It is NOT the job of a local cop to enforce Federal law. In fact, unless specifically cross deputized and sworn as a Federal agent, it is not legal for a local cop to try and enforce the Fed laws.

The Federal courts have spoken: In a case concerning a few counties in Southern California that claimed that Fed law overwhelmed state law and that they could hide behind the Fed law so they would not have to apply state law ( medical cannabis case), the FEDERAL courts said NO!!

The Supreme Court refused to hear the appeal, and that means that locals cannot claim Federal authority. Locals cannot simply demand that the Feds take the people. If ICE cuts them loose, and you do not like it, do what they have ben telling US to do all these years : Write your congressman and complain...maybe they will change the law!!

If cops would just do their local jobs and forget about what happens to the accused after they are booked, maybe we would see more local crime suppressed. it is NOT your job!! your job is to apply local ordinance and state law...not worry about Federal law and ICE matters.

I look forward to the day when cops are too afraid of being whacked to abuse ' suspects' rights....and I also look forward to the day when local cops stick to their jobs, what the PEOPLE want from them, and forget other jurisdictions issues. What the People want from coppers is for them to get thieves from stealing our goods while we work...keep armed robbers and rapists from harming us, and using their time to make our towns safer.

We do NOT want cops spending vast time and money on chasing pot smokers and skateboarders, so of course that is what they concentrate on the most!! more arrests are made in this nation every year for petty pot busts than for ALL OTHER CRIMES COMBINED!!!!

We see where your priorities are, Officer, and until you forget the Fed law and kids, we cannot put much stock in your laments about the Feds not doing their jobs...just do YOURS and the rest will work itself out.

If you want to deport aliens, then join ICE....otherwise get back to protecting and serving the locals, and that means forget all the fed stuff.

reply to post by rcwj1975


As a fellow citizen of the state of Georgia, I am very glad to see a law enforcement officer who understands,respects, and dispenses the law equally.

Especially when that comes to Federal Law and how it applies to the states. (I am from the ATL. We are getting a bit of a rep for uneven dispensation of the law)

It would make me very, very happy if our legislature passed a similar bill and other finely tuned officers, such as yourself, were able to enforce it with an even hand.

Great thread.

S & F!!

reply to post by Trudge

Mexicans have kids like popcorn (and drain our system) and the politicians want the parents vote, and the kids. If the parents are illegal, they will just wait for the kids to turn 18 becuase they pop out like 4 kids which is even better than 2 votes the parents would give.

Now see, I think that would be enough evidence to point out, that's racist. And ignorant, beyond any doubt.

But some mods lately seem to be in support of unconstitutional legislation and will remove posts critical of the racism popping up like wildfire in these posts if you don't have a long enough, absolutely direct post.

EDIT: My added @ your added. I really don't care to listen to the other side. I'm not looking to do the christian thing. Because turning the other cheek accomplishes nothing.

No one seems to be aware of the rapidly declining state of common sense in America. And comments like the one you made, further prove that.

So let's hop on a scale.

Is my just stupid and odd comment in caps worse than your racist bigotry?

Nope.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by mryanbrown]

reply to post by richierich


This is why I am of the opinion that, because states can make their own laws, our state of GA should follow suit.

This is about as 10th Amendment as it gets.

Remember that before the 14th Amendment, we were STATE citizens.

I think that it's about time we took that right back from the Feds.

They seem to be doing a horrible job.

Originally posted by richierich
Here is your answer: There is NOTHING you can do to make sure that an illegal gets deported. NOTHING!!

It is up to the FEDS, the ICE scum, to decide when and how a person gets booted from this nation. It is NOT the job of a local cop to enforce Federal law.

While this is true if the person is convicted of a felony then he will be deported once his sentence is served.

Some have said that he should be deported ASAP and if you think about the money spent housing and taking care of criminals it makes sense but if he is deported without jail time and is back in the US within a week how does that deter him.