The Arizona Bill on ILLEGALS, Answer Me This?

This is all making me sick. For all those protesting Arizona, take a walk in LA look around at all the illegal immigrant neighborhoods that are expanding as fast as the big bang. Garbage everywhere! 20 bodies to one house or apartment, gridlock almost 24 hours a day on the freeways, almost every Mexican girl I have come across has kids by 18 then goes on welfare. Try getting food poisoning out here!!! Good luck puking and crapping yourself while having to go to 3 or 4 hospitals because the are all overloaded with sick illegals. Youll end up laying on the cold nasty floor waiting 4 hours to be put out of your pain. Or how about a good car wreck for ya, some ahole rear ends you but ofcourse he has no insurance, youre screwed.
Gangs everywhere! I cant walk down the street without being catcalled, I cant go to home depot because they practically chase my car for me to give them work and when I dont they call me names like Puta (whore) all because I didnt pick up these fine folk.
I was once in real estate. I kid you not every home that had illegals had the worse roach problems, funny, only their homes!
So Im sick of all this BS protesting, Its simple, if you are here illegally than you should be deported. Id have no problem whatsoever being racially profiled if I knew I was legal. I welcome it. Id say sorry guys, no catch here, what about that dude across the street.
Big Freakin deal. I hope Cali follows Arizona its a freakin mess over here.

If you have read any of my many posts on threads dealing with this issue you'd see how vehemently disgusted I am with the whole Illegal Immigration ordeal.

I agree with you whole heartedly, and its frustrating that people are so naive as to think that every illegal who comes here is just seeking a better life through hard honest work.

I myself have experienced similar situations to what you mentioned, I was rear ended in my brand new car (that I had saved up for almost 5 years to buy) by a illegal driving a $300 car. He had no license, no insurance, and to put it simply, I got screwed. I have nerve damage from the spinal problems it caused, and to this day my hands and feet hurt and tingle.

I see how people would feel compassionate for people who come from a bad place, but until they see the dark side of the issue, like you mentioned, and like what I witness every day here in Los Angeles, they have no clue what this whole ordeal is about.

If these ILLEGAL people were such ambitious, hard working people, why dont they just work hard to make THEIR COUNTRY a better place for them and their families. Instead, they come here and rape our systems that we have worked hard for over 200 years on, laughing all the way at the stupid americans who pay for them. I am fed up with being taken advantage of.

These people, ( not to be racial, because illegal immigrants come from MANY countries) come here ILLEGALLY, demanding rights, feeling entitled to OUR wealth, OUR resources, OUR medical care... Then, they have the audacity to question and wonder why we want to kick them out?!!?

I know as a LEO you know the legal system. If I get pulled over and receive a DUI, should I expect to be let go, using the excuses:

"well, Im a hard working honest person. Its not right for you to single me out and pick on me!"

" I came from a bad place, you should feel sorry for me and leave me alone"

" I know what I did was illegal, but this is America! Cant you just let me go?"

"Well, yeah I was breaking the law...but the US government has broken the law MANY times! Look what they did to the Indians!"

I would never expect these excuses to work, and especially nor should anyone who comes here illegally.

Like I said, I am so fed up. I cant believe these bills haven't been proposed sooner.

I cant stand to see our country just turn a blind eye to people who flee a poor country, come here, then slowly but surely start to turn our country into something similar to what they risked their lives running away from.



Sorry to vent

[edit on 29-4-2010 by WhiteDevil013]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by WhiteDevil013]

I wonder what will happen when a “legal” immigrant commit a crime? How soon will the illegal immigrants’ line just blur with immigrants and then the general ethnic cleansing? You can already see the blurring on this site which is becoming sooo funny! And of course, let's not forget all the potential broad ramifications all over the world.

A lot of you who are trying to raise some concerns over this are just wasting your time and energy.

Originally posted by rcwj1975
As many on ATS know I am a Law Enforcement Officer in Georgia and have been keeping an eye on the many threads posted about the new Arizona ILLEGAL Immigration Bill. Reading so many posts you see such a broad spectrum of beliefs, ideas, emotions, etc...but I haven't noticed many commenting on the following.

As a LEO I need Probable Cause or atleast Articutable Reasonable Suspicion to make a traffic stop or stop someone on the street. The Arizona Bill fear is that cops will profile and stop "hispanics" for just simply looking hispanic and forget about PC or ARS. Is that a valid fear, sure. There are people of ALL professions who simply suck at their jobs and tend to break rules to do things THEIR way, BUT what about those of us who do the job right and do come across ILLEGAL aliens?

Case in point. I mentioned on another thread that the other day I stopped a 2009 Ford Mustang doing 89 in a 55 and the driver happened to be "hispanic". Now the driver could not produce a valid drivers license, BUT handed me these awesome FAKE International Drivers Licenses they get for $50 here in Atlanta. Now after a few checks it was confirmed he was not licensed to drive the vehicle so he was arrested. Now, this driver is 24 years old working at Tyson Chicken driving a $30,000 car...ok fine, but then while searching his person I find a Social Security Card in his wallet and the card ended up being stolen and this scumbag was using and DESTROYING the credit of an elderly woman in the area, while he was thriving. Anyway, the car was impounded and I charged him, taking him to the jail. So I ask you folks...as a LEO KNOWING (100%) that this guy is not only a criminal...he IS an ILLEGAL alien from Mexico...should I and my State have the power to make sure he is deported back? Or should I do what we have been doing for years....call ICE and tell them what we have, only to be told they are not interested? Sounds like AZ was sick of hearing this answer for everyone they wanted to get out of their cities.

Someone, PLEASE give me a legitimate answer as to why local police and other agencies should NOT be allowed to deal with these guys/gals directly and get them out of here. What reasoning could you possibly come up with when the stop was legit, the arrest was legit, the lack of citizenship CONFIRMED, and he/she IS caught doing criminal deeds? You don't need to be a "fed" to check the status of citizenship....that is called an excuse by the Government to make the rest of the populace actually believe locals can't enforce this BS!

EDIT TO ADD: He had NO passport, NO visa, NO nothing....and yes he did admit he paid a coyote $200 to come across somewhere in TX....

[edit on 4/28/2010 by rcwj1975]

You already have enough to arrest the suspect. Let the courts decide his fate and move on. We have laws in place to handle situations like this.

We also have methods in place to handle identity theft. It is a terribly long process but it's there.

If we make the police the "cop, judge, and jury,” it is inevitable, someone's civil rights will be walked on. Our law enforcement is already overworked as it is.

On a side note:
With all the horrors happening in Mexico, is it any wonder why people want to move away? I know I would. Part of the whole immigration solution is to help stabilize the region. Help our neighbor’s country to grow. Everybody wins.


-subfab

Some people are criminals. Is it really about the race card? Illegals should be deported, most especially if they are criminals. It's that simple.

I really wish you would refer to yourself as a peace officer but that's another thread altogether. The problem with deportation is that the door is wide open for a repeat performance. The states are going to have to do what the Feds have either been unable or unwilling to do and secure their borders. Then they should turn around and sue the Fed for all costs incurred as part of their failure to live up to their constitutional obligations. The states additionally need to understand that their is a growing militia contingent that would aid in this endeavor if called upon which is the right of the Governors to do so.

I was t-boned by two illegals, I had 5 people pull over as witnesses to the accident and when the police arrived it was determined that they were illegal aliens, no papers whatsoever and the car belonged to someone else. The police officer told me that I could file a complaint but it was going no where and would be a waste of my time. So I ended up with a busted car by someone that should not have been here in the first place.

And now that I dare espouse Patriotic beliefs I get labeled a potential terrorist while foreigners are given free reign to run amuck in complete circumvention of real laws. The States have got to win the hearts of their populace and protect them from this Rogue Federal Government.

reply to post by rcwj1975


The illegal should be shipped directly back across the border. And georgia SHOULD FOLLOW ARIZONAS LEAD, with one change....we should have powers equal to what mexico honestly give its citizens, citizens arrest powers(which I believe is one american citizens can make anyway). In mexico, they are restrictive with laws in regards to foreign persons on their soil.

Its sickening to me that the law in arizona says while you can question the driver, you can't question anyone else. The law overall IS a step in the right direction, they are catching hell, as are the rest of us.

We need to solve this issue. If the feds will not enforce our laws, naturally states and citizens must step in. I mean jiminy christmas!! We've been bent over and kicked too many times and for too long by failure to enforce our borders, oh yeah, some people enjoyed cheap illegal labor, but the ramifications(sp) of that is unforgiveable. Its a known fact, that if an illegal person commits a crime (regardless of what) there stands a good chance, so long as they elude initially, they can simply move to another area, grab another name and keep it moving. I've been hit by one person who caused a 7 car pile up, who had no license or anything, and sme story as I've seen already, the officers hands were tied, the dude got a ticket, and on court day, the person never appeared, and all victims had to deal with our own insurance companies.

Heck....I've been in court, and watched countless Dui's walk away, with their interpreters and all they had to do was drop a fistful of cash. More than once have I seen this occur, those facing charges of driving with no license, registration, insurance, dui, smirk as they drop cash and walk away.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by ahmonrarh]

In response to the original question, It's been my experience that most people with power will abuse it.The more they abuse it, the less they think about abusing it.Lawmen are no different with exception to how profound the impact. I met lawmen that were drug dealers,child molesters, and I seen recently in the media,murderer. I know not all of them are like that, but they are out there and the trust has been lost for most.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Hillbilly123069]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Hillbilly123069]

Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by rcwj1975

Originally posted by Wildbob77
Personally, I think that he should be given a trial.

If found guilty, he should have to pay his fine, do his time and then immediately be deported.

I think that he should have to wait a minimum of 5 years before he would be eligible to get a visa to come to this country legally.

Oh I agree, he should get his trial and his car should be sold and his VICTIM given the money for restitution. Or given his car period....

He needs to answer for what he has done, then yes deported, BUT thats is the main issue here. He was arrested by me (local LE), so should WE have the power to execute the deportation papers, or should we hope that ICE will do so, or release him back to the streets of Atlanta? I think this is why AZ made this bill. They are sick of the FEDS refusing to deport, skirting the issue, and allowing these guys back out there to do it ALL OVER AGAIN.

ITs why we need to close down a couple of the 700 bases around the world and divert the funds to BOARDER enforcement, technology and the like.

I would NOT give this person trial in the strict sense, why pay for his sentencing and housing? (just me)

Put him on the other side of the boarder, which would hopefully be triple funded and fully staffed, so he cannot come back.
[edit on 28-4-2010 by Janky Red]

Totally agree. This is one of the problems we have here in the UK with immigration (and believe me, we have our problems). Why should you, as law abiding, tax paying US citizens pay for these people to be incarcerated, for their food, clothing and medical welfare? Just send them back after a fair trial, assumung that they are found guilty that is. Don't even give them the cost of air fare. Just drive them up to the border and tell them to start walking.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
Personally, I think that he should be given a trial.

If found guilty, he should have to pay his fine, do his time and then immediately be deported.

I think that he should have to wait a minimum of 5 years before he would be eligible to get a visa to come to this country legally.

Anyone not a citizen can't ever immigrate here if they have a felony conviction here or even in their own country. At least that is what I have been told by immigration officers. They would never be given a visa either for being a past criminal.

I agree he should be prosecuted just like anyone and then deported.

I would say send him back. He is having a better live than me and he is illegal!!

Wouldn't a sherrif have the authority to deport him?

I figure LEO detains them then sherrif comes in and sends them back to where they came from.

As to 'racial profiling issue'... if your countrymen obeyed the statutes and force of law being enacted then it wouldn't be a problem would it? I say profile away, sometimes the un 'pc' method is the way to go.

reply to post by rcwj1975

Someone, PLEASE give me a legitimate answer as to why local police and other agencies should NOT be allowed to deal with these guys/gals directly and get them out of here. What reasoning could you possibly come up with when the stop was legit, the arrest was legit, the lack of citizenship CONFIRMED, and he/she IS caught doing criminal deeds? You don't need to be a "fed" to check the status of citizenship....that is called an excuse by the Government to make the rest of the populace actually believe locals can't enforce this BS!

It's quite simple, actually. Because if this law succeeds, the next step will be the issuance of Voter ID cards.

And we can't let that happen, for obvious reasons.

First off, I think it ought to be a bumper sticker, but probably not good to post here.... "**** the FED." The Federal Government selectively enforces whatever its whims are at the moment and seems to be sending the message that it is okay to break the law. Fine for the very wealthy to break it. Fine for the very poor to break it. Now.. all we need is for the middle class to join the ranks of lawlessness!

Seriously OP - look at the questions you are raising. Is it okay for the police or other government "agencies" to choose what laws/policies it will enforce and when? Are we to the point that even law enforcement is questioning breaking with the law and established procedures?

Oh boy - is that a great sign of confidence for days to come!

And what the hell - seems the US is at liberty to detain anyone indefinitely these days. If law enforcement applies to enforcing the law on both sides of the equation... we might get somewhere.

reply to post by rcwj1975


Thanks for your service as a police officer, and yes even police officers deserve to be thanked if they are doing their job well. Thank you for getting rid of that illegal sob who was doing that to that poor old lady...

Every time I am stopped, which is very rare as I have no need to run, I thank the policer officer who stops me. He/she is trying to do his/her job and keep the streets safe.

For example a couple days ago I couldn't sleep and it was 3 AM, and I decided to take a drive and buy some food when a police officer stopped me. He thought I was coming out of a bar and that I could be drunk, but of course I wasn't. He asked for my drivers license and registration which I gave them to him, he did a quick check, everything was fine and he let me go, and apologized telling me he thought I was drunk. I thanked him and shaked his hand for trying to keep the streets safe. The whole thing took 3-5 minutes.

If you are polite to the police officer everything will be ok, unless you truly broke a law which will get you a ticket or a day in court. However, if you become disrespectful and don't do what the officer tells you you will get into trouble for not cooperating.

I only had a bad ordeal with a police officer once, although it was my ex-girlfriend who actually had the ordeal as the officer put his hands all over her, making indicent comments, and when she came back home she was crying and told me about it. I tried to find who it was but she would not tell me, and it could be because we might have known that police officer since both of us where working our way into joining the police academy in Miami Florida, and we knew several officers.

Unfortunately you will find some people, even police officers who are like that just like you find some aholes in all ways of life, but that doens't make all police officers bad people... Only a few are bad in most cases.

I am a hispanic man, who escaped with my parents Communist Cuba for political, and religious reasons, and became a U.S. citizen in 1993.

I am against illegal immigration, and people should know that the problem with Phoenix Arizona being the second city in the world with the most kidnappings is because of ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION...

Not all but MOST of the people involved in kidnappings are from the Mexican drug cartels, and they are not only kidnapping but they are bringing an influx of drugs which increases the problems in the states.

Two thumbs up for Arizona for passing this bill, let's hope Texas and ALL states in the Union pass similar bills against illegal immigration.


[edit to add comments]


[edit on 29-4-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Greetings rcwj1975,
Sir, it's an honor to be a respondent to your question. Until scumbags like Bill Maher redefine "legitimate," there are no justifiable reasons to embrace these drug dealers, felons, thugs, murderers, rapists, gang bangers, and child molesters from Mexico.

The official "determination" that illegals are all legitimate came from Prince Charming of Chappaquiddick, the world's most famous perfect-crime committer, sen. kennedy, when he announced to the world that illegals are all "decent and hard working."

John Cornyn agreed, and voted for the "cloture" vote that almost got the MCCAIN Kennedy amnesty bill passed.

The weak-minded, brainwashed main stream media agrees with the world's most perfect murderer that illegals "deserve" voting-amnesty. obamaminidjad immediately voiced his support for border jumper drug dealers, gang bangers, and for all the rest of the 39 million illegals domociled in the US.

Rcwj1975, I think it's a good idea to ask about the money trail. How are the mob demonstrators in Arizona being paid?

Transportation, meals, lodging, incidental expenses?

In the past the (tax-payer funded) National Communist La Raza and other Communist front organizations paid the expenses of mob demonstrators used during voter-registration drives for illegals. That's back when it was common to display the US flag upside down under the Mexican flag.

So, are our tax dollars again flowing into the pockets of these Mexican mob demonstrators?

Many thanks, Rcwj1975, for posting your query.
Adonsa

Originally posted by rcwj1975

Someone, PLEASE give me a legitimate answer as to why local police and other agencies should NOT be allowed to deal with these guys/gals directly and get them out of here. What reasoning could you possibly come up with when the stop was legit, the arrest was legit, the lack of citizenship CONFIRMED, and he/she IS caught doing criminal deeds? You don't need to be a "fed" to check the status of citizenship....that is called an excuse by the Government to make the rest of the populace actually believe locals can't enforce this BS!

EDIT TO ADD: He had NO passport, NO visa, NO nothing....and yes he did admit he paid a coyote $200 to come across somewhere in TX....

[edit on 4/28/2010 by rcwj1975]

Hmm legitimate answer huh? First states have no authority over immigration matters that power was given by the founders of this country to our legislative branch. You know the same constitution you choose to uphold when you enforce the law?

So lets say the states were given the power to enforce this how would they deport people? Who would man the systems to track who is deported and who hasn't been? How would you check to see if they are a greater threat the US than just an illegal? Better yet who is watching you to make sure that you aren't just removing people you want to? Each state would tackle it differently with no uniformity. You are going to drive every illegal immigrant you find to a border? What about the illegal’s who aren't from mexico or Canada are you going to fly them to their country? You know you can't right?

There is a reason we have refugee status and asylum status in the United States, there is a reason you can't deport people back to certain home countries. People don't grasp all of that when they think about illegal immigration, all they hear is oh Mexican’s lets get them out. There are a lot of illegal’s in the US good majority are Hispanic but what will you do with the ones that aren't? You only going to deport Hispanic people? Mexico doesn't want people from any other country out there.

NOT TO MENTION IT'S NOT A CRIME TO BE HERE ILLEGALLY, by AZ making it illegal they are circumventing the Federal law on the matter. It's an admistrative offense, hence why immigration court isn't a criminal court, look it up it's called Present without Admission. By doing that they violate the constitution. I am all for state rights and less government control, but you can't deny the fact that power over immigration and citizenship wasn't given to states.

Yes you found someone who was illegal, guess what they are everywhere. Not all of them are criminals.

My last question is if you were given the power how would your state make sure they didn't come back in? You know what the problem is? We can deport people and they come back in within a day. You can't control the problem until you can enforce our borders. Just deporting people doesn't solve the problem. If you read the AZ law all they do is send the people to ICE they don't actually deport people. So basing your question on a law that doesn’t allow AZ to deport people is kind of weird.

reply to post by rcwj1975


It would seem your more than great example is black and white -- he should be charged and tried, then placed in prison and then deported upon the completion of his time. All his possessions should be confiscated and sold, the proceeds going to his victim(s).

But states cannot deport directly, no matter how clear the case. If you want that power than you need to have the Constitution amended. You guys -- especially as LEOs who take an oath -- just can't be selective or convenience-based about when and what parts of the Constitution you'll abide and defend.

You should have the power to sue the feds on this stuff, per incident, when it tells you it is "not interested" in doing its mandated responsibility. Personally, I would also like you to be able to sue individuals or have charges brought upon people who refuse to do what they are chartered to do. Force them to be apolitical and to be responsible, or else face time.

On the Probable Cause side of your example, you had an obvious case. Me, I don't like laws that use "probable cause" as a justification to stop anyone. Those of us living as the general public know that in practice, "probable cause" is whatever the cop says it is. It is no more than a hunch and a guess. It is a lie and manipulation of the law created to unrestrain government enforcers. Who in the public can successfully argue after the fact that a cop did NOT have probable cause for a stop especially is something was found? No one. Plus, I've not met a cop yet who is not willing to make a little white lie or support his fellow officer a little outside the truth if it is a situation of him vs. any member of the public.

I respect your genuine belief that most officers act completely in bounds of the rules. But the public knows this is a huge fiction, even if you sincerely don't.

You should be able to stop them, check them and get them the hell outta here when they have broken the law. I live in NC and there are a LARGE # of illegal aliens (most Mexican) here. They drive around in unregistered, unisured cars without a license yet get away with it. As soon as ANYBODY is stopped anywhere and they don't have proper ID on them, they should be brought back the police station until it is determined who they are. Wether illegal or not! It would cost us tax payers a whole lot less if we bus them back over after taking their fingerprints (and any other identifying markers). Then we tell them, if they come back accross illegally they will put in jail for the rest of their lives, no questions asked. I know an illegal Mexican who has a management position at a local factory (because he stole a SS# like most due and is able to work "legally) he got pulled over for a DWI. Got put in jail and then was allowed to post a bond and get out. He has a lawyer and has not received any punishment for driving under the influence...this is scary because the government is stricter with its legal residence then with the illegal ones. He should never have gotten out! They should have out him on a bus and brought him right back to where he came from.
Cops being able to stop people that "look" loke they may be illegal is fine with me and the only reason that the hispanics are making a big deal is because they know they have broken the law and they want to stay here. GET THEM ALL OUT NOW!!!!!!

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


So you thanked the cop for his stop of you for no reason beyond his hunch? You prove my claim in another post that cops use "probable cause" to justify unlawful stops, to give guesses a legal defense. Your stop was BS based on nothing more than it was early in the morning when most ar sleeping, so the cop decides that is probable cause. That is BS and a lie, you were doing nothin unlawful and you damned sure should not have thanked him for keeping the streets safe. It is real easy to keep streets safe in a police state, you grateful for that?

because that is what it amouts to: when an officer is given the power to stop anyone for no reason at all you live in a police state where your liberties are ENTIRELY a fiction as they can be subverted on LITERALLY a whim. And here you are celebrating that simple because "you have no need to run."

So folks, many here simply just do not get it. This is another case of gross ignorance of the Constitution and its intent.