It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by hotbakedtater
The way you describe the situation it seems like the best thing to do is send this criminal back, why should we pay for his incarceration etc.?
Originally posted by rcwj1975
As many on ATS know I am a Law Enforcement Officer in Georgia and have been keeping an eye on the many threads posted about the new Arizona ILLEGAL Immigration Bill. Reading so many posts you see such a broad spectrum of beliefs, ideas, emotions, etc...but I haven't noticed many commenting on the following.
As a LEO I need Probable Cause or atleast Articutable Reasonable Suspicion to make a traffic stop or stop someone on the street. The Arizona Bill fear is that cops will profile and stop "hispanics" for just simply looking hispanic and forget about PC or ARS. Is that a valid fear, sure. There are people of ALL professions who simply suck at their jobs and tend to break rules to do things THEIR way, BUT what about those of us who do the job right and do come across ILLEGAL aliens?
Case in point. I mentioned on another thread that the other day I stopped a 2009 Ford Mustang doing 89 in a 55 and the driver happened to be "hispanic". Now the driver could not produce a valid drivers license, BUT handed me these awesome FAKE International Drivers Licenses they get for $50 here in Atlanta. Now after a few checks it was confirmed he was not licensed to drive the vehicle so he was arrested. Now, this driver is 24 years old working at Tyson Chicken driving a $30,000 car...ok fine, but then while searching his person I find a Social Security Card in his wallet and the card ended up being stolen and this scumbag was using and DESTROYING the credit of an elderly woman in the area, while he was thriving. Anyway, the car was impounded and I charged him, taking him to the jail. So I ask you folks...as a LEO KNOWING (100%) that this guy is not only a criminal...he IS an ILLEGAL alien from Mexico...should I and my State have the power to make sure he is deported back? Or should I do what we have been doing for years....call ICE and tell them what we have, only to be told they are not interested? Sounds like AZ was sick of hearing this answer for everyone they wanted to get out of their cities.
Someone, PLEASE give me a legitimate answer as to why local police and other agencies should NOT be allowed to deal with these guys/gals directly and get them out of here. What reasoning could you possibly come up with when the stop was legit, the arrest was legit, the lack of citizenship CONFIRMED, and he/she IS caught doing criminal deeds? You don't need to be a "fed" to check the status of citizenship....that is called an excuse by the Government to make the rest of the populace actually believe locals can't enforce this BS!
EDIT TO ADD: He had NO passport, NO visa, NO nothing....and yes he did admit he paid a coyote $200 to come across somewhere in TX....
[edit on 4/28/2010 by rcwj1975]
Originally posted by Wildbob77
Personally, I think that he should be given a trial.
If found guilty, he should have to pay his fine, do his time and then immediately be deported.
I think that he should have to wait a minimum of 5 years before he would be eligible to get a visa to come to this country legally.
Originally posted by DerbyCityLights
Trials are for Legal Citizens. If you get a trial you are being afforded rights which as an illegal you do not have.
Originally posted by JakiusFogg
reply to post by Annee
Plus at the time of the constitution most of the SW was part of mexico anyway
basically they see it as their land anyway! I don't see that changing any time soon
Originally posted by sremmos
rcwj1975, good to see you again.
I'm one of those who supports immigration enforcement, but at the same time, I don't support "papers please" without probable cause.
I don't think a police officer should be allowed to walk up to me on the street for no reason (assuming I'm NOT creating probable cause with my actions, if I am it's a different story) and demand ID at the threat of detainment.
I do believe that if someone is legitimately stopped through real probable cause and not just "I want to stop that guy because he's a pedestrian" (eg random ID checks to 'get lucky') then yes, of course you should be able to move them over to the appropriate federal authorities (border patrol, customs, ICE, whoever is appropriate).
My problem with Arizona is that I really do believe it's going to be abused heavily and that if police are allowed to stop you and papers please you for 'good faith' suspicion that you are committing the crime of being illegal, it basically gives them the ability to stop and detain anyone who's not carrying their birth certificate.
Sure, I'm white, it'd be harder to justify 'good faith' but all the officer has to say is that he goes off behavior, he can claim I was 'nervous' as I walked by him, etc etc etc and then just say that since he's not a racist, of course he thought I could be illegal too.
I think this is a dangerous law for that reason, I think it puts too much 'arrest power' in the police in that it lets you detain someone for not having a birth certificate and all you have to do is argue that it was in 'good faith'.
I know if I was in Arizona and got 'held' until I could provide a birth certificate, if it was the wrong time of day, it would take several hours at least.