The Arizona Bill on ILLEGALS, Answer Me This?

reply to post by Seitler

If they are given amnesty, that means they become legal and are then allowed to vote!

No. It doesn't. Being in the Country legally is NOT equal to being a citizen. Only citizens can vote. No matter what else an amnesty does to make them 'legal', it does NOT grant them citizenship.

Just because you are in the country legally doesn't mean you are a citizen. Even if a an 'amnesty' did lead to a 'guest worker program', it is unlikely to be in the form of giving them permanent residency via a 'green card'. 'Guest Worker' implies temporary NOT permanent.

And it can take 20 years to gain citizenship, even for a holder of a green card.

reply to post by rnaa


Like the guy earlier stated, IF they are granted amnesty for being an illegal immigrant, which is their only offense here, it means they now become a legal immigrant. They, as the LEOs would be concerned with, would then be considered a citizen with FULL citizsenship... meaning they'll be able to vote.

That is what people are failing to realize. It's not like these illegals want to just be able to work here and go home afterwards... they want to be full citizens of the USA without having to pay taxes and all of that hoo haa.

Now, I know, if they did become full citizens, they'd be put on the books... but they will then hold the power to provide the "swing vote" to whichever person/group helps their cause. Do you really want one group, with a collective mind, making laws for you?

If you're a democrat, you won't want a republican and vice versa.
Liberals don't want want a Conservative....

If you're a city born black person, you won't want a country born white person.

If you're and American you wouldn't want a foreigner being president... WHOOPS, THAT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED...

If you're an illegal, WHO CARES what you want, it shouldn't matter... you are ILLEGAL!

Not to mention they, in return, will just start hearding more people across the borders. People will say, "Now you're just assuming!" but the truth is, we must expect it. People are like animals... if you feed a dog, it will learn to keep coming to you when it's hungry. If we help illegals now, and say it's a one time deal, THEY WILL STILL WANT HELP LATER. It's a wonder why people, in general, don't see the trend.

You give, people take. You refuse, people steal.

[edit on 3-5-2010 by Seitler]

Illegal means illegal, so no matter how we decide to sugarcoat it, the problem is still there...

reply to post by Seitler

Like the guy earlier stated, IF they are granted amnesty for being an illegal immigrant, which is their only offense here, it means they now become a legal immigrant. They, as the LEOs would be concerned with, would then be considered a citizen with FULL citizsenship... meaning they'll be able to vote.

No. Sorry, you fail Civics class.

An amnesty could take the form of a "Guest Worker" like in some other countries. This is a temporary work permit. It does not grant immigration status either legal or illegal, and probably specifically bars the guest worker from applying for immigration while in the US under the program.

Even if it did take the form of granting Permanent Residency with Right to Work (known as a 'Green Card'), it still takes at least 6 years to become a citizen after you get the Green Card.

Perhaps this cartoon will help you see how long it takes you to get to be a citizen under various circumstances.





[edit on 3/5/2010 by rnaa]

[edit on 3/5/2010 by rnaa]

reply to post by rcwj1975


As a cop you have enough on your hands trying to deal with domestics, speeding complaints, and your community policing projects. Illegals will be here for a long time because we need the cheap labor force to stay competitive. Until welfare goes away and our 10 percent unemployed gets off their couches, we are going to have illegals.

The answer to illegal Mexicans is: Their economy has to grow and provide jobs at a standard of living equal to ours. This is why we do not have millions of Canadians coming across the border.

We can spend billions on border enforcement and high tech equipment while Mexico falls even farther below the U.S. or we can help their country.

I think that, maybe except for some other nationalities, Mexicans have every right to cross the border and remain in Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, California, etc., as long as they want, however they want, it's really their land as the U.S took it illegally from them. In other words, they're reclaiming what it's truly still theirs. Why do you think Los Angeles is called as such and not "The Angels", or Nevada isn't called "Snowed"? These are Mexican names. If anything the Americans who live there need to get the hell out and learn that they are living in occupied territory.

Peace!

reply to post by beyondsense


You are being Dumb friend.

Mexicans from and in Mexico have absolutely no desire of getting any land back from the USA.

Texas was won by a combo of Mexicans and colonial immigrants that wanted their own sovereign state. It later became part of the USA.

The rest were sold fair and square.

And the last thing on Earth illegal immigrants from Mexico want is to get all the way up to Nevada and find out that they are still in Mexico.

What you are saying is complete BS and I'd like you to stop your sorry attempt of being on the Mexican side of this debate.

Please switch over to the US side of the debate if your going to be defecating nonsense.

Originally posted by aboveandbeyond
Illegal means illegal, so no matter how we decide to sugarcoat it, the problem is still there...

I agree 100%!!

So please put some pants on little girl, because you are way to young to be flaunting your goods all over the Internet with a skimpy Avatar that looks like your wearing nothing but a blouse and some cowboy boots.

Like you said illegal is illegal.

Originally posted by beyondsense
I think that, maybe except for some other nationalities, Mexicans have every right to cross the border and remain in Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, California, etc., as long as they want, however they want, it's really their land as the U.S took it illegally from them. In other words, they're reclaiming what it's truly still theirs. Why do you think Los Angeles is called as such and not "The Angels", or Nevada isn't called "Snowed"? These are Mexican names. If anything the Americans who live there need to get the hell out and learn that they are living in occupied territory.

Peace!

Boy are you nuts! That isn't going to happen either, and remember the indians were here before you as well. But that's all history, now. Grow up

reply to post by Seitler

Amnesty only means they would now be able to adjust status. It doesn't give them citizenship it only would give them the ability to file for citizenship.

I am against general amnesty because it is a slap in the face to all those who worked to come here legally and often had to wait many years to do so. While these people just skipped across a border and now have the same rights??

Originally posted by Identified
reply to post by Seitler

 

Amnesty only means they would now be able to adjust status. It doesn't give them citizenship it only would give them the ability to file for citizenship.

I am against general amnesty because it is a slap in the face to all those who worked to come here legally and often had to wait many years to do so. While these people just skipped across a border and now have the same rights??

Too bad for you. Change your mentality to reflect what this nation is supposed to be. There were never supposed to be limits on how many immigrants can join our society.

It was open door policy. Come here, don't break our (Constitutional) laws. Follow the rules, and you're part of the club.

How does no one understand that America was a haven for free men, to come together and form a society based around law.

Not to quarantine ourselves as elitists. The money game did that.

My idea on illegals...

Give them 45 days to present themselves to a law enforcement agency and pay a $2,000 fine. At that point, issue them an identity card and require them to present themselves again in three months at which time they must show a proficiency in English and a knowledge of United States History. If they comply with this, then give them a guest worker visa that will allow themselves to work towards becoming a legal citizen within two years. If at any time they commit a felony, everything is revoked and they are on their way back to their homeland. Failure to re-present themselves within the three months, immeadiate deportation when they are taken into custody.

Those that choose not to pay the fine, immeadiate deportation. If at any time, we catch them in our country illegally again, well, here's the shovel, dig your hole, you are done.

Originally posted by vipertech0596
My idea on illegals...

Give them 45 days to present themselves to a law enforcement agency and pay a $2,000 fine. At that point, issue them an identity card and require them to present themselves again in three months at which time they must show a proficiency in English and a knowledge of United States History.

This hang up about the English language is so annoying.

For years the US & Mexico had a legal work program - - until some politician used it "Mexicans taking American jobs" to get elected.

Its been a mess ever since.

So again - - we had a WORKING program.

The question should be, what would have happened if he was a legal citizen of the United States of America, what would the penalty be? As he is an illegale immigrant and he did violate the laws, ruin someones credit, I would say, first confiscate all of his belongings and sell such, take all money he may have had on him, the proceeds going to the victim of his crime, then deport him, after getting as much information from him. Then send the Mexican government a bill for the damages he caused, demanding reparations for the trouble. If they don't pay, well then sue them for trillions of dollars of damages against the citizens of the United States of America perputrated by their citizens against our country. Cut the aid and assistence.

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
The question should be, what would have happened if he was a legal citizen of the United States of America, what would the penalty be? As he is an illegale immigrant and he did violate the laws, ruin someones credit, I would say, first confiscate all of his belongings and sell such, take all money he may have had on him, the proceeds going to the victim of his crime, then deport him, after getting as much information from him. Then send the Mexican government a bill for the damages he caused, demanding reparations for the trouble. If they don't pay, well then sue them for trillions of dollars of damages against the citizens of the United States of America perputrated by their citizens against our country. Cut the aid and assistence.

Then declare war?

Originally posted by mishigas

Call me insensitive but racial profiling is not the worst thing that can happen to a person. Not by a long shot. And the fact that it is an issue that can be so easily avoided by carrying the correct ID makes it even more of a non-issue.

Catch a plane, show your ID. Get a job, show your ID. Use your credit card, show your ID. I mean, what's the big deal?

The big deal is this: Cop always use every little excuse possible to harrass those they see as ' undesirables', and if they are allowed to arrest the People just because they do not carry the ' proper papers' then we will see massive amounts of arrests for that alone. Cops love easy arrests, ones that do not require any more than a transport and paperwork...and also, WHY should the USA be like NAZI Germany? Why should we carry ID at all times?

If there was a law that all people must carry ' proper ' ID at all times, cops would use that as an excuse to arrest people at the beach and other places where it is hard to carry papers...and they would arrest people who had Id but was not ' proper' in the mind of the cop...and you can bet your sweet life that white folks would not be bothered at all and the cops would use an ID law to arrest all people of color that they could.

Driving...YES!! You must carry the right papers. But in ALL other circumstances, it would be a nightmare of civil rights abuses, guaranteed, if we were required to present ID to our police masters anytime they desired and for any or NO reason. Cops use FEAR and intimidation, lies and bluffs, illegal and immoral means...to get their quota's filled and their bosses happy.

Putting human beings in cages because they could not prove their innocence goes against all that this nation stands for....if cops had their way, we would live in a POLICE STATE!!!! Remember that, always. The police would love NOTHING BETTER than to have absolute power over us....total authority to enter any residence or business at will and search without warrant, to beat and abuse anyone at will with no repercussions, and to be able to lie under oath with abandon and no chance of a perjury charge...hell, it is almost like that now!!

If you see the statistics about how many cops are prosecuted for perjury, you would be sickened..we all know that cops perjure themselves all the time...habitually, and yet the foul and crooked prosecutors, who are in fact nothing more than stooges for the cops...persecutors who ALWAYS takes the cops side, even when they know damned well that it is a dirty case...they cover up for them and refuse to prosecute them, desite all evidence...the whole system is rotten and one sided on the cops side.

Some day I pray that cops will be too fearful of their lives to step over the line...I would rather live in a world where I have to protect myself than to suffer all the abuses of the police...they are worse than any gang.

reply to post by rcwj1975


The time in our history has come where it is ever present that the Federal Government has proven to the people that the people's best interest is not the main objective. In the past 9 years we have seen a rapid degradation in the value of our currency and our standard of living, and a rise in the willingness of our ever expanding government to demonize the people of this country.

We shouldn't let the "Fed" tell the states or the people what to do. The states should be telling the "Fed" what they should be doing about this issue just like Arizona did.

I don't think it should end there. In order to accurately fix the immigration problem we need to end the phony war on drugs because PROHIBITION DOESN'T WORK!

Originally posted by belidged
reply to post by rcwj1975

 

The time in our history has come where it is ever present that the Federal Government has proven to the people that the people's best interest is not the main objective. In the past 9 years we have seen a rapid degradation in the value of our currency and our standard of living, and a rise in the willingness of our ever expanding government to demonize the people of this country.

We shouldn't let the "Fed" tell the states or the people what to do. The states should be telling the "Fed" what they should be doing about this issue just like Arizona did.

I don't think it should end there. In order to accurately fix the immigration problem we need to end the phony war on drugs because PROHIBITION DOESN'T WORK!

AMEN!! It is all part and parcel of the same strategy; Use ridiculous and harmful laws to create a vast prison/industrial complex so certain entities profit greatly while others suffer terribly.

Prohibition DOES works: It works all too well, but NOT for its' intended, or rather supposed, purpose...it failes totally and miserable as far as its announced goals...but it does great for enriching the few and enslaving the masses. the American people are far too trusting, and complacent, to realize just how awful things really are. Until it hits them personally in some way it is just too hard to believe..to believe that the people at the very top are corrupt, murdering traitors.

Just think: If prohibition were lifted, the police would have to spend vast amounts of time now wasted actually patrolling their areas and reducing REAL crime: Armed robberies, rapes, assaults, etc.. things that every intelligent person agrees is wrong and anti-social.

Now they spend more time arresting petty pot smokers than in all other pursuits COMBINED !! Over 800,000 arrests for pot, 85% of which were for possession only..billions of dollars wasted, taxpayer dollars, spent on COPS and overtime for court...probation...judges, prosecutors, etc. etc. etc....vast monies being thrown down a rat hole so smug, crooked politicians can get on Fox and preen for the cameras while lying thru their teeth and insulting us all with their packaged crap.

People here have lost faith in the process...but the worst part is that instead of getting outraged and doing something about it, they gave up, threw their hands up, and went back to the game and beer, figuring that surely someone will fix it before it gets too bad...yeah, right. Fat chance.

When you consider that 9-11 was an OBVIOUS inside job, not even disputable anymore, and that the People are so brain dead about what matters..and ruined by the controlled media...i believe that it is too late...it is unrepairable. The revolution has been cancelled. Damn it...I really had hoped when I was young that my kids would someday be free..to not have to live in fear...to live in a natiion that valued life and truth...where politicians really represented the local folks back home, and not the corporations..but when you look around today, it is appalling, sickening, and distressing.

No wonder people swallow handfuls of big pharma poison to cope...and yet tolerate the police slamming their kida around and putting them in cages because they dare to use one of God's creations..a plant, for their edification..harming no one.

The bosses cannot tell the truth...to do so would undermine all they have done and will do..and the people will not seek the truth, or act on it when found. god help us all....the end of America is at hand.

reply to post by richierich


Posts like yours make me howl with laughter. I can count on one hand the number of times I have been "harassed" by a cop. ONE, and that was only because he thought I was trying to steal a car (my friend had locked her keys in it and we were trying to open it)

99 times out of a 100, when a cop "harasses" you...its because you are doing something to arouse suspicion.

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by richierich

 

Posts like yours make me howl with laughter. I can count on one hand the number of times I have been "harassed" by a cop. ONE, and that was only because he thought I was trying to steal a car (my friend had locked her keys in it and we were trying to open it)

99 times out of a 100, when a cop "harasses" you...its because you are doing something to arouse suspicion.

Please tell us all what statistics you used to determine that ' 99 times out of 100' figure. Did you just invent it out of thin air, or can you link us to some authoritative source? I already know the answer ; you are making a personal assumption based ONLY upon your own very limited personal experience, and not on anything else. you make a statement as if it is a fact, with absolutekly no basis for doing so.

I can guarantee that you do not live in a ' high crime' area...you are not a person of color...you are young, with little life experience...and you are the sort of person that for some reason believes that if THEY personally do not experience something, then no one else has either....and that is the very height of warped logic and faulty reasoning. So WHy pray tell should anyone take your easily disprovable assumptions seriously?

Ask the multi-thosands of victims of police misconduct every year about THEIR experiences....ask the attorneys that make a living on nothing BUT police misconduct....ask the taxpayers that are shelling out millions of dollars to settle brutality and corrupt cop lawsuits...I can link you to case after case after nauseating case proving my point....but all you bring us is your opinions...study the issue a while and come back when you have some ammo in that empty pistol.