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The Arizona Bill on ILLEGALS, Answer Me This?

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posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by Everwatcher33
 


Actually an A-number means nothing but the name and info in the file. You can't get the file unless you are authorized to get it. An A-number also still requires a SS number or a Tax ID and those aren't listed in the file as they are for another govt agency.

So I don't see why they are so secret. You have to flash that number everytime you get a job, leave the country, enter the country, get a visa, get a new passport for your country, or in the case of Arizona if you are pulled over for speeding. :-)




posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by rcwj1975
 


After I think it's august of 1985 they started having dates on them. But there have been over two version of them since 1990. You may only see two but there have been at least 4 or 5. The current version now is pretty good and the security features are nice. But then as soon as they roll them out they are faking them. Some are pretty good fakes too.

And you are right only if they have been arrested. The older people have rap sheets too.
But even some of the newer people are not in the system because the system sucks to be honest lol. It's a crap shoot, you can't always count on the systems you use to determine someone's status.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by AllIsOne
 


Of course the illegals are in a way sanctioned by TPTB. Look at all the talk of who is going to clean my pool, wash my dog, pick my corn, etc... if we get rid of illegals.

Then they start whining about the economy failing. And the children legally born citizen of the US who would be without parents. And well we can't send the kids back as they are US Citizens.

So there are reasons for just allowing all this to slide. The reason is that the govt. Doesn't want to have to deal with the ramifications of fixing this mess. They would rather turn a blind eye and talk about amnesty.

It is all a joke to them.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by mysticalzoe
 


IF the child was born here no matter what the parents status at the time she is a natural born citizen of the US and is thus entitled to all her rights including free schooling if she applies.

Now what the US should do is what the UK has in recent years done. Make a child born in the US only legal if one parent is legally here.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by AllIsOne
 


Again, you guys are not examining the origins of the problem. I wonder why


As long as you're only dealing with the "symptoms" there won't be a solution to the problem. But I guess people want it to be really complicated so we can feed the system and waste billions.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by Identified
 


Thanks for addressing my issue.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by mysticalzoe
 


Not sure what Germany has to do with this but if you were a Spouse of a US Military personal then you would have indeed gotten Military Spouse Preference which provides priority in the employment selection at AAFES, MWR, and within any unit employee civilians not of contract status.

Perhaps the Germans were contract workers or had knowledge or education you did not have. Perhaps they simply spoke German and English and that qualified them above you for that particular job.

BTW I also lived in Germany for several years, worked on a US Military instillation and qualified as a BRAT to the preference. I didn't notice that the US wasn't taking care of their own and were allowing Germans all the good jobs.

LEts not run this discussion off into a ditch please.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by Identified
 


Thanks for addressing my issue.


You are very welcome. I wish more Americans would stand up and ask for Immigration reform. It isn't as if we haven't tried it this way for long enough to know it isn't working.

But I still don't want to be stopped and asked for proof. There has to be a better way and I think that starts with closing the borders and overhauling the system.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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It annoys me that this conversation is started with an anecdote of a Scum Bag who is guilty. For every one of him -- how many guys get embarrassed in front of their family, or are reminded; "they aren't fully American?"

If you had stopped some well healed man with all his papers, who happened to be working on Wall Street -- and threw a random assortment in Jail -- you'd probably save about a thousand little-old-ladies their retirement.

The problem is, agencies like ICE are not designed to SOLVE the problem. The government is helping business by pretending to be concerned about the problem and at the same time the businesses get the cheap labor. Illegal immigration is BAD for working people -- but ICE is only going to bust some Union shop.

Try an experiment sometime; Call up ICE and tell them that you found some illegal Aliens working at a Union run shop, and they will send about ten cars and a helicopter. They aren't interested in getting rid of the Cheap Labor -- nor is the RIAA and Movie industry interested in censoring the Internet to protect your children.

All the problems in this world that seem difficult and complicated, are making lots of money for someone who made SURE that it was difficult and complicated. Throw a dozen corporate executives in prison for hiring illegals -- and you don't have to treat everyone who "looks like a perp" badly.

Do you know WHY you never get witnesses in the city? Because the Black folk know damn well how they get treated as "suspects" all the time. Arizona is doing the wrong thing, and if this nonsense doesn't stop, next year they will have WORSE problems. It never fails; NAFTA and our trade policies and Bank deregulation started with promises of HUGE profits, and then we've got job loss and bank failures and looks of shock and surprise.

Immigration issues are easy to solve; just make sure nobody can work for less than $15 an hour -- period. That's what Minimum wage would be right now if it kept up with inflation. You won't become a millionaire -- but you MIGHT be able to raise a family on that. Don't say you 'can't afford it' -- that's ignoring the MARKET that is created by a bunch of people with more money in their pockets.

But I doubt anyone already convinced that "people are spoiled" and a swift kick to the back will solve all problems -- or that immigrants are inherently BAD people -- that's what was likely said about YOUR family when they first arrived in the USA.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 03:29 PM
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16 arrests and out free to do this!!!!! I think the police should be able to do everything they can to get rid of people like this!





posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by rcwj1975
 


My guess is the murders in Mississippi (see miss. burning)
The guy who got arrested breaking into his own home in CT
Countless cases where police just follow people around just because they are a different color in the neighborhood (happened to a white friend when visiting me - hey, it goes both ways!)
What I'm saying is that I'm finding this out rather quickly:
You can not just dismiss the issue just because you feel you are a responsible person in this day and age especially since there seems to be an agenda with the underlying tones of racism being utilized as a tool to bring war, martial law and NWO to the US. The old saying goes - fail to learn history, history will repeat.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by rcwj1975
 


Thank you for starting this thread and sharing your perspective--I believe it may help others feel a little more comfortable, or at least more understanding, of what it is Arizona's trying to accomplish here.

I saw a comment where someone said in your example of the Hispanic guy in the 2009 Mustang that they should be given a trial, and if found guilty, deported immediately.

Therein lies a large part of the problem, in my opinion: finding out whether or not someone is a legal resident is essential from the get-go, otherwise it turns into a bunch of red tape that costs the taxpayers even more money and often ends in failure.

It surprises me how few people seem to understand that constitutional rights only apply to legal residents. If you can determine right away that a person is here illegally, you can bypass all the red tape and deport them immediately (well, almost). People here illegally are not guaranteed a trial, nor should they be.

I work with several people from Mexico, and I'm hearing more and more that Latinos are getting annoyed with the problem of illegals. Mexicans that have emigrated here legally, worked hard at their jobs, paid their bills and supported their families are starting to be affected, and they're no happier about this than the average American.

I give a lot of credit to the AZ legislature and Governor, because they knew ahead of time this was not going to be easy. They knew there would be lawsuits, protests, no cooperation from the Fed, etc; yet they did the courageous thing--the will of the people. If one believes in a God who is just--and I personally do--then I would expect the state of Arizona to be rewarded for doing something that very few of our leaders have the cajones to do.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by Identified
reply to post by Everwatcher33
 


Actually an A-number means nothing but the name and info in the file. You can't get the file unless you are authorized to get it. An A-number also still requires a SS number or a Tax ID and those aren't listed in the file as they are for another govt agency.

So I don't see why they are so secret. You have to flash that number everytime you get a job, leave the country, enter the country, get a visa, get a new passport for your country, or in the case of Arizona if you are pulled over for speeding. :-)


The name and the info in the file means a lot actually. It's not just a number, that number is their identity to immigration. It can be stolen. The name and info in the file? Really the info in the file is anything from b-certs, tax information, marriage information, address, SS. It's more than you think.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 04:09 PM
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I haven't read the whole thread so this may have been posted before,

If so I am sorry, if not enjoy, I thought it was great.




posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by Identified
 


I am curious though you are bitter to immigration. How long ago did you go through the system? Are you mad because it took forever? Did you go through after it became USCIS or when it was INS?

Though it doesn't seem like it in the last 3-4 years the system has gotten a lot better and USCIS has started to stream line their application system. FBI response is faster for fingerprinting. Expected application times are down. Also just because someone has a masters degree and is from the UK wouldn't make it an easy case.
Plenty of people from different countries bring various problems to the US.

If it was back in the time of INS I can understand why you are frustrated.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by g146541

Originally posted by grey580


I never said it would be easy to accomplish.


There is the thing. i have enough hardships on my own.
I have done my part for my country and raised 6 law abiding tax paxing kids.
Why would i ever voluntarily support or even think to help more?
If they won't stay and fight for their own rights in their own country, why would they here? I see no good in taking on their problems.


Good for you. You should be proud of your accomplishements.

However you're having a knee jerk reaction. not every immigrant comming into this country is looking for a handout. Most come here and work hard.

I don't know what to tell you there about them not staying. However the USA is the land of opportunity. The American Dream and all that. A place you can go and make a name for yourself.

Is the dream dead?



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by Identified
 


looks like the mechanism is already there.

You should be complaining to your state government about denying aid to illegals.

My plan is looking good.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by Everwatcher33
 


Of Course there are tons of stuff in the file. They have medical records, police certificates, statements from employers, church officials, friends and family.

But I never said that using the A-number would allow people to see all that is in the file. All the A-number should be used for is access to see status, picture ID and name and birth. This would help identify aliens for employers, judges, schools and hospitals. And this info could only be accessed by personnel who are authorized to do so.

There would be absoluteluy nothing risky about the A-number that isn't already rsiky about it. Like I said you are required to flash it to all sorts of people who should never had access to more than what is written on the card. But it would help weed out false cards and stolen cards.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by grey580
 


The American Dream is nearly dead. Immigration is just a small part of this. Most of the problem comes from taxing the rich because "They have more."

What incentive is there for someone to work hard anymore?
It is sad really. But I digress...



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by Everwatcher33
 


I am all for immigration. This country only improves from immigration. But I do think our immigration system is horrible. It is bureaucracy at its worse.

My husband entered the US on a fiancé visa. This was the easiest visa for him to get because it only took about 3 months to secure it versus a marriage visa which at the time took nearly a year, or a work visa which would have taken at the time (even tho my husband has a "desirable" degree) more than 2 years.

So all in all it took 3 months in England to get his visa, between fees, paperwork, contacting people who could vouch for him, me showing I could support him, him taking a medical etc....

Then once in the US he had to file for work authorization. Permission for Advanced Parole (ins term for permission to leave the country for work etc... before your actually greencard is given.

Nevermind that the INA says work Auth should be given at the POE. Oh that would be too much work for them even tho we entered purposely at a POE that was supposed to grant it on the spot for fiance visas.

Then after marriage (90 days) you file for adjustment, then after that you still have the yearly Work Auth and the Adv Parole.

It took my husband nearly 4 years for him just to get the greencard. NOt because his case was tough or anything to do with us. But because the INS is so incompetent. They lost his file twice. We had to involve the Attorney General, two senators from two different states and and INS bigwig to sort it out over and over again. I was even threatened with deportation because the dear immigration officer thought he could intimidate me out of the mistake that I was the immigrant standing in front of him.

Eventually my husband actually received his greencard (although on paper he always had one which would were supposed to be able to prove with some sloppy ink handwritten words in his UK passport and a year later he naturalized. All of this took 2 years more than it should have simply because the INS is incompetent.

It is sad when the immigrant knows more of the laws than the officers do. And they really don't like it when you point that out to them. :-)

So in the end by the final year the INS had become first the BCIS and then the USCIS. Which meant my DOJ contacts really didn't want to help anymore. But we found a great guy at the USCIS DC who helped my husband out of the system before I totally blew the whistle.

Anyway after that I joined a group of, laywers, lawmakers and citizens who work all the time in trying to change the system. We are often asked what we think of certain things which is nice. I can actually say I helped change some of the questions on the Naturalization Questionnaire. :-)

The only reason I brought up the master's degree s because my husband actually fell into one of the desirable work visa catagories and could have adjusted status under that. HOwever with the system the way it is it took longer to do that than to just stay on the path we were on.

In no way should amnesty put those infront of people like my husband. Nor should people who are not any problem be slowed down because of INS/USCIS being incompetant.

Yes we were for more than a year under the USCIS. They still were incompetant. The fingerprinting was still a joke. Sure you got the results back quickly but only if you had a name that wasn't common (my husband's name is very uncommon) and if you are previously in the file.

My husband is previously in the file because he has UK and US Security Clearance. So looking him up for Adjustment was a peice of cake. Assuming the one person who knew how to fingerprint was actually there the day you were asked to come in...... Which happened with us once and I threw a fit until the FBI came over and took his prints. :-)

How dare they actually make an appointment on their time and then not be there to do it?!!

So as you can see I have many reasons to be bitter about this process.

Remember these people aren't working for Citizens. They answer to noone because really what immigrant is going to kick up a fuss when something goes wrong. Especially when they are known to threaten you with deportation for doing so.

I feel sorry for those who do not have a strong advocate for them that is a citizen. My husband would probably still be waiting for his greencard if not for me pitching fits.



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