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The Arizona Bill on ILLEGALS, Answer Me This?

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posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by Everwatcher33
 


That is why I said that it depends on the idiots filing the paperwork. I know many undesirables get into the US legally every day.

And that there are waivers for all sorts. But by in large people with a felony are usually not allowed to enter.




posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by Everwatcher33
 


You are completely correct. US Citizens are NOT required to carry proof of ID or Citizenship and Naturalized Citizens are given those same rights.

And you are correct that immigrants are supposed to carry around proof of legal immigration HOWEVER the laws make it nearly impossible for anyone to ask for it. Also the law has been challenged because it says you must be able to show proof. It doesn't say proof has to be on your person. People have gotten around this law legally by simply sending a person home to fetch their visa or greencard.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by prionace glauca
 



Federal Government has authority because the states allow it too. If states deem issues that require attention, they can enact laws to take care of that situation. Now Arizona, Next the rest of the Nation.


That may have been how this country started...but that ended long ago.

If you still believe this...it just shows your lack of understanding modern government.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by Identified
reply to post by Everwatcher33
 


That is why I said that it depends on the idiots filing the paperwork. I know many undesirables get into the US legally every day.

And that there are waivers for all sorts. But by in large people with a felony are usually not allowed to enter.


You are right, unless they sneak back in most are rejected and sent back to their country. People can't seem to grasp that. The process takes time and it takes a lot of time.

That's why I am a fan of the entire system getting a make over it needs one, badly and soon.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by Everwatcher33
 



illegal
1. against law: contravening a specific law, especially a criminal law
2. against rules: not allowed by the rules of something such as a game
3. not permitted by computer: not permitted in a computer program

noun (plural il·le·gals)
illegal immigrant: somebody who has entered a country illegally

crime
1. illegal act: an action prohibited by law or a failure to act as required by law
2. illegal activity: activity that involves breaking the law


Being illegal or committing illegal acts IS a crime, it doesn't matter how many hairs you split.

And for splitting hairs and mucking up the immigration system there is nothing like the EOIR.

vdare.com...

This can be argued endlessly to no avail and the peas refuse to plant themselves, so I am out of here. Have a very blessed day.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by SheaWolf]



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by rcwj1975
 


Any judge. Even traffic judges have the right if under subspision to request an investigation on whether someone in their court is legally here.

What that means is placing a call down to the local FBI or ICE office. However, the ICE often is too "busy" to care.

That is the problem. We have the laws already but they arent' being enforced. States don't need to start stomping on my rights because they can't find a way to use the laws already in place.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by Identified
 


You are 100% correct as well, it's nice to see another person who knows how immigration works.

I don't know 100% but I know it better than most.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:47 PM
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BTW there are additional laws making this illegal.

There is the federal law of Transporting Aliens as well as Conspiracy to do so. Also Transit of Foreign Goods that have not been inspected by Customs.

So you can get illegals on all sorts if you actually see them crossing the boarder free of a POE (point of entry) and sans I-94 or other legal documents.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by Identified
 


I know that, but the same database the FBI ans ICE use to determine status, almost EVERY police dept/sheriffs office in the nation has access to the same database....sooooo why make it so difficult...and let us simply run the check (since we do anyway) and use it?



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by SheaWolf
reply to post by Everwatcher33
 



illegal
1. against law: contravening a specific law, especially a criminal law
2. against rules: not allowed by the rules of something such as a game
3. not permitted by computer: not permitted in a computer program

noun (plural il·le·gals)
illegal immigrant: somebody who has entered a country illegally

crime
1. illegal act: an action prohibited by law or a failure to act as required by law
2. illegal activity: activity that involves breaking the law


Being illegal or committing illegal acts IS a crime, it doesn't matter how many hairs you split.

And for splitting hairs and mucking up the immigration system there is nothing like the EOIR.

vdare.com...

This can be argued endlessly to no avail and the peas refuse to plant themselves, so I am out of here. Have a very blessed day.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by SheaWolf]


Just don't get it do you? Sigh I am tired of fighting the point with you and everyone else who can't grasp that concept. If it was a CRIME it would be handled in CRIMINAL court. You do know that there are things against the law but that aren't what we consider crimes? Sigh...



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by rcwj1975
reply to post by Identified
 


I know that, but the same database the FBI ans ICE use to determine status, almost EVERY police dept/sheriffs office in the nation has access to the same database....sooooo why make it so difficult...and let us simply run the check (since we do anyway) and use it?


Actually you don't use the same databases ICE does, FBI maybe, but ICE...no. They use your systems and put some information in NCIC but most of it is stored in immigration systems. You don't have access to most of those...at least the last time I checked.


[edit on 4/29/2010 by Everwatcher33]



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by Everwatcher33
 


Whether the ICE likes it or not tho they do have to deal with the USCIS everyday. Often they share the same offices in a town.

Frankly I prefer dealing with ICE before I ever speak to some braindead Immigration officer but there you have it.

BTW for others in this thread who don't know the stuff we do I will post this:

US Customs and Border Enforcement (CBE), US Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), and Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) now handle the duties formerly held by the INS. CBE handles the INS's border patrol duties, the USCIS handles the INS's naturalization, asylum, and permanent residence functions, and the ICE handles the INS's deportation, intelligence, and investigatory functions.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by rcwj1975
 



I do have one question though rcwj. What happens when you get someone who has been here legally for a long time and all they have are the old green cards? How do you know if it's fake, don't tell me you can look at the systems because most of the time even the systems immigration uses don't have the information on their status either without looking at an immigrants A-file?



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by Identified
reply to post by Everwatcher33
 


Whether the ICE likes it or not tho they do have to deal with the USCIS everyday. Often they share the same offices in a town.

Frankly I prefer dealing with ICE before I ever speak to some braindead Immigration officer but there you have it.

BTW for others in this thread who don't know the stuff we do I will post this:

US Customs and Border Enforcement (CBE), US Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), and Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) now handle the duties formerly held by the INS. CBE handles the INS's border patrol duties, the USCIS handles the INS's naturalization, asylum, and permanent residence functions, and the ICE handles the INS's deportation, intelligence, and investigatory functions.


Correct, and yes immigration officers have caused a lot of headaches to a lot of people. Then again if everyone would stop trying to hose down their turf maybe the system might work better lol.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:59 PM
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And just to pose a question to everyone saying it is indeed a criminal offense to be here illegally. Why would AZ have to pass a law to make it ILLEGAL (crimally) to be here in the US if it wasn't already illegal?



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by Everwatcher33
 


I work every week to try to overhaul the Immigration procedure in this country. It is crazy mad. I also have an added curse or benefit (depending on how you want to see it) in that my husband was a legal immigrant who naturalized a few years ago. And the problems we had dealing with the idiots who work for INS/BCIS/USCIS is what has led me to this path.

And my husband was an easy case as he has a Master's degree and comes from England. Just imagine what the USCIS calls a difficult case?



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 02:01 PM
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The new AZ law isn't perfect and some people will be stopped for the wrong reason, but ...

The Feds and I.C.E. have failed the US citizens. It is them who should be blamed. The US citizens of hispanic decent should be mad about their failure and not about a state trying to enforce the law.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by rcwj1975
 


I have no problem with a person who is already arrested on another charge being investigated as to their legality. However, they should not be allowed to deport the person without an immigration judge being involved and they should not be able to ask for immigration papers upon arrest.

That is just too close to it being the reason the person was targeted for arrest IMO.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by prionace glauca
 



Federal Government has authority because the states allow it too. If states deem issues that require attention, they can enact laws to take care of that situation. Now Arizona, Next the rest of the Nation.


That may have been how this country started...but that ended long ago.

If you still believe this...it just shows your lack of understanding modern government.


Not only do I believe it, it is written in the constitution. But as a liberal troller that you are, you seem to not want to believe anything true but rather live in the fantasy world you call home.



posted on Apr, 29 2010 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by Identified
reply to post by Everwatcher33
 


I work every week to try to overhaul the Immigration procedure in this country. It is crazy mad. I also have an added curse or benefit (depending on how you want to see it) in that my husband was a legal immigrant who naturalized a few years ago. And the problems we had dealing with the idiots who work for INS/BCIS/USCIS is what has led me to this path.

And my husband was an easy case as he has a Master's degree and comes from England. Just imagine what the USCIS calls a difficult case?



Lol do you live in texas? Kidding. Yeah some USCIS offices have a reputation for being horrible others for being fantastic at their work. For example if you want something done in NY, Texas, CALI, FL good luck to you...



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