Why is it okay to lie, but "Wrong" to speak against dishonesty?

There is an endless stream of "soothsayers" on ATS whose threads are allowed long-lived runs. A large percentage of these "fortune-telling" threads are consistently wrong, yet still claim they will tell you about your future--or even about who you are.
And it is apparent that there are some true believers (and some naive, too) that take these "prophets" at face value. Gladly accepting the outright lies handed to them.

In my thinking this is outright dishonesty. Intentionally misleading people doesn't seem right to me. The motto of ATS is "Deny Ignorance". Not "Try to pull the wool over everyone's eyes". Am I the only one that finds this morally questionable?

**Now there have been several threads that criticize this dishonest "hobby" of handing out bunk "readings". All but one of these (that I know of) have either been removed or put in BTS.

**Why are the ones trying to "call out" the dishonest the ones being silenced? The posts of the debunkers have not been filled with hate speech or obscenities.

Most have frankly admitted that there are some out there that probably possess some prescience. But common sense tells you oracles cannot be every other member on ATS.

I understand (and fully agree with) the need to allow every single person a right to express their opinion. But those sort of threads are not presented as opinion but as "knowledge".

*So my question is: Why is it okay to lie to the entire site? And why is it wrong to speak against this overly common ruse?




ETA: Mods I realize you may move this or remove it, but please read the OP first. TY

[edit on 27/4/2010 by Chamberf=6]

reply to post by Chamberf=6


I'd guess, Chamberf=6, that much of what you're speaking about is posted in Skunkworks. Itza free-for-all, which is why I suppose that forum was created. I don't wander there myself often, but on occasion.

Mostly subscribe to potentially interesting threads, but what I do not do is go in there and try to disrupt the flow of the thread. Yes, I'm mostly skeptical of much of the self-proclaimed prophets, but, like Nibiru, it's a guilty pleasure.

I don't believe in Nibiru, but I can't help tracking its progress.

reply to post by argentus


The posts I speak of are in a number of different forums: paranormal, grey area, dreams and predictions, 2012, philosophy, and yes skunk works among others.


[edit on 27/4/2010 by Chamberf=6]

I am not really bothered by it so much.

I enjoy the opportunity to debate them on it and find out examples of why they are wrong or BSing. (This is a double edged sword that can be used back at us too so have caution).

Also, when we can prove the story is fabricated beyond all reasonable doubts, many times we can get it labelled HOAX.

But really, we need to focus on the good threads and spend more time contributing in those.

I admit I am guilty as well. But we can always learn and improve and move forward.

If you formulate your debates in a very clever manner, you will always shine around here.

Chamber, I'm with you on this. I understand, and respect the right for everyone to voice their opinion. I completely understand why a thread is allowed to be created claiming something about "knowing everything".

My personal complaint is not that ATS allows these threads to be created -like Muzzleflash I really enjoy visiting, questioning, and awaiting answers to see if the "Enlightened One" does know everything - my complaint is that after continuous incorrect answers to "everything", these prophets aren't deleted, or moved to a separate board.

Maybe the 2010 transition can come with a new board titled "Prophets that have been proven wrong, but still believe they're right" - or something along those lines.

I suppose those of us who are skeptical just need to keep doing our job and try to keep the prophets providing evidence of their gifts.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Yeah I agree WS. And maybe in the "new" ATS they might let some of us who are calling out the frauds to speak our mind as well...

reply to post by Chamberf=6


The problem is many of these soothsayers actually believe they have powers, so they are not lying in any sense that we know. Sure, there are many charlatans who do it for money and fame, but most actually believe it themselves. There may be a few who might have such abilities, but I am thinking it scares them into keeping it to themselves.

As is noted at the top of every thread in the Gray Area:

The Gray Area is a discussion forum that provides a dedicated area for members to post their confessions, disclosures, and related extraordinary personal experiences. Like the highly speculative Skunk Works forum, The Gray Area will tolerate topics that may be unusually hypothetical or unproven for the purpose of vetting the stories of thread-starters by the ATS membership at large

I've seen the descriptor present at the top of every page, and I agree (always have) that everyone and anyone should be allowed to begin a thread of any nature that they so choose.

I suppose the question is this: would any of these prophets or enlightened masters be moved to the [hoax] board if enough evidence mounted that they didn't have the answers or information they claimed?

Not that I think everyone who starts a thread is capable of it, but, there are influential speakers, and extremely gullible readers on these boards. It is very possible for someone to fall in line behind a false-prophet who might lead them down some bad roads. There have been cult-leaders who have made an attempt to spread their message on ATS before.

I don't know, I guess I just worry that if these threads stay active after it has been brought to light that they are lying or deceiving, then there's still the possibility people might believe them.

Just my two cents on this whole topic.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by greeneyedleo


Yes I understand that. But I wasn't talking just about the grey area forum. I am talking all over. :bnghd: