U.S. National ID card.....it's about time

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posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 01:54 PM
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As everyone knows, the United States has been facing a serious illegal immigration problem, especially in states such as Arizona, which has a long, virtually unprotected border with Mexico.
If nothing is done now, I am afraid that the United States will begin to lose its identity in the near future, on top of everything else relevant to this problem and its adverse consequences.

I believe that enforcing the border is essential. Many nations of the world have stringent border policies and enforcement.
Tall walls such as the ones separating Israeli settlements and the Palestinian areas in Israel may not be realistic and may not be the answer, but something must be done to defend our borders besides just increasing the number of border patrols.

What about those estimated 12 million illegals who are here already?
Indeed this is a big problem. It may be logistically impossible to deport them en masse.
What should be done to these people?
Here is my suggestion:
Those who can prove that they have been here for 20 years or more and can prove it with documentation, should be made eligible for citizenship (only upon request) or for Permanent Residency status provided that they pass a background check, pay back taxes, pay a special penalty and get a certificate of completion from an E.S.L. (English as a foreign language school).

Those who can prove that they have been here for 5 years or more (but less than 20 years) with documentation, should not be made eligible for U.S. citizenship but should be made eligible only for a Permanent Residency status, provided that they also pass a background check, pay back taxes, pay a special penalty and get a certification from an E.S.L. school.

For those who have been here less than 5 years, the only recourse will be to voluntarily return to their point of origin.
Will they leave?
They will eventually leave if they cannot find jobs here.

In order to do this, the U.S. must enforce the law that penalizes the hiring of illegals, i.e., those who do not possess the U.S. citizenship or Permanent Residency status or Work Visas.
Here is my suggestion:

The U.S. must also begin to consider giving each U.S. citizen a tamper-proof U.S. National Identity card. Many nations of the world already require their citizens to carry national ID cards with them at all times.
This may sound very Orwellian, but I believe that it has to be done.
We all carry Driver's License at all times. Driver's licenses, however, are issued by each State, and not by the Federal government. We need a Federally issued U.S. National ID card, just like a U.S. passport.
Another ID card will not be such a burden to carry at all times.
In the future, even some type of Biometric ID system may come into the picture, like it or not.
We are already living in a world without much privacy, anyway.
This may not prevent all crimes or stop terrorism, but it will be a first step to curtail them.

Norio Hayakawa
www.myspace.com...




posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by Norio Hayakawa

The U.S. must also begin to consider giving each U.S. citizen a tamper-proof U.S. National Identity card. Many nations of the world already require their citizens to carry national ID cards with them at all times.
This may sound very Orwellian, but I believe that it has to be done.
We all carry Driver's License at all times. Driver's licenses, however, are issued by each State, and not by the Federal government. We need a Federally issued U.S. National ID card, just like a U.S. passport.
Another ID card will not be such a burden to carry at all times.
In the future, even some type of Biometric ID system may come into the picture, like it or not.
We are already living in a world without much privacy, anyway.
This may not prevent all crimes or stop terrorism, but it will be a first step to curtail them.

Norio Hayakawa
www.myspace.com...


I thought that is what Social Security cards were for.....of course I definitely would not object to having something much harder to duplicate that a paper card with my name and number on it. If only to help avoid identity theft.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:10 PM
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Problem / reaction / solution.

This has all been done on purpose to bring in the RFID chip




posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by Trublue
 


I agree...and even the majority here on ATS bought it hook, line, and sinker.

I have said from the beginning of this Arizona immigration bill...the only way to enforce this is by a National ID...and they will use this to push that agenda. I made this argument because I know how many people here on ATS are against a national ID...and I wasn't surprised at all when they abandoned that concern to have a witch hunt for illegal immigrants.


So ATS members that support the Arizona law...don't cry or complain when we get a national ID...you helped usher it in.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:14 PM
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Wow, there it is. This is EXACTLY the idea you are supposed to have. "Hey, a national ID Card sounds like a great idea!" Well I guess every corporation needs some way to keep track of its assets.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by Trublue


Problem / reaction / solution.

This has all been done on purpose to bring in the RFID chip



Maybe so. Although I would agree to an upgraded version of the Social Security card, I would not agree to being 'chipped'. I highly doubt the US Government could achieve successful 'chipping' of all American citizens. They don't do a good job at any of their other nationalized programs, why would this one be any different. I just think they are to inept to pull it off.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by Norio Hayakawa
 


Not sure if you were born in the United States, not really that important, but nonetheless, I suggest you freshen up on the history of this country.

Your contention and ideologies go against the very fabric and grain that this country was built on.

DENY IGNORANCE!



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:19 PM
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Every time this issue comes up I recall that it really wasn't too long ago that anyone who proposed giving the Fed this much power would be hung from the nearest tree.

The fact that Washington knows anything about us at all is so far beyond what this nation was founded on it borders on obscene.

There is no need for a national ID card, now or ever.

Immigration is an easy problem to solve. EASY, yet the practical ideas are ignored while crazy people discuss idiotic ideas.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:21 PM
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If you want government to control your every move and record your every transaction, go ahead and sign up for a National ID card. It is pretty obvious who is a natural born American citizen and who isn't when speaking with people. If you are raised in America, attend American schools...it will be blatantly obvious. Questionable people can be screened.

Do you think an ID card will eliminate illegal immigrants? Do you want to pay for hundreds of new prisons to house these illegal immigrants while awaiting their trial? The only way to deter immigration is through fences, gun towers, and security check points everywhere, and that is still not fool proof. There is no way to police all borders.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by Norio Hayakawa
The U.S. must also begin to consider giving each U.S. citizen a tamper-proof U.S. National Identity card.


There is NO such thing as tamper proof. Period. We spend billions of dollars trying to prevent fraud, only to battle more-advanced fraud. Everything can be faked. Everything can be stolen. Nothing is above this.



We all carry Driver's License at all times. Driver's licenses, however, are issued by each State, and not by the Federal government. We need a Federally issued U.S. National ID card, just like a U.S. passport.


Than why can't we just use a passport?

Why create yet another form of ID that will cost more money and create more government jobs? We have passports. We have Driver's licenses. We have birth certificates. We have Green cards. We have permanent resident cards. We have temporary and student visas.

I'm sure at least one of the above can prove whether or not you are legally permitted to be residing in the US.


In the future, even some type of Biometric ID system may come into the picture, like it or not.


The is the US. It's not "like it or not". At least it's not supposed to be. It's By the People, For the People, and this particular "people" says no way.

The government will never force me to inject anything into my body and the fight to make it mandatory will result in an all out revolt. Period. Look at the hoopla vaccines get and they are not even mandatory.


We are already living in a world without much privacy, anyway.
This may not prevent all crimes or stop terrorism, but it will be a first step to curtail them.


How many first steps have to miss the mark before we realize that we already fell down the stairs? We spend billions already on security -- airlines, police, military, etc. -- all to keep us safe. But yet, it's never enough. It's like the personal money pit of the government.

By the way, you just gave away your privacy like it was nothing. If more people valued their lives and their rights, and their right to privacy, these issues would not even have to be discussed.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:24 PM
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Or we could just stop depending on the federal government and let the states decide how to deal with the issue (hmm sounds familiar). AZ has made a stand. That is AZ's right. If CA lets say, wants to keep illegals, then that is there right. I will never support another crappy ID card. I have enough of them already. On a nationwide basis doesn't make it harder to duplicate. It just means there are more of them and easier to duplicate.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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Cool Ranch Microchips, with 110% sodium, no trans fat and 6 grams of heart healthy
whole grains


I am going to the model with ONSTAR myself



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:27 PM
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Now there's an Idea that scars the hell out of me...
oh not because I have anything to hide... Hell I'm a card carrying member of the Jicarilla Apache Nation (Red Skin for you Yankees)

its just that I can picture myself leaving the house and forgetting my "National ID" getting picked up by the local Jack-boots then find myself sitting in some cell wondering what comes first? my phone call or a bus ride out of the country???



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by Wolftotem


Maybe so. Although I would agree to an upgraded version of the Social Security card, I would not agree to being 'chipped'. I highly doubt the US Government could achieve successful 'chipping' of all American citizens. They don't do a good job at any of their other nationalized programs, why would this one be any different. I just think they are to inept to pull it off.


Really you doubt it - did you know that China and India already have them and that if countries like that can do it so can the US.




A Coordinated International ID Agenda? What stands out from this survey, unreliable as it may be, is that advanced electronic ID card systems are coming to some of the poorest nations in the world, some in chaos, civil war, starvation, the smallest and the largest. They are coming to nations with vastly divergent cultures, to nations that are almost completely pre-industrialised and underdeveloped, and coming first to almost all Islamic nations. The few nations that will not have advanced electronic population registration will be in a tiny minority. This is all to happen by the end of 2012. ...

Read the whole highly disturbing article.

www.globalresearch.ca...



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:30 PM
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You don't need a National ID or RFID chip to prove that we are citizens of The USA. What we have has been effective for 50 years. What we need is to protect our border like, France, Holland, Belgium, Sweden, Germany, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Hungry, Switzerland, Netherlands, Monaco, Poland, Romania, India, Iran, Iraq..........



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Trublue
 


I agree...and even the majority here on ATS bought it hook, line, and sinker.

I have said from the beginning of this Arizona immigration bill...the only way to enforce this is by a National ID...


And as we have stated a number of times but you choose to ignore, there are numerous options in dealing with illegal immigration that have nothing to do with a national ID card.

Simply because you want to use a scare-tactic -- National ID Cards -- to gather support for your opinion that the Arizona immigration law is "wrong", doesn't make your argument correct.

Stop dragging down citizens like they are equal to illegal immigrants. They are not equal. You know why? Because by being on US soil they have committed a federal offense. They are criminals by the truest definition. Criminals and innocent citizens are not, and should not, be treated equally.

-- Should everyone be drug-tested because there are drug dealers?
-- Should everyone have to take a breathalizer before they get in their car because there are drunk-drivers?
-- Should everyone have to be patted down when leaving a store because there are shoplifters?

No.
So than why would *everyone* need an ID card simply because there are illegals here?



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


You are STILL putting the cart before the horse.

You realistically can not NOT solve a problem by assuming a bad thing will happen if you do.

I have yet to see a positive response by you as to what we SHOULD do to solve this problem. All I'm hearing is what we shouldn't do based on what MIGHT happen.

You use the possibility of R.F.I.D. chips and such to hide the fact that all you are doing is trolling.

Prove me wrong.



Peace



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:37 PM
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1. The national ID card will not prevent illegals from coming here.

2. The country is only in a situation where people are angry about immigrants coming here because the US has devolved into a socialist welfare state.

3. The economy can't support the immigrants because government and the Fed have destroyed it through massive mismanagement, over-regulation, the propping up of failed industries, multiple foreign wars, and insane taxation.

Given these facts, the proper solution to the immigration problem is not a national police state, but instead, eliminating government.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by Trublue


Really you doubt it - did you know that China and India already have them and that if countries like that can do it so can the US.




A Coordinated International ID Agenda? What stands out from this survey, unreliable as it may be, is that advanced electronic ID card systems are coming to some of the poorest nations in the world, some in chaos, civil war, starvation, the smallest and the largest. They are coming to nations with vastly divergent cultures, to nations that are almost completely pre-industrialised and underdeveloped, and coming first to almost all Islamic nations. The few nations that will not have advanced electronic population registration will be in a tiny minority. This is all to happen by the end of 2012. ...

Read the whole highly disturbing article.

www.globalresearch.ca...


While this was a decent read there are too many "unknowns" and "inaccuracies" admitted in the article itself. The national cards are not a new idea either - this rumor has been around for several decades. But again, cards are not physically "chipping" people - though I would not be surprised to find some who are promoting national chipping programs. I just don't think the US will be able to pull it off, just mho.


[edit on 27-4-2010 by Wolftotem]



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by Norio Hayakawa
 


No offense to you personally but to hell with your plan. I will never support turning this country into a Naziesq "YOUR PAPERS!!!" state. ID is another police state BS provision designed to make it easier for the government to know the comings and goings of its citizens.

When this country was founded there were no horse drawn carriage licenses to make sure people driving a horse drawn carriage knew how to do so safely. There were no license plates for the carriages themselves either. It was under the guise of safety that these police state tools came online with the introduction of the motorized car. They still were not needed then but the opportunity to track the comings and goings of all the citizens was too enticing for those working for and furthering the agenda of the police state.

Call it racist but it is pretty easy to stop illegal immigrants from getting jobs, anyone of latino descent with a poor ability to speak english would come under heavy scrutiny by employers with checks being made to the Social Security Administration and the IRS to make sure this person is who he says he is.

There is no such thing as a tamper proof ID, a federal ID is not going to solve the problem of illegal immigrants working in the U.S.






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