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Heaven And Hell...Proof That Neither Exists???

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posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 01:27 PM
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First off, Heaven cannot exist without Hell, nor Hell without Heaven. In our existence, there are infinite levels of awareness, multi-verses, dimensions, perceptions, understanding. There is a polar opposite to everything in existence, somewhere. Black must have a white, positive a negative counterpart, yes and a no, and so on. Therefore if there is one, there is the other. Also- If one does not exist, neither does the other.

What is Heaven?

Originally it meant the skies, the above world-


The term "heaven" may refer to the physical heavens, the sky or the seemingly endless expanse of the universe beyond, the traditional literal meaning of the term in English.
(ie…from whence the “Sky Gods” came…)

Later it became this to some-


Some religions conceptualize Heaven as pertaining to some type of peaceful life after death related to the immortality of the soul. Heaven is generally construed as a place of happiness, sometimes eternal happiness. A psychological reading of sacred religious texts across cultures and throughout history would describe it as a term signifying a state of "full aliveness" or wholeness.



Consider this if you make it to Heaven. One, some, or all of your friends or relatives will go to Hell. Somebody, somewhere that you love will have made enough mistakes, and not asked for forgiveness, and banished to Hell…Therefore you cannot possibly be in a state of pure bliss, with complete peace and happiness to consider yourself to be in Heaven. You will long for them to be in Heaven with you, and the thought of their suffering for eternity would drive you insane. There is no Heaven.


What is Hell?


In many religious traditions, Hell is a place of suffering and punishment in the afterlife, often in the underworld. Religions with a linear divine history often depict Hell as endless (for example, see Hell in Christian beliefs). Religions with a cyclic history often depict Hell as an intermediary period between incarnations (for example, see Chinese Diyu).



In Christianity and Islam, Hell is traditionally depicted as fiery and painful, inflicting guilt and suffering. Some other traditions, however, portray Hell as cold and gloomy. Despite the common depictions of Hell as a fire, Dante's Inferno portrays the innermost (9th) circle of Hell as a frozen lake of blood and guilt. Hell is often portrayed as populated with demons, who torment the damned. Many are ruled by a death god, such as Nergal or the Christian or Islamic Devil.


Consider this also... That “one, some, or all of your friends or relatives” that most definitely made it to Hell. Somewhere, in their tortured mind, while burning in Hell, they will know in their heart the reverse – That someone they love made it to Heaven, even if it’s only one person. Therefore they will have a slight, slight glimmer of hope, faith, and happiness in knowing somebody made it to Heaven. Maybe their friend(s) in Heaven are praying for their soul to be saved from Hell…There is no Hell.

So, by at least Christian definition there is no Heaven or Hell. One cannot exist, so neither can exist. At least not in any type of Afterlife. Perhaps we exist in both right now, while still alive. Or, maybe we are given a choice. Ascend to the Heavens (Space) with the sun/sky gods, or descend below ground with the Devil, fallen angels, or just buried under ground? Could it be that literal?

There are many things that could happen, but there is no Heaven or Hell when you die.

Research what the Ancients said about the concept. Before and alongside the Bible and Koran….More of an abstract, fly away with the sky gods or sun gods, or be buried below with the evil deities…

If anything at all, they exist- but not in our definition of the terms!

***There is one loophole: If you did not love anyone, not one little bit. And then, you somehow make it to Heaven, or Hell. Then you would have no regrets. That scenario would be incredibly hard to pull off, but possible I guess. Certainly there are other loopholes/exceptions, but rare.***

source1
source2






[edit on 27-4-2010 by Signals]




posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by Signals
 
Hiya Signals. I'm with you on this one. Heaven and Hell are just ridiculous ideas (in my opinion). I've never found an argument that makes sense of either concept and like you say, we can't have one without the other.

Out of idle interest, there's an alleged essay about Hell being exothermic (radiates heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat). It's smartass and funny



College Essay: Just remember, on tests, B.S. does pay off.

The following is an actual question given on a University of Washington chemistry midterm. The answer was so "profound" that the professor shared it with colleagues, which is why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well.

Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)? Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law, (gas cools off when it expands and heats up when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing with time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving.

As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there are more than one of these religions, and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell.

With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially.

Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell; because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand as souls are added. This gives two possibilities:

1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.

2. Of course, if Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over. So which is it?

If we accept the postulate given to me by Ms. Teresa Banyan during my Freshman year--"...that it will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you."--and take into account the fact that I still have not succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then #2 cannot be true; and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and will not freeze.

THE STUDENT RECEIVED THE ONLY "A" GIVEN



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 01:56 PM
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Great post, Signals


I'm with you, I never really believed in a heaven or a hell. When I was a little boy (my parents always tell this story), a priest told me the concepts of heaven and hell, and I flat out told him "That's not how it works." Everyone had a good laugh, but I just like to think of it as I was fresh from reincarnation


I think hell is a frame of mind, and possibly a feedback loop after you die. If you think that you're destined for hell...well...that's where you go, straight down to the lower dimensions. It's all frame of mind to me.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by DocEmrick]



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:00 PM
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Consider this if you make it to Heaven. One, some, or all of your friends or relatives will go to Hell. Somebody, somewhere that you love will have made enough mistakes, and not asked for forgiveness, and banished to Hell…Therefore you cannot possibly be in a state of pure bliss, with complete peace and happiness to consider yourself to be in Heaven. You will long for them to be in Heaven with you, and the thought of their suffering for eternity would drive you insane. There is no Heaven.

YOU WONT HAVE ANY MEMORY OF THEM!

Consider this also... That “one, some, or all of your friends or relatives” that most definitely made it to Hell. Somewhere, in their tortured mind, while burning in Hell, they will know in their heart the reverse – That someone they love made it to Heaven, even if it’s only one person. Therefore they will have a slight, slight glimmer of hope, faith, and happiness in knowing somebody made it to Heaven. Maybe their friend(s) in Heaven are praying for their soul to be saved from Hell…There is no Hell.

THEY INTENTIONALLY HAVE MEMORY LIKE IN THE STORY OF LAZIRUS TO REMEMBER WHY THEY SUFFER - THEIR EVIL HEARTS ARENT CONCERNED WITH THOSE THEY LOVED WITHIN HEAVEN ONLY ABOUT THEMSELVES AND WHY IT HURTS NOT EVEN WHY THEY ARE THEIR AND WHY THEY DIDNT REPENT WHEN GIVEN THE CHANCE IN LIFE.

There are many things that could happen, but there is no Heaven or Hell when you die.

AND YOU KNOW THIS IS A BOLD FACE LIE!
VENUS


[edit on 4/27/10 by Ophiuchus 13]



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:05 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

If you accept your assumptions as fact, you could be right.

Here's another possibility - no one spends an eternity in hell.

How does that change the outcome?


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:07 PM
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Great thread Signals. When I was young the thought of dying and going to hell terrified me. Panic attacks, sleeplessness, all that fun stuff that goes along with religion. Thank goodness as I got older I realized there was no heaven or hell and I shouldn't be afraid that every time I made a mistake or "sinned". Heaven and Hell are just tools religions use to keep the sheep in line so the real truth (whatever that is??) stays hidden.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:09 PM
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We shall all see...that's for sure.
If you're right, it sucks to be us. If i'm right, it sucks to be you.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13


Consider this if you make it to Heaven. One, some, or all of your friends or relatives will go to Hell. Somebody, somewhere that you love will have made enough mistakes, and not asked for forgiveness, and banished to Hell…Therefore you cannot possibly be in a state of pure bliss, with complete peace and happiness to consider yourself to be in Heaven. You will long for them to be in Heaven with you, and the thought of their suffering for eternity would drive you insane. There is no Heaven.

YOU WONT HAVE ANY MEMORY OF THEM!

Consider this also... That “one, some, or all of your friends or relatives” that most definitely made it to Hell. Somewhere, in their tortured mind, while burning in Hell, they will know in their heart the reverse – That someone they love made it to Heaven, even if it’s only one person. Therefore they will have a slight, slight glimmer of hope, faith, and happiness in knowing somebody made it to Heaven. Maybe their friend(s) in Heaven are praying for their soul to be saved from Hell…There is no Hell.

THEY INTENTIONALLY HAVE MEMORY LIKE IN THE STORY OF LAZIRUS TO REMEMBER WHY THEY SUFFER - THEIR EVIL HEARTS ARENT CONCERNED WITH THOSE THEY LOVED WITHIN HEAVEN ONLY ABOUT THEMSELVES AND WHY IT HURTS NOT EVEN WHY THEY ARE THEIR AND WHY THEY DIDNT REPENT WHEN GIVEN THE CHANCE IN LIFE.

There are many things that could happen, but there is no Heaven or Hell when you die.

AND YOU KNOW THIS IS A BOLD FACE LIE!
VENUS


[edit on 4/27/10 by Ophiuchus 13]

you wont have any memory of them? BS thats brainwashing

his statement cannot be a lie

because an all knowing all loving god who cannot/will not interfere with free will will not take away your memories

a paradox most frustrating for some and delightful for others, and apathetic for other others



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by Wondering302
Great thread Signals. When I was young the thought of dying and going to hell terrified me. Panic attacks, sleeplessness, all that fun stuff that goes along with religion. Thank goodness as I got older I realized there was no heaven or hell and I shouldn't be afraid that every time I made a mistake or "sinned". Heaven and Hell are just tools religions use to keep the sheep in line so the real truth (whatever that is??) stays hidden.



exactly!! we are along the same line of thinking i used to freak out about that and the apocalypse i remember when i was younger whenever i looked up and saw some red clouds i would go "#!" wel i didnt swear as much back then but im glad i grew out of it
star for you



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
YOU WONT HAVE ANY MEMORY OF THEM!


Then it may as well have not happened. I find it somewhat disturbing your image of Heaven involves memory sweep.



THEY INTENTIONALLY HAVE MEMORY LIKE IN THE STORY OF LAZIRUS TO REMEMBER WHY THEY SUFFER - THEIR EVIL HEARTS ARENT CONCERNED WITH THOSE THEY LOVED WITHIN HEAVEN ONLY ABOUT THEMSELVES AND WHY IT HURTS NOT EVEN WHY THEY ARE THEIR AND WHY THEY DIDNT REPENT WHEN GIVEN THE CHANCE IN LIFE.


Okay then, if people in Hell have memory they will have the ability to remember good stuff too, as mentioned in the OP.



AND YOU KNOW THIS IS A BOLD FACE LIE!
VENUS



Maybe misguided at best (or worst)
but I have told no lies in the OP.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:25 PM
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Consider this if you make it to Heaven. One, some, or all of your friends or relatives will go to Hell. Somebody, somewhere that you love will have made enough mistakes, and not asked for forgiveness, and banished to Hell…Therefore you cannot possibly be in a state of pure bliss, with complete peace and happiness to consider yourself to be in Heaven. You will long for them to be in Heaven with you, and the thought of their suffering for eternity would drive you insane. There is no Heaven.





Consider this also... That “one, some, or all of your friends or relatives” that most definitely made it to Hell. Somewhere, in their tortured mind, while burning in Hell, they will know in their heart the reverse – That someone they love made it to Heaven, even if it’s only one person. Therefore they will have a slight, slight glimmer of hope, faith, and happiness in knowing somebody made it to Heaven. Maybe their friend(s) in Heaven are praying for their soul to be saved from Hell…There is no Hell.


Sorry mate, but I really dont see this as any form of proof? Nor do i understand how you came to the conclusion there is neither from this explanation.

I can easily say PROOF HEAVEN and HELL exists: Heaven and hell both is a place where the actions of the people of the mortal plane on earth after being judged whether they be good or bad. Like a true court like justice system, without the ability of lies etc. It serves as a form of true justice for the actions of mankind because without it, mankind can simply murder, kill, rape and steal anything they want without facing the consequences...There is heaven and hell.

If that was your idea of proof, than i think by the level of my own evidence ive shown, ive managed to also prove thee is heaven and hell lol.

Mate not to be critical but i thought you were gonna link scientific thought into this... but its simply speculative thought. And this title does not fit into the thread as any form of proof. It simply serves as a biased view of your own, that will serve no debate yet random people who agree with you will post. Yes i agree, why because im atheist and i dont believe in religion etc etc.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:25 PM
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Consider this if you make it to Heaven. One, some, or all of your friends or relatives will go to Hell. Somebody, somewhere that you love will have made enough mistakes, and not asked for forgiveness, and banished to Hell…Therefore you cannot possibly be in a state of pure bliss, with complete peace and happiness to consider yourself to be in Heaven. You will long for them to be in Heaven with you, and the thought of their suffering for eternity would drive you insane. There is no Heaven.





Consider this also... That “one, some, or all of your friends or relatives” that most definitely made it to Hell. Somewhere, in their tortured mind, while burning in Hell, they will know in their heart the reverse – That someone they love made it to Heaven, even if it’s only one person. Therefore they will have a slight, slight glimmer of hope, faith, and happiness in knowing somebody made it to Heaven. Maybe their friend(s) in Heaven are praying for their soul to be saved from Hell…There is no Hell.


Sorry mate, but I really dont see this as any form of proof? Nor do i understand how you came to the conclusion there is neither from this explanation.

I can easily say PROOF HEAVEN and HELL exists: Heaven and hell both is a place where the actions of the people of the mortal plane on earth after being judged whether they be good or bad. Like a true court like justice system, without the ability of lies etc. It serves as a form of true justice for the actions of mankind because without it, mankind can simply murder, kill, rape and steal anything they want without facing the consequences...There is heaven and hell.

If that was your idea of proof, than i think by the level of my own evidence ive shown, ive managed to also prove thee is heaven and hell lol.

Mate not to be critical but i thought you were gonna link scientific thought into this... but its simply speculative thought. And this title does not fit into the thread as any form of proof. It simply serves as a biased view of your own, that will serve no debate yet random people who agree with you will post. Yes i agree, why because im atheist and i dont believe in religion etc etc.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by yeahright
 


Because if Hell is not eternal, you would have a sense of Hope, and you would be able to forsee an ending to the pain and suffering (the glimmer of hope keeps you going).

A life sentence with chance of parole and without chance of parole are 2 very different things!



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by ashanu90
 


umm do you see what your saying. He is not taking away their memories as he is enlightning them to the point that this realm will nolonger be a thought -K-
only the highest need memory of this realm forever. Why should any human dating back to say first days need to keep memory of all their decendents when we are all FAMILY constantly worried their net generations possibilities, SMH. I understand its a hard task to visualize the creator and his intentions but uhh, it is what it is.

[edit on 4/27/10 by Ophiuchus 13]



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:41 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


reply to post by Signals
 


See, now we're off in another direction. Who's in hell? Just because they have no reason to believe there's any hope doesn't mean there isn't any. A lack of a sense of hope doesn't preclude the existence of it.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by Signals

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
YOU WONT HAVE ANY MEMORY OF THEM!


Then it may as well have not happened. I find it somewhat disturbing your image of Heaven involves memory sweep.



THEY INTENTIONALLY HAVE MEMORY LIKE IN THE STORY OF LAZIRUS TO REMEMBER WHY THEY SUFFER - THEIR EVIL HEARTS ARENT CONCERNED WITH THOSE THEY LOVED WITHIN HEAVEN ONLY ABOUT THEMSELVES AND WHY IT HURTS NOT EVEN WHY THEY ARE THEIR AND WHY THEY DIDNT REPENT WHEN GIVEN THE CHANCE IN LIFE.


Okay then, if people in Hell have memory they will have the ability to remember good stuff too, as mentioned in the OP.



AND YOU KNOW THIS IS A BOLD FACE LIE!
VENUS



Maybe misguided at best (or worst)
but I have told no lies in the OP.


Then it may as well have not happened.

Why do you say it may as well not have happened WE ALL HAD TO LEARN THE HARD WAY SINCE EATING FROM TREE OF KNOWLEDGE -K-

I find it somewhat disturbing your image of Heaven involves memory sweep.

Why because the demon NATAS has taught his legions the skill even though its not the correct way of doing it lmao DEMONS lmao (create destroy ereas memory ceate again and dont forget the new bodies dont die so fast HOW FLAWED)

Okay then, if people in Hell have memory they will have the ability to remember good stuff too, as mentioned in the OP.

Those being sent there possess 0 happiness within them hence why they sunk so loooo as far as thinking good stuff hmm thats part of their hell to wish they should of repented. -K-

Maybe misguided at best (or worst)
but I have told no lies in the OP.

Nope its a bold face lie IMAGINE IF BELIEVED??you just caused everyone here to go str8 to hell ohh the irony.



[edit on 4/27/10 by Ophiuchus 13]



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by Signals
reply to post by yeahright
 


Because if Hell is not eternal, you would have a sense of Hope, and you would be able to forsee an ending to the pain and suffering (the glimmer of hope keeps you going).

A life sentence with chance of parole and without chance of parole are 2 very different things!


Its not eternal its written that those located within hell will die TWICE when their leader the GREAT RED DRAGON IS CASTED INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE THEY ARE CASTED ALSO HELL IS WELL YOU KNOW VACANT LOL=END OF ALL EVIL ENERGIES...ENERGY REDISTRIBUTED

FOLLOWERS OF THE LAMB MUST DIE ONCE TO CLEANS OURSELVES OF OUR SINFUL FLESH -K-NONBELIEVERS

[edit on 4/27/10 by Ophiuchus 13]



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 


Can you please start using the quote feature, like this-



"Signals said this and this..."


Now,



IMAGINE IF BELIEVED??


Why would it be so bad? Does someone's belief in the two really affect their actions that much? I mean, we're all sinning like crazy right now, right?


[edit on 27-4-2010 by Signals]



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by Signals
 


I will try
2nd



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 02:54 PM
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I believe in heaven and hell.....but , I have no pics or video. As such, if we have pics and video of the Holocaust and it is denied, and we have pics and video of 9/11 and the planes...and it is denied, do pray tell... How can I prove heaven and hell?



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