98 ATS members and Counting...Australia "Out of Place"

Originally posted by mellisamouse
reply to post by destination now

 

It was around 1986 I think. I was in grade 8, so it would have been on channel 13, because we only had 13 channels in our town way back then.

Of course there would be no evidence of this in OUR timeline, except for other people rembering.

As for Patrick Swayze, he died last september 2009, and then again just around the same time as Micheal Jackson, a few months before that I think it was, mabey he is alive again, not sure.

Micheal J fox was mid 2007 I think, but I think he is alive here.

That guy Vern, also died around the same time as Micheal J Fox, but may be alive again.


There are many, many more, Ed MacMahon has died at least 3 times now, pretty sure he is still dead in this timeline.

So NO eveidence in THIS timeline, just need to see if others rember the same dates.

So basically you think Nelson Mandela was assassinated in 1986 and you heard it on TV Channel 13 (no idea what that is as I'm from the UK) I didn't ask about Patrick Swayze or anyone else and have no idea who vern is, nor do I care. I do wish you would stop adding extraneous information to your posts in an effort to pad out your answers. I specifically asked questions about your belief that Nelson Mandela had died and surely if you thought he had been assassinated you would have remembered more details, but you cannot give me any evidence because as you say, no one else from that particular tmeline remembers it.

So in conclusion, not only is Nelson Mandela not actually dead, you seem to be the only person who does in fact think this (apart from someone else earlier in the thread, who seems to have accepted that they were in fact wrong, as they have not come back to the thread to state their case) and you have no real evidence to back up your belief other than something you think you remember from a tv channel when you were in Grade 8.

Thank you for finally responding to my questions, but sadly it isn't enough to make me believe that you somehow keep shifting timelines and have a constant stream of alternative realities where things you think happened in another timeline that no one else can corroborate or remember, and haven't actually happened in a different timeline that many people can provide evidence of being true.

reply to post by destination now


You don't need to believe any of us.

This thread is for those of us who DO see the changes, to relate to each other.

It is not about convincing or converting others, it is about relating and understanding with people going through the same thing.

Same with UFO threads etc..... debunkers debunk away, but it is not about you, it is about relating to similar experiences shared with others.

reply to post by destination now


This thread is interesting in that the misconceptions being discussed are somewhat common. Or at the very least not isolated ones.

I did do a quick Google search on the terms "Australia Penal Colony" and from the many links that came up, learned that while Australia was not necessarily founded AS a penal colony, it was in fact famous for its penal colonies. The reasons given for placing penal colonies on Australia was the fact it was surrounded by both water AND potentially hostile darker skinned peoples.

Which brings me to wonder if the idea that Australia was more geographically isolated than it in fact is actually springs from it being CULTURALLY isolated.

Think about it this way, it's a largely white culture in a region that is largely brown. That in and of itself can cause those of us in the US and parts of Europe to mentally "block it off" and perhaps emphasize our perceptions of it as being more geographically remote and isolated than it really is.

As for Nelson Mandela and the other names who keep cropping up in the "Dead Again" scenario, I can find plausible explanations for most of them. It did not help that the fellow was stuck in prison for decades. People may have just assumed he died. I DO remember at some point in the mid 80's thinking I heard of his death. Who knows, I didn't exactly keep posters of him up on my bedroom wall. The same can be said for most of the presumed dead and now alive again celebrities. Yes we know of them well, but they are not consistently in the public eye, many of them are old and can reasonably be guessed to have passed on. If someone who is persistently and currently in the public eye, like Obama, dies and then pops back up again, THEN we have something more solid to chew on.

The George Wendt one crops up because his father of the same name died and that got reported and interpreted as George Wendt the actor passing on. I do remember also there was a more recent erroneous reporting of his death--my husband and I had a conversation about it but I can't find it on Google to back up this claim so let's leave it for now. Actors are a common one because so often they get confused with their characters who die onscreen.

I can't quite explain why so many people remember such an elaborate memorial for Billy Graham, who is NOT dead and never did die in the world I'm familiar with. That is one topic I would enjoy reading more about but that is OT from this thread, so again, I'm dropping it.

I don't wish to discredit and can NOT in fact discredit MellissaMouse or anyone here who believes they may have crossed timelines. I quite like MellissaMouse's posts. I think MM has good manners and interesting ideas and generally presents herself well on ATS from what I've seen of her posts. And I've experienced strange "loops" if you will with time, myself, where I seem to have gotten stuck in a Groundhog Day (movie) type scenario, albeit with far less repetition than that silly movie.

But where possible I do want to also explore and consider more ordinary explanations for extraordinary observations. The human memory is subject to so many errors in processing. So, we need to proceed very carefully in drawing conclusions about how the universe operates based on the observations of a demonstrably faulty organ like the human mind.

Edited for spelling mistakes.

[edit on 24-7-2010 by SheeplFlavoredAgain]

Originally posted by destination now
reply to post by Waiting2

 

Err I think Demonseed is on your side and sorry I disagree, I don't think this is a paranormal subject, it's an offshoot from a potential paranormal topic, that has been thoroughly debunked,(the moving of Australia, not that timelines may alter, though not to the point that the observer of such an alleged shift, remembers people who have died and than suddenly after a new shift have not!) so please don't quote ATS terms and conditions at me, and I don't see any mods censoring me either, so I must be well within the bounds of those and remember ATS is all about questioning things and that is all I have ever done and you seem to be referring to approximately 3 posters opinions, so does that mean that the other several thousand are supposed to just take your word as gospel without questioning.

Another ATS rule, in fact its founding principle - Deny Ignorance! Please abide by it, threads are not created for the sole purpose of a few people to spout whatever they want without being challenged and when they are, to accuse the challengers of breaking terms and conditions, you can't just have your own club where you all sit and agree about preposterous assumptions, that are, frankly quite ridiculous and offensive to a large number of posters!


[edit on 23-7-2010 by destination now]

Destination Now,

If you read correctly, you'd see I was posting my message to Demonseed so he/she could see it. I do not consider Demonseed a naysayer.

As for the policy "Deny Ignorance"...there is a way to do that and still be polite, isn't there? That's why I put up the rules in my post. I'm sorry if you were offended. But again, I never mentioned your name, did I? So why should you take offense?????

Also, talking about "Deny Ignorance", technically, the people who remember the map and certain events differently could call all of the naysayers IGNORANT. But, that wouldn't be polite and it's not even the point. The point is we're trying to figure out what's going on.

Destination Now, you say we are ignorant. Okay. Fine. We're ignorant. Now what? That doesn't answer the question why so many of us remember these things.

Personally, I'm curious to see what's our common denominator.

Are we all American? No, so we can't blame the American educational system for that one.

Faulty maps? No, because we can't find any. We've looked.

Faulty memories? Okay, I'd buy that one except for the fact that others remember the same things. It also doesn't explain why people of DIFFERENT ages and sexes living in DIFFERENT places have these unusual memories.

Power of suggestion? Perhaps, except Nelson Mandela's death is not a normal thing a teenager would normally think about in the 80s.

False news reports? Maybe, but then the rest of you don't remember them.


Honestly, I don't know the answer. I was hoping this thread would shed a little light on the subject.

I'm American, and have always had a fascination with Australia. I did a report on Australia in School. I was stunned to realize that you are correct, I too remember seeing Australia further away from the Philippines, and New Zealand being in the north east instead of the south east.

I think I can understand why I never noticed the islands, on many stylized maps the islands north of Australia are sometimes shrunk or entirely missing.

A few months ago, I had seen a new map of Australia and what caught my eye was New Zealand being so far south. I remember Tasmania being the only Islands south of Australia. New Zealand looked totally out of place. I just accepted it and told myself, I must have just never noticed it before.

Then I saw this thread today. Wow.

I'm beginning to think time travel is a reality.

I have to admit this topic fascinates me as it deeply bugged me that I thought for years that Nelson Mandela had died in prison, only to find he was alive and well. For me there was no real transition. One moment I was assured in the knowledge that that particular public figure was laid to rest. Finding out he wasn't dead was kind of a slap-me-awake kind of moment. It's just one of those things I have to let slide because I'll never know why I thought the man had died. I could have sworn it was something I heard in school and on the news. I guess not. Like I said, I wasn't a fangirl. I just remember remarking on the passing of an iconic figure.

Now getting back to Australia---I found this and don't know what it means, can anyone explain what this section of Google is? Did someone play a prank? What? www.gearthhacks.com...

Now New Zealand has moved, but not far enough to account for the discrepencies we're talking about: news.bbc.co.uk...

What's interesting about that second item is that it offers up an explanation of what could have happened in one time line but not in another to account for both or one of the land masses being in a different position than remembered. One time line might have had a significant quake in its dim geological past while the other did not. But that still doesn't explain the fact that in the alleged other timeline, flora and fauna and climate seem identical to what is observed now.

Again, don't be so quick to discount the possiblity of faulty memories--this is something I found elsewhere on ATS and can possibly apply here: www.abovetopsecret.com... It's about a study that demonstrates we can manufacture memories for ourselves that can be utterly convincing, especially if we dwell on certain ideas.



[edit on 25-7-2010 by SheeplFlavoredAgain]

[edit on 25-7-2010 by SheeplFlavoredAgain]

C is the last one I would have picked. I thought it was D or E, except for the missing tip.

I don't buy the timeshift theory, but it really was interesting to read through the thread and see so many people also thought as I did. Why the heck is that?? There's some logical explanation, but darned if I know what it is. I would have sworn Australia was farther south.

[edit on 7/25/2010 by electropop]

Can we get this thread up to 100 pages of utter nonsense?

Seriously it cant be that people really believe that Oz has moved?

All 4 possibilities from the OP dont look real at all. This coming from a person who grew up in north queensland.

reply to post by Fett Pinkus


Well sure, why not? I'm surprised this thread garners as much criticism as it does, considering the repetitious nature of some other threads that crop up on ATS, yet never fail to end up festooned with stars and flags. I find this one rather refreshing after reading umpteen pages of people rehashing the same debates on religion ad nauseum. Or the umpteenth thread advocating shooting all the evil LEO's.

I have informally surveyed friends and family and all of them were surprised to learn Ausralia is not down further south and not more isolated geographically than they thought it was in their casual musings. I think it's of legitimate interest to question why so many of us are so fuzzy when made to pinpoint the "knowledge" we take for granted that we possess. To me it is more revealing about the workings of the human mind than the workings of the universe and the possibilty of moving between timelines.

However, I think it's folly to criticize the people who believe they've shifted between timelines. Why insult or attack them or even try to ridicule them into silence? Can anyone really PROVE they didn't shift between timelines? We can believe it's highly unlikely but we can't prove they didn't. Or that I didn't. I mean I've experienced the same "perceptions" and memories of the "I've shifted timelines" crowd. I've actually experienced a lot of strange phenomena often discussed on ATS. I've experienced events that might be considered hauntings. I've seen the "shadow people" things mentioned on ATS. I've already mentioned here I've had some wicked bad deja vu or time loop type of experiences. I am not certain quite how to describe those events so please excuse my imprecision. Oh and I'm definitely someone who has had to put up with that phenomena where you feel attacked by a malevolent presence in your sleep. That's just listing a few of the oddities that have cropped up in my life that I am trying to explain or debunk for myself. I had always thought my experiences were one-of-a-kind and that I'd never have hope of finding explanations for them. And now thanks to the internet and this site, I find I'm not as alone as I once thought. And I find a lot of my odd experiences aren't necessarily as "paranormal" as I once thought. I'm learning all sorts of things from better educated sources about how my brain could have and likely did glitch and why.

I think the only fair and civil and CONSTRUCTIVE thing to do is present alternatives that have a strong probability of correctly accounting for these and any other strange observations presented on ATS. Then let people evaluate the information put before them and choose to draw whatever conclusions that they will. It's not as if anyone really ever truly succeeds in arguing another person into changing their mind. The other person might slink away from the debate, but their minds are likely to remain as entrenched as ever, especially if they are getting ridiculed into silence. It's not like the winner of these sorts of online debates wins a cash prize, anyway. So why try to ridicule a person into thinking they are wrong when actually you can not PROVE they are wrong and there's even a bare possibility they are right.

It is always a valid option to entirely skip or ignore threads that offend one's sensibilities. As long as a thread is not in violation of the T&C and as long as moderators permit it, sure, why shouldn't it continue if there are willing participants?

so did we get a consensus on where the majority of people thought australia used to be because i dont remember it being so far away from new Guinea then again i dont remember it being that close to it either. but im from melbourne so what would i know.

It is amazing how much black and white this thread is, so many people arguing back and forth with pretty much ''I'M RIGHT'' or "NO YOU'RE WRONG". Basically if some sort of weird timeshift or realityshift did actually happen, who is to say it would happen to everyone? Maybe everyone is correct, some people remember it being in a certain place from their specific timeline and others remember it being in another place because they simply did not shift when the others did for whatever reason. Perhaps the shifts happen spontaneously to random people all the time, who knows. Either way, there has been way too much random bashing in this thread, simply because everyone has such a strong need to be correct.

Why can't people just accept that there may be more then one answer to a question. :/

This is a 19th century Map:



This is a modern Map:

www.multimap.com...


I see absolutely no difference

reply to post by Snowi


lol none of those maps are correst just cause u played a board game doesnt mean that its representation of the world was correct can all 98 of you point to your state on a map??? id be surprised if you all could cause it seems to me like youve never laid eyes on one

C is the correct answer. Perhaps China should stop printing our maps.

hey... guys this might be a little late but... April Fools! lol joking. i do believe most of these stars that die and seem to turn up alive again are just pranks that we may of took literally? just an idea.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Reason why people think Australia and NZ are off the map.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3a40070fb7b3.jpg[/atsimg]

A. I have lived in Aus 28 yrs

lol it is C nice fail by me

-10 points

(and i thought i was good at geography)

There is one very obvious problem with your claim N.Z. was higher up towards the equator than Australia in the past.

Stewart Island has always been very cold and bleak. With penguin colonies and other polar wildlife. Where as Tasmania is near tropical. In fact very similar to the top of N.Z.s North Island.

How do you explain this ?

reply to post by Snowi


98 members of ATS are proud of being as dumb as a sack of hammers, I guess? Really guys? If you remember Australia being somewhere else, could you please share your other memories of the Eocene? 'Cuase damn.

reply to post by Snowi


It's B . Australia in picture C looks ridiculously out of place . It's way to far north . The Australia I remember was completely Isolated.

So Snowi , my friend I guess I'm #100 . Sent you a U2U

S+F my friend.

And can I just say that I am shocked at the level of bullying and abuse by certain individuals.