98 ATS members and Counting...Australia "Out of Place"

reply to post by Snowi


S&F

I personally don't have any memory of Australia / NZ being out of place but thought I'd contribute to this thread cos I did make a comment on the other one.

I basically just want to support all the people who believe that a timeline shift has occurred - my personal belief is that stuff like that can happen, so why not?

And to all the people who will scream till they're blue in the face that "I live in Australia and I know it hasn't moved" - yes, we KNOW that. That's not what these people are saying. They're saying that they possibly 'jumped timelines' from a dimension where these countries were in a different place.

Nobody's saying that in -this- timeline/dimension, the country has moved.

Just wanted to clear that up

Originally posted by riley
The assertion is that an entire continent of people are too stupid to have noticed a change in the position of their own country

*sigh* Why does a thread like this, and the other one, get these kind of responses? It's clear that what is being discussed is a timeline shift. We are not discussing the possibility that an entire country has moved around like a flippin' ballroom dancer sometime during the night.

Why is that so hard to understand?

Ok, so maybe you don't believe in the possibility of timeline shifts. Fine, not a problem - no one's forcing you to believe in them.

But please, you and all others who think that this is all about saying you're 'stupid', or you 'don't know where your own country is' - it's not! I really cannot understand where you get that idea from.

As I said on my previous post, we're talking about the possibility of moving from a dimension where Australia / NZ are in 'X' position to a dimension where australia / NZ are in 'Y' position.

This could be a really good thread if it weren't for all the bad attitudes going around.

The members *who DO* belive in a timeline/dimension shift... can you(s) Please-Explain about the timeline/dimension shifts in a understanding way, so the rest of us can understand. ThankYou.

Australia 'Out of place'?
WTF are you all talking about?, sure maps don't always line up, each version over the years has small differences, and sometimes people don't always get it right.
Surely this is all peoples 'opinions', how do they 'know' for fact?
I feel that the UK is too small , but theres nothing I can do about it apart from move myself.
Besides who cares if Australia or ANY other country isn't where its supposed to be, what would be the purpose of physically MOVING a WHOLE country a few miles from where the map says its supposed to be?. What would be the purpose? and more so WHO would have the technology to do it. even if you could tell if there's been a timeline change ( which I seriously doubt from my limited understanding of temporal mechanics) the big questions are WHO?, HOW?, and WHY?.
My one question to all the members that think Australia has been moved , how can YOU tell? is it a gut feeling , intuition, or psychic communication or have you actually measured the distances from the nearest neighbour yourselves to the nearest millimetre.
Rant over. Man I had a coffee and now I know why I don't drink it often anymore. Sorry if I upset or offend anyone but I feel that this is a bit of a pointless 'observation, unless your complaining about innaccurate maps.
Besides the ONLY natural thing that can move countries is Mother Earth as she shifts the tectonic plates. ( takes a while )
DW , leave the coffee alone willya?.

reply to post by gordonwest


Ok, well this is how I would explain it.

The idea of timeline or dimension shifts comes from the theory that we live not in a Universe, but in a Multiverse, where there are many different 'copies' if you will, of the universe. But each 'copy' is different - could be subtle differences, could be major differences.

I guess if you've ever seen the show 'Sliders' then that might help explain it, but of course that's not where the idea comes from.

The theory I've read about is that whenever a decision has to be made, reality 'branches off' into all possible outcomes, and we find ourselves on one of these outcomes (but another version of ourselves will exist in each other outcome).

Let's take a simple scenario.

Say I am out of work, and I get really lucky and get two job offers on the same day. One is in the city where I live, the other is several hundred miles away in a rural area.

When I decide which job to take, reality branches off, creating another universe/timeline where I took the other job. So there is now two Universes, existing at the same time. One, (you could call it 'this one') is where I am working at a new job in the city and the other is where another version of me is working in a small rural town.

(This is of course very simplistic, there are many universes existing all at once, but its easier to just think of two for this illustration).

Now, where does a timeline shift come in?

Well, say there I am six months later, working at my job in the city. From my office window I can see a new office block being built on the edge of town. My colleagues and I discuss this, hoping that once the offices are built, our company might relocate to the nice new offices.

Then I go on holiday for a week. On my first day back at work, I look out of my window as usual, but there is no sign of the office block. I ask my colleagues about it, but they have no idea what I'm talking about.

I am 100% sure that there was an office block being built, but it seems like I'm the only one who knows about it. I drive by the site later that day, but it is just a wasteland, or perhaps there are houses there instead. I go to the planning office - the council has no knowledge of a new office block.

The explanation for this is that somewhere along the way, while I was on holiday, I 'jumped' into another timeline, where an office block wasn't being built. I know it was there, but no one else does, and they'll be adamant that I'm wrong and that there never was an office block on the site.

Some people might even say I'm crazy for being so sure about it, but I know I'm right - yet I can't prove it. In this 'new' timeline, (new to me, anyway) there was never any intention for an office block to be built, therefore I can never prove that in 'my' timeline, it existed.

Makes sense?

The changes in each timeline can be large or small. In some there can be very subtle differences that you'd only notice if you were really paying attention, such as, say, a tree that is a few yards further down the garden. In other timelines, there could be major differences - hence the discussion about Australia being in a different place. Or maybe a timeline where Hitler died as a kid... etc, etc

Hope my long explanation helps


The multiverse theory also allows for the possibility of time travel, because it would provide a solution to the 'grandfather paradox'. But that's probably for another thread

When young I remember that the explanation for the Aboriginals being in Australia was that they crossed a land bridge. When the land bridge was broken up into pieces and became islands the aboriginals are cut off and isolated.

Where is Austrailia? Somewhere at the end of that land bridge.

While I know that we are on a different timeline what I don't know that its as dramatic as you suggest...that Australia is way out of place.

I think the re-discovery of 'extinct' animal life or of never before seen plants and animals is better evidence in support of timeline shifts.

[edit on 16-6-2010 by bruxfinn]

I think B.

But then again, I sucked at geography. I thought that NZ was North of Australia

reply to post by tappy


Thanks for shareing that, Tappy. I gave ya a blue star for the Info.

I would also like to add my comment line about it. For a timeline to exist, that it is the situation for calling 'this universe', a multi-dimensional - infinite universe. For everybody-every individual human to have and will live in this Earth, this timeline - There is a multi-dimensional - infinite universe for every individual human.

Yeah, I do sortof know about the Multi-Uni-Verse. *giggles*

For goodness sake... how long are you guys going to keep trying to drag these threads out? I've lived in Oz all my life and I can assure each and every one of you who is sooo certain Australia has moved that it most definately has not moved at all in any way.
Try this exercise to prove me wrong... get up off your butts and go down to your local library or second hand book shop. Get an old atlas... get a new atlas... compare the maps. Then go back home and hang your head in shame.
I laugh at your inferior memories...

reply to post by gordonwest


You're welcome and thanks

Yeah, you've got it. Kinda mind-boggling, isn't it?


Right now I'm wishing I was in the universe where I own a nice house in the country...

Originally posted by Dragon33
For goodness sake... how long are you guys going to keep trying to drag these threads out? I've lived in Oz all my life and I can assure each and every one of you who is sooo certain Australia has moved that it most definately has not moved at all in any way.

*clears throat*

For the third time, can I just say - no one is saying Australia has moved!

Please, try reading the thread and understanding what it is we're talking about.

I laugh at your inferior memories...

Yeah, and I laugh at your inability to read the thread properly

reply to post by riley


The "assertion" most certainly is NOT that a whole continent of people are too stupid to have noticed their continent has "moved". That's ludicrous and you know that. Or, you are really so self-involved that you could take someone's subjective experience (that they never claim is a universal experience) and make an "insult" out of that. That's ridiculous and not what anyone is claiming. But I think you know that. I think your trying to justify yours and others insults by claiming the whole thread is a personal insult to you. Absurd.
Or do you really not get it? I find that hard to believe with 15+ pages.

As far as the T&C are concerned, my post (obviously) wasn't in reference to your post, but rather to the multiple threads that had nothing more to offer than "98 stupid people on ats." brilliant. you think that's not a simple insult that offers nothing to the thread? try that on any other thread. for real.

Originally posted by tappy
reply to post by gordonwest

 

Ok, well this is how I would explain it.

The idea of timeline or dimension shifts comes from the theory that we live not in a Universe, but in a Multiverse, where there are many different 'copies' if you will, of the universe. But each 'copy' is different - could be subtle differences, could be major differences.

I guess if you've ever seen the show 'Sliders' then that might help explain it, but of course that's not where the idea comes from.

The theory I've read about is that whenever a decision has to be made, reality 'branches off' into all possible outcomes, and we find ourselves on one of these outcomes (but another version of ourselves will exist in each other outcome).

Let's take a simple scenario.

Say I am out of work, and I get really lucky and get two job offers on the same day. One is in the city where I live, the other is several hundred miles away in a rural area.

When I decide which job to take, reality branches off, creating another universe/timeline where I took the other job. So there is now two Universes, existing at the same time. One, (you could call it 'this one') is where I am working at a new job in the city and the other is where another version of me is working in a small rural town.

(This is of course very simplistic, there are many universes existing all at once, but its easier to just think of two for this illustration).

Now, where does a timeline shift come in?

Well, say there I am six months later, working at my job in the city. From my office window I can see a new office block being built on the edge of town. My colleagues and I discuss this, hoping that once the offices are built, our company might relocate to the nice new offices.

Then I go on holiday for a week. On my first day back at work, I look out of my window as usual, but there is no sign of the office block. I ask my colleagues about it, but they have no idea what I'm talking about.

I am 100% sure that there was an office block being built, but it seems like I'm the only one who knows about it. I drive by the site later that day, but it is just a wasteland, or perhaps there are houses there instead. I go to the planning office - the council has no knowledge of a new office block.

The explanation for this is that somewhere along the way, while I was on holiday, I 'jumped' into another timeline, where an office block wasn't being built. I know it was there, but no one else does, and they'll be adamant that I'm wrong and that there never was an office block on the site.

Some people might even say I'm crazy for being so sure about it, but I know I'm right - yet I can't prove it. In this 'new' timeline, (new to me, anyway) there was never any intention for an office block to be built, therefore I can never prove that in 'my' timeline, it existed.

Makes sense?

The changes in each timeline can be large or small. In some there can be very subtle differences that you'd only notice if you were really paying attention, such as, say, a tree that is a few yards further down the garden. In other timelines, there could be major differences - hence the discussion about Australia being in a different place. Or maybe a timeline where Hitler died as a kid... etc, etc

Hope my long explanation helps

The multiverse theory also allows for the possibility of time travel, because it would provide a solution to the 'grandfather paradox'. But that's probably for another thread

wow thank you for taking the time to write that. Hopefully people will stop jumping on the bandwagon and calling us stupid. (although i doubt it)

Originally posted by demonseed
wow thank you for taking the time to write that. Hopefully people will stop jumping on the bandwagon and calling us stupid. (although i doubt it)

No problem Hope it was useful

I'd like to think it will stop all the name calling, but we'll see

Well, if the concept of the multiverse is to be believed it is a bit more complicated than described. Looking at decisions from a human point of view has no value since you are applying it to a natural process.

For the universe, the direction of motion of a single subatomic particle which uses the minimum possible amount of energy (1 quanta) is probably one of the simplest possible decisions. Therefore each possible direction with each possible velocity for each possible particle should result in a separate universe altogether.

Of course these will be nearly identical to our own and the ones with more major changes will be radically different to our own. Now if we are to believe that interaction is possible between several parallel universes then a simple question arises.

Would interaction between more similar universes be easier, so to say. I assume a shift would require some amount of energy and a shift between more radically different worlds would require a higher amount of energy. The universe tends to take the path of least resistance so that brings the probability of interaction between vastly different realities down to nearly zero. The probability of this shift happening to multiple organized collections of atoms with no rearrangement or loss of information in the process of transfer even lower.

The last paragraph has no backing and is merely my logical train of thought. I would be happy to admit I am wrong if someone can bring some new information to light.

Originally posted by Transience
Well, if the concept of the multiverse is to be believed it is a bit more complicated than described. Looking at decisions from a human point of view has no value since you are applying it to a natural process.

Yes, of course it is more complicated than I described. Way more complicated I was merely using a very simple example to try and illustrate the issue so that people could understand.

Would interaction between more similar universes be easier, so to say.

Interesting point. On the face of it, one would say yes. I think it's perfectly possible that we can shift between timelines without noticing, simply because there is not enough of a difference in anything we see around us, to notice a change.

But my personal view is that there are so many things in this Universe/Multiverse and in quantum physics that we really don't understand, that it's impossible to say how or why these shifts might occur and what the 'rules' for them are.

That's what makes it such an interesting topic

OK, I had to create an account just to comment on this. First of all: sorry for what may seem like weird vagueness, I try to remain as anonymous as possible online, which is hopefully just paranoia. So, here's my weird story: I've always taken an interest in Australia and NZ, as some of my favorite films come from this region, and I was always an A student in geography. One of my favorite gifts as a kid was a globe, which my siblings and I used all the time for games we made up. My favorite reading material was National Geographic - ancient civilizations, animals around the world, etc. My siblings and I were all in GATE classes (like Honors classes for grade school). Straight A's through college graduation. Anyways...

Yesterday an opportunity came up for me to travel to Oz and NZ this winter, and I went to look at a map of airports there to try to plan a trip...and the map I saw was COMPLETELY, UNNERVINGLY WRONG. Not like, "wow, I thought NZ was northeast of Oz and closer to it, guess my memory's going" -- I was so CERTAIN it was that I immediately looked at another map, and was completely baffled. My traveling partner had the same reaction!

Then, later the SAME NIGHT I came to ATS to look for threads about the BP spill, and under recent threads I found this one. And it spooked me so much that I asked my mother and siblings where Oz and NZ are in relation to each other (w/o telling why I was asking). My mother and 1 sibling said w/o hesitation that NZ was NE of Oz, while the other sibling correctly said it was SE. (So much for my theory that our made-in-China globe was some sort of communist trick on us).

It's really strange that we're all so CERTAIN of things being different (my mother, 1 sibling, travel partner, and I). Everything else about the current map of the world looks fine, it's just this region that's off (Oz should also be further than PNG, in my vivid memory of my globe, plus past maps, geog quizzes, etc).

I don't think this has anything to do with a time shift, because, as some have pointed out, other things would be changed drastically as well. And then there's the climate of NZ. It's just this vivid picture in my mind of the geography in this area of the world that doesn't match up. It seems clear this is a false memory. BUT...

For so many people to have the same false memory, and be so certain of it, and realize around the same time that it is wrong -- that's what spooks me. Did you know that specific false memories can be implanted by using light signals? Or during hypnosis? Or via subliminal messages (visual or aural)? Or psychotropics?

Consider this: Implanting a false memory that turns out not to be true is a good way to A) make a person doubt other memories that may be real, and B) make other people think this person is delusional.

If anything, this sounds more like a psychological experiment on unwitting human test subjects than a timeline shift. Certainly wouldn't be the first time. Here's a question: is there something that we all have in common? (That is, people who remember NZ and Australia being in different places - esp. those who recall NZ in the northeast).

Of course it could all be coincidence, but it is a rather peculiar coincidence.

reply to post by tappy


However, this theory requires Multiple Worlds theory to be true, which, as of now, there is no more proof for it than any of the other quantum theories. Furthermore, those who do support the theory state that it would be impossible for one to move between the different universes, thus making a timeline shift impossible.

Originally posted by burdenofdreams
OK, I had to create an account just to comment on this. First of all: sorry for what may seem like weird vagueness, I try to remain as anonymous as possible online, which is hopefully just paranoia. So, here's my weird story: I've always taken an interest in Australia and NZ, as some of my favorite films come from this region, and I was always an A student in geography. One of my favorite gifts as a kid was a globe, which my siblings and I used all the time for games we made up. My favorite reading material was National Geographic - ancient civilizations, animals around the world, etc. My siblings and I were all in GATE classes (like Honors classes for grade school). Straight A's through college graduation. Anyways...

Yesterday an opportunity came up for me to travel to Oz and NZ this winter, and I went to look at a map of airports there to try to plan a trip...and the map I saw was COMPLETELY, UNNERVINGLY WRONG. Not like, "wow, I thought NZ was northeast of Oz and closer to it, guess my memory's going" -- I was so CERTAIN it was that I immediately looked at another map, and was completely baffled. My traveling partner had the same reaction!

Then, later the SAME NIGHT I came to ATS to look for threads about the BP spill, and under recent threads I found this one. And it spooked me so much that I asked my mother and siblings where Oz and NZ are in relation to each other (w/o telling why I was asking). My mother and 1 sibling said w/o hesitation that NZ was NE of Oz, while the other sibling correctly said it was SE. (So much for my theory that our made-in-China globe was some sort of communist trick on us).

It's really strange that we're all so CERTAIN of things being different (my mother, 1 sibling, travel partner, and I). Everything else about the current map of the world looks fine, it's just this region that's off (Oz should also be further than PNG, in my vivid memory of my globe, plus past maps, geog quizzes, etc).

I don't think this has anything to do with a time shift, because, as some have pointed out, other things would be changed drastically as well. And then there's the climate of NZ. It's just this vivid picture in my mind of the geography in this area of the world that doesn't match up. It seems clear this is a false memory. BUT...

For so many people to have the same false memory, and be so certain of it, and realize around the same time that it is wrong -- that's what spooks me. Did you know that specific false memories can be implanted by using light signals? Or during hypnosis? Or via subliminal messages (visual or aural)? Or psychotropics?

Consider this: Implanting a false memory that turns out not to be true is a good way to A) make a person doubt other memories that may be real, and B) make other people think this person is delusional.

If anything, this sounds more like a psychological experiment on unwitting human test subjects than a timeline shift. Certainly wouldn't be the first time. Here's a question: is there something that we all have in common? (That is, people who remember NZ and Australia being in different places - esp. those who recall NZ in the northeast).

Of course it could all be coincidence, but it is a rather peculiar coincidence.

interesting take on this... however... i think i might be able to disprove it to you(well, to some degree).

Ok, so here we go:


Ok lets say the memory you recall is memory A.

The current state is memory B.

When looking back at your entire life, which do you recall? Memory A? Correct?
This means that memory A has been the memory that has followed you and is the picture that comes up in your mind whenever you try to recall this given scenario.
But, memory B is the current memory. So... do you really believe that a psychoactive drug caused your entire past life-span to follow a false memory?
Its possible, yes, but just as you said you got As in geography and vividly remember not only the maps but yourself getting an A based on those maps(maps from memory A).

I dont disagree that some kind of mental/psychoactive effects may be used on us as experiments, i just disagree with that reason being the answer to what are experiencing here.

[edit on 17-6-2010 by demonseed]

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by tappy

 

However, this theory requires Multiple Worlds theory to be true, which, as of now, there is no more proof for it than any of the other quantum theories. Furthermore, those who do support the theory state that it would be impossible for one to move between the different universes, thus making a timeline shift impossible.

Im not trying to sound mean here, but whens the last time humanity has been 100% correct 100% of the time?

What we have here is clearly unexplainable. I think its important for science to understand it and for people to take this "phenomena" seriously, whatever the cause may be.