Free Energy nonsense

So everyone is saying there is "No such thing as FREE ENERGY"..



Ok ill buy that...


But WHOO can produce the CHEAPEST energy?
And YES im talking money here..

As everyone is more interested in creating something from nothing id like
to go a step ahead. I say we will have to wait for some time before that can
happen.

BUT my challenge is:
Produce energy at the CHEAPEST way for the consumer.

Now, the rules are simple..
1: Consumer price must be the lowest possible.

End of rules..

Oh btw:

NO MAKEBELIVE GADGETS OR MAGIC STUFF

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Miccey]

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Miccey]

reply to post by Miccey


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Do you pay money for sunlight?

Well, I guess there is free energy after all. Sunlight.

Nuff said.

Nicola Tesla invented a system that could provide free wireless energy to the world while working under grants from JP Morgan. Morgan killed the project and covered it up, telling Tesla that if he couldn't put a meter on it and charge for it, then it wouldn't happen. The US government illegally took all of Tesla's research and property at his death in 1943.

Ask them where our free energy is.

reply to post by Miccey


If we are talking realistic and available now, i'd say a cheap method would be to have incinerators and burn household waste (with properly equipped carbon catchers and pollution filters installed etc)
Use to make steam, to run generators.

A cheaper still option would be something similar to enviro-project's convection tower.
A large hollow metal tower, painted black to absorb the heat of the sun and in the upper half, place turbines (large fans) in series at periodic intervals, and then convection will do the rest.

Hot air rises, so heat from the sun will cause the air inside the tubular metal tower to rise up, pulling in cooler air from the bottom of the tower at ground level which in turns get's heated and rises. The rushing air, will turn the turbine blades to produce electricity.

I'm actually planning to build one of these myself...but on a much smaller scale. I've been saving all of our metal baby milk cans, and must have about 60 - 80 by now (each is about 10" long), and i have also been saving any aluminium drinks cans we use, and have a similar number. I plan to place the smaller drinks cans inside the larger diameter (5") baby food cans, pack with steel wool, and paint the outside jet black BBQ paint. I am either going to place multiple small 5" 12V fans at funnel points along the way (to metal cones lip to lip, and have the air rushing up inside the drinks cans to turn them.

On a hot summers day, it should generate a fair amount.

reply to post by muzzleflash


nope, sunlight is free, but solar panels are quite expensive.

Nikola Tesla drove around in a car that ran off of free energy.

waterpoweredcar.com...

Enough of Tesla, hasnt been PROVEN anyway..So...

And sunlight isnt cheap..The material needed is VERRY expensiv.
AND in the north Sunlight is scarse some parts of the year...

The Black Tower sounds interesting, but still it need sunlight..

Have you seen the gas bladder system?
I saw it in the caves in Turkey i think it was.
They use a system of plastic bag style bladders that harness gas from thier...leavings.
They cook with this gas.
I saw the docco years ago so i cant remember exactly but i think they used it for everything heating,cooking hot water...everything. They are remote caves in Turkey, in fact i am going to go research that now and see if i can find a link......
Of course People in developed areas would find that too "gross".
Hey it would be stopping a lot of Methane from escaping into the ozone layer.
(Now that's a word i have not heard about since the popularity of global warming, the ozone hole, oh the fashion and fall of environmental causes.....)

Originally posted by spikey
reply to post by Miccey

 

A cheaper still option would be something similar to enviro-project's convection tower.
A large hollow metal tower, painted black to absorb the heat of the sun and in the upper half, place turbines (large fans) in series at periodic intervals, and then convection will do the rest.

Hot air rises, so heat from the sun will cause the air inside the tubular metal tower to rise up, pulling in cooler air from the bottom of the tower at ground level which in turns get's heated and rises. The rushing air, will turn the turbine blades to produce electricity.

I'm actually planning to build one of these myself...but on a much smaller scale. I've been saving all of our metal baby milk cans, and must have about 60 - 80 by now (each is about 10" long), and i have also been saving any aluminium drinks cans we use, and have a similar number. I plan to place the smaller drinks cans inside the larger diameter (5") baby food cans, pack with steel wool, and paint the outside jet black BBQ paint. I am either going to place multiple small 5" 12V fans at funnel points along the way (to metal cones lip to lip, and have the air rushing up inside the drinks cans to turn them.

On a hot summers day, it should generate a fair amount.

Hi Spikey,
Good you are planning to build one. 5" Fans in series.
But remember the convection currents and all the rest will require some basic design calculations. You have to generate sufficient mass flow to turn the fans and overcome the torque requirements to support any load. What is going to be the height of your tower?
B4 you invest in fans, suggest you build the tower first and see how much convection currents you are generating. But good luck all the same

Cheers

Geothermal...has to be the best idea. Solar is good too but the technology is a little complicated in my opinion.

...all that heat down below. Just sitting there.

Originally posted by Miccey

But WHOO can produce the CHEAPEST energy?
And YES im talking money here..

Depends where you are located.

Heat is the lowest form of energy, and burning some fuel the obvious way to get heat.

The cheapest way might be burning whale or seal oil if you live in the arctic.

Or maybe camel dung if you live in a desert region.

Between those extremes we might have wood, coal, oil, or natural gas. What is cheapest depends on where you are.

Where I am, natural gas is the cheapest heating fuel, heating value per dollar. About one twelfth of what Americans pay for natural gas.

Somewhere else natural gas might not even be available at any price.

reply to post by Silver Shadow


Agreed, location is the key.

We're using hydroelectric power here in the Pacific Northwest. I don't know what it originally cost to build the the Dams, but they last a long time and require little maintenance, We once had the least expensive power in the U.S. Some of our power companies are fully publicly owned and some are public with private companies trading it. Regardless of the cost of producing & distributing it the consumer pays the market prices - the difference is that the profit margin on hydro power is much larger than most other forms of electricity.

If we have a lower snow pack than normal that means that there will be less power available in the summer to sell to California, thus they will raise our rates to compensate for the revenue lost by not having as much extra power to sell.

It's nothing but a game, the publicly owned utilities just see it as another way to dip into taxpayers pockets without calling it a tax. The water is essentially free and most of the expense was paid for long ago. All they have to do is maintenance - yet as long as there is a market and more expensive forms of power generation on the grid it will always cost the user market price which has nothing to do with cost.

The only way we will ever have cheap power is to generate your own individual power on site. Solar & wind seem to be the best at the moment, but with the cost of replacing your Arrays every 20 years it is currently cost prohibitive.

[edit on 30-4-2010 by verylowfrequency]

ok, how about you buy an exercise bike, set up a generator driven by the wheel, that generator could charge some efficient batteries that could be used to cut down on the electricity bought from the electric company. kids ant to watch tv or surf the net? 1 hour on the bike will give them 10- 12 hours of power.

My guess would be something like a fast breeder reactor, then sell off the produced isotopes to the highest bidder, subsidizing the electricity to the consumer. I expect if you wanted to get mercenary about it, there are a number of small states that would be willing to pay large amounts of cash for the chance to kick start their nuclear programmes.

Hey you said cheapest - no stipulations on wther there'd be a population to use it.

Originally posted by Nutzoid
ok, how about you buy an exercise bike, set up a generator driven by the wheel, that generator could charge some efficient batteries that could be used to cut down on the electricity bought from the electric company. kids ant to watch tv or surf the net? 1 hour on the bike will give them 10- 12 hours of power.

To power what, a pocket calculator ?

If you have any idea of how physically exhausting it is just to generate minimal electrical power, you would not even be suggesting this.

More like pedal CONSTANTLY at very high effort for three hours to watch maybe half an hours TV. I am not kidding.

Assuming you are talking about personally generated electrical energy.

In lieu of having a running stream with sufficient head for hydropower in your yard. In lieu of the initial capital outlay of a photovoltaic system. In lieu of the capital outlay and maintenance costs of a wind generation systems. There is one answer.

Fossil fuels. If it weren't the cheapest we would be using something else.

Most people just have no idea how physically weak a human is at producing energy.

Try pushing your car for one mile, and see how long it takes you, and how exhausted you are at the end.

Then just marvel at what your car engine actually does.

reply to post by verylowfrequency

Solar & wind seem to be the best at the moment, but with the cost of replacing your Arrays every 20 years it is currently cost prohibitive.

Not quite so, actually...


Do you know what the maintenance costs on a solar panel is?


Zero...


Photovoltaics are solid state; No moving parts, no pesky vibrations decalibrating the equipment.


Just two layers of silicon turning photons into electrical current through the junction of two dis-similarly charged crystal sheets.


No bolts to tighten, no seals to replace, no burner assemblies to clean, no boiler water to dump, no heavy fuels, no sight-glass, no pressure release and safety valves, no Extreme pressure steam, no complicated spinning turbines...

Just two sheets of fused silica.... turning photon to electrical pressure.


The part about replacing solar panels has to do with the sheets changing their electrical properties to closely match the other, thus... lowering their overall output voltage (and thus, power)

They still, however... work.


Just at a lowered power output (mostly 50%)...

They can only be warrantied up to that point, because they no longer function as first purchased... but they STILL produce voltage, and current flow.


Solar Cells have a remarkably long lifespan, given competing power generation systems.


I have already highlighted some of the maintenance "Costs" of steam turbine systems...

To ADD to this list, there is no blade, and generator maintenance as on a wind turbine.

There is no massive ecological impact such as with hydroelectric, not to mention the costs of maintaining a giant wall, built to hold back a lake or river full of water while the turbines spin a generator.

No moving parts... it's WONDERFUL.


I would even go so far as to say that we should change our entire homes electrical system to a 12-24 volt direct current, locally powered.


Solar is Awesome.


-Edrick

Solar and wind .End of story.Nothing comes close. Of course you pay for your power system up front .cost me about 5000$ .I never run out and have no power bill for 10 years .Runs a house with 5 people . Car cigarette lighter sockets instead of 240v in each room .Can you jump start your car from your house?