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Arizona HB 1070.How could you not support it?

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posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 06:45 PM
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I concur with the notion that this law affects every American Citizen.
Personally, I don't usually carry id unless I'm engaging in a licensed/registered activity. When I'm a rider, not a driver - or take a stroll - or ride a bicycle - no need for me to burden myself with any form of id. But I live in a very small town in Texas, many citizens of Hispanic descent also live here and I believe if we had this kind of law there would definitely be abuses. As one of our leading citizens who expressed a desire to close all the routes in/out of town and have law enforcement "sweep" every house for illegal aliens responded to my vociferous objection of his idea: "You're white why would you be concerned." My response was that it would be a "fatal mistake" for law enforcement to violate my 4th ammendment rights without a warrant.

BTW, I'm not concerned with illegal immigration in the least. I AM concerned about laws that magnify the potential for abuse of citizens.

gj




posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by TaxpayersUnleashed
 





"I know first hand that Sheriff Joe is racially profiling people.

It is not the best feeling when you are pulled over for having a quarter sized chip on your window or when you're driving down a road and it's blocked of by a Sheriff Checkpoint to check your legal status.

Yes, illegal is illegal and they shouldn't be here, but this does not mean I have to sacrafice my rights for the "safety" of AZ."


I said this last July on Ats topic,"DHS strips Arizona sheriff of authority to patrol for illegal immigrants"
Now I get to add local PD to the list of people that stereotype me as an illegal. And NO, I do not have to show my papers, it's my god damn right!
SB 1070



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by lpowell0627
 


This is exactly what I've been saying for some time. These people are going to wind up getting ahead of the line in one form or another.

Thus far my Resident Alien(Green) Card has cost me a total of $1000 and I didn't even have to pay for the card itself. My citizenship application is $765 alone, and then there's all the other fees, passport style photos, fingerprints, background checks, and a whole host of other crap. Much of it necessary.

It took my family ten years to get the green light from the US. In 1989 the finally granted us political refugee status. We did everything right, we play by the rules, and it does, in fact, piss me off to no end that people never seem to take this into account.


I appreciate people like you and your family who have come here legally and respected our laws. Big hug!!!!! Illegals just waltz in cutting ahead of those who are doing the right thing.

Many of them, are criminals and a danger to society. Some will argue that the cost is not feasible for the poor illegals. The ones that I knew paid a lot of money for their entrance into the US, false documentations, stolen identities etc. Most of them have no desire to become legal citizens and have told me that they would return to their country of origin eventually.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 



I take it you are for open borders and allowing Illegals to vote?


No and no.

I'm for MORE open borders than there are now...but not completely open...I would say close to open...but not open.

And I think only citizens should vote...I don't even advocate for legal residents to have the right to vote.


But thanks for sterotyping me...much appreciated.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by stereotype

Yes, illegal is illegal and they shouldn't be here, but this does not mean I have to sacrafice my rights for the "safety" of AZ."


Do you know what is so great about state laws and not federal laws? You don't need to live in the state that you don't like, but with federal laws you basically have nowhere to go. There are states I would not live in and so I have a choice as you do.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher


I'm for MORE open borders than there are now...but not completely open...I would say close to open...but not open.



And what the hell would that be, a four lane highway instead of an eight lane one?

So if 500 million people around the world decided to go through you rather open borders would you see that as a good thing?



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 08:23 PM
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Of course it is an inconveniance to legal citizens who are brown and they shouldn't have to be going through this. The point is, if there wasn't such a serious poblem with illigals, most who are brown, then this wouldn't have to be happening. The government has done nothing to solve the problem, the corporations getting rich on cheap labor arn't going to do anything about it. In the meantime, legal citizenz are suffering and are not safe.

To me, anything that will help and make illegals think twice is a step in the right direction. Someone has to do something and Arizona has every right to protect its' citizens. Is it a bigger deal to carry proper paperwork for identification purposes and help keep people safe? Or is it better that we ignore the illegals as we have for many years and things continue and get progressively worse? It's not just the borders people. There are millions of illegals all across the USA. Many of us have felt the effects in one way or another and have pointed this out numerous times.

American citizens have had enough and no matter what people say, something will be done and there will be many people upset. If amnesty is passed, many will fight against it. if something is done to stop it, many will be upset about that. You can't please all of the people all of the time. Right now Arizona has the wisdom and courage to at least try something.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


NYC requires ID for everybody since 9/11. No big deal there.

Racial profiling is politically incorrect, but necessary in some cases. If the millions of illegals weren't here then we would have no problem. They're to blame, not the enforcers of the law. And my emphasis is LAW. I'd like to see open borders like in the EU, but as long as illegal immigration is against the law this case is clear cut.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


I was born in Phoenix and have planned on dying in Phoenix.


All I want is to have my little bubble where "the man" stays the hell out of my business. This bill does not help.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by AllIsOne
 



NYC requires ID for everybody since 9/11. No big deal there.


Could you provid a linke to a source for this? I'm a bit of a stickler on people making random claims as fact without providing a source.


Racial profiling is politically incorrect, but necessary in some cases.


No...it is not "politically incorrect"...it is unconstitutional and illegal.

Quite a big difference.

So having said that...it is never "necessary" in any case.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 09:50 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 

Maybe this is one of the reasons the law was passed.
Mexican Cartels Make Phoenix U.S. Kidnap Capital
www.judicialwatch.org...
Calif/Texas/Nevada need to do the same thing.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by stereotype
reply to post by Xtrozero
 


I was born in Phoenix and have planned on dying in Phoenix.


All I want is to have my little bubble where "the man" stays the hell out of my business. This bill does not help.


You have spent more time on this post than the time you will most likely ever spend proving you are an American, but I'm sure you will say that is not the point.

I think the ranchers near the border have your views, except "the man" in their case are illegal aliens getting in their little bubble and sometimes killing them.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:11 PM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


I work construction. Do you know what it's like to have someone come up and ask "speaky English," or better yet, people talk trash about you eating a buritto, not knowing you speaky English very well?

This is EXACTLY what "it" is about.

Do I agree illegals should get out? Yes. Do I agree the ranchers should defend their bubbles? Hell yes.......doesn't mean I should be the one to sacrifice my time that one second more.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by sadwolf
 


That was one of the reasons... so was this;

my.auburnjournal.com...

And so was this;

www.azcentral.com...

And so was this;

www.infowars.com...

You know, I had four more of these lined up from California to Texas, but I think that'll do. I got tired of posting the same thing in thread after thread so just let the stories speak for themselves.

Anyone who says illegal immigration doesn't matter but asking for i.d. in these border states does is ignorant beyond words and can't put two and two together - if you're of hispanic origin and mad as hell at what just passed in AZ then you have the above examples and the Federal Government's inaction to blame, nothing else.

Honestly, if those cartel loving asshats had just left that rancher alone, chances are we wouldn't even be having this discussion - of course, it just would have been pushed to a later date but at least people in AZ wouldn't have panicked to the point where their state government felt like it needed to take such drastic measures.

Anyway, short of the Federal Government actually enforcing its own laws and recognizing the severity of the situation, I can't blame the governor for passing this... she was painted into a corner.














[edit on 27-4-2010 by Legion2112]



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:46 PM
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damnit 2x post

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Xtrozero]



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:46 PM
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Originally posted by stereotype


I work construction. Do you know what it's like to have someone come up and ask "speaky English," or better yet, people talk trash about you eating a buritto, not knowing you speaky English very well?

This is EXACTLY what "it" is about.

Do I agree illegals should get out? Yes. Do I agree the ranchers should defend their bubbles? Hell yes.......doesn't mean I should be the one to sacrifice my time that one second more.


Well first we all know that is wrong to do, and with this law or not that is still wrong. Also stopping people doing nothing at all and asking for ID is wrong with or without this law.

But with that said one needs to ask why you get such treatment, and the answer should motivate you to get the illegals out ASAP. I'm from Phoenix too, but I don't live there anymore, and I'm wife's skin color is a little brown, but not Mexican and when we are there everyone speaks Spanish to her or figures she is Mexican and I understand the reason is because of the uncontrolled illegal population that lives there. BTW my wife doesn’t speak a lick of Spanish…hehe



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


I was dead wrong about the ID law in NYC. Sorry about that



posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 12:15 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 





In 1996 in Whren v. United States, amid growing concern over the use of Terry stops as a prophylactic law enforcement tool, the Supreme Court reiterated the objective nature of the inquiry into a law officer's basis for a Terry stop.


source: www.scu.edu...

Racial profiling, aka Terry stops, has been sanctioned by the Supreme Court in 1968 and in 1996. The Patriot Act has taken it even a step further.



posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 12:36 AM
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Honestly who doesnt carry an ID with them at all times. I have a Drivers License that should be good enough for any officer. When I didn't have my Drivers License I went out and got an ID card. I really don't see the big deal everyone should have a way to identify themselves 90% of the time. People are going on and on about race. Well yes it may be profiling but lets be real. The time has come and I am sorry but it has to be done. Like I said if your legal you should have an ID already I really don't see this as a big deal. From what I have seen it has been mostly immigrants who are against the bill well of course they are going to be. Sadly immigrants are of the ones that are illegal how many blacks or whites sneak in from Mexico? Lets be serious cut the political bull and get straight to the point. No ID should not be an excuse you give the cop your DL or ID# if you don't have it on you and it pulls up your name picture address. I don't get how this isnt clean cut. Everytime someone states well if a cop pulls you over.....well you should have a DL then no problem. It is a problem that needs to be fixed come here legally and none of this law will even effect you.

Thanks



posted on Apr, 28 2010 @ 12:59 AM
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There's a lot of "Read the bill!" statements here, so I did, my issue is with section 2, 11-1051, part B:

For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person. The person's immigration status shall be verified with the federal government pursuant to 8 US Code Section 1373(c).


"For Any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official..." What constitutes 'lawful contact'? If I'm walking past a construction site with a lunch pail on my way to or from work and a LEO asks to see my ID which I'm not carrying on me...should I be detained in a cell until ICE can determine my status as an American citizen?

I have no problem with law enforcement enforcing the laws, but don't single anyone out. If illegal immigration is such a problem, as so many claim it to be, make it mandatory to check immigration status for anyone who makes 'lawful contact' with LEO's. If everyone in Arizona is subject to this, it's fair.

Also, Arizona appears to just be making extra laws because the Immigration and Nationality Act Section 287(g) was passed 15 years ago, essentially giving local LEO's the authority to do exactly what this bill does.

This bill, interestingly enough, has shown that immigration issues can completely change ones worldview...those decrying tyranny from the government embracing this bill while those calling for greater government involvement in certain areas saying it's too much.



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