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Arizona HB 1070.How could you not support it?

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posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 09:48 AM
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Summary www.azgovernor.gov...

Actual bill www.azleg.gov.../legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070h.htm



This bill covers many angles, It gives state and local leo the power to arrest/detain/deport illegals as well as possible prison terms for multiple offenses if the person is illegal in the U.S. and is in possession of a weapon or drugs among other things.

It makes it a crime to hire transport,illegals, it criminalizes businesses that hire illegals.
It basically gives the same prosecution powers that the feds have, but to the state leo.
It requires the state attorney general to supply a complaint form to the public to report any illegal hiring and employment of illegals by businesses, and the attorney general is required to investigate.
The attorney general ,shall notify the U.S. federal immigration authorities,local leo enforcement,county prosecuting attorney
Allows Leo to impound vehicles.
There are 3 requirements that must be met before impounding,No insurance, Never licensed to drive in the U.S.,involved in an accident.

C. This act shall be implemented in a manner consistent with federal laws regulating immigration, protecting the civil rights of all persons and respecting the privileges and immunities of United States citizens.

I don't see how anyone could be upset over it. This stuff is already illegal by federal law. What is the qq for?
Is it because the state has the resources to administer the law more effectively than the feds?

This bill covers both ends, it criminalizes the Illegal act of the Illegal alien, and it criminalizes the incentive for them to come and stay illegally.

I think that Arizona deserves to make its own laws, The feds have really been a disgrace to the individual states.

If you disagree please cut paste specific things that you disagree with so i can better understand how you came to the conclusion.
Read the bill tell me what you think, Don't comment off the cuff. This bill is very reasonable.




[edit on 27-4-2010 by TaxpayersUnleashed]

[edit on 27-4-2010 by TaxpayersUnleashed]

[edit on 27-4-2010 by TaxpayersUnleashed]




posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by TaxpayersUnleashed
 


People that are upset over it are clueless as to what it actually says. I wonder if the fed was actually enforcing these laws would these same people have a problem with it then?

It's pretty crazy. CBS nightly news interviewed one of the politicians that voted for the bill he was an immigrant from El Salvador. Bunch of misinformation going around.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 10:43 AM
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Ok...I have a few questions for you, I asked these in another thread but didn't get answers from anyone.


Do you think American citizens who are hispanic in Arizona have a right to feel upset and maybe even scared? They know they now have to carry ID that NO OTHER American citizen has to carry. They have to now PROVE they are a CITIZEN...have you ever had to do that...with threat of detainment or deportation if you couldn't?

Do you think white American citizens in Arizona have any of the above concerns???


Can you honestly now say that white and hispanic AMERICAN CITIZENS (read: I'm not talking about illegal immigrants) are going to be treated as equals now in Arizona???



[edit on 27-4-2010 by OutKast Searcher]



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


All illegals live under the threat of deportation.

If you are here legally and you have all the proper id and documentation.
You don't have anything to worry about.

My family is hispanic. They came over legally all of them.

And reading the law. It's similar to the federal law already in place.

Much ado about nothing.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:13 AM
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The law did not single out any people as far as i can tell other than illegal aliens that have not went through the naturalization process.

Now if you believe that all illegal aliens are brown then yes of coarse you will think the law targets a person based on there race.
Most people will never search there own soul to come to this truth,and if they did they would never admit it ,most folks are shallow people with the delusion of respecting civil rights.

however i really think that people are casting there own generalizations of illegals on how police are going to enforce the laws.

If you read this bill, and compare it to federal law. It is pretty similar.


It just adds local leo to the mix.

Most don't know or care about the problems border states have,they can care less that citizens and immigrants are bearing an unfair burden that illegal aliens are putting on us.


We lent limited powers to the federal government. Does that not imply we can use the powers that we give?



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by grey580
 



All illegals live under the threat of deportation.


I'm not talking about illegals...I'm talking about American citizens.


If you are here legally and you have all the proper id and documentation.
You don't have anything to worry about.


Well that's the thing now isn't it. As American citizens we are not required to carry any identification or documentation. No state, that I know of, requires you to have a state ID...and you don't need a DL unless you want to drive. No one is legally required to keep a copy of their birth certificate in their possession.

I have given many scenarios in past threads...they are usually just ignored. I will just give you one here.

1) A hispanic from California that was born in the United States takes a vacation to Arizona to visit other hispanic (American Citizen) friends. This man doesn't drive so has no DL and never got a state ID because it isn't required. He was born in a hospital in New York city...but doesn't have a current copy of his birth certificate. While in Arizona he is in a car that is stopped for speeding...the police officer decides that a car full of hispanics is reasonable enough suspicion to ask them for all their "papers". They all give their Arizona state ids or DL...but this man has no identification. When asked his address he gives an address in California...police man becomes more suspicious...decides to detain him until this man can prove he is here legally...only problem is for him to do that he would have to go to New York to get a copy of his BC. So he is detained for days? weeks? months? Until immigration can work it out.

Tell me...what crime did this American Citizen commit???



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Do you think American citizens who are hispanic in Arizona have a right to feel upset and maybe even scared? They know they now have to carry ID that NO OTHER American citizen has to carry. They have to now PROVE they are a CITIZEN...have you ever had to do that...with threat of detainment or deportation if you couldn't?


Only if said legal hispanic immigrants present reasonable suspicion to a police officer that they are illegal immigrants.

I suppose in some regard it's a shame Arizona had to take such action, but this is the result of perpetual federal negligence on the matter.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by TaxpayersUnleashed
 



The law did not single out any people as far as i can tell other than illegal aliens that have not went through the naturalization process.

Now if you believe that all illegal aliens are brown then yes of coarse you will think the law targets a person based on there race.
...
Most don't know or care about the problems border states have,they can care less that citizens and immigrants are bearing an unfair burden that illegal aliens are putting on us


And which "border states" would those be...those on the southern border? Hmmm...who are these "illegal aliens" you are talking about??? Illegal caucasians from Canada? Or are you talking about illegal hispanics from Mexico???

You seem to contradict your own statement...you start off saying this isn't about "brown" people...but then admit it is an issue with border states....and since Arizona's only border is with Mexico...you must be talking about illegals coming from Mexico...which yes...are those "brown" people you are speaking of.

I can't decide if you are being willfully ignorant or intentionally deceptive about this.

Tell me this...when this law goes into effect...do you think more hispanics will be asked to prove their status or more caucasians???



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 



Only if said legal hispanic immigrants present reasonable suspicion to a police officer that they are illegal immigrants.



Can you give me an example of what "reasonable suspicion" is???

Because I'm pretty sure the 1st check mark police officers are going to have is "Hispanic? CHECK!". And then what after that? Doesn't speak English? Is that a crime now? What if they are just CHOOSING not to speak English...is that a crime? Is there no freedom to choose which language you want to speak???

Define "reasonable suspicion" for me.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Can you give me an example of what "reasonable suspicion" is???

Because I'm pretty sure the 1st check mark police officers are going to have is "Hispanic? CHECK!". And then what after that? Doesn't speak English? Is that a crime now? What if they are just CHOOSING not to speak English...is that a crime? Is there no freedom to choose which language you want to speak???

Define "reasonable suspicion" for me.


No. Go research the law. Perhaps you'll find that it has nothing to do with your frantic suspicions that being brown and speaking spanish is reason enough. The AZ governor openly denounced profiling at the time of signing this law. Seriously, man... take a deep breath and go check it out for yourself before making huge assumptions.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


By Federal and state law I MUST carry my green card as well as my state ID card everywhere I go or I could face additional scrutiny here in Nevada. I carry my gun everywhere I go and while I do so the cops, should they see te gun and decide to stop me, must see both cards in order to assertain who I am and whether I am eligible for carrying firearms. So far, no problems, no harassment, no "profiling" and we have a HUGE illegal problem here too.

Every state requires that you carry proper ID. If nor you could be subject to fines and other penalties. As a legal Hispanic immigrant, I have NO problems with this law and should I be asked for proof of legal status I will be happy to provide it should I be in AZ or elsewhere.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 12:03 PM
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Jon Stewart said it best.



The bill requires all legal immigrants to have proof of citizenship.

“It’s the same thing free black people had to do in 1863. Lord knows that didn’t leave any residual anger,” said Mr. Stewart.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


No it is not the same thing. Immigration is a foreign policy issue not a domestic issue. I refer you to my post above. Or you could just ignore the Hispanic immigrant in the room in favor of continuing the race baiting.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 



No. Go research the law.


You are the one that made the claim.

Either back up your claim...or in the future refrain from making a claim that you can't provide any facts for.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 



By Federal and state law I MUST carry my green card as well as my state ID card everywhere I go or I could face additional scrutiny here in Nevada.


Are you a United States Citizen or a Legal Resident? If you are a United States citizen...you no longer need your greencard.

As I am talking about American Citizens...if you are not a citizen...I am not talking about your situation.

You are the second person in this thread to try to derail what I am speaking of...so I'll say it again. I am talking about AMERICAN CITIZENS. Not illegal immigrants and not Legal residents that require a greencard.


I carry my gun everywhere I go and while I do so the cops, should they see te gun and decide to stop me, must see both cards in order to assertain who I am and whether I am eligible for carrying firearms.


Again...this is an entirely different issue...has nothing to do with what I am speaking of.


Every state requires that you carry proper ID. If nor you could be subject to fines and other penalties.


This is just simply false. Go find me a state law in every state that shows that you need to carry any ID at all. I know in my state

I will be checking back in to see if you can provide that...remember...YOU made that claim...so please back it up with sources.


Here...look at Nevada's "stop and identify" law.

Source


NRS 171.123 Temporary detention by peace officer of person suspected of criminal behavior or of violating conditions of parole or probation: Limitations.

1. Any peace officer may detain any person whom the officer encounters under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime.

2. Any peace officer may detain any person the officer encounters under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has violated or is violating the conditions of the person’s parole or probation.

3. The officer may detain the person pursuant to this section only to ascertain the person’s identity and the suspicious circumstances surrounding the person’s presence abroad. Any person so detained shall identify himself or herself, but may not be compelled to answer any other inquiry of any peace officer.

4. A person must not be detained longer than is reasonably necessary to effect the purposes of this section, and in no event longer than 60 minutes. The detention must not extend beyond the place or the immediate vicinity of the place where the detention was first effected, unless the person is arrested.


The relevant part is number 3...."Any person so detained shall identify himself or herself, but may not be compelled to answer any other inquiry of any peace officer." Do you see ANYWHERE in there that they must provide a valid document...no. All you are required to do under the law (in any state that has stop and identify...only 24 have this law) is to state your NAME...and in some cases your address. THAT IS IT....nothing more. And that is ONLY in the 24 states that have "stop and identify" laws...the other 26...you don't have to even tell the officer your name...you don't have to speak to him at all.


So please...tell me where you get that you are REQUIRED to carry ID on you in every state???



Or you could just ignore the Hispanic immigrant in the room in favor of continuing the race baiting.


You being a hispanic immigrant doesn't give you any more credibility than anyone else. You have your personal opinion on how you feel about his law...that is it. You don't get to have extra say because of your ethnicity and legal status. That is how things work in the United States...we all have a voice.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by OutKast Searcher]

[edit on 27-4-2010 by OutKast Searcher]



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


No ID in the state of Nevada could get you detainedwhile they assertain your actual identity. I'm not yet a citizen, so I am required to carry ID. Also, the issue of having a visible firearms provides reasonable suspicion for a police officer to stop me.

I'm not derailing I'm discussing. If you don't like someone disagreeing with you find another website that conforms to all of your stances.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Being a Hispanic immigrant does not make my opinion more valid but consider the fact that people who are not immigrants are throwing the race card out there like they own it. It is unfair to do so and Jon Stewart calling it similar to the plight of Black citizens in the 1860s is wrong and disingenous. I'm pointing it out. Whats wrong with a Hispanic immigrant pointing out that one does not feel discriminated against? Or would it only be more valid if I were in here proclaiming how racist everyone is?

Can't have it both ways.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by projectvxn]



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 



No ID in the state of Nevada could get you detainedwhile they assertain your actual identity.


You know what...I made a mistake...the above law was Nevada's stop and identify laws. I'll edit my post.

So you are wrong...you simply have to state your name...and that is only under suspicion of a crime.


Also, the issue of having a visible firearms provides reasonable suspicion for a police officer to stop me.


In your case...you are carrying a gun which has it's own laws and regulations tied to it...it has nothing to do with what is currently being discussed.


I'm not derailing I'm discussing. If you don't like someone disagreeing with you find another website that conforms to all of your stances.


I'm talking about hispanic American Citizens just minding their own business.

You are talking about legal immigrants carrying a gun...and seem to think that because legal immigranst that are carrying a gun in Nevada are required to show ID and proof of legal status...then that somehow means that hispanic American citizens in Arizona should have no problem always carrying around documents to show they are citizens.

Apples and Oranges...hence my claim of derailment because it has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Actually the point I'm trying to make is that if a peace officer asks you for ID you hve to show it. If you're a citizen you have ID, if you're illegal you don't. It seems pretty cut and dry to me.

How is this racist? Is it because a White governor signed it into law, or is it te FACT that most illegals in this country are Hispanic.

I wish you and I could have this conversation in person. I think it would be more fun that way and we may actually be able to understand each other better.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 



Whats wrong with a Hispanic immigrant pointing out that one does not feel discriminated against?


It isn't...but your reply seems to imply that BH should listen to you BECAUSE you are a hispanic immigrant rather than listening to Jon Stewart.

You directed BH to refer to your post...OR just ignore the "hispanic immigrant" and continue to race bait. If that isn't implying that your opinion is more valid because of your "hispanic immigrant" status...then I guess I just don't understand you specifically stating that you are a "hispanic immigrant".

He has a valid point...I see it...BH sees it. If you don't think he has a valid point...then that is fine...that is your opinion...but it isn't worth more than anyone elses.

Why specifically state that you are a hispanic immigrant if you aren't trying to use that to give more weight to your argument??? Was there another reason?




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