Found! Noah's Ark - 4000m Up Mt Ararat

Originally posted by Gabo-
reply to post by loner007

 

I am not an expert, but the wood in these pictures looks too young to be 4800 years old. Is anyone better informed on the subject? Also i found this article that suggests that there is not enough water on earth to place a boat on that mountain, I don't know how they came up with this conclusion but it is something to consider.

cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com...

It doesn't matter how old the wood is. It was never built of wood, and was not a boat. Why aren't all boats called arks? Think ARCH...

Gopher Wood has no geological record and is a word used one time and never again in the bible. It was never gopher, but Kopher which means STONE.....LIMESTONE as in the blocks the pyramids are made of because the pyramid(s) is the ARC....not a boat.

Gopher wood or gopherwood is a term used once in the Bible, for the substance from which Noah's ark was built. Gen 6:14 states that Noah was to build the Ark of גפר, gofer, more commonly gopher wood, a word not otherwise known in the Bible or in Hebrew.

Its identity has not been established with certainty. Older English translations, including the King James Version (17th century), simply leave it untranslated.
[edit] Question over identity

The Greek Septuagint (3rd–1st centuries BC) translated it as xylon tetragonon, "squared timber".[1] Similarly, the Latin Vulgate (5th century AD) rendered it as lignis levigatis (lævigatis, in the Clementine Vulgate), "smoothed (possibly planed) wood".

The Jewish Encyclopedia believes it was most likely a translation of the Babylonian "gushure i÷ erini" (cedar-beams), or the Assyrian "giparu" (reed).[2]

Many modern English translations tend to favour cypress (although otherwise the word for "cypress" in Biblical Hebrew is brosh). This was espoused (among others) by Adam Clarke, a Methodist theologian famous for his commentary on the Bible: Clarke cited the resemblance between Greek word for cypress, kuparisson and the Hebrew word gophar.

Other suggestions include pine, cedar, fir, ebony, wicker, juniper, acacia, boxwood, slimed bulrushes and resinous wood, and even American trees such as Cladrastis kentukea (American yellowwood), although the latter did not exist in the region the ark was supposedly built.

Others, noting the physical similarity between the Hebrew letters g and k, suggest that the word may actually be kopher, the Hebrew word meaning "pitch"; thus kopher wood would be pitched wood. Recent suggestions have included a lamination process (to strengthen the Ark), or a now-lost type of tree, but there is no consensus.[3]

Cypress Pine late 12c., from O.Fr. cipres, from L. cyparissus, from Gk. kyparissos, from an unknown pre-Greek Mediterranean language. Perhaps related to Heb. gopher, name of the tree whose wood was used to make the ark (Gen. vi.14).[/qoute]

It would be very cool if something true and good comes of this.

I bet we will never see this on CNN any time soon. Besides, even if this isn't the real deal, I could care less. The Bible says there was a Noah, an Ark, and a world flood, that is all the proof I need.
What we really should be discussing is WHY God sent the great flood to kill all man-kind, and will he kill all man-kind again? Are you ready?

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Dallas1611]

Not that I necessarily believe the Project Blue Beam stuff, but when the mainstream media plug rubbish stories like this one, it makes me wonder.

"The first step in the NASA Blue Beam Project concerns the breakdown [re-evaluation] of all archaeological knowledge. It deals with the set-up, with artificially created earthquakes at certain precise locations on the planet, and of supposedly new discoveries which will finally explain to all people the "error" of all fundamental religious doctrines."

The actual biblical tale is most likely an exaggerated story. However, the base for the story is likely real. With so many different peoples having a similar story, I would be inclined to believe there is SOME truth to the story of Noah.

I think one needs to keep their mind open in regards to the details in the bible, for example the two by two story...

Try to imagine, Noah taking two of each animal that was available to him, or perhaps just two by two domesticated or farm animals.

Now imagine a major regional flood. For one thing, how could anyone even know the true extent of the flood. Noah would more than likely assume it was the entire world, not like he could whip out the laptop hop on ATS and find out if th eflood had reached his American brothers.

Personally I think the bible needs to be a tempered read. Perhaps some of the words of god are as written and still others modified, altered, blanks filled in, and some interpretation left to the authors.

Does not mean the bible is a fabrication, nor does it mean it all needs to be taken word for word in a literal sense.

Most people tend to exaggerate when they tell a story.

I believe there was a "Noah", who experienced an incredible flood and survived with the help of spiritual guidance. Regardless this is a great find even if it is not the ark

Originally posted by daggyz
So far from what I've read everyone is debunking everything else related to religion. Even if this discovery was shown to be the actual ark, people would still not believe that the Bible is an accurate record of history. For years many have debunked the possibility of a flood so recent and the existence of an ark. If this is it (and it seems it is?) it will make very little difference to those who don't want to believe it because believing it means the Bible is true and if it's true it means we are accountable to God as it says. And if we don't 'want' to be accountable then we find other things to critisize or debunk to make us feel better in our unbelief - like evolution (which actually requires more faith than one believing in God).

Apart from that, to find a 4000-6000 year old wooden structure still intact is amazing. You wonder what else lies under the ice caps and mountain tops yet to be revealed as we go through a short natural warming period.

Even if this was Noah's Ark and somehow provided irrefutable evidence that God existed, I would end up siding with Satan. All the bible tells is stories of the evil deeds God commits against man for not kissing his poor little ass. Satan has never demanded absolute worship for fear of death like God had. Satan went so far as to provide us the gift of knowledge, which God punished us for taking despite being created in a naive state of mind, not knowing right from wrong instinctively. Part of that punishment included never being able to partake from the tree of life which would have given us physical immortality. So yea, Satan FTW. If God is real, the little bastard is getting a nuke shove up his almighty ass.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

 

The boat was not found in Khufu's pyramid. The flood in Mayan mythology is from the Popul Vuh and not a water flood.

In Maya mythology as expressed in the Popol Vuh the creator gods attempted to create creatures who would worship them three times before finally succeeding in creating a race of humans that would pay proper homage to their creatores. The three previous creations were destroyed. The third race of humans carved from wood were destroyed by a flood, mauled by wild animals and smashed by their own tools and utensils. Maya flood myths recorded by Diego de Landa and in the Chilam Balam of Chumayel holds that the only survivors of the flood were the four Bacabs who took their places as upholders of the four corners of the sky.

The four corners that reach to the sky are a pyramid.

The result is a spectacular cedar-wood boat 43.6m (143') long, its timbers held together by ropes. It is not clear how the boat was made water-tight. Early theories that soaking in water caused the wood to swell and thus become water-tight did not prove effective with the modern reconstruction "Horizon of Min" based on boats found in the Wadi Gawasis excavation and the reconstructers had recourse to traditional fibre caulking reinforced by beeswax. There is no sign of such measures on the Khufu boat, which may simply mean that the boat was never floated. The name "Djedefre", Khufu's son and successor, is found on some of the slabs of stone that sealed the pit, indicating that the boat was put there by Khufu's son.[/qoute]

Peace

Originally posted by PowerSlave
The actual biblical tale is most likely an exaggerated story. However, the base for the story is likely real. With so many different peoples having a similar story, I would be inclined to believe there is SOME truth to the story of Noah.

I think one needs to keep their mind open in regards to the details in the bible, for example the two by two story...

Try to imagine, Noah taking two of each animal that was available to him, or perhaps just two by two domesticated or farm animals.

Now imagine a major regional flood. For one thing, how could anyone even know the true extent of the flood. Noah would more than likely assume it was the entire world, not like he could whip out the laptop hop on ATS and find out if th eflood had reached his American brothers.

Personally I think the bible needs to be a tempered read. Perhaps some of the words of god are as written and still others modified, altered, blanks filled in, and some interpretation left to the authors.

Does not mean the bible is a fabrication, nor does it mean it all needs to be taken word for word in a literal sense.

Most people tend to exaggerate when they tell a story.

I believe there was a "Noah", who experienced an incredible flood and survived with the help of spiritual guidance. Regardless this is a great find even if it is not the ark

First, the number of animals did not exceed 400. 7 pairs of clean and 2 of unclean.

Second, why does every one assume the animals were adults?

Third Noah is not a man, Noah is an action. "Noah found grace in the eyes of the lord"....Noah means rest. REST found grace in the eyes of the lord....on the 7th day god rested or Noahed...

Fourth, no name in the bible is a person as all of the names have a deeper meaning which is not hidden. For example you might be George. George means husbandman or LORD. This is why it is said every time IN THE NAME.

Peace

Originally posted by SmokeytheHair
Lol... Why are they claiming to have found a story book characters boat?? Don't they know it's not real?

Tsk. Tsk. Tsk.
When will people ever learn?

You don't know that for sure, my friend. I have a feeling that atheists are discounting a very large amount of things from religion that might be scientifically true. The more they do that, the more useless they will look in the future when everything comes to light. Which is sad, because they have some good points.

It is unfortunate that the atheist movement has degraded into an emotional, closed-minded witch hunt so fast. We really need a movement right now that is based on facts and science rather than blind obedience and belief.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by darkbake]

[edit on 27-4-2010 by darkbake]

Funny that they use carbon dating while many Christians will tell you how inaccurate carbon dating is. Some will even say the world is only 2000 years old.

Also, 40 days and nights is a long time without food. How do you keep them animals from eathing each other? I don't see how we could have rabbits today if there were only two on that boat and also two wolves, two bears, two lions, etc.

Reply to post by adriantba

Just to clarify there are some of us who realize that these stories have been passed down for so long that there have to be some errors or mistranslations, exaggerations, etc. So did noah track down every animal in the world? Well that depends on your definition of "world". For example, let`s say I have a family member in the hospital- or better yet let`s say I have a friend serving 25 to life in prison. If you were to ask her/him, they would tell you that their whole world comsists of that prison. Well, only the areas of the prison they are allowed to go to, anyway. Nowadays our world is more connected. I can find detailed maps of most of the worlds land masses, with names, population, ethnicities, local history, area (square miles), elevation, politics, major events/disasters, etc., etc., etc.. And so we can feel confident in knowing how to define what our world consists of. In ancient history, such knowledge was hard to come by unless it pertained to your own immediate area. Much of it was unknown or known by very few and kept secret. Some might be learned by traveling or listening to those who travel to your area, but then it becomes hearsay until you confirm it yourself. My point is, the 5world was a smaller place back then.
Yes, there are some "Christians" who still hold that everything happened literally and can be understood using today`s perspectives on the world we live in. I tend to take what I consider to be a more reasonable perspective. And while I don`t agree with most or a lot of his more interesting theories, I heard him say something on the "Ancient Aliens" series that describes me. He said this about his wild beliefs about aliens and how it affected his religious beliefs: "I never lost my god." This is true for me even though my beliefs are so different from common christianity, or "organized religion/christianity", that most who call themselves "christians" would probably say that I`m not a "real" christian. In fact, a lot of them would say I am evil or satanic because IO don`t listen to my pastor every sunday like a robot who does not question his master`s orders and blindly obeys every command. Like I said, I use reason. And it stands to reason that we don`t understand everything. Yet I see so-called christians going around making all these declarations about who`s going to hell and what you have to do in order to get into heaven. You might notice that I type words like god or heaven or hell without capitalizing them...
-cntnd nxt pst-


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

I don't know, but 4000 year old wood 13k feet up is interesting. Also it is hard to debunk that 4k to 5k years ago the earth underwent some big changes, and whether you believe in the great flood or not that story was told across many civilizations outside the bible and the sheer physical evidence is too great to not think the earth looked rather differently before then.

reply to post by darkbake

rather than blind obedience and belief.

Like religion?

Seriously though... Atheists hold no belief in ALL deities, not just the beloved brand spanking new Judaic-Christian God. We also don't believe in the veracity of much older gods worshiped thousands of year before the invented monotheistic God.

You talk about scientific basis and such, and personally I wouldn't doubt the scientific basis of certain aspects of the bible or the historicity of certain stories in the bible. I personally do think something like the tower of babel could have possibly existed, or that the weakly built walls of Jerusalem could have fallen over by the marching and trumpeting armies. Yet I don't believe Jesus walked on water or that Moses waved a magic stick and parted the red sea. Chris Angel walked on water, he must be teh god!

I saw a video on this place once, and about the Ark being there possibly...


Makes sense, and if the ship is real, we will find it if any remains.... I hope its real. I love this type of stuff!

Originally posted by Xtrozero
I don't know, but 4000 year old wood 13k feet up is interesting. Also it is hard to debunk that 4k to 5k years ago the earth underwent some big changes, and whether you believe in the great flood or not that story was told across many civilizations outside the bible and the sheer physical evidence is too great to not think the earth looked rather differently before then.

Low oxygen and cold temperatures. Nor does the site the OP links to provide any visual evidence that this wooden structure is a boat. Still, even with the low oxygen and cold temperatures, there would NOT be FRESH hay existing in the structure. It screams of hoax, especially with the fresh brand spanking newly harvested hay. That and after over 4,000 years the floor planks would still have oxidized and deteriorated enough to be brittle to a point where one shouldn't be able walk and bang on as if 'proving' it's made of wood.

Originally posted by darkbake

Originally posted by SmokeytheHair
Lol... Why are they claiming to have found a story book characters boat?? Don't they know it's not real?

Tsk. Tsk. Tsk.
When will people ever learn?

You don't know that for sure, my friend. I have a feeling that atheists are discounting a very large amount of things from religion that might be scientifically true. The more they do that, the more useless they will look in the future when everything comes to light. Which is sad, because they have some good points.

It is unfortunate that the atheist movement has degraded into an emotional, closed-minded witch hunt so fast. We really need a movement right now that is based on facts and science rather than blind obedience and belief.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by darkbake]

[edit on 27-4-2010 by darkbake]

True things require a living witness or they can not be validated and are just as much myth as anything else. Only 3 to 4 generations exist with each other at any given time. All it takes is 2 generations to agree on a story and spin it to a third.

History, just like the future is what we make of it...they are one in the same.

I think the negative comments about the Chinese finding the Ark are more discriminatory than actually based on any substantial fact. The anti religion comments are insulting to billions of people. I guess there all just delusional. The video showing that the Ark was previously discovered shows basically nothing but a distant picture and iron deposits. I don't know where the Chinese located this structure but they definitely found substantial artifacts. We are talking about a structure you can walk into, not some piece of debris you can hold in one hand. Wow is all I got to say. I can only hope the messenger (discoverers) are not discounted because they are Chinese. I would like to think we are beyond this type of BS.

Originally posted by Angus123

If the earth were covered in that much water... enough to submerge even Mt. Everest... the air would have been so humid that you would drown in seconds just from breathing.
Talk about a crappy way to die!

Well other people survived so it is hard to explain that too. With that said I see truth in the story even though the truth was written with a limited view of the world upheaval. One thing that is interesting I read a while back was that the ancient towns leading away from Mount Ararat are named after the lineage of Noah.

Mass extinction of many species in a very short period of time, Cities left abandon high in the mountains of South America that started closer to sea level when they were first built. Boulders across the world moved by massive surges of water, and so on shows that a really big event(s) happened that I’m sure the writers of the great flood were trying to put down in words.




[edit on 27-4-2010 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by g146541


Here....let's just make this a little simpler, for us Americans that don't understand meters. 4000 meters = 13,126 ft, give or take a few decimal points. 13,000 feet. Over 2 miles of height. Now tell me how it is possible even with plate tectonics and every geological explanation, that 13,000 ft of water washed up on Mt. Ararat and settled a wooden ship that housed animals. This is simply impossible on the time scale. No trench in the ocean, no Black Sea fissure, nothing would remove that much water in 4,800 years to this date. You just don't have water rain down for XX amount of days and then disappear XX amount of days later on this massive of a scale. To put that much water, just in one location, would take milleni (plural of milleniums) to take place. Polar caps melting would maybe cause the ocean's sea levels to rise 100 meters...300 feet, like is theorized at the end of the last Ice Age, but we are talking of factor of 40 here, which just isn't scientifically possible.

1 cubic foot = 7.48 gallons. 1 acre foot = 325,851 gallons. Does anyone see where I'm trying to go with this. There is physically no way possible for water to reach that level, without other places, on the other side of the globe having at least a fraction of that much water present. And geologically speaking, there is no proof that that much water was ever present, as in there is no massive water erosion which correlates with 4800 years ago anywhere on the face of this earth. There is also no evidence that Mt. Ararat has suddenly risen in elevation in the last 4800 years. Nothing on this earth has done anything like that in its history on such a short timeline. That would mean that Egypt was under at least 13,000ft of water during its Dynasty.

Originally posted by sirnex
Low oxygen and cold temperatures. Nor does the site the OP links to provide any visual evidence that this wooden structure is a boat. Still, even with the low oxygen and cold temperatures, there would NOT be FRESH hay existing in the structure. It screams of hoax, especially with the fresh brand spanking newly harvested hay. That and after over 4,000 years the floor planks would still have oxidized and deteriorated enough to be brittle to a point where one shouldn't be able walk and bang on as if 'proving' it's made of wood.

True and I said it was interesting only...hehe. With the wave of ice being melted and glaciers retreating if that wood was embedded in ice all that time it would still be in pretty good shape.