Found! Noah's Ark - 4000m Up Mt Ararat

Why is there zero evidence for a global flood?

Another news article showing this "find" to be just another hoax.

Ex-Colleague: Expedition Faked Noah's Ark Find

"If the world wants to think this is a wonderful discovery, that's fine," Randall Price, an archaeologist who in 2008 was working with the Chinese-led evangelical team, told The Christian Science Monitor. "My problem is that, in the end, proper analysis may show this to be a hoax and negatively reflect how gullible Christians can be."

Price says that those photos of the supposed ark include cobwebs in the corners of the structure's rafters, "something just not possible in these conditions."

And in a story with strong parallels to the latest hoax, a French explorer named Fernand Navarra claimed to have found a wooden beam from the ark on Ararat in 1955. Navarra's guide, however, later said the explorer had hauled the 5-foot-long plank up the mountain with him.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

That is not true. The myths and tales of floods do not offer an explanation. If you think they do offer one example.

No, my point is the story is all over the world from many cultures, so though the stories do not give facts as to what happened just the fact that these stories come from all four corners of the world suggest a rather big event happened. The physical evidence is all over the earth in many places... Some of my prior posts briefly talked about some of them.

Stories from across the world do not mean that they are true.
Stories from across the world do not mean they are talking about the same event or events.

They are just stories.

I asked for 1 example and received no examples.

Originally posted by stereologist
Stories from across the world do not mean that they are true.
Stories from across the world do not mean they are talking about the same event or events.

They are just stories.

I asked for 1 example and received no examples.

What examples are you looking for? Examples of stories, examples of facts within stories, or physical anomalies on earth?

So are you saying those stories/history that are similar events while independently created means nothing?

Originally posted by dragnet53

geological record? LOL

Is it like the record keeping on global warming?

Nope, it's observable. Go outside and look at the rocks. Some geological knowledge helps, obviously.
There is NO record of a global flood.

reply to post by Xtrozero


You have it right. These are stories. They are not related. They have little in common. There are disasters with water, with fire, with ground shaking, with storms. That about covers it. Hardly any coincidence that there are water stories.

As far as the real world goes there is no evidence of a global inundation.

Originally posted by stereologist
As far as the real world goes there is no evidence of a global inundation.

To narrow it down so I don't spend a long time on this, what would you consider as physical evidence? Give me a few examples of what you might be looking for and maybe I can fill in the blanks.

I am not the one making the claim that a worldwide flood hit the earth. You did. You made the following.

The physical evidence is all over the earth in many places... Some of my prior posts briefly talked about some of them.

If you believe that to be the case then put forward any evidence that you think would support such a claim. I didn't ask for 10 items I asked for 1.

Originally posted by stereologist
If you believe that to be the case then put forward any evidence that you think would support such a claim. I didn't ask for 10 items I asked for 1.

Well I don't plan on writing a dissertation on it for your pleasure since it is highly likely that anything I provide would not be enough for you. A few posts back I gave examples, so since you failed to read them I’ll use my old posts to help answer your question.

Though I'm not a true believer in a Noah like ark 13k feet up on a mountain, I would entertain the thought of some massive waves that could push wood rather high up. Kind of like whale bones found 1300 feet above sea level in the middle of America, or massive graves of bones wedge in fissures in many places that are very high up with many extinct species mixed with human evidence. Also the evidence of erratic boulders that were moved in all directions, over long distances from their source, and in many cases UPHILL into mountains around the world. To do this some form of great energy was needed that glaciers were not the cause. All of this is suggesting that massive waves of water affected the planet in recent history…like what the human race would call the “great flood” or other like names around the world seen in historical stories from many independent cultures.

Now what could cause massive waves? Upheaval of land could easily create waves miles high. Below is a post of mine about Tiahuanacu up in the Andes that puts forth evidence that the area was much lower when that city was originally created. In any case with a massive worldwide disaster the only evidence left would be in the land and creatures affected by it, and something big happened in our recent past that truely affected both on a… dare it say it biblical levels…


post by Xtrozero

reply to post by Xtrozero


Thanks for the post Xtrozero. You've written some great things here:
1. inland whale fossils
2. large so-called bone yards
3. Erratics

Inland whale fossils have been found in places where the land has uplifted since the time the whales were alive. Such areas are found in Egypt where important transitional forms were found in what was a shallow sea. In t he US there have been whales found that were in seas before the land isostatically rebound after the glaciers receded. The Charlotte whale of Vermont is a prime example. Finding whales skeletons inland is not a surprise since the whales of Egypt are from a 40 million year old deposit. The Vermont whale is about 11,000 years old. Two deposits and 2 different reasons for the whales being found where they were.

The bone yards are interesting places since they appear where material that fossilized was accumulated, or where the conditions were good for fossilization to take place. A great example of this is the Morrison formation. It has turned up a number of excellent fossil beds included the one at Dinosaur NM and the one at Thermopolis, WY. From some of the fossil bed descriptions they make it sound as if intact skeletons are wrapped around each other. This is not the case. These deposits are jumbled messes as can be seen in the Dinosaur rock face that has been exposed to reveal the underlying bones. A few places do have intact skeletons. These are usually seen to be animals trapped at different times such as the Mammoth Springs site in SD. One place where the animals appear to have died in a single incident is the bison deposit in western Nebraska. That site has a hundred animals that appear to have died in a single incident.

What I am not aware of is:
1. Any evidence for "many extinct species mixed with human evidence". I'd like to learn where this place is located.
2. Erratics that can be traced back to a position uphill from their source.

Suppose that there was a flood. Wouldn't you expect to see something more like the terrain of Texas. A large section of that are was inundated by a tsunami. The event appears to be related to the Chicxulub crater.

Seismic Images Show Dinosaur-Killing Meteor Made Bigger Splash

Mechanisms that have been proposed to link the asteroid impact to extinctions include: a few hours of intense heat immediately following the impact caused by ejected material falling back through the atmosphere, aerosol clouds blocking out sunlight and killing off plants followed by a domino effect of plant eaters and eaters of plant eaters, global firestorms, unprecedented earthquakes, and megatsunami waves hundreds of meters tall.

Although this event is big and had big waves it predates the Egypt whales and follows the dinosaur bone yards.

Looking forward to learning more about the issues I am not aware of. Thanks.

Originally posted by saabster5
The difficult thing for me to wrap my tiny insignificant brain around is where did the water go?

The great, cosmic Shop-Vac.

I don't buy the Ark story on a global scale but, regardless, this is a very cool find and my curiosity is piqued.

Hopefully though, next time they "discover" the Ark, they'll find it somewhere other than Mt. Ararat. I'm getting tired of that same old location.

reply to post by stereologist




Alaska has some interesting layers of animals and trees. Mixed in this mess is smashed up rooted trees in the millions, and enormous amount of extinct animal bones such as mammoth, mastodon, super-bison and horse. This paints a picture of millions of animals were torn from limb to limb and smashed to death mixed in with millions of smashed and uprooted trees. Yuma point of our not to ancient ancestors have also been found within these recent extinctions.

Shifting around to Siberia we see similar massive extinctions of mammoth, elephants and rhinoceroses. We are talking 10s of millions of dead animals with their bones piled up even creating islands of bone and sand and where the Ivory Islands got their name from. A frozen world hit by giant waves sweeping across the lands and then retreating leaving millions stacked on millions of huge dead animals with many freezing quickly to even preserving many of them for 1000s of years. This area has no trees today, and the reason is because something massive wiped them all out much in the way as is seen in the layers in Alaska. A treeless area with little life today that not too long ago had great forests with millions of very large beasts living there. Kind of reminds me of your Texas example...

So here were continental catastrophes in the not too distant past that even Darwin found as insoluble problems when his theories were applied.

Erratic boulders were broken off from the Alps and carried to the Jura Mountains to the west lifted to an elevation of 2000 feet above Lake Geneva. Some of them are thousands of cubic feet in size and they were move across the lake and lifted to the height were they rest now. Something other than glaciers moved these huge stones a long way….maybe water…lots of it.

Huge Erratic boulders were moved from Norway across the North Sea to the British Isles, Scandinavia boulders thickly cover Germany, and Boulders were moved from Norway to high up in the German Harz Mountains. From Finland stone blocks were moved to Poland over the Carpathians, also to Moscow and other places. Canada spread erratic boulders all over the US up over mountains, through valleys, on coastal plains…all over the place that glaciers could not do.


There are many more examples of extinctions and errata across much of the world.


Cheers


[edit on 2-5-2010 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by Xtrozero
reply to post by stereologist

 

Alaska has some interesting layers of animals and trees. Mixed in this mess is smashed up rooted trees in the millions, and enormous amount of extinct animal bones such as mammoth, mastodon, super-bison and horse. This paints a picture of millions of animals were torn from limb to limb and smashed to death mixed in with millions of smashed and uprooted trees. Yuma point of our not to ancient ancestors have also been found within these recent extinctions.

Shifting around to Siberia we see similar massive extinctions of mammoth, elephants and rhinoceroses. We are talking 10s of millions of dead animals with their bones piled up even creating islands of bone and sand and where the Ivory Islands got their name from. A frozen world hit by giant waves sweeping across the lands and then retreating leaving millions stacked on millions of huge dead animals with many freezing quickly to even preserving many of them for 1000s of years. This area has no trees today, and the reason is because something massive wiped them all out much in the way as is seen in the layers in Alaska. A treeless area with little life today that not too long ago had great forests with millions of very large beasts living there. Kind of reminds me of your Texas example...

So here were continental catastrophes in the not too distant past that even Darwin found as insoluble problems when his theories were applied.

Erratic boulders were broken off from the Alps and carried to the Jura Mountains to the west lifted to an elevation of 2000 feet above Lake Geneva. Some of them are thousands of cubic feet in size and they were move across the lake and lifted to the height were they rest now. Something other than glaciers moved these huge stones a long way….maybe water…lots of it.

Huge Erratic boulders were moved from Norway across the North Sea to the British Isles, Scandinavia boulders thickly cover Germany, and Boulders were moved from Norway to high up in the German Harz Mountains. From Finland stone blocks were moved to Poland over the Carpathians, also to Moscow and other places. Canada spread erratic boulders all over the US up over mountains, through valleys, on coastal plains…all over the place that glaciers could not do.


There are many more examples of extinctions and errata across much of the world.


Cheers


[edit on 2-5-2010 by Xtrozero]

Where did the water come from? Where did it go?

Xtrozero is suggesting that there is no extra water, rather there are large waves. In one case we know that this happened.



[edit on 2-5-2010 by stereologist]

The only thing sadder than the fact that there is more than one thread about this is this little tale I need to relate.

In 1991, a good friend of the family who had been "saved" or born again wanted to bring me to Jesus. He and his mother would shower me with literature and stories and videos. It was interesting. One of the things they used to try to help me come to their side was this story about Noah's Ark being found up in Mt. Arrarat. It sure was interesting. It was also still 1991.

So now all I can wonder is why do they keep finding this same boat in the same place "for the first time" over and over and over again but have not been able to prove it yet?

The claims of things being found is easy to do. Someone just says they found something. If you find a dime it's nothing. You find Noah's ark and it gets splashed and sensationalized on newspapers across the globe regardless of the merits of the claim.

Some of the claims are in different places. The bible refers to the mountain range not a particular peak. Even if it had referred to a particular peak that doesn't mean we could identify the named peak today.

Now the claims of the find have been tarnished by claims of planting the evidence.

Originally posted by A-E-I-Owned-You

Where did the water come from? Where did it go?

I'm suggesting that we had some rather massive land mass movements that basically pushed oceans up or down creating huge miles high waves that washed across very vast land areas, and one such case was not too far in our past, wiping out many animals to extinction, changing the landscape of plant life over wide areas, and almost wiping even us off the planet that has led to historical stories from many cultures about it all.

Water is one theory, but something big has happen...

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by Xtrozero


How about a little more of a hint on this bone yard claim such as a site name. If such a place exists, then it has a name other than a place somewhere in Alaska. I hope you are not referring to one of Velikovsky's fanciful ideas.

When we get to the Ivory Islands we see that there are not tens of millions of animals deposited there. We also see that the deposits cover about 200,000 years of time.

Ivory Islands - wikipedia

accumulated over a period of some 200,000 years. Their "wonderful state of preservation" is the result of them having been frozen in permafrost since their burial.

It's very different from the Texas example. In fact, the Texas area was a subtropical area. The area you pointed to was a tundra zone with permafrost that preserved the dead animals. There were no big forests. Permafrost restricts the growth of roots and limits the minerals.

Darwinism does not apply here. To suggest that is quite wrong. Darwinism is a theory dealing with the diversity of life and the relationship between species. It is a theory to explain the fact of evolution.

I looked into the erratics. No where can I find any statements supporting that erratics are found higher than their source. The fact that erratics have move great distances is common knowledge. Minerals brought in from the Canadian shield dropped real diamonds in the moraines of Michigan and other states. It took 100 years to backtrack these diamonds to their source. Diamond mining is actively being done at the source of these once enigmatic diamonds from the moraines in the US.

The extent of continental glaciation and the paths of the glaciers is well established and well known. To suggest that these continental glaciers did not exist or could not move is based on what?

reply to post by Xtrozero


Land mass movements are really impossible to account for the type of wave you mention. The largest land mass movement we know of due to a quake is the 1964 Alaska quake which was a 9.2. A land mass movement is not going to be quiet. What are you suggesting, a 100 quake or something of that order?

1755 Great Portugal quake 9.0
2004 Indian Ocean tsunami 9.1