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KATYN 2. Polish opposition party demands international investigation into plane crash

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posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 09:38 AM
reply to post by WWJFKD

Anyone else notice that another man with the name Kaczynski has odd circumstances surrounding them?

I am referring to Lech Kaczynski, from this article, and a man born to second generation Polish-American's, Theodore Kaczynski.

Considering they were born 7 years apart and in two different countries but possibly related?

If the plane carrying the President of Poland goes down with a man willing to stand up against Communism is odd, then what exactly are the statistics of the same name and alleged sabotage to the plane carrying him and someone potentially connected through familial ties with the Unabomber?

Quote from : Wikipedia : 2010 Polish Air Force Tu-154 Crash

The 2010 Polish Air Force Tu-154 crash happened on 10 April 2010, when a Tupolev Tu-154M aircraft of the Polish Air Force crashed near the city of Smolensk, Russia, killing all 96 people aboard.

These include the Polish president Lech Kaczyński and his wife, the chief of the Polish General Staff and other senior Polish military officers, the president of the National Bank of Poland, Poland's deputy foreign minister, Polish government officials, 12 members of the Polish parliament, senior members of the Polish clergy, and relatives of victims of the Katyn massacre.

They were en route from Warsaw to attend an event marking the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre.

The site of the Katyn massacre is approximately 19 kilometres (12 mi) west of Smolensk.

The cause of the crash is under investigation.

According to preliminary reports, the pilot attempted to land at Smolensk North Airport, a recently decommissioned former military airbase, in thick fog that reduced visibility to about 500 metres (1,600 ft).

The plane was too low as it approached the runway.

It struck trees in the fog, turned upside down, and fell to the ground 200 metres (660 ft) before the airfield in a wooded area, where it broke into pieces.

Considering that Lech Kaczynski was about to honor victims of the Katyn Massacre, an event which happened during WWII via the Soviet N.V.K.D., their Secret Police, this sure is fishy if you ask me.

Quote from : Wikipedia : N.K.V.D.

The People's Commissariat for Internal Affairs (Russian: Народный Комиссариат Внутренних Дел Narodnyy Komissariat Vnutrennikh Del), abbreviated NKVD (Russian: НКВД About this sound listen (help·info)) was the public and secret police organization of the Soviet Union that directly executed the rule of power of the Soviets, including political repression, during the era of Stalin.

The NKVD contained the regular, public police force of the USSR (including traffic police, firefighting, border guards and archives) but is better known for the activities of the Gulag and the Main Directorate for State Security (GUGB), which eventually became the Committee for State Security (KGB).

It conducted mass extrajudicial executions, ran the Gulag system of forced labor camps, suppressed underground resistance, conducted mass deportations of entire nationalities and Kulaks to unpopulated regions of the country, guarded state borders, conducted espionage and political assassinations abroad, was responsible for influencing foreign governments, and enforced Stalinist policy within communist movements in other countries.

Possibly state secrets were about to slip out in more ways than one?

It is odd nonetheless that this happened right now when the world is in chaos.

We have a state of flux in Government with everyone bickering amongst themselves, politically, and as well a sense of upheaval with Haiti and an earthquake and volcano on Iceland erupting choking off all International flights.

Anyway, WWJFKD, glad you ran with this article, as I happen to be reading this book.

KGB Alpha Team Training Manual: How The Soviets Trained For Personal Combat, Assassination, And Subversion

Amazon Review :

A rare glimpse into how Soviet Spetsnaz and KGB units protected and defended their country from perceived enemies - inside and outside its borders.

Includes special sections for Alpha Teams on assassination, sabotage and kidnapping.

I would put nothing past the F.S.B. covering up crimes of the N.K.V.D.

COUP D'ÉTAT? **Terrorism from Russia???

Quote from : Wikipedia : Federal Security Service (F.S.B., Russia)

he Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation (FSB) (Russian: ФСБ, Федеральная служба безопасности Российской Федерации; Federal'naya sluzhba bezopasnosti Rossiyskoy Federatsii) is the main domestic security agency of the Russian Federation and the main successor agency of the Soviet-era Cheka, NKVD and KGB.

The FSB is involved in counter-intelligence, internal and border security, counter-terrorism, and surveillance.

Its headquarters are on Lubyanka Square, downtown Moscow, the same location as the former headquarters of the KGB.

The Federal Counterintelligence Service (FSK) was the predecessor of the FSB. A bill calling for the reorganization, expansion and renaming of FSK passed both houses of the Russian parliament and was signed into law on April 3, 1995, by Boris Yeltsin.

It was made subordinate to the Ministry of Justice by presidential decree on March 9, 2004.

These events marked the creation of the FSB.

If they successfully get an international investigation going this means the I.C.A.O. will become involved.

Quote from : Wikipedia : International Civil Aviation Organization

The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), a specialized agency of the United Nations, codifies the principles and techniques of international air navigation and fosters the planning and development of international air transport to ensure safe and orderly growth.

Its headquarters are located in the Quartier International of Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

The ICAO Council adopts standards and recommended practices concerning air navigation, its infrastructure, Flight inspection, prevention of unlawful interference, and facilitation of border-crossing procedures for international civil aviation.

In addition, the ICAO defines the protocols for air accident investigation followed by transport safety authorities in countries signatory to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, commonly known as the Chicago Convention.

The ICAO should not be confused with the International Air Transport Association (IATA), a trade organization for airlines also headquartered in Montreal, or with the Civil Air Navigation Services Organisation (CANSO), an organization for Air Navigation Service Providers (ANSP's) with its headquarters at Amsterdam Airport Schiphol in the Netherlands.

This is of course, the United Nations, covering civilian flights, and will lead to more bureaucracy.

This is the equivalent of the F.A.A. and N.T.S.B. combined on an international level.

I wonder if this investigation will go that high up or if it will be silenced.

Let us see, we have the World Health Organization, a branch of the United Nations on the Mexican/American border, and now the I.C.A.O. being demanded to participate in an international plane crash investigation.

I smell multiple False-Flag Operation's at best and an international conspiracy at worst.

Irregardless of what is found out I believe it will be interesting as Hell to see how the International Community reacts to Poland's demands for an investigation.

Deny Ignorance.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 09:44 AM
Wasn't the Polish prime minister pro-western??? Yes he was...The Russians kind of benefit from his death because it means there is far lesser chance of the Starwars defence shield being placed in Poland now(Russia is pissed about that). You watch, the next Polish PM will be Pro-Russian.

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Mdv2 To all of you who believe there's a conspiracy behind this plane crash, could you come up with some plausible motives to support that claim?

Whether or not the plane was intentionally brought down or not is still in question in my mind. But it is very curious. I think the best way to analyze all of this is to FOLLOW THE MONEY. Where is the money? The way I understand it, and I am only processing what I have read, Mr. Kaczynski was opposed to the deal for Russia to build a gas pipeline from Russia to Poland. Mr. Kaczynski felt that this would make Poland extremely dependent on Russia's fuel and give Russia extreme leverage to control Poland by turning up or down the amount of gas they would send as they would be supplying nearly all of Poland's natural gas. This agreement would keep Poland from harvesting their own large gas fields that had been discovered. As I understand it, the deal would earn Russia approximately $200 billion dollars in revenue. Is $200 billion enough money to bring down the key opposition to the agreement? People are killed or assassinated for much less.

Mr. Kaczynski was also the man who agreed to bring NATO's missile defense shield to Poland. Effectively nullifying Russia's nuclear arms threat.

The president was also against Poland's inclusion into the EU.

Any of these avenues would be large enough consequences to Poland and Russia for there to be those who would want to get rid of someone working as a proponent to stop any of these moves.

So, although I have no knowledge of who or what; I think these three areas do show plenty of motive and feel that they should all be investigated.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by inner_sanctum]

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 10:08 AM
you know in all the time on ats i never met a polish or russian person. and now that this happened, we suddenly have alot of polish people and translators, and they're all trying to convince us it was all just a normal plane crash that just happened to carry all these important political figures. Their translations are half ass, their russian/polish is half ass and they get so hostile to try to prove their "translations" while not answering any questions of importance that i pose to them. that's what i found from trying to investigate this crap in the thread about the gunshots.

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 10:19 AM
Great find! Well this certainly adds fuel to the brewing speculations. Check out this video from a thread I posted a few days back, seems to coincide with what's going on. Video

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 10:23 AM

Originally posted by SKUNK2
Wasn't the Polish prime minister pro-western??? Yes he was...The Russians kind of benefit from his death because it means there is far lesser chance of the Starwars defence shield being placed in Poland now(Russia is pissed about that). You watch, the next Polish PM will be Pro-Russian.

??? Our Prime Minister is alive and well but thank you for the concerns
And yes he is pro-western .

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 10:28 AM
reply to post by ponyboyats

I dont know , but I have been around for some time (it seems much longer than you ) and yes I am trying to show that this was not an assassination , but I guess You know better then the guys that live in Poland ..right

Let me help You out , first do some research on the 2 different political parties in our country that count . Platforma Obywatelska and Prawo i Sprawiedliwość . After You do that and get your facts straight on what agendas both parties have which party was supporting the President and which is supporting the Goverment
, which party was the President associated with etc...

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Thill]

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 10:43 AM
Not sure if you guys have seen this -

Treat others how You wish to be treated~Jesus christ

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:14 AM
reply to post by Thill

well i was talking about people on the other thread that wouldnt answer my straight questions. but seriously. when in history of airplanes an airplane came down that just happened to hold like 96 political officials of any country.
and now, if you volunteer to answer my question i had for a polish speaking person that all of them avoided.:

in this post:
the guy sais that the translation in this video is correct:
now, at 0:58 of this video, after someone sais "davaite na hui otsiuda"
someone else sais a phrase, and the translation reads "we're all going back"
what is the phrase(in russian/polish) that they say? does it not sound like "ne ubivaite *muffled*"? thats all i wanted to know, what is ur translation of that piece.

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:27 AM
also, calling all skeptics to this video:
look at the top left of the circle
you can see a black silhouette of what looks like a gun recoiling upwards as it shoots and a smoke from a gun. almost looks like a gun shot downwards

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:28 AM
reply to post by ponyboyats

Sadly they are speaking in russian which is quiet different from polish so I cannot translate that for You. But I think we have some russian speaking people on ATS that would have no problem with the translation.

About Your question of the crash . Well I do not remember such an event , which does not mean anything . The plane got down because the pilot was ordered to land [by the President] even thou the conditions were beyond bad .

You would have to know how Mr. Lech Kaczynski was to understand what I am saying . This is a similar situation to the one in Tbilisi where Mr. Kaczynski ordered the pilot to land in spite off very dangerous conditions , but in the former case the other pilot refused to do so and flew to another airport , after which he was told by the president and I quote " I will destroy you".

Also one more thing , if You are hearing fluent Russian in that video (which I am) then those are not the passengers of the flight . First our languages are very different , second the accent is very different when we speak Russian so I can safely bet that those are not polish passengers as most of them did not even speak Russian , and if some did, well then the Polish accent would be evident.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Thill]

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:41 AM
reply to post by Thill

ok, all im saying is someone shot at the ground and some people were screaming what seems for their life.

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:46 AM
WOW - I think you should all see THIS VIDEO


there are captions in english and circled areas - it's hard to see - but worth more analysis.

They think they show the man being shot and falling down. Do you think that's what we see there?

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:54 AM
And who is the guy in the blue sweater? The director of this Wag The Dog?

Doesn't he seem out of place and in the wrong mood for a witness of a huge plane crash?

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:57 AM
reply to post by trusername

very interesting. we need better software someone with the skills to really take this vid apart. like that part about the close up of the gun shot. u can clearly see that in slow mo

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 11:58 AM
reply to post by trusername

blue sweater? you mean the guard in the blue coat? he's a police/army guard.

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 12:00 PM
Ok now this is REALLY WEIRD. I've been looking this morning for this video here.

I'd seen it a few days ago.

Look at what they've done to it.

And look at how the new one is completely useless!

The one I saw was a much clearer shot of a shooter. You have to watch this new one several times (and probably need to have seen the old one) to have any idea what you're looking at.

It's a man holding a gun and aiming it down and shooting - It's on the left hand side of the screen and was much clearer in the old version I saw. But you can't see what / who he's shooting at.

YOUTUBE conspiracy! why would they block it out? and not just remove it?

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 12:08 PM

Originally posted by ponyboyats
reply to post by trusername

blue sweater? you mean the guard in the blue coat? he's a police/army guard.

The guard is no spring chicken, white hair and he is casually carrying a brief case away instead of search and rescue - this is minutes after the crash according to reports.

His demeanor is so wrong.

The videographer is acting how I'd expect. This "guard" looks like he is on his way to the bus stop and just heard someone screech his brakes - then noticed it was nothing."

[edit on 4/27/2010 by trusername]

[edit on 4/27/2010 by trusername]

[edit on 4/27/2010 by trusername]

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 12:45 PM

Originally posted by capzzz
I wonder when a concpiracy movie about that plane crash is coming out..

I don't remember where I read this (all I remember was getting linked to a Russian news site translated into polish) but apparently a month before this tragedy happened, a local Russian TV station played a short movie which eerily predicts the events. The movie was about the x-Polish president (RIP) going to a very special event taking his plane and it crashes in one of Europe's largest forests because of a simple pilot error.
I wish i could remember so I can find the source. If anybody else finds this info before I do, PLEASE u2u me!

posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 12:51 PM
reply to post by trusername
here's the original

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