KATYN 2. Polish opposition party demands international investigation into plane crash

KATYN 2. Polish opposition party demands international investigation into plane crash

kavkazcenter.com

The failure of the Polish and Russian government to address compelling new evidence suggesting that the plane crash killing President Lech Kaczynski and top military and civilians leaders was engineered is generating growing criticism in Poland, and has forced Prime Minister Donald Tusk onto the defensive.

Tusk said Sunday that he would issue a report on the official investigation into the crash on Wednesday in an attempt to quell public anger over indications that Polish and Russian politicians are involved in a cover up.

Poland’s chief prosecutor Andrzej Seremet said earlier this wee

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I just received this from my sources in Poland and they implored me to bring this to others attention. It appears that the findings of this journalist are fueling an already growing feeling in the Polish populace that this plane crash was anything but an accident and in true 9/11 fashion - the official story is not adding up. This combined with the positioning of pro Euro sources within the Polish cabinet have raised yet more questions of was this done on purpose to serve an agenda.

Additionally the former Presidents brother has announced his intention to fill the seat of the Presidency and in his own words "We must complete their mission" to add "We owe it to them and we owe it to our fatherland. While immersed in pain and mourning, bound by the eternal memory of our loss, we are obliged to carry out their will.".

Jaroslaw Kaczynski is expected to win handedly despite media downplay, but many have suggested this is eerily similar to when Bobby Kennedy pursued the office of his slain Brother John. Is History repeating?

kavkazcenter.com
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[edit on 27-4-2010 by WWJFKD]

thank you for this
S&F

I just hope and pray their investigation team
does a hell of a lot better than our 9/11
Commission did.

Just think !!!

None of this would have happened except
for 1 video camera !!!!!
That alone proves that
1 person CAN change the world !!!



[edit on 26-4-2010 by boondock-saint]

reply to post by WWJFKD


Very interesting post, man. It will be something to watch as the investigation unfolds. Like boondock-saint, I hope they do a better job of investigating this than some of the recent pasts governments have.

Originally posted by boondock-saint
thank you for this
S&F

I just hope and pray their investigation team
does a hell of a lot better than our 9/11
Commission did.

Just think !!!

None of this would have happened except
for 1 video camera !!!!!
That alone proves that
1 person CAN change the world !!!

Well said.

The Polish people need to be aware of these pro Euro sources in cabinet and watch their every move. They also need to be extremely vigilant regarding potential election fraud and the well being of Jaroslaw Kaczynski.



[edit on 27-4-2010 by Looking_Glass]

TY for the info.
S&F

Here we go again.

Let me begin to say that I don't imply there's no conspiracy, but there is little motive to support a credible conspiracy theory. The arguments I've heard so far are all but plausible.

The notorious video that supposedly recorded gunshots could very well have been exploding ammunition. With so many important people aboard the airplane, there must have been a large number of security personnel alongside the casualties whom obviously weren't unarmed.

To all of you who believe there's a conspiracy behind this plane crash, could you come up with some plausible motives to support that claim?

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Mdv2]

Originally posted by Mdv2
Here we go again.

Let me begin to say that I don't imply there's no conspiracy, but there is little motive to support a credible conspiracy theory. The arguments I've heard so far are all but plausible.

The notorious video that supposedly recorded gunshots could very well have been exploding ammunition. With so many important people aboard the airplane, there must have been a large number of security personnel alongside the casualties whom obviously weren't unarmed.

To all of you who believe there's a conspiracy behind this plane crash, could you come up with some plausible motives to support that claim?

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Mdv2]

The video I posted was clearly gunshots, if you have ever shot a gun you would know this - especially if you've shot in the woods before.

They were not cooked rounds going off from the fire or heat surrounding ammo that may have been on board (which has not even been proven to be true). The sounds is different from a gunshot; I would tell you to go try it out yourself but I am not going to tell someone to go play around with bullets. But if you can find a video go for it, and compare the sounds, and you will hear the difference.

I think there is much more to this story than we are being told, or is known to even the Polish at this point. I personally believe survivors were finished off and/or the person who took the video footage. I'm just glad I have it saved here on the ATS media so we'll always have a copy laying around in case some edited versions are posted at a later date.

S&F for the thread.

Originally posted by Mdv2
Here we go again.

Let me begin to say that I don't imply there's no conspiracy, but there is little motive to support a credible conspiracy theory. The arguments I've heard so far are all but plausible.

The notorious video that supposedly recorded gunshots could very well have been exploding ammunition. With so many important people aboard the airplane, there must have been a large number of security personnel alongside the casualties whom obviously weren't unarmed.

To all of you who believe there's a conspiracy behind this plane crash, could you come up with some plausible motives to support that claim?

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Mdv2]

I quoted the whole text as this is exactly my stand on the whole matter , and I live in this country .

This was an accident , nothing more . Leech Kaczynski was a political dead man with the upcoming presidential elections , he had no chance of winning , so Russia would not gain anything from killing him .

Also taking the whole tragedy of so many people dieing in a plane crash to the side , Poland did not loose so many important people as some want you to believe.

The biggest blow would probably be the military generals and the ceo of our national bank (but there are procedures in place for such cases) , but besides that there were some prominent politicians but hardly the elite of the elite of our country , hell almost nobody important from the currently residing government (which is a good government ) was on that plane .

Actually if you want to theorize about some conspiracy then the biggest winner of the whole situation paradoxically would be Jaroslaw Kaczynski , as now due to the whole drama he actually has a chance at winning the presidential elections and continue his and his brothers political agenda .

Maybe the ceo of your national bank was the original hit in the first place and we've been distracted by the president's death. Just a thought.

Originally posted by highlyoriginal

Originally posted by Mdv2
Here we go again.

Let me begin to say that I don't imply there's no conspiracy, but there is little motive to support a credible conspiracy theory. The arguments I've heard so far are all but plausible.

The notorious video that supposedly recorded gunshots could very well have been exploding ammunition. With so many important people aboard the airplane, there must have been a large number of security personnel alongside the casualties whom obviously weren't unarmed.

To all of you who believe there's a conspiracy behind this plane crash, could you come up with some plausible motives to support that claim?

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Mdv2]

The video I posted was clearly gunshots, if you have ever shot a gun you would know this - especially if you've shot in the woods before.

They were not cooked rounds going off from the fire or heat surrounding ammo that may have been on board (which has not even been proven to be true). The sounds is different from a gunshot; I would tell you to go try it out yourself but I am not going to tell someone to go play around with bullets. But if you can find a video go for it, and compare the sounds, and you will hear the difference.

I think there is much more to this story than we are being told, or is known to even the Polish at this point. I personally believe survivors were finished off and/or the person who took the video footage. I'm just glad I have it saved here on the ATS media so we'll always have a copy laying around in case some edited versions are posted at a later date.

S&F for the thread.

..The mind sees what it wants.....

He raises valid points.. I have been around ammunition that has "cooked" off, and the report sounds the same as a round being discharged from a weapon. The video shown does not show anyone firing a weapon, it allows us to hear reports from ammunition. Could it be cooking off, sure. Could it be fired rounds, sure. The question then is have all of the bodies been returned to Poland? and if so, what do the autopsies show? We are still waiting on the black box information to be released to see if it corresponds to the radio traffic logged at the time of the incident.

Its easy to point fingers when history has taught us to completely disregard what our "enemy" is saying as nothing more than a lie. It is even easier to do, and make a leap of logic, given the circumstances on what was going on at the time of the incident.

Calling for heads on a platter before the inquiries can be completed is a bit premature. Basing conclusions off partial information that has been neither confirmed nor denied is dangerous.

Originally posted by Mdv2
To all of you who believe there's a conspiracy behind this plane crash, could you come up with some plausible motives to support that claim?

How about the fact that the Russian President immediately said that his team would carry out the investigations.
How about the fact that so many influential people were on one flight,
How about the fact that Poland were working on a massive oil and gas deal that would have made the country much more stable and powerful than the countries around it.
How about the fact that the newpapers around the world have reported very little about this incident and more about the volcanic ash?
How about the fact that a video appeared online with what sounds like gunshots and somebody screaming.
How about the alleged death of the person who took that video (I say alleged because we don't know for a fact that it happened) however, if it did more fuel for the conspiracy fire.
How about the strange events that took place before the plane crashed i.e the sharp bank to the right (possibly to avoid something)
How about the fact that the records showed that the aircraft had no technical problems.
How about the immediate reports in the media of the president ordering the plane down.
How about the fact that the aircrew stopped responding to the air traffic control before the plane hit the ground.
How about the fact that so called polish expert Colonel Zbigniew Rzepa refused to tell more about the flights black box recorder
How about the fact that with the plane travelling at 150 to 180 meters per second, there was sufficient time for Captain Arkadiusz Protasiuk and his flight crew to realise the catastrophe that was about to hit the plane and its passenger
How about the fact that residents of the area said that the DENSE FOG "suddenly appeared" in that particular area

No conspicacy here.......Move along please

I believe that franspeakfree summed that all up.

Great post

Having a pilot equivalent to America’s AirForce 1’s...it’s very unlikely the pilot would just “fly too low.”

That’s such a poor excuse.

Going on..I hoped that an investigation would be commited...it’ll hopefully give truth to us. I do rather doubt it...I mean, c’mon...are they really going to spoil us rotten with the truth -> there would obviously be a coverup...and it’s always “so the public don’t know.”

reply to post by WWJFKD


I hope they find out that this was not accidental and was indeed planned and executed... mind you, would it become public knowledge or would it be covered up just like other events over the years?

Flagged!

I wonder when a concpiracy movie about that plane crash is coming out..

S&F OP

The more time passes the more S$#& floats to the surface. The silence is deafening from the investigators and officials. For the officials not to comment gives more fuel for the rumor mill to pick up speed giving credence to the fact that something is being covered up and not told to the public at large.
IMO this will not go down like 9/11. Europeans are far too keen and will not eat up the BS the MSM will feed them. I hope the right people replace the fallen government and steer far away from EU/Euro.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Taikun]

Has anyone used professional software to compare the sounds in the video, and the sounds at the crash? Saying "I like, totally know a gunshot.. it was that," means nothing honestly. You are in essence saying it's impossible for anything else to sound like a gunshot. One would think this could be tested, and proven without a doubt to be the exact same sound created by a gun.

Originally posted by franspeakfree

Originally posted by Mdv2
To all of you who believe there's a conspiracy behind this plane crash, could you come up with some plausible motives to support that claim?

How about the fact that the Russian President immediately said that his team would carry out the investigations.
How about the fact that so many influential people were on one flight,
How about the fact that Poland were working on a massive oil and gas deal that would have made the country much more stable and powerful than the countries around it.
How about the fact that the newpapers around the world have reported very little about this incident and more about the volcanic ash?
How about the fact that a video appeared online with what sounds like gunshots and somebody screaming.
How about the alleged death of the person who took that video (I say alleged because we don't know for a fact that it happened) however, if it did more fuel for the conspiracy fire.
How about the strange events that took place before the plane crashed i.e the sharp bank to the right (possibly to avoid something)
How about the fact that the records showed that the aircraft had no technical problems.
How about the immediate reports in the media of the president ordering the plane down.
How about the fact that the aircrew stopped responding to the air traffic control before the plane hit the ground.
How about the fact that so called polish expert Colonel Zbigniew Rzepa refused to tell more about the flights black box recorder
How about the fact that with the plane travelling at 150 to 180 meters per second, there was sufficient time for Captain Arkadiusz Protasiuk and his flight crew to realise the catastrophe that was about to hit the plane and its passenger
How about the fact that residents of the area said that the DENSE FOG "suddenly appeared" in that particular area

No conspicacy here.......Move along please

Hmm I wonder where You get your facts ?

-The Russian president immediately offered help because this happened while the delegation was headed for the Katyn murder festivities and it would have looked VERY badly if Russia did not offer help . This way Russia looks good in the eyes of the EU .

Also the investigation is being conducted by a joint Russian-Polish team .

-So many influential people were on board because this was the only gov plane on that trip.

- We are still preparing for the oil and gas deal (actually its mainly gas as thats what has been found on our soil)

-Most media from ALL around the world reported this and it was the topic of at least 2 days world wide and it is still the topic number one in our country.

-No comment on the dead guy for now.

-And what reaction do you expect when a gov plane crashes and you have media and other officials waiting for it ? I think screams of shock would be appropriate. About the gunshots , there are a few theories at this moment .

-Sharp bank might have been due to the fact they hit the power lines ?

-No technical problems on the aircraft .

-The most likely scenario was that Lech Kacyznski ordered the pilot to land no matter what (as in "I don't care that there is a fog so thick that you cant see the end of the plane , I want You to land!") , because he did not want to be late for one of the most important festivities in his political career and the next airport was about 200KM away .

- That plane actually had 4 black boxes and all of them were recovered and are being analyzed , 2 of the are almost finished (I think the one with voices in the cockpit and the flight data) , and they are to be released to the public.

Umm I guess I addressed most of Your "facts" . Let me know if You have more .

What some of You seem not to understand is the fact that this did not cripple the Polish government and Geo-political standings AT ALL. The president was disliked by more than 60% of the people , and was destined to fail at the upcoming elections . The party that was hit the hardest is the opposition party which is supported by about 25-30% of the population (largely due to the church ties from where they get their electorate ) as opposed to almost 55% for the current government and their supporting party .

The ONLY thing that might have hit us a bit is the loss of our national bank CEO and the military generals , but this is also not a big hit since there are replacements .

Don't get me wrong this was a great tragedy but ONLY due to the fact that so many well known people died in this crash , but it lacks any repercussions for the country itself , at least for today.

How about the alleged death of the person who took that video (I say alleged because we don't know for a fact that it happened) however, if it did more fuel for the conspiracy fire.

Why would they kill him? If this indeed was an assassination, the damage had already been done. Killing him would only create suspicion. Besides, you don't think that they, the FSB or any other organization that you think carried out this operation would be so stupid to allow this guy to enter the parameter and even more stupidly let him get away? If Russia would be behind this, they would not allow such amateurish mistakes. The FSB is way too professional for this to happen. That guy who taped the video would have been dead before he'd even get a chance to upload it.

Originally posted by franspeakfree
How about the fact that the Russian President immediately said that his team would carry out the investigations.

What is out of the ordinary about this? If such a crash would have happened on US territory, An American team would lead the investigation. Naturally, the same applies for Russia and they are joined by Polish investigators: Air crash: Polish, Russian investigators examining flight data recorders

How about the fact that so many influential people were on one flight,

That is suspicious but mere speculation, not sufficient and a credible motive to support a conspiracy theory.

How about the fact that Poland were working on a massive oil and gas deal that would have made the country much more stable and powerful than the countries around it.

How do you reckon this gas deal will be endangered as a consequence of this plane crash. Edit: could you elaborate whether you mean the gas discoveries in Poland or the deal that was not yet signed between Russia and Poland over long-term gas deliveries? If the first, you don't think that the development of these gas fields will be stopped as a consequence of this gas field, do you? Should I be worried that my government will end up similarly as we have the third largest gas reserves in Europe behind Russia and Norway?

How about the fact that the newpapers around the world have reported very little about this incident and more about the volcanic ash?

So now it is suddenly a conspiracy that involves all of the world's media outlets? This argument is nonsense, there was plenty of reporting on this crash and I am curious how you are gonna support that claim.

How about the fact that a video appeared online with what sounds like gunshots and somebody screaming.

Sounds like gunshots, yes. It could very well have been exploding ammunition. Experts should judge that. Until that has happened, it remains pure speculation.

How about the strange events that took place before the plane crashed i.e the sharp bank to the right (possibly to avoid something)
How about the fact that the records showed that the aircraft had no technical problems.

Records do not proof anything about malfunctioning of equipment during that flight. Or are all flights that crashed but did not have any records about technical problems before departing now conspiracies?

The presidential Tu-154 was at least 20 years old. Polish officials have long discussed replacing the planes that carry the country’s leaders but said they lacked the funds.

According to the Aviation Safety Network, there have been 66 crashes involving Tu-154s, including six in the past five years. The Russian carrier Aeroflot recently withdrew its Tu-154 fleet from service.

source

How about the immediate reports in the media of the president ordering the plane down.

That's what he had done before, so questioning whether he did the same is not that strange.

How about the fact that the aircrew stopped responding to the air traffic control before the plane hit the ground.

I don't know. The black boxes should give an understanding of that.

How about the fact that with the plane travelling at 150 to 180 meters per second, there was sufficient time for Captain Arkadiusz Protasiuk and his flight crew to realise the catastrophe that was about to hit the plane and its passenger

Are you an aviation expert? Do you know the exact equipment they had aboard and at the former and outdated military airbase of Smolensk?

How about the fact that residents of the area said that the DENSE FOG "suddenly appeared" in that particular area

Now you want me to believe that they faked the fog? I am curious how this is done, especially if an extremely huge area would need to be ''fogged'' to make a landing difficult for a pilot.

No conspicacy here.......Move along please

With all due respect, your motives are extremely poor and I am very skeptical about the so called conspiracy theory you insinuate.

Originally posted by BlackPoison94
Having a pilot equivalent to America’s AirForce 1’s...it’s very unlikely the pilot would just “fly too low.”

That’s such a poor excuse.

The plane was over 20 years old. Are you clairvoyant? Perhaps their instruments malfunctioned. Besides, the Smolensk airbase used to be a military airbase and had only recently been changed into a civilian airbase. It is know that they lacked any modern equipment. Comparing n old plane and a lack of modern equipment on the ground to Airforce One makes no sense.









[edit on 27-4-2010 by Mdv2]

Originally posted by boondock-saint
thank you for this
S&F

I just hope and pray their investigation team
does a hell of a lot better than our 9/11
Commission did.

Just think !!!

None of this would have happened except
for 1 video camera !!!!!
That alone proves that
1 person CAN change the world !!!



[edit on 26-4-2010 by boondock-saint]

This Right Here.