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Chomsky says Fascism is close by.

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posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by Conqueror of Seth
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Oh great, back with the "Hitler was a leftist even though that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and I have no idea what I'm talking about" bs.

Myth: Hitler was a leftist

There isn't a single argument you've made anywhere in this thread that has been even slightly coherent, well-thought out, or backed up by history or facts.


wow, really convincing arguments there LOL

That guy really jumped through some hoops to avoid confronting the reality of Hitlers policies. He blames it all on racism. Of course, Hitler was a rabid racist, however he was also a fascist.

That article does not address Hitlers socialist policies at all. Such as his heavily graduated income tax, his redistribution schemes, welfare polices, state control over private production, etc.. etc.. etc.. All of which are leftist in nature and none of which have anything to do with capitalism.

Claiming Hitler was a "right winger" because he was racist and believed in competition is to ignore 99.9% of what Hitler actually did while he was in power.





[edit on 27-4-2010 by mnemeth1]




posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 04:59 PM
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here, watch these videos and get yourself up to speed.


more on the Fascist State here:
www.youtube.com...



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


You seem to have a hard time understanding that there is more to determining a states place on the political spectrum than just economics alone.

Don't worry, I'm sure there are some 6th graders with the exact same problem.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by Conqueror of Seth
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


You seem to have a hard time understanding that there is more to determining a states place on the political spectrum than just economics alone.

Don't worry, I'm sure there are some 6th graders with the exact same problem.


Hey, I'm not the one ignoring what Hitler actually did while he was in power here.

Its funny that I have a list of a dozen economists lecturing on Fascism that agree with me, while you have some random guys post from an obscure web site that agrees with you.

Hell, even Chommie agrees with me to some extent. He's just deluding himself into thinking we don't already have a fascist state. He seems to think another GW is going to come along and enslave us.

I got a news flash for Chommie, Obama's policies aren't any different than GW's and he's accelerating the fascist state 10 fold right now.


[edit on 27-4-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by belial259

Originally posted by Kaytagg
Only ignorant, uneducated, and low intelligence people attack the man making the argument, rather than the argument itself.

Next time you come to ATS, leave the Ad Homs at home.


I don't see a problem attacking the man or the argument. Given the man seems to be some kind of disinformation agent.

There were many that put much weight behind Chomsky's words and his various works. His insistence of parroting the establishment line makes him and his opinions dangerous to those who respect truth and freedom.

And for this Chomsky himself should be exposed.


Are you KIDDING me??

Talk about a disinformation agent, I'm wondering the same about YOU!

Chomsky is NOT towing the establishment line, he has remained consistently against the system. Did you EVEN READ the article?? If you did you'd see that he criticized Obama for catering to the bankers and giving them just what they wanted.

Your ignorance is quite annoying/frustrating. Stop spreading propaganda to discredit Chomsky. Chomsky is absolutely an authority on such matters, he's one of the most respected and advanced modern political philosophers and he DOES HIS HOMEWORK more than just about anybody I've ever heard of.

Chomsky is calling it like he sees it, and I absolutely agree with him. The Tea Party movement and right-wing angst is boiling and it's ALREADY been hijacked from the get-go by corporatist right-wing groups like FreedomWorks, AmericansForProsperity, Koch Industries, Fox News, and that blithering bug-eyed liar "Lord" Monckton.

I can absolutely see the new American brown-shirts rising from the very same crowd that now carries the "Don't Tread on Me" flag. I'm sure some of them would resist, but the vast majority of tea-baggers are very seriously ignorant of politics, history, and the truth and they're being lied to, manipulated, and whipped into a paranoid/angry fervor against eeeevil "socialism" and "communism". The Nazis hunted down liberals, communists, and actual socialists. The moniker of National Socialist was simply a populist ruse for the time that allowed the Nazis to gain popular support and then abandon their promises to chase corporatism/Fascism/imperialism. I can ABSOLUTELY see the right-wing turning into that...

Tea-partiers need to be very careful right now, they need to shake off their quasi-fascist puppet-masters and seek out the truth about what's going on. They need to ally themselves with activists on the LEFT that are composed of the regular populace. If they don't and things turn ugly the blood will be on their hands.

In the meantime- I ADVISE ALL LEFT-WINGERS AND POTENTIAL TARGETS OF RIGHT-WING UBER-PATRIOTS TO ARM YOURSELVES IF YOU AREN'T ALREADY, I'M SERIOUS, I'VE ALWAYS SUPPORTED THE SECOND AMENDMENT AND YOU SHOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT RIGHT SO YOU CAN PREVENT BAD HISTORY FROM REPEATING ITSELF.

Otherwise, everyone with half a brain should unite left and right wing activist organizations who REALLY want the truth and a better/freer/diverse future here. We need to resist the poison of the plutocracy and its agents in business, government, and corrupt think-tanks. This Tea-party movement is NOT part of the resistance till it abandons/shakes off its ties to mainstream/corporatist right-wing groups.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1

I got a news flash for Chommie, Obama's policies aren't any different than GW's and he's accelerating the fascist state 10 fold right now.


[edit on 27-4-2010 by mnemeth1]


PROVE IT.

The reality is the opposite. GW was 10 times worse than Obama in almost every way.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1

Originally posted by Janky Red

No really, your arrogance is far more simple and agredious

problem
My dogs teeth are filled with tartar

solution
USE A GUN!

problem
That man is trying to molest my wife

solution
USE A GUN

problem
I can't seem to lose any weight

solution
USE A GUN

problem
My toilet won't flush

solution
USE A GUN

At least Chomsky does not sit about on the intellectual couch all day, every day.

Boy you have got the easiest job in the world mnemeth, I envy the set up you have engineered for yourself here.




I'm not sure what you mean by "use a gun"

The State uses guns to solve every social problem. In fact, the State could not exist without guns. In order for the State to redistribute wealth, it first must take it by force. There are no State social programs that don't in some way involve the use of guns.




Well it is great to see you and the state have everything in common

In short you apply the same solution regardless of the problem, are you being coy?

( OOPS incoming, physic message )

how I hate to disrupt the timeline -

transmitting...

"Well the State uses the same solution for every problem"

So society should apply the same logical based reaction as the state Mnem?
Who is crazier the optimist or the cynic?

Every problem is addressed with the same solution regardless of the problem.

The worst part is you idea identify every dysfunction as being a result of the
same thing across the board. This aspect appears to function with the same mechanism of any religion, any ideas out of this arena are discarded and disregarded based upon
the tenets of the religion.


this board is alight with this perpetuation you personify, we might as well discuss god
in detail.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 06:34 PM
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mnemeth, you're doing two things wrong:

1) You think of economics as the end-all, be-all in determining what the classification of a state is.

2) You're applying the American interpretation of the left - right spectrum on a universal scale, which is most certainly going to end up confusing matters.

The left-right scale should actually be measured alongside a libertarian - authoritarian scale, intersecting like an X-Y axis:



If left-wing authoritarian (Soviet Communism, Maosim, common misconception of 'socialism', etc) is the form of "state imposed collectivism", and Hitler was anti-collectivism, then how is Hitler a left-wing authoritarian figure?

I suspect you know this, if you study economics as much as you claim. Unfortunately it clashes with your narrow 'anarcho-capitalist' worldview and you chose to ignore it.



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by Someone336
mnemeth, you're doing two things wrong:

1) You think of economics as the end-all, be-all in determining what the classification of a state is.

2) You're applying the American interpretation of the left - right spectrum on a universal scale, which is most certainly going to end up confusing matters.

The left-right scale should actually be measured alongside a libertarian - authoritarian scale, intersecting like an X-Y axis:



If left-wing authoritarian (Soviet Communism, Maosim, common misconception of 'socialism', etc) is the form of "state imposed collectivism", and Hitler was anti-collectivism, then how is Hitler a left-wing authoritarian figure?

I suspect you know this, if you study economics as much as you claim. Unfortunately it clashes with your narrow 'anarcho-capitalist' worldview and you chose to ignore it.


I agree.

Everybody should read up on the actual Nazi Party (National Socialist German Workers' Party). Regardless of its inclusion of "Socialist" into the name and the adoption of SOME left-wing policies, it was largely a far-right-wing group which made alliances with other right-wing groups, industrialists, and vehemently opposed and hunted down those on the left.

en.wikipedia.org...

Read up people. And don't give me that "OMGZ U LINKED 2 WIKIPEDIA, WTF?!?!11" crap. Studies have actually shown that Wikipedia is on par with Encyclopedia Britannica in accuracy.

It's interesting you posted that chart too, Someone336, because as I read through the wiki entry, I came upon this:




Political Position
The Nazi Party is generally described as being at the extreme or far right of the left-right political axis.[20] While the party incorporated elements from both left and right-wing politics, the Nazis formed most of their alliances on the right.[20] On the Nolan Chart, the Nazi party would be described as politically extreme authoritarian, and economically centrist[21].


This being the Nolan chart:




posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 06:50 PM
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This sheds light on an alarming parallel to our own times of economic downturn/depression and the rise of right-wing populism in German during the 1920's:

www.germanculture.com.ua...



posted on Apr, 27 2010 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by NoHierarchy
 


Interesting info, NoHierarchy! I was unfamiliar with the Nolan chart, and it back up completely what we are saying.

Hitler didn't push the "proletariat revolution", he allowed private property, private business and a market that operated, for the most part, independently from the state. Certain individuals paint with huge brushes when they make the claims that

A)all left-wing thought is socialist thought.
B)all dictators in history are left wing. (thus, all dictators are socialist? Holy moly, I smell a job offer from Fox News for "Propaganda Minister"! Move over, Beck!)
C)Hitler was a socialist because he used a misnomer in the naming of his political party.

I know, you know, and I'm sure all people here know that totalitarianism can occur regardless of race, creed, or spot on the political spectrum. All those who think otherwise are ignorant or are gaining something from such obfuscation. Or perhaps it's simply an exercise in self-deception?



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