Chomsky says Fascism is close by.

reply to post by pavil


Because we're being prepared to swing the pendulum. People are being disenfranchised with the left. The same thing that happened with Bush

reply to post by belial259

Naomi Wolfe has some good video work worth viewing on youtube.
www.youtube.com...
I think this is right.

reply to post by muzzleflash


Just a moment! you have actually read Chomsky? SO this means that you actually understand a bit about his writing. Well that is awesome.

I agree with you something seems to have left him. He is undersuspicion in some circles and has been for the last few years. I also believe the official 9/11 line.

The basic situation is this: The current form of US capitilism is on the critical list. Fear and uncertainty is rife. The left is in an idelogical quandary with the demise of the soviet union. Economies and nature hate a vacuum so all that is left is fascism or anarchy leading to fascism. Now it could be argued that I am using the old left wing framework and something else could be around the corner but what would it look like if not fascism.


All it really would take is the right kind of charismatic leader and say a Wall street crisis and the streets could become quite lively.

[edit on 26-4-2010 by Tiger5]

You have to love Chommies arrogance:

He said “the colossal toll of the institutional crimes of state capitalism” is what is fueling “the indignation and rage of those cast aside.”

The "institutional crimes of state capitalism" - as if there is such a thing.

Capitalism is free markets devoid of government interference.

With 28 trillion of tax payer dollars bailing out criminal bankers, to call this "state capitalism" is a f'cking joke. Its pure fascism. Fascism isn't "coming" to America, it's already here in spades.

In case Chommie forgot, the Nazi's were all about merging state and corporate interests, along with social welfare for the masses. The Nazi's were a radical left wing party, not a right wing party. Hitler was a totalitarian control freak, not a free market capitalist.

Chommie's nonsense only serves to muddy the waters and shift blame to those who question state authority.

What a load of crap.





[edit on 27-4-2010 by mnemeth1]

Originally posted by mnemeth1
You have to love Chommies arrogance:

He said “the colossal toll of the institutional crimes of state capitalism” is what is fueling “the indignation and rage of those cast aside.”

The "institutional crimes of state capitalism" - as if there is such a thing.

Capitalism is free markets devoid of government interference.

With 28 trillion of tax payer dollars bailing out criminal bankers, to call this "state capitalism" is a f'cking joke. Its pure fascism. Fascism isn't "coming" to America, it's already here in spades.

In case Chommie forgot, the Nazi's were all about merging state and corporate interests, along with social welfare for the masses. The Nazi's were a radical left wing party, not a right wing party. Hitler was a totalitarian control freak, not a free market capitalist.

Chommie's nonsense only serves to muddy the waters and shift blame to those who question state authority.

What a load of crap.
[edit on 27-4-2010 by mnemeth1]

First off, I don't think you have a clear understanding of the term "state capitalism" means.

"An alternate definition is that state capitalism is a close relationship between the government and private capitalism, such as one in which the private capitalists produce for a guaranteed market. An example of this would be the military-industrial complex where autonomous entrepreneurial firms produce for lucrative government contracts and are not subject to the discipline of competitive markets." from the wikipedia article "state capitalism"

and beyond that, bailing out the banks is an absolute, 100% textbook example of state capitalism.

The Nazis weren't "all about merging...blah blah blah" they were all about installing a totalitarian regime, pretty much everything else they did or said was pandering to get votes. The Nazis were also far from being on the left side of the political spectrum, so far in fact, that they were on the complete opposite side of the political spectrum. I think it's called "the right."


You should rethink your avatar, real anarchists might be offended by your ignorance being associated with them.

reply to post by Conqueror of Seth



"State capitalism" is a term recently concocted by the ignorant left to describe what purely can be labeled as Fascism. The purpose of the term is to demonize free markets and is nothing more than blatant propaganda.

Let us quote the Il Duce himself:

“Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.”

Considering the man wrote the book on Fascism, I'll take his word for it.

Calling the Nazi's right wingers is so ridiculous I don't even need to refute it. The word "socialist" even appears in their freaking party name. It doesn't get any clearer than that.



[edit on 27-4-2010 by mnemeth1]

The word 'republic' appears in the name of the USSR, but it was most certainly not a republic.

I'm also not sure how one who supports voluntary autonomous collectivism can be a statist?

Hitler was a real "right winger"

reason.com...

-graduated income taxes
-steep taxes on the wealthy
-redistribution schemes from the rich
-redistribution of Jewish wealth
-state corporate sponsorship
-merging of state and corporate interests
etc.. etc.. etc..

Hitler was a left wing ideologue, as have been all other dictators throughout history.

bread and circuses anyone?

Originally posted by Someone336
The word 'republic' appears in the name of the USSR, but it was most certainly not a republic.

I'm also not sure how one who supports voluntary autonomous collectivism can be a statist?

Republic is a form of government.

It most certainly was a republic in the traditional sense.

Communist leaders were elected officials.

While there was only one political party, they were all elected.

Originally posted by Mr Headshot
readersupportednews.org...

Noam Chomsky, the leading leftwing intellectual, warned last week that fascism may be coming to the United States.

“I’m just old enough to have heard a number of Hitler’s speeches on the radio,” he said, “and I have a memory of the texture and the tone of the cheering mobs, and I have the dread sense of the dark clouds of fascism gathering” here at home.

What he says in here is that we're at an important time and that the Tea Parties aren't necessarily in the wrong (this guy is on the left if you didn't know)

He says that somebody who comes along with a lot of charisma from the right, someone that everyone likes, that person may be the next Hitler-like figure.

Now, this doesn't surprise me.

Yuri Besmenov (see my thread here: www.abovetopsecret.com...) pretty much laid this plan out back in the 80s.

Fun times ahead.

Do not forget also what the ancient Greeks had to say.

they said the Tyrant will be identiable through the words "I will guarantee your rights."

This is a paraphrase that comes through scholars of greek thought when looking the types of political bodies that arise.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by Conqueror of Seth

 

"State capitalism" is a term recently concocted by the ignorant left to describe what purely can be labeled as Fascism. The purpose of the term is to demonize free markets and is nothing more than blatant propaganda.

Let us quote the Il Duce himself:

“Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.”

Considering the man wrote the book on Fascism, I'll take his word for it.

Calling the Nazi's right wingers is so ridiculous I don't even need to refute it. The word "socialist" even appears in their freaking party name. It doesn't get any clearer than that.



[edit on 27-4-2010 by mnemeth1]

Recently is in 1896? uhhh, hello ignorance, good to have you back so soon.

Mussolini was far from being the greatest fascist to ever live, so quit trying to idealize him as some infamous fascist. he wasn't.

Many conservatives accuse Hitler of being a leftist, on the grounds that his party was named "National Socialist." But socialism requires worker ownership and control of the means of production. In Nazi Germany, private capitalist individuals owned the means of production, and they in turn were frequently controlled by the Nazi party and state. True socialism does not advocate such economic dictatorship -- it can only be democratic. Hitler's other political beliefs place him almost always on the far right. He advocated racism over racial tolerance, eugenics over freedom of reproduction, merit over equality, competition over cooperation, power politics and militarism over pacifism, dictatorship over democracy, capitalism over Marxism, realism over idealism, nationalism over internationalism, exclusiveness over inclusiveness, common sense over theory or science, pragmatism over principle, and even held friendly relations with the Church, even though he was an atheist.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Hitler was a real "right winger"

reason.com...

-graduated income taxes
-steep taxes on the wealthy
-redistribution schemes from the rich
-redistribution of Jewish wealth
-state corporate sponsorship
-merging of state and corporate interests
etc.. etc.. etc..

Hitler was a left wing ideologue, as have been all other dictators throughout history.

bread and circuses anyone?

I generally try not too resort to insulting someone due to their lack of intelligence, but when people spout this glenn beck style nonsense that is based in some distant realm of fantasy rather than in reality, it get's extremely difficult not to.

Originally posted by Conqueror of Seth

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Hitler was a real "right winger"

reason.com...

-graduated income taxes
-steep taxes on the wealthy
-redistribution schemes from the rich
-redistribution of Jewish wealth
-state corporate sponsorship
-merging of state and corporate interests
etc.. etc.. etc..

Hitler was a left wing ideologue, as have been all other dictators throughout history.

bread and circuses anyone?

I generally try not too resort to insulting someone due to their lack of intelligence, but when people spout this glenn beck style nonsense that is based in some distant realm of fantasy rather than in reality, it get's extremely difficult not to.

So you're calling me a liar?

Hitler didn't really have steep graduated income taxes and massive wealth redistribution schemes?

I'm just making it all up hey?

Originally posted by Conqueror of Seth

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by Conqueror of Seth

 

"State capitalism" is a term recently concocted by the ignorant left to describe what purely can be labeled as Fascism. The purpose of the term is to demonize free markets and is nothing more than blatant propaganda.

Let us quote the Il Duce himself:

“Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.”

Considering the man wrote the book on Fascism, I'll take his word for it.

Calling the Nazi's right wingers is so ridiculous I don't even need to refute it. The word "socialist" even appears in their freaking party name. It doesn't get any clearer than that.



[edit on 27-4-2010 by mnemeth1]

Recently is in 1896? uhhh, hello ignorance, good to have you back so soon.

Mussolini was far from being the greatest fascist to ever live, so quit trying to idealize him as some infamous fascist. he wasn't.

Many conservatives accuse Hitler of being a leftist, on the grounds that his party was named "National Socialist." But socialism requires worker ownership and control of the means of production. In Nazi Germany, private capitalist individuals owned the means of production, and they in turn were frequently controlled by the Nazi party and state. True socialism does not advocate such economic dictatorship -- it can only be democratic. Hitler's other political beliefs place him almost always on the far right. He advocated racism over racial tolerance, eugenics over freedom of reproduction, merit over equality, competition over cooperation, power politics and militarism over pacifism, dictatorship over democracy, capitalism over Marxism, realism over idealism, nationalism over internationalism, exclusiveness over inclusiveness, common sense over theory or science, pragmatism over principle, and even held friendly relations with the Church, even though he was an atheist.

Dude

Mussolini wrote "The Doctrine of Fascism"

en.wikipedia.org...

He literally wrote the book on fascism.

Your ignorance is powerful.

Also, as to the socialist aspects of Nazi Germany, included with in the definition of socialism is wealth redistribution. Hitler wasn't a pure socialist as you rightfully point out - he was a fascist.

And fascism is a left wing ideology.




[edit on 27-4-2010 by mnemeth1]

You could map ideologies left to right as such:

Socialism -- Fascism ----------------------- Capitalism

Socialism = total state control
Fascism = state control of private production
Capitalism = no state control

Ask any average right winger if government should be involved in the market and they will tell you no.

Ask any average left winger if government should be involved in the market and they will tell you yes.

Free market capitalists are pissed at the bailouts, as Chommie points out, because they see government propping up failed corporations as a form of fascism. Its evil and wrong. The tax payers are being made to pay for the mistakes of private institutions. This is the epitome of fascism.

reply to post by mnemeth1


I'm not calling you a liar, I'm saying your grasp on the differences between fascism and socialism is tenuous at best.

also, The Mentor wrote The Hacker Manifesto, doesn't make him the be-all end-all of hackers, it makes him someone who wrote something. Nothing more, nothing less.


edit, I might reply to your last post if I ever stop LOL'ing at the thought of you actually taking yourself seriously. Do you actually think you know what you're talking about?

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Conqueror of Seth]

Originally posted by mnemeth1
You have to love Chommies arrogance:

He said “the colossal toll of the institutional crimes of state capitalism” is what is fueling “the indignation and rage of those cast aside.”

The "institutional crimes of state capitalism" - as if there is such a thing.

Capitalism is free markets devoid of government interference.

With 28 trillion of tax payer dollars bailing out criminal bankers, to call this "state capitalism" is a f'cking joke. Its pure fascism. Fascism isn't "coming" to America, it's already here in spades.

In case Chommie forgot, the Nazi's were all about merging state and corporate interests, along with social welfare for the masses. The Nazi's were a radical left wing party, not a right wing party. Hitler was a totalitarian control freak, not a free market capitalist.

Chommie's nonsense only serves to muddy the waters and shift blame to those who question state authority.

What a load of crap.





[edit on 27-4-2010 by mnemeth1]

No really, your arrogance is far more simple and agredious

problem
My dogs teeth are filled with tartar

solution
USE A GUN!

problem
That man is trying to molest my wife

solution
USE A GUN

problem
I can't seem to lose any weight

solution
USE A GUN

problem
My toilet won't flush

solution
USE A GUN

At least Chomsky does not sit about on the intellectual couch all day, every day.

Boy you have got the easiest job in the world mnemeth, I envy the set up you have engineered for yourself here.

Originally posted by Conqueror of Seth
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

I'm not calling you a liar, I'm saying your grasp on the differences between fascism and socialism is tenuous at best.

also, The Mentor wrote The Hacker Manifesto, doesn't make him the be-all end-all of hackers, it makes him someone who wrote something. Nothing more, nothing less.

I would say your grasp of the differences is tenuous at best.

I actually studied Hitler and Mussolini's doctrines. I know exactly what they were all about. They certainly weren't about free market capitalism.

Hitler was a leftist ideologue that used race as an excuse to implement socialist welfare/warfare state policies. The economics of which followed Mussolini's layout of the state exerting control over private means of production.

This is precisely what we have in America today.

None of this has ANY relationship to capitalism.

Originally posted by Janky Red

No really, your arrogance is far more simple and agredious

problem
My dogs teeth are filled with tartar

solution
USE A GUN!

problem
That man is trying to molest my wife

solution
USE A GUN

problem
I can't seem to lose any weight

solution
USE A GUN

problem
My toilet won't flush

solution
USE A GUN

At least Chomsky does not sit about on the intellectual couch all day, every day.

Boy you have got the easiest job in the world mnemeth, I envy the set up you have engineered for yourself here.

I'm not sure what you mean by "use a gun"

The State uses guns to solve every social problem. In fact, the State could not exist without guns. In order for the State to redistribute wealth, it first must take it by force. There are no State social programs that don't in some way involve the use of guns.

reply to post by mnemeth1


Oh great, back with the "Hitler was a leftist even though that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and I have no idea what I'm talking about" bs.

Myth: Hitler was a leftist

There isn't a single argument you've made anywhere in this thread that has been even slightly coherent, well-thought out, or backed up by history or facts.