Why should we believe in humanoid aliens?

reply to post by BlankSlate


Don't limit yourself to Earth. A planet with high pressure and low gravity (small gas giant), will enable an ocean-like oxygen atmosphere. You will be able to swim through essentially breathable air. perfect for a reptile octopus. Also, look at my links. The crow made a spear in under a minute. Also elephants make tools pretty fast too. Our hands are only good because it was the most useful item on our bodies already to develop. Something else might be more useful on another animal that can develop over time. The elephant's nose over time has already developed three finger-like nubs that enable it to paint, grasp, etc etc. Over a few million years this could very easily develop into a single grasping hand that would make a 5th limb, but only muscular. One could imagine on another world elephant-like creatures essentially becoming some kind of mammalian unipos, not octopus, Also, again, worlds with higher or lower trees via gravity may not even have primates for humans to develop out of. They might be based on something totally different. Just take a look at speculative worlds like Aurelia and Blue Moon, or how about nemo ramjet's aviesapiens, or Snaiad. All speculative planets thoroughly thought out for different conditions. None of which generated humanoids, or even ape-like creatures.


reply to post by zetamafia911


And why would they need them? Also, something like the above mentioned Aviesapiens could. Not humanoid.


reply to post by ignorant_ape


1.) As opposed to flying? Swimming? or just not jumping at all? None of these determines intelligence. And flight would get the most food.

2.) What about x2 it's body height? Human legs are hardly the best.

3.) what about crawling through something fractions of its body length? Boneless really would be the best for that.

4.) What about having more legs to carry more then its body wight?

5.) Whales and Dolphins can go much more than 1 minute. 1 minute is pretty pathetic to most mammals as well.

6.) As opposed to just knocking the tree down or completely ignoring it?

7.) We only evolved thumbs because previously that finger was pretty useless. What of species who already have methods around that disability? Like tentacles or a tool-like beak?

For everything you just listed, a dog sized bird with a big brain could do them all and more, and on a light gravity planet, a land squid could do ever better. And on a large gravity planet, an elephant like thing could do them all better. And hey, kick gravity out all together. A nebula-evolved species wouldn't be bothered by any of that.

Open your mind some more. No 2 planets are the same, and the habitable planets we've already found are as wide and diverse as imaginable. There is still no reason to be hominid in any way shape and or form.

reply to post by Gorman91


Most animals, and all mammals, have the same basic skeletal structure, head, spine, forelimbs, hindlimbs etc. This shows, in my opinion, that evolution has found a perfect solution to mobility in a our given circumstances. Bipedalism has given rise to our inteligence, freeing our hands to make and carry tools etc. There is as much reason that this formula could be a universal theme as there is that it is isolated to this planet.
Of course it must be stated that it is also a matter of perception when it comes to people reporting encounters with E.T.s.
If you believe that E.T.s are visiting our planet then maybe some are humanoid and some aren't.
People are likely to say they saw an alien being if it has a human shape, but what would they say they saw if the alien's body was shaped like a baseball bat?? They'd just say they saw something that looked like a baseball bat and probably wouldn't know whether it was a living thing or not.
Also I have to say that there is the possibility that the reason WE are humanoid is because of them....

reply to post by seabhac-rua


In the millions, perhaps tens of millions of species on Earth, only one species got this intelligent, and in this form, and survived. That's some pretty low odds of repeating.

Also, again, this form existed before our intelligence. We were upright bipeds when we were as intelligent as dolphins and elephants. It can even be argued that we were when we were as intelligent as crows. Therefore that form did not lead to more intelligence.

Also, again, if you change anything, you do not get humans. If the gravity of a world was only 10% more, then trees would be shorter. Predators would eat primates, primates would go extinct. No humans. Less gravity? trees too tall. Not likely transition.

Also, although all mammals share similar skeletons and structures, this is pretty irrelevant to intelligence for that very reason. Because of all those species share those traits, but only one group ever evolved into primates, an Dna even smaller group any intelligence, there really is therefore no correlation.

In addition, if humanity wasn't in its climate, then they would not successfully develop at all, because the extremes that we went through, if pushed just a little harder, would lead to our extinction.


Thus, you'd either have exactly human species out there, or completely non human. There is no magic Vulcan in between.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by Gorman91
A planet with high pressure and low gravity (small gas giant), will enable an ocean-like oxygen atmosphere. You will be able to swim through essentially breathable air. perfect for a reptile octopus. Also, look at my links. The crow made a spear in under a minute. Also elephants make tools pretty fast too.

Oh my god, I can't stop laughing at the nonsense you write. Crows making spears, elephant tools? Are you so oblivious to the fact that there are limitations to these creatures? Sure, these sort of animals engage in problem-solving, and they can make use of tools too. That's a far cry though from succesfully arguing they are going to develop technology and fly into space.

Are you too dense to recognize the limitations? Just look at your ocean-like oxygen atmosphere. Do you think this environment enables serious technological development? You're just arguing everything is possible, your brain has fallen out.

reply to post by jclmavg


Limitation is what enables technological growth for intelligent species.

I can't believe I'm going to do this, but a video game character explained it better.

No limitation= no advancement. They are actually more likely to advance.

(1:30 ish)

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Gorman91]

They may not look human but could be very similar

Take a look at a bats skeleton for example




looks very similar to a human skeleton, just has longer fingers and toes.

But yet both look very different until you look under the skin.

also we use a low percentage of our brain, but do crows use almost 100% of theres? does anyone know?

The are a few reasons why we could be seeing or think we see humanoid aliens,

1. We are humanoid and have got to the point where we are capable of space travel so in essence we are humanoid aliens to the rest of the universe. Could this process not be repeated on other planets?

2. These "aliens" could just be a future form of our human species on Earth where they have evolved thousands of years in the future and if they have got the scientific knowledge of time travel they could just be travelling back to our time.

3. Using the model of the holographic universe it could be that our planet Earth and what has happened with humans here is repeating itself all over the universe with slight differences and some of these other "Earths" have the knowledge of and are capable of intergalactic travel.

4. Or it is just imagination and fantasy, and sci fi films and star trek were not creative enough and set the template for every alien being humanoid.

Who knows?!

reply to post by rutters1983


Humans use 100% of their brains. They cannot, however, use it all at once. They can only use 10% at any one given time. If you try to train your brain, you can overclock this to a bit higher and be able to, say, hear Beethoven's symphonies in all its glory in your head, without any audible device, or say, ready 1984 without any problem, whilst reciting the star spangle banner. These are simply using more than the section you are concentrating on.

However, it is known that crows and corvids have a higher level of microprocessor parts of the brain. In fact, in ratio, the human and crow brain have very similar proportions to higher cognitive abilities. In other words, they can use much more of their brain in any given moment then a human could. They also lack the same part of the brain as the part we use to solve problems. Essentially their brain is redesigned and re-purposed for higher levels of thought. This is unique, because it is theorized that the same thing is what allowed humans to develop as we did. We essentially developed other parts of the brain and re-purposed some other parts. This is why a human born without motor controls in their brain can still learn to walk by re-purposing other parts.

Effectively, your form has nothing to do with your intelligence. What makes you intelligent is your body to brain ratio, if your brain has the capacity to adapt, and your ability to exponentially grown and develop (where as animals are linear).

And as to the bat, you got my point. I am not saying that something like us underneath is impossible I am saying that it is highly improbable that an upright bipedal species is the only thing intelligence can come out of. because when numbers are applied, there have only been about a dozen or so species that walk upright and are bipedal. And of those, only 2 I can think of that still exist today: penguins and humans. And the abilities of even those two species, and their intelligence, is so far apart that to say upright bipedal design is what allows intelligence is faulty, because penguins sure as hell have yet to get beyond basic intelligences of birds and reptiles, where as a bipedal non upright species, the crow, has far exceeded intelligence capabilities one would expect from a non upright species. It is bipedal though. But again, consider this. Dinosaurs existed for hundreds of millions of years. Nothing of them shows any sign of going upright. They were bipedal, and they could stand upright to look higher, but never did they specialize in this, despite slowly growing more intelligent. There is no "final destination" for intelligent species. There is no target. There is no goal. Nothing in all of evolutionary history shows any evidence that as you grow more intelligent, you grow more human in appearance. It is a blatant lie. Indeed, nothing but humans in all the millions of species of earth ever evolved into this form that we call man. Nothing else seems to be heading in our direction. bipedal upright hominids are simply rare in evolution, where as intelligence happens whenever it feels like, in whatever natural selection chooses.

www.pulseplanet.com...

users.ox.ac.uk...

www.ebirdseed.com...



reply to post by Cool for cats


Actually, interdimensions are more likely than similar evolution. Think about it. If you take the infinite space of the universe and take the limited space of mass, it is very possible that we are the only intelligence with this form out there. However, apply that to infinite universes, and there is a higher probability of another dimension evolving something like us then there is in our own universe.

Also, humans are locked into place evolution-wise. Any change results in the uncanny valley factor for the rest of the species. In other words, humans will never evolve again. We find beauty in our form and in our ways. Even Eugenics movements, desiring to further evolve humanity, never desired to evolve physical appearance beyond basic perfection of body ratios. They much more valued evolving the inside than the outside.

Very simply, humanity cannot evolve unless a group breaks off, finds some planet on the other side of the galaxy, and biologically change themselves through genetic engineering.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by reject

 

A wing of a bird and bat do not even have the same structure of skeleton. And they look only the same on the outside. Also, this is not flying, this is civilization, growth and development, and invention. The mind is for that, not the body. This is why we are not the only tool makers on Earth.

what are you squawking on about? that's precisely the point of convergent evolution. They're totally different but they came up biologically with the same solution. they only look the same and have the same function but they're not even the slightest bit related.

somewhere out there an insect, reptilian, or fish species may have been the one to take on humanoid form become intelligent and became dominant; hypothetically, that is

reply to post by reject


No. Humanoid aliens would be more long the lines of Thylacine versus lions or something. That is the entire body plan. one part, such as a wing, does not qualify to compare towards humanoid aliens.

And again, in order for your point to be valid, there must be multiple intelligences seemingly evolving "towards" human form. Instead, what the real proof shows, is individual evolutions developing individual intelligences with individual forms not related to each other. If, in fact, the fossil records of crows, dolphins, wales, elephants, and apes all showed lineages slowly looking more human like, then you would have a point. However they do not, and in fact sow the exact opposite.

And as a basic law of energies in evolution, it is easier for a species to go extinct then to drastically change forms. Ergo, change anything, just one small thing, and it is more likely primates go extinct and something else takes over.

You seem to be viewing humanoids as superior based on a "we got here first" argument. This is simply not a valid argument. Reptiles were here first, but they did not win. However, they did generate vast intelligences in parrots and crows when compared to their ancestors. Mammals were here even longer. Take a look at the mammal-like reptiles from before the dinosaurs. They essentially had human-like skeletons, but never went anywhere with it.


There simply exists no connection between upright bipedal form and higher intelligence. We simply existed at the right time and place and got lucky. Anything else in our position would currently be dominating the Earth. But we were in Africa starving and dieing. No on else was. So we win not because we were first, but because of luck, and nothing more. Natural selection favored our form in a desert and dieing earth. Anywhere else and we would not chose.

That's a fact few recall. the fact that humans were suppose to go extinct. We simply were lucky.