im incredibly sick of christians slapping a satanic sticker on everything they dont agree with

you don't get to say "burrrrn" when it's a semantic argument. that's fairly petty.

if you look at it etymologically, Atheism is pretty obviously derived from the Greek prefix 'A-', meaning "not" or "lacking", and the noun "theos", or "God". It means "lacking [belief in] God(s)".

An Atheist's beliefs do not state "The Christian God does not exist." They state, more or less, "My view of the Universe is such that, given the empirical information we have about its nature and functioning, I do not believe that there is a supernatural governing force which created and which controls said Universe."

You do not believe in Odin, Horus, Baal, Cthulhu, Brahma, Manitou, David Koresh, or countless other historical Gods, yet your worldview is not defined by this fact. We Atheists merely add one more name to that list.


Just as your Christian beliefs are not defined by your lack of faith in Odin or Cthulhu, so are our Atheist beliefs not defined by our lack of faith in Yahweh.

Originally posted by Rollo
Guys can any one intelligently explain what you believe a 'Christian' is?!?!?

A follower of Christ.

Next question.

Originally posted by the illuminator
i have to say this thread is getting ridiculous. we are all believers in something. (even athiests) dont try to say your not.

What are Atheists believers in? Just curious.

Originally posted by ashanu90
reply to post by Rollo

 

k.... i think i get the jist of the post about how christians need to get their act together and follow their own teachings correctly,
but you seem to refer to me as a "believer" i am an athiest actually
but yeah good post

[edit on 28-4-2010 by ashanu90]

no I dont mean you as a believer, it's that you do the same thing well maybe not you but for the sake of a tag non-believers..

You are all as judgmental, opinionated rude have a good streak of zealotry in you all too....
That ok, I dont mind nor care, I can either interact as I am doing quite rationally or walk away and forget about it....as you all can
The point is christian should show more Christ like behavior in respects to being judgmental....yer like I say it's ok to say or argue debate Gods law and what we know to be right and wrong...but thats as much as you can do really....dont shy away from people or places because of prudishness or rudeness or being judgmental..hold on to love and be friends to all, even if they are doing wrong....it should effect you in any way and you are right in saying what you know to be Gods rights and wrong
Then when tell the person you are damning so they know it doesnt effect your friendship nor does it diminish your interaction or love or anything to them...
Like I said I was open with my lesbian friends by saying look I dont agree with homosexuality in any way or condone it because I believe ............etc BUT it's not my role to force you to change, believe me or even agree with me...It doesn't effect our friendship/realtionship /interaction/feelings/love/ or treatment in any way....
One girl was a bit off put but after explaining more she understood and that was it no animosity at all....she appreciated my honesty and understood my views.

I know for unbelievers it's not always like how I explain but let me say it is the way it should be....
And even if it's not...use your God given right and exercise your free will and either stop reading walk away or interact in civil manner with some more knowledge of the true ways of the Christian faith...please

But for non-believers please stop whinning WHY?
Because you do the same to belivers and other members of the population and you either blinded by the that fact or really dont understand you are doing it or are maliciously doing it...

this is not an attack on anybody at all just had to try and be a little more clearer...

I hope is the real faith of following Christ re-emerges from the eclipse of things like the churches, misguided concepts and beliefs on what a christian is or acts or looks etc, and also the Christians set in the old school damnation or modern ho har Pentecostal, or tv evangelist etc shroud that has crippled the real faith.

I still go to a Pentecostal church but not so often any more as no one has reach enlightenment of the new breed or the revival of the pure spirit of being a follower of Christ.
I think it's slowly starting to change but as with everything in this world..egos, pride , change ,attitudes, reputations etc are always the hardest bond to break....

And for anyone that feels they want to become a follower of Jesus...you dont need to say a special pray in a certain church.....it's a personal relationship that can start as easy as asking Jesus to help and be par t of your life.



[edit on 28-4-2010 by Rollo]

Ive always wondered what satanic and demonic meant. I believe it is simply the ego manifesting more fallacies of what reality is or is not.

What if I was to tell you that all you know and think you know is not.
Would you beLIEve me?
I mean you believe in other nonsense why not mine?

reply to post by Rollo


i have to say that was a very understandable post
good for you you even get a star

i suppose we are all hypocrites to an extent,. im pissed at religion for zealotry but i get a little zealous myself,
however it gets realy old seeing posts left and right "bible this" "bible that" "your going to hell" "satan this" "satan that" "your satanic"
"devil music" "don piper"

it gets really old it drives me nuts and im not going out of my way to find these posts there on nearly every thread on this site
and i cant help but be frustrated that people dispute these things as absolute fact

i like rock music, i like violent videogames, i like scary stories.
i know these things are not satanic
i realize however that someone may take the messages in these things way to seriously and act out, that is not the fault of rock, games, or stories.
the people who act out on these things probably belong on the caste of jack ass

just because people are religious they listen to a certain type of music and become less religious doesnt mean the music is satanic
it simply means that person is now more open to ideas
whats wrong with that?
well ive heard one christian arguement "a free thinker is satans slave"
thats total bs
thats part of the controlling aspect ive seen with religion

i believe this thread has derailed

Originally posted by superluminal11
Ive always wondered what satanic and demonic meant. I believe it is simply the ego manifesting more fallacies of what reality is or is not.

What if I was to tell you that all you know and think you know is not.
Would you beLIEve me?
I mean you believe in other nonsense why not mine?

i like that way of thinking star for you

Boy there sure is a lot of christian bashing going on in this thread. You guys must all be possessed by satan!

Originally posted by SevenThunders
Boy there sure is a lot of christian bashing going on in this thread. You guys must all be possessed by satan!

How seriously do you believe that Satan directly possesses and motivates people who oppose Christianity?

I am genuinely curious.

reply to post by The Parallelogram


when i said burrn i was joking..i wasnt being petty and he knows that coz hes cool.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


weve been over this. the belief that there is no God. or diety

Originally posted by the illuminator
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

weve been over this. the belief that there is no God. or diety

That is not true. Go back and look at definition number 2 and try again.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


semantics...

Stick with that strategy...you never lose!

LOL

People with weak minds and timid hearts, afraid to face life on their own will cling to anything that makes them feel safe and watched over.

For the christian that means anything that upsets their feeling of security is inherently evil and is to be written off as such at all costs.

Failure to do so could lead to unsettling conclusions. Such as they alone are responsible for their own lives and destinies.

Originally posted by Rollo
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

semantics...

Stick with that strategy...you never lose!

LOL

It is not semantics, it is reality. Christians only seem to be able to see Atheism through a Christian lens. Sorry but it aint so. Atheism is not a BELIEF in the opposite of something. It just not having that belief at all. Atheism is not a belief system. It is not a belief in anything. By definition it is not what Christians want to say it is.

Sorry. Using a new blackberry. Getting the hang of it but not there yet. Anyway I cleaned the post up some and posted it again. This time I put "MY OP, YOU, and ME" infront of each section so it would be easier for you.
Hope it helped
[edit on 29-4-2010 by Quadrivium]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Quadrivium]

reply to post by Quadrivium


I would really love to respond but I am having a hard time sifting between what are my words and what are yours. Sorry.

reply to post by The Parallelogram


I will give a little analogy. Try to keep an open mind and understand an alternative worldview from the norm. The complaint that christians label too many things as satanic is similar to complaining that a foreigner is accusing people of being American whilst they are visiting America.

An operating premise of christianity is that the human race has been placed behind enemy lines. The very throne of satan is on this planet. He has usurped rulership of this place, and everyone who lives here starts out as his subject.

Therefore it is hardly surprising that the culture and power structures all reflect his will. He possesses and acts through his many subjects at will and none dare or can oppose him, unless they have access to the power of God.

A christian, on the other hand has renounced his citizenship in the world system and claims Jesus Christ as his Lord. He therefore becomes an alien and a subversive element in the otherwise satanic world system.

Thus it is not surprising that the christian sees the devil's work in most every aspect of human culture. That's because it is in fact the devils work. Most of the cultures, civilizations, entertainments, various thought patterns are all marked for eventual destruction. Just as men may destroy a slum to renovate a city, God is going to destroy the devils work to create his kingdom. That will involve the removal of every vain work of man that has been inspired by the devil. ie pretty much everything you see right now.

The whole system is like a pathetic slum compared to the kingdom of God. It's like we were raised in a Sao Paulo garbage dump, as many orphans are, and have no idea of the beautiful world that surrounds us. The primary building material of these kingdoms are mens' souls. The physical improvements follow accordingly.

Originally posted by Quadrivium

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by Quadrivium
MY OP- Here is where you took over the burden of proof my friend. Instead of asking me to prove it you called it lies. This gives the impression that you know facts that would dispute what I said.

YOU- I took over nothing. You are completely giving up. If I know facts that might dispute what you said...I need your facts first to dispute them, dont I? So...you need to FACTUALLY BACK UP YOUR CLAIM.


ME-....Ok I guess if you really want, we can play your game a little longer, I will play along, for now.
I will try to type slowly so you can better understand lol.
First I made the statement that the bible is historically correct. There are many events, people, places and land marks in the bible that are also written about outside of the bible (or something close to that effect).
If you would have simply asked for the proof I would have provided it. You chose to attack instead by calling it blatant lies.
This as you know would put me on the defense, and try to cast me off the current topic....

MY OP- You can not prove a negative? A student of folk logic perhaps?
You can prove a negative, and it’s easy, too. For one thing, a real, actual law of logic is a negative, namely the law of non-contradiction.

YOU- I am not going to sit here and watch you flail around in this weak complete missunderstanding of logic. You cannot prove your claim so instead you are going to pretend it is my problem.


ME-...You may be able to fool some of your buddies, on this site, about your "complete understanding of logic" but by reading your post you and I know better do we not?....

YOU-Sorry but if you had any truth in what you said, you would not be arguing about who needs to prove what. You cannot prove your claim so you want me to prove it wrong. That is not how logic works. You made the claim, prove it.

MY OP- This law states that a proposition cannot be both true and not true. Nothing is both true and false. Furthermore, you can prove this law. It can be formally derived from the empty set using provably valid rules of inference. (I’ll spare you the boring details). One of the laws of logic is a provable negative. Wait… this means we’ve just proven that it is not the case that one of the laws of logic is that you can’t prove a negative. So we’ve proven yet another negative! In fact, ‘you can’t prove a negative’ is a negative so if you could prove it true, it wouldn’t be true! Uh-oh.
I said that the bible is historically correct. Many people places and land marks are written about in other writings from around the same time. I did not say that the Red Sea Parted, that fire rained down from Heaven, or that the sun stood still in the sky. These things I do believe though through FAITH.

YOU-I also asked you if this made Stephen King books historically accurate. The state of Maine does indeed exist and most of his stories take place there.

What is the difference?


ME-.... The difference is that we are speaking of the bible, not Stephen King, Harry Potter or "Christine".
They may be other thread, concerning those though, maybe you could share your extensive knowledge of them there.....

MY OP-I can and will give several of many references to back up what I said just to make you happy

1) Flavius Josephus (c. 37–c. 100), a Jew and Roman citizen who worked under the patronage of the Flavians, wrote the Antiquities of the Jews in 93 AD. In these works, Jesus is mentioned twice. The one directly concerning Jesus has come to be known as the Testimonium Flavianum.
In the first passage, called the Testimonium Flavianum, it is writtcalled it en:
About this time came Jesus, a wise man, if indeed it is appropriate to call him a man. For he was a performer of paradoxical feats, a teacher of people who accept the unusual with pleasure, and he won over many of the Jews and also many Greeks. He was the Christ. When Pilate, upon the accusation of the first men amongst us, condemned him to be crucified, those who had formerly loved him did not cease to follow him, for he appeared to them on the third day, living again, as the divine prophets foretold, along with a myriad of other marvellous things concerning him. And the tribe of the Christians, so named after him, has not disappeared to this day.[44]In the second, brief mention, Josephus calls James "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ."[48] The great majority of scholars consider this shorter reference to Jesus to be substantially authentic,[49] although a minority has raised doubt
2) Pliny the Younger (c. 61 - c. 112), the provincial governor of Pontus and Bithynia, wrote to Emperor Trajan c. 112 concerning how to deal with Christians, who refused to worship the emperor, and instead worshiped "Christus".
Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ — none of which those who are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do — these I thought should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshiped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ.[60]

YOU-I can do the same thing with "Christine" but I am not about to start a religion about a car with a mind of its own.


ME-....Once again find another thread if you want to bring in unrelated material....


YOU-You seem smart enough to know what a load of BS this claim really is.

'The bible mentions nothing! Holy crap I have actually seen nothing so the bible must be true!!!!!!'

or 'Hey the bible mentions some places on a map, so does this Clive Barker book. Now how do I choose which one to spend my life following since they are both EXACTLY AS HISTORICALLY ACCURATE. Hellbound Heart or the bible...Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Save your preaching for someone who is willing to be preached at. You have proven yourself to be no more than a liar here. You make a claim about your god and when asked to prove it, you just get defensive, obtuse, and go as far off into left field with your answer as you can.

ME-.....There seem to be some similarities between the way you debate and some of my progressive liberal friends. They explained it to me once, learned it in college actually.
1) Attack- get them on the defensive. Try to confuse them.
2) Debunk- if possible get them to admit they are not sure or if you have proof, show them they are wrong. If you do not have proof follow step three.
3)Smear- if you can not prove it then take away their credibility. Accuse them, abuse them, call them names do anything to try and make them seem as if they do not know what they are talking about. Even if you understand what they are saying you should still be critical of every spoken word.
I must admit, this does have surprisingly effective result in most cases....


YOU-Why should anyone believe anything about your god if when asked to prove any of it, all you can do is pout like a child and demand others prove you wrong instead.

I am sorry you made a claim you can not back up.

I am really sorry you have no clue where to begin trying to prove what you stated is a fact.

I am even more sorry that asking you to prove what you say causes you so much turmoil.

Maybe you should not make claims like that to people that might question you if simple questions do so much damage to your faith.

Can you back up your claim, or not? It is that simple.

You want to play philosophy games instead? Fine. I am simply asking you to prove your claim. That is all. I will even retract my counter statement claiming your claim is false. Happy? I took it back. Now the burden of proof only has one place to be - YOU. No debating it anymore. I am making no claims. You made claims. Can you prove them?

ME-.....I have backed up my statement. Your best argument seemed to be about other authors, books and movies that you claim are historically accurate as well. This shows that you agree the bible is HISTORICALY accurate. Like I said in a previous post, I was not trying to prove the stories were true, Those come by faith. I claimed that people, places, landmarks of the bible can also be found in other writings from the same time period and gave proof. My statement was not a religious one and I do not remember preaching. If you read those things into it and took offence then I am sorry. Thank you sir and have a wonderful day
[edit on 28-4-2010 by K J Gunderson]

Text Red

reply to post by SevenThunders


i think your wrong, i think the devil and hell were made up to scare people into subscribing to the christian faith

nothin is satanic because their isnt a satan, now i do have to call things by definition satanic, if someon worships satan they are satanic, nothing else
no one is possessed by satan, youve been brainwashed to believe that and scare the rest of us to subscribe to your faith

fight your programing! be free!
i wish you a favorable statistical outcome