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Southern Arizona is a war zone

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posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 11:32 AM

"Southern Arizona is a war zone controlled by outside criminal forces"

Arizona ranchers urge crackdown on border violence

Ranchers fed up with border violence in southern Arizona are demanding action to close the border and restore order in what they called a lawless area ruled by criminals.

A ranching group delivered a plan at an event at the Capitol for confronting drug and human smuggling, extortion and kidnapping and eliminating the murders that go with them. Their demands come in the wake of the slaying of Robert Krentz, 58, on his ranch near Douglas last month.

But ranchers say the problem has been festering for years.

"Southern Arizona is a war zone controlled by outside criminal forces," said Patrick Bray of the Arizona Cattlemen's Association.

The organization's 18-point plan for attacking crime along the border asks local, state and federal agencies for assistance. Members said they don't care which side of the political aisle it comes from. The full text of the plan is available at www.azcattlemens

Ideas include prosecuting as a felon anyone coming into the U.S. illegally, banning them from ever working or living in the country, authorizing the use of force to intercept vehicles and aircraft entering the country illegally, putting active military and National Guard units along the border, and adding more than 3,000 Border Patrol agents in Arizona by 2011.

Ginger Niesen of Phoenix was there to back the ranchers, saying theirs is a difficult enough way to make a living without the threat of attack.

"They're sitting ducks out there," Niesen said. "They're scared in their homes."

Gary Thrasher, a Hereford cattle veterinarian, said the glossy Arizona Highways magazine images of southern Arizona no longer are realistic. He said the border has effectively been moved north, into southern Arizona, and the territory has been "ceded to a bunch of criminals."

Douglas-area rancher Don Kimble described an invasion of armed people hauling contraband.

"The last 10 years, it's gotten steadily worse," Kimble said.

The group announced its plan at a midday news conference at the state Capitol on Tuesday. The event was supposed to be held outdoors, but protesters opposing new immigration measures moving through the Legislature banged on drums, chanted and shouted into bullhorns, forcing the event inside to a state Senate meeting room.

The protesters said they were there to oppose state Sen. Russell Pearce, R-Mesa, and his immigration legislation.


Phoenix Number Two Kidnapping Capital as Drug Cartel Wars Intensify

Phoenix, kidnap-for-ransom capital

Torture a hallmark of Phoenix's drug kidnappings (graphic)

Border violence spills over killing Americans

Mexican Drug Cartel Violence Spills Over, Alarming U.S

Violence Spills Across U.S.-Mexico Border

[edit on 25-4-2010 by zzombie]

+3 more 
posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 11:46 AM
I think it's time for a 6th branch of the military: the United States Border Guard Service

- would absorb the existing US Coast Guard and US Border Patrol into a single agency with both military and law enforcement status. The maritime branch would basically continue to operate as the US Coast Guard does today. The land branch would operate in squad and platoon size mobile patrols via foot, horseback (bring back the horse cavalry in a mounted infantry role) vehicle (inc armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles), and helicopter and in company sized defensive positions with several regimental combat team sized units situated some miles behind the actual border for quick reaction forces or for dealing with rogue Mexican Army units that "accidentally" cross the border.

posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 11:50 AM
reply to post by ChrisF231

You can't have them as a US Military Branch. The US military are forbidden from being used on US soil, for policing purposes.

Besides ,if you did that, we'd have the Army patrolling every state highway. This would just lead to more abuse from the military and police forces.

That being said there is obviously a problem in Arizona, there are a multitude of solutions that could be put into place. IMO they should increase the Boarder Patrol and use the National Guard as a contigency plan.

Either way, something has got to happen.


posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 11:55 AM
reply to post by tothetenthpower

Then how does the Coast Guard do it? This would simply be the USCG and the USBP merged into one. All they would need is an act of Congress exempting them from Posse Comiatus as was done for the US Coast Guard back in 1877 (when it was still called the US Revenue Cutter Service).

[edit on 25-4-2010 by ChrisF231]

posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 11:56 AM
Arizona is in the headlines this week but its in all four border states... Southern Calif is tops in home invasion, here in New Mexico you don't dare leave a car unlocked or it be gone in 60 seconds... this time last year the found the bodies of 13 murdered girls out on the west side of town... the working theory is there were forced to be drug mules then killed to keep their silence...Right now over in Texas the local police in El Paso have been told there is a bounty on them, dead.
speaking of bounties last week I posted a story of a cartel posting a $250,000 bounty on border patrol agents...

no its not just Arizona, its everywhere and been getting worse over the past decade

posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 11:59 AM
reply to post by tothetenthpower

Bush repealed posse comitatus, which prohibited military from enforcing civilian law i.e. makes martial law possible.

The last thing America needs is the military enforcing civilian laws, but they can and should protect the border.

posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 12:07 PM
reply to post by zzombie

Bush DID NOT repeal Posse Comiatus. He simply changed a few words so that certain specialized units (medical, military police, engineers, etc) could be used in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or natural disaster by executive order rather then a congressional mandate.

Also, the Supreme Court has ruled that the military can perform border patrol duties as it is not directly considered to be law enforcement work. Indeed, most nations use their military or some form of paramilitary force to handle border security.

posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 12:09 PM

Originally posted by zzombie
reply to post by tothetenthpower

Bush repealed posse comitatus, which prohibited military from enforcing civilian law i.e. makes martial law possible.

The last thing America needs is the military enforcing civilian laws, but they can and should protect the border.

I wasn't aware he'd actually done that already. Strange.


+3 more 
posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 12:18 PM
Amazing how fast my finger can find the flag button. Hint fricken hint people.

As I've said before, if the feds don't like it they can cram it. Our citizens are being subject to this crap, and the feds don't have to live there. Put Obama and his family on a ranch in Arizona for a few months, and maybe THEN they'll care after a few of them get toasted.

Nah, I doubt it. They'd just move back to DC and keep playing golf.

I agree with every single point laid out in that plan, and it ought to be signed into law and state enforced regardless of the feds. The feds are too busy doing what? Hell if I know! But protecting our borders isn't it.

Maybe we should all start a donation drive for weapons to go to the border citizens. Like LOTS of them. Call someone up on the border, get to be their friend and send them a gun, a rifle, a grenade, a shoulder fired missile, a tank, some 50 cals, and maybe even a nuke or two.

posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 12:21 PM
what needs to happem i the fbi and the national guard need to find the criminals and just slaughter them the fbi has done it before so why not?

posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 12:21 PM
reply to post by zzombie

It was never an issue...
Posse Comitatus prohibits the use of troops for domestic law enforcement. Border security is not domestic law enforcement. It is protecting our nation from foreign intruders.

For a period of time in back in the 1980's then later in the 1990s, United States Marines and Army personnel were stationed along the U.S.-Mexico border. not for long but while there were there all crossing in those sectors stopped!

There are more than seventeen thousand border patrol agents, however they only have effective control of less than 700 miles of the 1,954 miles of total border... little wonder some half a million illegal crossing are made each year.

I once read that by placing a guard every 500-1000 feet along the 2000 mile border with Mexico. it would effectively stop all crossings and its cost would be a tiny fraction of what we already spent on fences and cameras and other things that don't seem to be working...

Maybe we could get Obama to make this part of his Jobs for Americans package? But wait... last september we had this wonderful headline
Administration Will Cut Border Patrol Deployed on U.S-Mexico Border Well what do know seems Obama thinks the bigger problem is along the U.S.-Canada border imagine that...

[edit on 25-4-2010 by DaddyBare]

+12 more 
posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 12:25 PM
Wouldn't it be cheaper all round for each state to build a bloody great wall along the border?

You'd still have to deal with illegal flights, but it would stop most of the problem.
Any aircraft flying illegally over the wall should be just shot down, same as here in australia, we can't build a wall but I bet if we sunk a few illegal boats they would soon stop coming.

Radical I know but is there any other viable option?
A country must defend it's borders and it's about time the governments of the world got some balls and stopped listening to the 'goody twoshoes, whinging dogooders' who are the cause of many, many of our modern societal woes.

Build a wall, shoot anyone trying to get over it, they'll soon stop trying and then their own countries government will have to 'wake up' and do something about the reasons why these people are illegally running off to a so called better life. (which in most cases it isn't)

I expect to be flamed for this, but I for one am tired of the 'soft approach' and 'political correctness' .


posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 12:28 PM
reply to post by ChrisF231

Thanks for clearing that up..... also it appears that: "In 2008, these changes were repealed in their entirety" reverting to the previous wording.

posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 01:24 PM
reply to post by PennyQ

Just realize anyone who flames you for this is an absolute idiot. Truer words have never been spoken, political correctness and diversity will be the end of us........

posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 01:56 PM
Legalize and steal the criminals market out from under them. Take away their means to make money. Force them into upheaval where they have no money to pay their debts or the people who work for them.

Violence will engender more hatred and create a situation that could be worse down the road.

across the board legalization would have its own problems but at least the problem is internal then and can be dealt with as such. As long the criminals have a market with high demand in their grasp, they will do what they can to maintain it. Getting rid of one cartel leaves a power vaccuum with more violence to follow as the market war erupts and a new group takes its place.

In the short term I agree with the steps they want to take if only to ensure the safety of those living there. If we want the problem of criminal warfare and illegal sales of contraband gone then we need to end the war on drugs and take it all out of their hands.After all, a drug cartel doesn't care about age or I.D, they don't worry about quality control and they certainly don't settle their disputes in the courts.

Just my two cents. I could be wrong.


[edit on 25-4-2010 by thebulldog]

posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 02:52 PM

Originally posted by PennyQ

stopped listening to the 'goody twoshoes, whinging dogooders' who are the cause of many, many of our modern societal woes.

You know it's a sad, sad world when it comes to this but in your defense, you're just being realistic. It's only conveinient, predictable of human nature.
I personnaly believe that this world wasn't meant to be an utopia either, as long as the elements of defection plagues it.
But be careful, building walls and bitching about diversity may not bring what you hope for neither. The problem must be identified in its roots.
Obviously, the one who created all the human demons to fester misery on this planet did not entended for us to live in peace and harmony neither.

What does that have to do with the current political event you'd say? Well a lot my dear! Never neglect the bigger picture, if you can!

posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 02:59 PM
reply to post by thebulldog

Well, you're definitely not wrong about targetting the "market" also to solve the problem. Where does that demand comes from and why. However just ligalization of the drug may not get rid of the criminal dealers and pushers.
It should be more some sort of social awareness program.

[edit on 25-4-2010 by Exv8densez]

posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 03:33 PM
reply to post by tothetenthpower

Technically they would not be policing but rather keeping things from outside our boarders from entering. Otherwise known as keeping invaders from invading.

posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 03:35 PM
Department of Homeland Security

This entity needs a major shot in the rear. Created solely to protect the borders and interiors of this nation. The Border Security division is where this all starts. They have tied their hands, bound their feet and cut out their eyes and tongues, only to then tell them to go stand the line and protect the country from illegal border crossings, both north and south.

The USCG patrols US Controlled water and they stop a lot of sea born alien travel. They sink boats, stop drug and human trafficing, and have been a great force for the protection of the US Coast Line.

DHS needs to give the same abilities to the USBGS as well and stop slapping them on the face for slapping illegals on the hand.

posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 03:40 PM
this will gradually spread north . As it does the economy will begin to decay and thus more people will become disparate and more crime will spread like a cancer. I say America and even Canada join the Mexican military eradicating these cartels . But i guess we should be more worried about tea party terrorist instead or what Tiger Woods is doing .

[edit on 25-4-2010 by OpusMarkII]

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