Well for one, the second law of thermo dynamics was created before oil was even used for energy.

Also are you saying you can create something from nothing? That would be a neat trick. Remember, EVERYTHING is energy. If you could just magically make energy appear you could (in theory) also make matter appear, since all matter is is energy.

Anyways, no one has yet shown the second law to be wrong. You're welcome to work on that perpetual motion machine though.

well there is a way to create a propellantless engine through gravitic turbine technology.basically this is waht UFOs and next gen planes are rumoured to have.they use electromagnetic fields to produce a gravity nullifying effect on a small area.thus meaning that there is no inertia or G forces on the area.they run using superconductor magnets (or something like that lol) and they use their magnetic charges to spin and produce the desired effect.so after you move them into the right place they go on and stay on until you move em apart.

Originally posted by Quest
Also are you saying you can create something from nothing?

yes. experiments in particle accelerators prove that quanta just wink in and out of existence. this is why the paradigm of energy has changed from particles/waves to fields of interaction. so, if time, for example, is just another form of energy, then it would be possible to convert time energy into other forms. this leaves the law of thermodynamics intact, AND accounts for 'free' energy.

The second law only applies to a closed system, right? If the universe is infinite then it wouldn't be closed; would have an infinite amount of energy to work with.

At any rate, the theoretical virtual particles keeps it in the realm of possibility.


[Edited on 5-6-2004 by Rev_Godslapper]

Originally posted by Rev_Godslapper
The second law only applies to a closed system, right? If the universe is infinite then it wouldn't be a closed; would have an infinite amount of energy to work with.

At any rate, the theoretical virtual particles keeps it in the realm of possibility.

hey, are you in 'the christ punchers', rev_godslapper? great signature. so true.
i agree with this post. BWAHAHAHAHA!

In my opinion, it's quite possible that the oil industries are restricting the development of technologies that could rival theirs in terms of energy production. I'm not so sure that there is some grand conspiracy out there to completely abolish all attempts at creating exotic energy production techniques, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if oil companies were perhaps watching for patents that could potentially lead to devices capable of replacing oil. If they discovered any patents that seemed to have a great deal of validity, perhaps a request could be made to the inventor to have rights to that particular technology. I don't think anyone is interested in completely ignoring advanced methods of energy production, although it may perhaps be in the interest of some to prolong the usage of oil as a means of energy production for as long as possible.

Another thing, I don't really like the term "free energy". I am immediately skeptical of any claims of such technology existing, and I believe that if there is any truth to any of the devices purported to harness such energy, that it is just some form of matter/energy conversion that we don't yet understand. I remember reading in one of Stephen Hawking's books about ground state fluctuations that could potentially lend some credence to the whole zero-point energy theory. This had something to do with the existinance of some form of energy existing not in space, but as a result of the properties of space itself. It's been quite a long time since I read about it though, and only partially understood it at the time so it is entirely possible that I'm remembering it inaccurately. Has anyone else read The Universe in a Nutshell who could perhaps clarify the concept?

I also don't like the idea of the Universe being infinite, it has just never seemed right to me. The expansion of the Universe has been observed since the 1920's when Edwin Hubble observed the red shift of light from distant galaxies in accordance with the dopplar effect. How is it that the Universe can expand if it is infinite?

This has always been a subject of interest to me. Sadly I do not have a degree in physics but that does not eliminate a commom sense approach to the science. We base our science on laws that have not been proven but rather on laws that have not been disproven. Like the ability to create energy. Who says you cannot create energy? Just because we haven't figured it out yet. Look at the universe. It came from somewhere. If you believe in the big bang theory you must believe in the idea that energy/matter can be created otherwise how would the big bang have happened? What exploded? Where did it come from? Look at the stars. Look at the energy they produce over the life of the star. Take something the size of a pea and try to make it light your house for a thousand years. Can't do it can you? Basically that is what our sun does. I have no doubt that we can create free energy. It will just take time to figure out how.

This is what I came to this site for .

I posted a link to SEAS energy project , but it had been posted before and got deleted . Look it up yourselves just in case this time .

The virtual particle aspect has renewed my interest , as I felt slighted by people like Dennis Lee , Joseph Newman , Bruce Perault who have never given up the goods but keep selling shares . a couple of these guys have claimed to have visions from God , and have been told to help mankind .
It seems that a machine that would do as some of them say should be it's own reward because if we had it , money would have little or no purpose for many feul related BIL$$ . Electricity , transportation , heat , AC etc. and would help clean up all this industrial waste that has magically appeared after only 100 years of automotive use , and electric production . they would be rich and admired men to bring this information forth , and be quite comfortable for the remainder of there stay here on earth , however.....

Most have a reason why there invention won't work at the seminars they sell tickets to(because they don't work !) , or talk technical BS to the layman and twist definitions of power , energy , tourque , COP's and such that they are easily believed to be the altruistic souls they claim to be .

Check out the SEAS energy projet , they have the right idea about how to get legitamate conspiracyand fraud free inventions out there ,. They took money investments to set up shop , and no longer will untill they have a verified a working machine liscened and able to be produced . I think the right road is the energy in the vacume , or magnets to be harnessed some how . I think some ole boys at the turn of last century had some working models of such things , and were conspied against . Many other thoughts on this , might have to start a new thread to be more concise .

I dont think so much of free energy, but more in the lines of utilizing currently overlooked forms that could produce something that would convert to cheap energy in the form that we use.

I haven't done much research into this theory, but I remember learning about P1V1/T1=P2V2/T2. I know its not a perfect model and I'm not sure if it can be used in the case of fusion.
But if the temperature was room temperature, how much pressure and volume would be needed, and assuming you had a small volume and could condense it enough, could you spur fusion of all those particles?
Maybe someone has some easy RELIABLE links about this for the layman...

Or maybe the ideal gas law would apply to creating cold fusion? PV=nRT
so then T=PV/nR
R is a constant, and volume, number of moles, and temperature can be fixed so that a specific amount of pressure is needed to make hydrogen molecules combine.
But the problem has always been that the amount of energy needed to create the parameters is more than what is released.
Any speculations, i guess zero point energy could work, lasers?, sonic waves?

Yes, particles do pop in and out of existance, these are called virtual particles. The problem is they are bound by time and the conservation of energy. They form with an oppositly charged anti-particle moving in the opposite direction so that everything is accounted for. They also only last small amounts of time as they pop out of existance again. Steven Hawking was the first to realize that at the edge of an event horizon this would force one partcle into oblivion while the other one still exist. This effect is now called Hawking Radiation. But even in the extreme case of a black hole energy is still conserved. As the one particle rushes away from the event horizon the other falls into the hole causing it to LOSE mass/energy. Over time the black hole actually shrinks due to this hawking radiation. Because new energy is entering into existance and its counter part is being wiped out the universe evens things out by shrinking the black hole's mass. This is is why blackholes "evaporate" over time.

So, when you have extreme things like singularities changing in a highly odd fashion to make sure you aren't getting something for nothing, i find it funny that people think some guy is going to make a machine that does exactly that.

Now i'm not saying its isn't possible that science could be wrong, or that humans may find a loophole, but to date it hasn't happened ad even nature in its extreme doesn't do it.

Things like stars DO exist and show the potential energy output of fussion, and I think time and money spent looking for energy is better spent trying to make fussion a sustainable system. If people wish to try to get something for nothing, best wishes, but everything we know about reality at this point says it is a futile attempt.

I eat oil. Oil...YUM!

You do understand the Laws of Thermodynamics are statistical laws, right?