Goldman executives cheered housing market's decline, newly released e-mails show

reply to post by GreenBicMan


I share your disgust in the elected officials we have running this country (Guam to tip over due to too many people on one side of it?).

But I (maybe incorrectly) think the blame rests on the shoulders of the voters.. after all, no congressman/president ever got into office by force -- they were elected.


I think the best way to fix this is to put time and energy into educating voters.. but all that costs money, and voters are usually busy people (got those jobs and what not).

What's worse is that they have media like Fox News whispering nonsense and misinformation into their ears every day -- and Fox DISCOURAGES listening to other networks -- because other networks have a "liberal agenda," or whatever.. It's like a cult..

Anyways, these people will never be able to make informed decisions on who to vote for, because they don't have any information.. We should try to change that, or subvert democracy and take the decision out of their hands.. I don't think there's a third choice


And btw, subverting democracy is exactly what propaganda was created for.. So when I say "subvert democracy," I'm not advocating violence or fraud.

reply to post by Kaytagg


That is why I am thinking if these officials actually represent the intelligence of the population they are representing we have major problems.

That and the media is controlled. Anyone remember 2008 Ron Paul Campaign?

sociology.ucsc.edu...

How are these huge gains possible for the top 400? It's due to cuts in the tax rates on capital gains and dividends, which were down to a mere 15% in 2007 thanks to the tax cuts proposed by the Bush Administration and passed by Congress in 2003. Since almost 75% of the income for the top 400 comes from capital gains and dividends, it's not hard to see why tax cuts on income sources available to only a tiny percent of Americans mattered greatly for the high-earning few.

In terms of types of financial wealth, the top one percent of households have 38.3% of all privately held stock, 60.6% of financial securities, and 62.4% of business equity. The top 10% have 80% to 90% of stocks, bonds, trust funds, and business equity, and over 75% of non-home real estate. Since financial wealth is what counts as far as the control of income-producing assets, we can say that just 10% of the people own the United States of America.

Most amazing of all, the top 0.1% -- that's one-tenth of one percent -- had more combined pre-tax income than the poorest 120 million people (Johnston, 2006).

[edit on 28-4-2010 by drew hempel]

The below is a choice little quote from the recent Senate hearing, spoken by Mr. Lloyd "Lord" Blankfein, CEO of Goldman Sachs and Doer of God's Work.™
Source = Wall Street Journal:
online.wsj.com...:

"I recognize, however, that many Americans are skeptical about the contribution of investment banking to our economy and understandably angry about how Wall Street contributed to the financial crisis," the testimony said. "What we and other banks, rating agencies and regulators failed to do was sound the alarm that there was too much lending and too much leverage in the system—that credit had become too cheap."

Now, as a purely hypothetical thought experiment, I'd like you to imagine for a moment how a county-courthouse judge would consider the following defense, if offered by a defendant charged with a different type of offence.(Unfortunatley, we willl have to imagine as a backdrop a shabby courthouse with a leaky roof and peeling paint due to state budget as cutbacks, rather than the gleaming marble splendor of the Capitol building, seeing as how ruffians of our imaginary example's calibre don't usually end up at Senate hearings).

"I recognize, however, that many Americans are skeptical about the contribution of junkies to our economy and understandably angry about how we contribute to personal crises, like when some old lady gets knifed in the park for the lousy $5-bill in her purse," the testimony said. "What we, as well as the dealers, major suppliers, street-lookouts, and even the cops failed to do was sound the alarm that there was too much super-fine...I mean, some seriously high-quality, uncut product flooating around in the city [short break while defendent's eyes grow misty at the recollection; wipes drool from chin and attempts to surpress suddlen little twitches of rhapsody]...uh, where was I? Yeah,... flowing into the city, and too many new gangs and moving in on our turf and disrupting the system—that the stuff had become too cheap."

Always the same story, right? "It's not my fault, somebody else made it too easy for me, blah blah blah." But what do you sexpect from some addled junkie pursuing his addiction obsessively by any means necessary? After all, its not like he'S one of those respectable, manly guys who believes in personal responsbility, fair play, and climbing the ladder the old-fashioned-way, with dignity and honor...somebody like, say, oh, I don't know...maybe...an Investment Banking CEO? Those guys are responsbile pillars of society who never do anything wrong anyway, but if they did, they'd certainly stand up like men and take responsiblity for their actions, right?

[edit on 4/28/10 by silent thunder]

reply to post by Stormdancer777


OH lookie, what a surprise.

They had to use one of their own, is it any wonder Obama had meetings with Lloyd Blankfein, four times recently?

thehill.com...

Blankfein supports financial reform bill
By Vicki Needham - 04/27/10 06:45 PM ET

A financial regulatory reform bill has at least one supporter outside of Congressional Democrats, Lloyd Blankfein, the head of investment bank Goldman Sachs.

"I'm generally supportive," Blankfein told the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations.

Wall Street will benefit from the bill because it will make the market safer, Blankfein said.

"The biggest beneficiary of reform is Wall Street itself," he said. "The biggest risk is risk financial institutions have with each other."

American consumers also would benefit from better regulations, he said.

Blankfein said he didn't know all the bill's details and couldn't speak to provisions that affect community and consumer banks and mortgage originators because they are "remote" to our experience.

Timothy P. Carney: Goldman rallies for Obama in Wall Street 'reform'

Read more at the Washington Examiner: www.washingtonexaminer.com...

And there you have it, don't you just love it when a plan comes together, and no one is looking.


[edit on 083030p://bWednesday2010 by Stormdancer777]

After watching some of the congressional hearings yesterday, some question if what GS did was even illegal,

That takes us into the fact this would be a weak case, if there is any case at all, government/congressional hypocrites get their political theater,

Congress Looking self-righteous, superior, and appalled, ha ha

Goldman gets slap on the wrist, yup, that looks like exactly what will happen,

Government gets more control.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Dude, that is some pretty pathetic stuff you are throwing up on the board here.

Fool you once, shame on them.

Fool you twice, shame on you.

Fool you again and again and again, and you are just a pathetic loser.

While eventually Wall Street investment firms lost money and got bought out, the executives that controlled those investment firms still walked away with hundreds of billions of dollars. It was a win win situation for them all the way.

Do you at least recognize this?

As for the people selling the debt, they were like clockers, everywhere you turned 24/7, hawking their goods, "Hey Dude, want some money cheap?"

Its pretty hard to say no when the dude next door has a new house and is driving a new SUV, and your girl is looking at you like you are loooser for not taking the bait. The people who took the bait certainly should share in the blame, but they were the suckers, and they continue to pay. This is why I am against bailing out the people who can't pay their bills.

Where is the reward for those of us who resisted the temptation?

When the whole system collapses, who pays? The investment bankers who created the whole scam?

No, they planned their way out when they wrote this scam.

All the people with their 401k plans in the system are the ones who get screwed, so thus the bailout, and that is what Wall Street has counted on from the beginning.

It seems you are willing to make any excuse you can for the Well Street execs to keep sucking on that crack pipe of market gambling.

People like you, who refuse to hold Wall Street crooks responsible for their crimes, and continue to blame the government for everything, are the ones who have screwed things up for everyone else, almost as badly as the Wall Street con artists.

Have you ever considered that?

edit to correct a typo.


[edit on 28-4-2010 by poet1b]

Originally posted by poet1b
While eventually Wall Street investment firms lost money and got bought out, the executives that controlled those investment firms still walked away with hundreds of billions of dollars. It was a win win situation for them all the way.
....
The investment bankers who created the whole scam?

No, they planned their way out when they wrote this scam.
.....
All the people with their 401k plans in the system are the ones who get screwed, so thus the bailout, and that is what Wall Street has counted on from the beginning.

Why am I sensing de ja vue...a blackness passing through my memory of the 1980's Savings and Loan Scandals!

One could replace Wall Street and 401K with Savings and Loan and savings accounts in the post. And instead of George H. W. Bush, put in George W. Bush, bailing out failed institutions.

The increasingly incestuousness relationships between business and politicians, from the Keating 5 to now, is apparent. Keating got jail time, Neil Bush settled out of court, so we certainly have just cause to see today's players investigated and punished for their actions.

These people knew what they were doing. They knew the rules, the lack of rules, and how best to take advantage, game, the system. And then they did it!

This time it wasn't just Americans who got screwed, it was worldwide. Hell, if aliens visited this planet, they'ld screw them, too!

reply to post by poet1b


It's good that you are not in investment banking.

If you had any knowledge on the subject or cared to watch all the hearings you would agree with everything I have said.

When you get a chance to actually do your own research let me know. Ill be waiting. That goes for anyone else as well -

reply to post by GreenBicMan


If you had any knowledge of investment banking, you wouldn't have bet the the stock market after the rules changes at the end of the nineties. I knew enough to get out, which puts me at least one up on you.

You might want to consider that I know a great deal more about investment banking then you, and wake up and smell the coffee.

Figured this is a good a place as any to post this op/ed on the Goldman topic:

www.asiatimes.com

Once again, America's home-grown Savonarolas are alighting the shiny Bonfire of the Vanities - the golden baubles and bangles of a time of wretched excess. More so than the turgid 1987 novel by Tom Wolfe, or the even more torpid 1990 film that likewise virtually sank the careers of Bruce Willis and Melanie Griffith, the people seem not to be satisfied until having put under the flame the icons they so recently venerated. [1]

On April 15, the US government's Securities and Exchange Commission filed charges against Goldman Sachs, accusing it of civil offenses resulting in securities fraud in regards to mortgage-backed securities Goldman sold by recommendation with John Paulson's hedge fund. Chan Akya and I dealt with these events on this website at the time. (See Goldman: the charade of honesty and Banking with piranhas, Asia Times Online, both April 20, 2010.)

Now, 36 months after the first vanities met the first flames, after the mobs have dispatched everything from Bear Stearns to General Motors, from Citibank to the Bush family dynasty - "you've fought hard and you've saved and earned" Arthur Brown sang in 1966, "but all of its going to burn" - the US Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations on Tuesday put Goldman on the docket for a whole day of obligatory flaying.

***WARNING: some explicit language can be found in the piece***

reply to post by GreenBicMan


It seems that GS has gambled heavily on the Carbon Credits scam being instituted.

GS will in no way shape or form be punished for their actions in the past or present.

They are in at the ground floor of the next fraud and scam perpetuated by the federal government and its partners in crime.

This is all to get the people to call for more regulation.

Next up, Cap and Trade to be passed. I think the financial reform will probably have that in it.

Remember, Cap and Trade has already passed one house, all they need is it to pass the other. Is the financial reform just a ploy to get the Cap and Tax through?

1400 pages seems to be a pretty huge bill to be just about financial reform.

reply to post by endisnighe


Looks like criminal charges are being brought against GS now.. or that is the rumor - sending it down around 14.00 on the day currently

If it closes below 150/share I either have to eat my hat or pony up $100.00 to my dad

reply to post by poet1b


Puts you on a leg up right?

You have no idea what I have invested in. In fact I am up from 2008 heavily in my variable annuities because it allows for re-balancing and I have made quite a bit more than I have lost. Thats why you should always stay invested in the market.

But I am guessing you only sell at the top and buy at the bottom right? I am sure you know best. Dow could be at 15,000 in 2 years just as it could be at 5,000. Point is if you DOLLAR COST AVERAGE like a good investor you would not be sweating this. But I don't want to teach you what you apparently already understand.

Anytime you would like to debate the fraud charge set forth that was discussed several days ago I am still waiting. I am guessing you still haven't watched it yet and would rather be misinformed than knowledgeable on the subject. I'll still be here if you would like to do your homework.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


This is pure sick greed, now you see why AMERICA needs to wake up, it's all over and it is getting worse. Soon you will see a split and that split will be the greedy rich and the poor who work for low wages to fuel the greedy pig. America will not wake up tho, america is to scared of the greedy pig. well, then i guess we are doommed.