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All Roads Lead to Rome

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posted on May, 9 2010 @ 03:53 PM
I very rarely login or post, but have been coming to this site for nearly a decade.

Felt the need to thank you for your post which has inspired much much more research. Do you have the text available so I may print and read away from the computer?

posted on May, 9 2010 @ 04:00 PM

Originally posted by LookingIntoIt
I very rarely login or post, but have been coming to this site for nearly a decade.

Felt the need to thank you for your post which has inspired much much more research. Do you have the text available so I may print and read away from the computer?

Currently I have the Original Post in Microsoft Word or Adobe PDF Format which I am happy to email anyone, who wants to contact me via U2U and provide me with an email address that can accept attached Word or PDF documents.

I haven't published it to a stand a lone site as of yet.

Thanks for posting, and feel free to U2U me if you would like me to email you a copy of the Original Post.

posted on May, 9 2010 @ 04:15 PM

Originally posted by LookingIntoIt
I very rarely login or post, but have been coming to this site for nearly a decade.

Felt the need to thank you for your post which has inspired much much more research. Do you have the text available so I may print and read away from the computer?

Alright I went ahead and published it on Issuu an Internet Publishing Site, though the pictures are not embedded in the document at this point...(I will try to do this at some point soon in the future) and it comes in at 35 pages of text.

The link above should take you straight to the document, and it can be printed from there!

Edit to add: It can also be downloaded as a PDF from there.

[edit on 9/5/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

posted on May, 9 2010 @ 07:29 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I just read a scanned copy of the Treaty of Paris. It says:

It having pleased the Divine Providence to dispose the Hearts of the Most Serene and Most Potent Prince George the Third, by the Grace of God, King of Great Britain, France and Ireleand, Defender of the Faith, Duke of Brunswick, and Lunenbourg, Arch-Treasurer of the Holy Roman Empire, &c. and of the United States of America, to forget all past Misunderstandings and Differences that have unappily interrupted the good Correspondence and Freindship which they mutually wish to restore, and to establish such a beneficial and satisfactory Intercourse between the two Countries upon the Ground of reciprocal Advantages and mutual Convenience as may promote and secure both perpetual Peace and Harmony...

(Emphasis added in bold.)

Just FYI below:

(v) dispose, incline (make receptive or willing towards an action or attitude or belief)


In theology, Divine Providence, or simply Providence, is God's activity in the world. By implication, it is also a title of God. A distinction is usually made between "general providence" which refers to God's continuous upholding the existence and natural order of the universe, and "special providence" which refers to God's extraordinary intervention in the life of people.


What does &C stand for? Et Cetera


Now the thing that I find interesting is that the words "Misunderstandings", "Differences", "Correspondence", "Friendship", etc. are capitalized. Usually a legal document like this is accompanied by an introduction that covers such capitalized terms. I'd like to see that list of definitions.

9. How to list definitions. If you have a group of terms that you want to group together, use the following conventions:

Place the terms in a section called "Definitions".
Place the defined terms in alphabetical order.
Do not give any defined term a paragraph designation, for example, (a), (b), (c); however, subparagraphs are designated (1), (2), (3).


Here is the part about the debts:

It is agreed, that the Creditors on either Side shall meet with no lawful Impediment to the Recovery of the full Value in Sterling Money of all bona fide Debts heretofore contracted.

(Emphasis added in bold.)

Interesting that this puts the restitution of debts above the law itself. In other words, no law may prevent the recovery of debts.

It is agreed, that Congress shall earnestly recommend it to the Legislatures of the respective States to provide for the Restitution of all Estates, Rights and Properties which have been confiscated, belonging to real British Subjects...

The second to last paragraph of the treaty:

In Witness whereof we the undersigned, their Ministers Plenipotentiary, have in their Name and in Virtue of our full Powers, signed with our Hands the present Definitive Treaty, and caused the Seals of our Arms to be fixed thereto.

(Emphasis added in bold.)

The word plenipotentiary (from the Latin, plenus + potens, full + power) has two meanings. As a noun, it refers to a person who has "full powers". In particular, the term commonly refers to a diplomat who is fully authorized to represent their government as a prerogative (e.g., ambassador). As an adjective, plenipotentiary refers to that which confers "full powers".

Historically, the common generic term for high diplomats of the crown or state was Minister. It therefore became customary to style the chiefs of full ranking missions as Minister Plenipotentiary.


Vicar of Christ (from Latin Vicarius Christi) Vicar of God is used as a title equivalent[1], is a term used in different ways, with connotations theological different throughout history. A vicar is a servant who stands in place of the real sovereign in some administrative matters of his kingdom, equivalent titles include "representative" or "overseer". The title is now used in Catholicism to refer to the bishops[2] and more specifically to the Bishop of Rome.[1]


The pope (from Latin: papa; from Greek: πάππας[1] (pappas),[2] an affectionate word for father) is the Bishop of Rome, a position that makes him the leader of the worldwide Catholic Church (that is, the Latin Rite and the Eastern Catholic Churches in full communion with the see of Rome).

(Emphasis added in bold.)

Charlemagne, crowned Emperor of the Romans in 800 AD was the forerunner of the Holy Roman Empire,[6][7][8] largely because he had inaugurated the tradition of imperial coronation by the Pope of the Catholic Church, which continued as a significant institution in the Holy Roman Empire until the 16th century.[9]


(n) coronation, enthronement, enthronization, enthronisation, investiture (the ceremony of installing a new monarch)


So wouldn't the Pope, who is also the Bishop of Rome, who is also the Vicar of Christ on Earth who gave the power to the Monarchs of Europe be the Minister Plenipotentiary of God/Heaven and therefore have through the Prince of all those nations have overseen and signed the Treaty of Paris?

This was a lot to put together. Hope it makes

posted on May, 9 2010 @ 08:04 PM
reply to post by dbloch7986

Where the Treaty of Paris states by the Grace of God in George’s Title, God is actually the Vicar of Christ, in this legal contractual sense. So in essence the King is acting as an agent of the Pope and functions in that legal capacity.

As you read through the beginning of the Treaty, that prince George, the Roman Prince, and arch-treasurer George, the Roman arch-treasurer, retains Rome’s rights through him to be the United States prince elector, he can choose our President on behalf of Rome, and the United States arch-treasurer, he can control our money on behalf of Rome, which is why we had the First and Second United States Bank, and the current Federal Reserve.

King George the English monarch gives up his claims to the United States, but prince George, prince elector George, and arch-treasurer George, did not give up his powers invested in him by Rome over us.

As you can see, it’s really all about money, with money, being the very most important detail to it all, and properties that were already titled to European Monarchs and Rome, had to be paid for by the Colonialists, in essence the people of the colonies being taxed to lease/buy the property, to give to the United States Corporation, to lease/sell back to them.

The closest we ever got to ever paying of that money was under Andrew Jackson’s administration, when the national debt was down to just 21,000.00, however, financial manipulations at the Second United States Bank, soon led to hyperinflation and since then the debt has only grown and grown and grown. In other words, Rome and the European Monarchs still hold title to the land, and as you evidenced, their rights as creditors supersede all laws and give them controlling leverage.

Basically just about everything we are taught about the founding of the United States of America is a lie and a deception.

Thanks my friend.

posted on May, 10 2010 @ 06:05 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Man oh man Proto, the more I look into this stuff the more I am floored. You have to check this stuff out, if you haven't already. I did a search for divine roman law and now I wish I hadn't.

The Divine Right of Kings is a political and religious doctrine of royal absolutism. It asserts that a monarch is subject to no earthly authority, deriving his right to rule directly from the will of God. The king is thus not subject to the will of his people, the aristocracy, or any other estate of the realm, including the church. According to this doctrine, since only God can judge an unjust king, the king can do no wrong. The doctrine implies that any attempt to depose the king or to restrict his powers runs contrary to the will of God and may constitute heresy. The remoter origins of the theory are rooted in the medieval idea that God had bestowed earthly power on the king, just as God had given spiritual power and authority to the church, centering on the pope. The immediate author of the theory was Jean Bodin, who based it on the interpretation of Roman law. With the rise of nation-states and the Protestant Reformation, the theory of divine right justified the king's absolute authority in both political and spiritual matters. The theory came to the fore in England under the reign of King James I of England (1603–25, having been King James VI of Scotland from 1567). King Louis XIV of France (1643–1715), though Catholic, strongly promoted the theory as well.

One passage in scripture supporting the idea of divine right of kings was Romans Chapter 13. Martin Luther, when urging the secular authorities to crush the Peasant Rebellion of 1525 in Germany in his Against the Murderous, Thieving Hordes of Peasants, based his argument on St. Paul's Epistle to the Romans 13:1-7.

It is related to the ancient (but not current) Catholic philosophies regarding monarchy in which the monarch is God's viceregent upon the earth and therefore subject to no inferior power. However, in Roman Catholic jurisprudence the monarch is always subject to natural and divine law which are regarded as superior to the monarch. Antichristus, a woodcut by Lucas Cranach the Elder of the pope using the temporal power to grant authority to a ruler contributing generously to the Catholic Church. Catholic thought justified submission to the monarchy by reference to the following :

1. The Old Testament, in which a line of kings was created by God through the prophecy of Jacob/Israel who created his son Judah to be king and retain the sceptre until the coming of the Messiah, alongside the line of priests created in his other son, Levi. Later, a line of Judges (who were, in effect, kings) was created alongside the line of High Priests created by Moses through Aaron. Later still, the Prophet Samuel re-instituted the line of kings in Saul, under the inspiration of God.

2. The New Testament in which the first Pope, St Peter, commands that all Christians shall honour the Roman Emperor (1 Peter 2:13-17) even though, at that time, he was still a pagan emperor. Likewise, Jesus Christ proclaims in the Gospel of Matthew that one should, "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s," that is, offer obedience and submission to the proclaimed worldly king (Matthew 22:20-21).

3. The endorsement by the popes and the Church of the line of emperors beginning with the Emperors Constantine and Theodosius, later the Eastern Roman emperors, and finally the Western Roman emperor, Charlemagne.

All the emphasis is my own. Sorry to keep bolding everything but I thought the whole mess should have been bolded. I read beyond all this and even followed links that the wiki page had supplied. There are varying opinions of what is actually going on today, but I cannot help but think all roads lead to Rome.

posted on May, 10 2010 @ 07:06 PM
reply to post by jackflap

The truth is Jackflap is we are by and large woefully and tragically ignorant when it comes to understanding the basis for the power structure that rules the world.

This is where we get into the full and respective powers clause, and while we on whole tend to imagine these things mean little and don’t really effect us because of our so called ‘democracies’ and ‘republics’, I personally feel that misunderstanding is what leads to a world of violence and deprivation.

True a lot of this information is ‘out there’ and can be found for the person who goes looking, but the majority of these things isn’t even taught on the university level commonly or at all.

The truth is that a core group of tyrants above the laws, all laws, rule this planet with iron fists, while giving the people whom they know will be divided to the point of endless indecision the illusion that their arguments between one another, actually somehow effect and determine the status quo.

Nothing could be further from the truth, in regards to we the people having any kind of substantial say.

The amazing thing is it has been this way so long, so long in fact it’s hardly even noticed, considered, or talked about.

Do we want to be ruled by a small group of people whose birthright places them above the law, while those very same people control the bulk of the world’s resources, and conspire endlessly to make sure neither of those things ever changes?

Great post my friend.

posted on May, 10 2010 @ 09:35 PM
All these subjects,with quotes taken mostly from Rome's own words,can be found at the link provided. Should be of interest to some!

Quotes of the popes declaring themselves 'GOD ON EARTH' (Blasphemy #1 John 10:33)

Quotes declaring POPE INFALLIBLE

TITLES OF POPE that confirm he fulfills 2Thess 2:4

Quotes of priests declaring they have POWER TO FORGIVE SIN (Blasphemy #2 Mark 2:7)

Quotes of the popes HATING THE CHRISTIANS 05-17-09


Priests have MORE POWER than God Himself



Vatican admits connection with CAESAR


Vatican boldly pushes for SUNDAY LAWS


Vatican openly admits BABYLONIAN CONNECTION

Quotes of the popes HATING THE BIBLE


Quotes of Popes and Prelates declaring MARY WORTHY OF WORSHIP



Misc quotes

Strange Jesuit quotes

OATH of the Roman Catholic priests

Vatican echoes Satan's comments in Isaiah 14

posted on May, 10 2010 @ 10:23 PM
Pope John Paul II Revives Inquisition
By Kathleen R. Hayes
Feb 1991, NRI Trumpet Page 3

The thought of a revived Holy Office of the Inquisition would pacify some and offend others. Nevertheless, the "Holy Office" still exists. Only it's name has been changed. Pope John Paul II has been instrumental in its revival.

One may argue that this (Cardinal) Ratzinger run agency is merely an attempt by the Catholic Church to root out communism or backslidden priests and their practices. However, with John Paul II's objective to implement "God's mandate" by creating a global church-state which will administer from traditional Roman Catholic theology, is enough cause for alarm. Malachi Martin has already stated in his book, "The Keys of this Blood," that the pope will not tolerate any belief systems that oppose his, not on a civil or church level. In John Paul II the world will behold a tyrant who will coldly execute direct orders against those whom he deems are heretics or immoral. Moreover, like his papal predecessors, John Paul II will carry out his "Godly mandate" in the name of Christ, or perhaps Mary. May God help us all..

(It's now called The Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith.)

Pope Endorses “World Political Authority”
AIM Column | By Cliff Kincaid | July 7, 2009

The controversial Papal statement comes just before a meeting of the G-8 nations and a scheduled meeting between the Pope and President Obama at the Vatican on July 10.

Some in the media are calling it just a statement about "economic justice." But Pope Benedict XVI's "Charity in Truth" statement, also known as an encyclical, is a radical document that puts the Roman Catholic Church firmly on the side of an emerging world government.

In explicit and direct language, the Pope calls for a "true world political authority" to manage the affairs of the world. At the same time, however, the Pope also warns that such an international order could "produce a dangerous universal power of a tyrannical nature" and must be guarded against somehow.

The New York Times got it right this time, noting the Pope's call for a world political authority amounted to endorsement of a New World Economic Order, a long-time goal of the old Soviet-sponsored international communist movement. highlighted the Pope's call for a new world order with "teeth."..

In Revelation 17:8 where it says…

Revelation 17:8, "... behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."
The Beast that was: The Roman Catholic Church which began in 538ad and continued until Napoleon sent in General Berthier in 1798ad

...and is not: From 1798ad until the signing of the Lateran treaty in 1929 the Roman Catholic Church & state conglomerate was non-existent.

...yet is: From 1929 to present day, the Roman Catholic Church has been a church & state.

This prophecy is so blunt, and to the point there is no need of explaining it. However, it won’t be understood unless the one studying these facts has already investigated the three previous prophecies that defined each state of this beast's existence throughout history. This prophecy can in no way be understood without that knowledge. That's the amazing thing about the Lord's prophecy. Like Scripture, a line upon line method of discovery is necessary. The Bible itself defines it's own prophetic symbols. If the people would simply allow the Bible to teach them instead of trusting false teachers they would be ready for what's already begun to happen.

Now that we have seen stage one, and stage two of the prophecy from Revelation 13:3 fulfilled, what of the last one?

3. All the world will wonder after it...

This is definetly not just about money,but total control and eliminating all opposition.

God's word is plain on what is happening today. Maybe people just need to have a little faith.....!

[edit on 10-5-2010 by On the Edge]

[edit on 10-5-2010 by On the Edge]

posted on May, 11 2010 @ 03:25 AM
reply to post by jackflap

2. The New Testament in which the first Pope, St Peter, commands that all Christians shall honour the Roman Emperor (1 Peter 2:13-17) even though, at that time, he was still a pagan emperor. Likewise, Jesus Christ proclaims in the Gospel of Matthew that one should, "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s," that is, offer obedience and submission to the proclaimed worldly king (Matthew 22:20-21).

Remember the context though,it was about money,the coin with Ceasar's image on it. It goes on to say,"..and render to God what is God's".

We are only to obey laws that do not conflict with God's laws. Paying taxes isn't the same as "worship.

I'm just saying,...

posted on May, 11 2010 @ 02:22 PM
reply to post by On the Edge

I know what you are saying On the Edge. Still, we cannot blindly plod along our way to an Apocalypse of our own making if in fact that is what is going on. It has to be looked at squarely and soberly.

Again Christian fundamentalist preacher John Hagee does not mince his words on this issue:

The first time He came to earth, Jesus was the Lamb of God, led in silence to the slaughter. The next time He comes, He will be the Lion of Judah who will trample His enemies until their blood stains His garments.

It seems difficult to avoid the conclusion that, like those who once packed the Roman Colosseum to watch Christians or Jews thrown to the wild animals, Hagee cannot wait to take his seat before the carnage. Hagee's position closely resembles that of Islamic fundamentalist commentators for whom, of course, Jesus is an Islamic prophet. the Egyptian Sa'id Ayyub, writing in 1987, insisted that in the final days,

All of the books will be burnt at the end of the road. Those who sucked at deceit, spying, and hypocrisy will be burnt beneath the feet of the prophet of God, Jesus, and the army of Islam -- [Jews and Christians] . . . will be trampled under after the dawn."

This kind of rhetoric and attitude cannot be attributed to God. It comes from insane people fueled by a twisted ideology that cannot wait for the destruction to begin. The military has something called faith force multipliers.

The investigation confirmed that Boykin said that the U.S. military is recruiting a spiritual army that will draw strength from a greater power to defeat its enemy. In fact, he told the First Baptist Church of Broken Arrow, Okla. on June 30, 2002, “What I’m here to do today is to recruit you to be warriors of God’s kingdom.” Wait a minute! He was speaking to Christians—so he was not seeking to evangelize them to become Christians. What then was he recruiting for? If Boykin is a dominionist, then those words have a concrete meaning: He was recruiting soldiers to fight a war to set up God’s Kingdom on earth! After all, Ken Hemphill, the Southern Baptist’s national strategist for Empowering Kingdom Growth, (EKG) spoke to the Southern Baptist Convention Executive Committee recently defining the role of religion for them. According to him, church is about advancing the Kingdom of God. He said, “Southern Baptists must lead in awakening the church to be on mission with God for the redemption of the nations.” Hemphill, quoting a passage from the Bible said there is one biblical sign yet to be fulfilled: “This good news of the Kingdom will be proclaimed in the entire world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.” When we consider Boykin’s speaking and recruitment tour along with the fact he was addressing Baptists and Pentecostals who are the backbone of the religious right dominionist movement, alarm bells should go off. It may be that the Army’s Inspector General’s office is simply ignorant of the goals of the religious right, but there is far more evidence that link the hard right religious world with the U.S. Military. Boykin not only went on a speaking tour to recruit “warriors,” but prior to the tour, he’d invited a select group of Southern Baptist pastors to meet him at the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School at Fort Bragg, NC on April 22-23 of 2003. According to the promotional materials sent out to the group of Southern Baptist pastors, they would be given unprecedented access to the military base while being recruited for the denomination’s “Super FAITH Force Multiplier” program. Boykin’s invitation was extended in a letter authored by the Rev. Bobby H. Welch, pastor of the First Baptist Church in Daytona Beach, Fla.

This is dangerous stuff. This is taking our free will and suppressing it to believe in something and make it the world's reality. Throw common sense out the door, Armageddon is on the way!

posted on May, 11 2010 @ 07:19 PM
reply to post by jackflap

What is particularly dangerous is the Kingdom of God, and God itself is so poorly defined.

In fact that poor definition is what creates most of the carnage for going on two millennia, as various entities seek to impose their definition of the Kingdom of God, and God.

Yet the most important telltale clue we have in this insane struggle is by and large it is being waged by and for those who believe in the divine right of Kings. That they and they alone have been chosen as instruments of God to define God and what God’s Kingdom should be, and to do that from a position entirely above the law.

Yet when we get back too, Jesus proclaiming, “All must render unto Caesar that which is Caesars” we are seeing a few things.

First and foremost why is Caesar synonymous with earthly power? If Jesus was a Hebrew Rabbi why exactly did he choose a Roman Emperor? Why not King Herod? Jerusalem had not yet fallen in the time of Biblical Jesus, so this statement makes little sense.

Unless of course, Jesus wanted to perpetuate and glorify the power of Rome, and to instill the notion of the Divine Right of Kings, by placing Caesar on the same earthly level as God.

This is more strong anecdotal evidence that the Biblical Jesus was modeled off of Caesar and that on earth Caesar had to be respected to the same extent God is in the heavens.

Yet we get back to God being so poorly and conflictingly defined, that it then becomes literally up to Caesar to define what God is. In fact it was Constantine Caesar who did this with the Ecumenical Council that began to codify the Holy Roman Bible.

So on whose authority, which divine King, is defining for the Southern Baptists, what the Kingdom of God should be? If the Old, or New Testament, the Talmud, Torah, or Koran adequately described and defined the Kingdom of God in a definitive way, you wouldn’t need a denomination to implement it or prepare for it the book(s) would be adequate.

So the very interesting ten million dollar question, is which King is designing and defining this Kingdom of God to be set up?

There can only be one logical answer, “All must render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s”

posted on May, 11 2010 @ 08:07 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

There is definitely an agenda being driven by someone or something. Just look at the mess we are in. I think back to the Bush administration and remember how I would watch his speeches just to listen to the hidden and sometimes obvious references to the Bible. I cannot recall all of them but I remember listening to all of his crap intently.

Bush leaves specifics of his faith to speculation President is openly religious, but his true beliefs remain mystery

A daily Bible reader, he often talks about how Jesus changed his heart. He has spoken, publicly and privately, of hearing God's call to run for the presidency and of praying for God's help since he came into office. But despite the centrality of Bush's faith to his presidency, he has revealed only the barest outline of his beliefs, leaving others to sift through the clues and make assumptions about where he stands. Bush has said many times that he is a Christian, believes in the power of prayer and considers himself a "lowly sinner." But White House aides said they do not know whether the president believes that: the Bible is without error; the theory of evolution is true; homosexuality is a sinful choice; only Christians will go to heaven; support for Israel is a biblical imperative; or the war in Iraq is part of God's plan. Some political analysts think there is a shrewd calculation behind these ambiguities.

Faith, Certainty and the Presidency of George W. Bush

Every few months, a report surfaces of the president using strikingly Messianic language, only to be dismissed by the White House. Three months ago, for instance, in a private meeting with Amish farmers in Lancaster County, Pa., Bush was reported to have said, ''I trust God speaks through me.'' In this ongoing game of winks and nods, a White House spokesman denied the president had specifically spoken those words, but noted that ''his faith helps him in his service to people.'' A recent Gallup Poll noted that 42 percent of Americans identify themselves as evangelical or ''born again.'' While this group leans Republican, it includes black urban churches and is far from monolithic. But Bush clearly draws his most ardent supporters and tireless workers from this group, many from a healthy subset of approximately four million evangelicals who didn't vote in 2000 -- potential new arrivals to the voting booth who could tip a close election or push a tight contest toward a rout.

I can go on and on with this intriguing topic about the Bush presidency. He seemed to be doing this sort of thing purposely. Drawing on that fundamentalist mentality that God was coming soon and the events in the world were in fact going on because of God. It worked because look at where we are at now.

Everything has gotten worse. Consolidation of resources and control are expanding and I guess we are indeed rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's. The whole force multiplier program in the military right now is alarming. They have Chaplains, but this group is specifically for end time fundamentalist Christians. Another layer of clergy and members specifically hidden. Almost like a secret society.

Suddenly we were immersed in the pathology of a "holy war" as defined by fundamentalists on both sides. You could see this pathology play out in General William Boykin. As a member of the US military, Boykin had taken up with a small group called the Faith Force Multiplier whose members apply military principles to evangelism with a manifesto summoning warriors "to the spiritual warfare for souls:' In uniform, Boykin attended evangelical revivals preaching that America was in a holy war as "a Christian nation" battling Satan and that America's Muslim adversaries will be defeated "only if we come against them in the name of Jesus." For such an hour, America surely needed a godly leader. So General Boykin explained how it was that the candidate who had lost the election in 2000 nonetheless wound up in the White House. President Bush, he said, "was not elected by a majority of the voters -he was appointed by God:' Not surprising, instead of being reprimanded for evangelizing' while in uniform, General Boykin is now the Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence. (Just as it isn't surprising that despite his public call for the assassination of a foreign head of state, Pat Robertson's Operation Blessing was one of the first groups to receive taxpayer funds from the President's Faith-Based Initiative for "relief work" on the Gulf Coast.) We can't wiggle out of this. Were talking about a powerful religious constituency that claims the right to tell us what's on God's mind and to decide the laws of the land according to their interpretation of biblical revelation and to enforce those laws on the nation as a whole. For the Bible is not just the foundational text of their faith; it has become the foundational text for a political movement.

These are dangerous times my friend. Predator drone attacks are up by eighty percent from when Bush was in office. Obama made a joke at a recent speaking event where he told some boys to stay away from his daughters and let them know two words. Predator Drones and then went on to say that they'll never see them coming.

Now on the surface that just seems like a funny thing to say. For someone like me or you that would be funny to say. For the President to elude to something as serious as that, knowing that those drones were probably killing someone as he spoke, it is chilling to me. I knew about the increase in the drone attacks and so I was taken aback by that 'joke'.

You see, we are still in that mind set of good versus evil. We believe we're the good guys and the Muslims believe they are the good guys. So the violence gets perpetuated. All the while someone is pulling the strings and laughing at us all. We blindly let the massacre go on to our own detriment. Rome does not back down, nor will it be staggered. It's relentless and will continue to fill body bags.

posted on May, 11 2010 @ 08:15 PM
reply to post by jackflap

Still, we cannot blindly plod along our way to an Apocalypse of our own making...

Who is "we"? These pastors you mention,their agenda,to fight for God's kingdom on earth,is NOT biblical!

These SUNday-churches answer to Rome and our government. Jesuit-infiltrated,Rome-approved!

I do not believe this is what the Bible teaches it,not from the New Testament. God's kingdom "is not of this world". It comes later,and doesn't require an army on earth to accomplish that.

Hagee and others are preaching a false doctrine.

Reformers such as Luther, Calvin, Huss, Zwingli, Melanchthon, Bullinger and others had identified the Catholic Church as Mystery Babylon in Revelation and the Popes as the Anti-Christ. Millions of sincere Catholics were leaving the mother church and joining the reformation movement.. The church set out to neutralize and destroy the protestant movement.. What they could not do through brute force and the military inquisitions they did through political espionage, spiritual intrigue, and using mind control techniques by secret societies. Most of the books published on the rapture are brainwashing the readers mind. All of the books writen by Tim Lahaye’s, John Hagee, Jack van Impe, Jerry Jenkins , John Walvoord and movies such as the Omega Code and Megiddo are design for mind control. This anti-protestant doctrine is taught in many universities and seminaries such as Dallas Theological Seminary, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Southwestern Assemblies of God, Zion Bible College, Moody Bible Institute, Global University, Liberty and Regent University and well as a host of other leading colleges and universities The rapture cult has the largest following than any cult in the US or Europe...

If one look at the Babylonian sun worship, and the present Roman Catholic Mass there are many similarities. Baal worship seem to have taken over the Catholic Church. The icon of the virgin mother and child with halos (representing the sun), Mary as the queen of heaven, (Isis – queen of heaven) confessionals, wafer worship, transubstantiation, and priests as exclusive mediators of God were all derived from the Satanic Babylonian religion. Roman Catholicism became a mixture of witchcraft, Judaism, paganism, and perverted Christianity. When this corruptions was exposed by the reformers, Rome was outraged, and staged Holy Inquisitions, design to rid the world of heretics.

This list doesn't begin to tell the whole story,but it gives you a clue what I'm talking about.

Religious Leaders

Billy Graham, World's most popular 'Christian' evangelist is a 33rd Degree Freemason

Norman Vincent Peale, 33rd Degree Freemason, ex Grand Chaplain of the Grand Lodge of New York, Past Grand Prelate of the Knights Templar and Shriner. (now deceased)

Robert Schuller, 33rd Degree Freemason, Pastor of the Crystal Cathedral and host of the popular "Hour of Power" television programme

Oral Roberts, 33rd Degree Freemason, founder of Oral Roberts University

Jesse Jackson, 33rd Degree Prince Hall Freemason

Louis Farrahkan, leader of the Nation Of Islam

Geoffrey Fisher, Archbishop of Canterbury 1945-1961

Father Francisco Calvo, Jesuit Catholic priest who started Freemasonry in Costa Rica

G. Bromley Oxnam, 33rd Degree Freemason, friend of Billy Graham, head of the FCC churches

Truly,the Walter Veith lectures I've referred to show all the connections and their false doctrine. I wish all people would watch them and learn the difference. He explains it so much better than I ever could. It is true,"the whole world wonders after the beast",but there is a remnant of God that does not and aren't being influenced by these church leaders. (I like to think I am one of God's grace alone!)

posted on May, 11 2010 @ 08:26 PM
reply to post by jackflap

What if George W Bush, Jr. wasn’t lying, when he said God told him to attack Iraq while he was walking in the Rose Garden?

What if, as I contend, based on all the legal definitions, that the Pope as the Vicar of Christ is legally God and the Pope simply picked up the telephone and called George W. up and said “Hey, I want the United States to invade Iraq militarily”.

Technically George would now be telling the truth, since the Pope legally is God in legal and contractual sense.

He simply omitted how he himself defines God!

Rather than say the Pope told me, he is simply saying God told me, but would in fact be, being truthful since legally the Pope is God’s representative on Earth.

So while George’s faith is entirely ill defined, his view as the Pope being God would explain his reverence to God, despite the fact that he was just another typical drunken, drug addicted, womanizing philanderer for most of his adult life.

God would not represent a faith in the spiritual or supernatural to him, but a faith in a chain of Command that starts with the Pope in Rome and rolls down hill to heads of nations like him.

If one wants to consider my contention that the Bible really is a 2,000 year old plan to take over the world and install a one world government, and the elites, most especially the Skull and Bones 322, which Bush is Skull and Bones 322 are responsible for making world and political events mimic Biblical Prophecy, that would also explain his obsession in reading the Bible over and over again, to then visualize and conceive how he could use the office of the Presidency of the United States, Inc. and all it’s considerable resources to create and taint world and political events to mimic Biblical Prophecy.

These pose some very interesting questions, were Bush just a shrewd politician playing to his largest constituent block the Christian Right, or was he in fact being semi-honest, and simply withheld the fact that as President of the United States, he is legally bound to view the Pope as God and follow his commands?

posted on May, 11 2010 @ 08:26 PM
reply to post by jackflap

Bush has said many times that he is a Christian...

...But he engages in all sorts of abominations with the men at Bohemian Grove! Real Christians would not do that.

Saying the things he has said publically is exactly the kind of deception that leads people to put faith in him,and at the same time giving Christianity a bad name,because people see through the hypocrisy for what it is,and just assume all "Christians" are war-mongers and such.

"Vengeance is mine",says the Lord. As far as it depends on us,we are to live at peace with everyone inasmuch as it is possible,not go out conquering the world and killing in the name of "peace".

posted on May, 11 2010 @ 08:34 PM
One of my friends telephoned me a short while ago to inform me he had been served with a subpoena to appear at a deposition, and wanted to know whether he was legally obligated to appear.

I asked him what kind of subpoena it was, and he replied it says on the top “Subpoena duces tecum”

Of course I laughed since that is all Latin the language of Rome, even though we are here in the United States where the ‘official’ language is English.

But is English really the official language.

This is what Wikipedia has to say about Subpoena duces tecum:

In the United States legal system, a subpoena duces tecum (Latin for "bring with you under penalty of punishment") is specific form of a subpoena (summons, literally "under punishment") issued by a court ordering the parties named to appear and produce tangible evidence (documents or otherwise) for use at a hearing or trial.

It is similar to subpoena ad testificandum (writ of summons to testify orally) but it includes clauses to bring in hand books, papers, etc. for the court.

The terms used vary between jurisdictions. The words "subpoena duces tecum" appear to be used exclusively by various jurisdictions within the United States. In jurisdictions in the United States that have reduced the use of foreign words and phrases in court terminology, this type of subpoena is also called a "subpoena for production of evidence."


The parts in bold are thought provoking in my humble opinion, as once again why is our legal system so dependent on not just a Foreign Language, but a Dead Foreign Language?

Why is it always, that All Roads Lead to Rome?

posted on May, 11 2010 @ 08:47 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Rather than say the Pope told me, he is simply saying God told me, but would in fact be, being truthful since legally the Pope is God’s representative on Earth.

Yeah, I had that in mind already. At this point I'm convinced that he was referring to someone other then what we would consider God. That's what I'm getting at here. They are pushing the buttons of the fundamentalists and justifying their actions through them it would seem. While in all actuality going on about their business like good Roman politicians. Deceiving the public and conquering all the while. Quite a wake up call, seriously.

posted on May, 11 2010 @ 09:26 PM

Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Rather than say the Pope told me, he is simply saying God told me, but would in fact be, being truthful since legally the Pope is God’s representative on Earth.

Yeah, I had that in mind already. At this point I'm convinced that he was referring to someone other then what we would consider God. That's what I'm getting at here. They are pushing the buttons of the fundamentalists and justifying their actions through them it would seem. While in all actuality going on about their business like good Roman politicians. Deceiving the public and conquering all the while. Quite a wake up call, seriously.

Well you know what they say, better late than never. In my humble opinion we have uncovered and shed a tremendous amount of light on a number of misunderstood and seldom understood aspects of our world in this thread.

Some of them are arguably the most important issues facing us as human beings.

Part of the Divine Right of Kings is to practice without remorse the art of deception.

One of the interesting and potentially very problematic issues with the Divine Right of Kings is that because they are above the law, and laws do not apply to them, in essence there is no right or wrong as far as they are concerned.

They decide what is right and wrong for us, through the laws that they stand above, which those laws are in essence all about what is right or wrong for them, in regards to the rest of us, but as far as they are concerned there is no right or wrong, since their own actions can’t be judged by any human in a way that they then can be held to account for them.

So in essence what we have is a system, where a chosen privileged few get to make up the rules for us, as they go along, in ways that suit them in regards to their own power and control, but for them there are in fact no rules at all.

It kind of makes one wonder, why it is we follow their rules. Following one’s own moral compass, your own sense of right and wrong and propriety makes perfect sense, adhering to their codes, all 600,000 of them, that only we have to follow and not them, makes absolutely no sense at all.

Until you throw one word into the picture and that word being absolution, and the promise that if you follow Caesar’s laws, then God will reward you with an eternal afterlife, and or condemn you to eternal damnation if you don’t.

So once again who benefits most from these peculiar notions of God, and making it so important that the masses believe in these peculiar notions of God? Those privileged few that rule by the Divine Right of Kings.

posted on May, 12 2010 @ 01:10 AM

Originally posted by On the Edge
reply to post by jackflap

Bush has said many times that he is a Christian...

...But he engages in all sorts of abominations with the men at Bohemian Grove! Real Christians would not do that.

Saying the things he has said publically is exactly the kind of deception that leads people to put faith in him,and at the same time giving Christianity a bad name,because people see through the hypocrisy for what it is,and just assume all "Christians" are war-mongers and such.

"Vengeance is mine",says the Lord. As far as it depends on us,we are to live at peace with everyone inasmuch as it is possible,not go out conquering the world and killing in the name of "peace".

Excellent posts Edge, Jack and Proto. I have been following along. No need to interject, you've all been batting 1000. In a world that can be so unsatisfying at times it is so refreshing to read thoughts that echo my own. It is good to know that we are not alone.

This is a good time to contribute. Bush needed to do very little to convince the public of his "Christianity". His constituency was brainwashed, he was preaching to the choir. We see it here on ATS with some people that have heard and read all of the Bush family horrors and still think it's all lies. We need to remember that the majority of people have never been exposed to any of this information nor this thinking. And so for the masses it is still that the "President can do no wrong". I know when I was very young I thought that the president was a good man. Everyone and everything told me so. That was JFK and I was also proud to be Catholic then. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Now as for the Bush controllers it's another story. Rome demanded that he prove over and over his allegiance. And thus the lifelong abominations and acts of heresy. That's a very different "choir" he's convincing.

There's another curiosity I've noticed regarding the Bush family.

Prescott Sheldon Bush - Episcopalian

George Herbert Walker Bush - Episcopalian

George Walker Bush - United Methodist (after 1977)

John Ellis "Jeb" Bush - Roman Catholic

Not so strange that sons would attach to other Christian denominations. But in this case I think that the moves were more politically expedient than anything. The Bushes have all the Christian bases superficially covered. But as has been discussed, they serve no heavenly master, only Rome.

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