reply to post by jackflap
Proof of the pudding's in the eating ... yes ?
And proof of the tree is in it's fruits
Just as the proof of the god is in its creations
Ok. So we look at those creations. And what do we find ?
To me, this world is similar to half a dozen painters let loose on the one canvas -- sublimely beautiful segment in one corner, perhaps. Then a
heavy, muddy mess nearby. Mediocre dabbling here, black splotch there. Glorious snippit there. And so on ...
The turning-point for me --- the point where I could no longer feel or force belief in what religion preached -- lay in a newspaper report of the rape
and murder of a little child. The rapist had stuffed the child's socks down its throat to muffle its screams
And my mind was screaming, trying to drown out what I'd just read. A vomit of disbelief, rage, disappointment, fear, horror and sadness kept rising
in my mind's throat. None of the platitudes did a thing to relieve it. None of the Pollyanna BS helped. No-one had an answer which came anywhere
close to explaining it away
Sure, I could accept that the rapist was a victim of something -- something which was responsible for his acts. But nothing
could explain how
any god worth the name could allow what had happened to the child -- a child with no physical defences, on whose behalf no-one intervened
'Don't tell me the rapist will go to hell ' I raged at those who suggested that. ' Don't tell me a devil, a satan or a lucifer was responsible !
Don't tell me the child is safely in heaven now. Don't tell me it is not mine to question ! I AM questioning ! I want to know what sort of god
creates a situation where things like this happen ! What sort of 'loving' god ? So don't waste my time with nonsense about free-will. Unless you
can tell me why the rapist's 'free will' was enabled -- and the child's was not '
I was terrified of what I was thinking. I was burning my bridges with God. It meant (if 'religion' was to be believed) that God would cast me
adrift for my sin of rejecting him. It meant I was on my own. Or worse ... a victim of the debil, who'd put these rebellious ideas in my empty
So I dithered and went back and forth for years, begging forgiveness and sliding back into the fold. Only to rebel again when the world sickened my
Finally, I realised I didn't have to toss the baby out with the bathwater. It suddenly dawned on me that all this 'one god' stuff wasn't
necessarily so. Sure, ultimately, the various gods would have to be reduced to one ultimate source. But I felt as if a great weight had been lifted
from me at the same time I regained my 'religion'. Because I realised ... or decided (because I don't know which) ... that the god of this world
was not GOOD enough to be my god. Simple as that.
I have higher expectations of god than to believe this world or dimension, is the best he/she/it can do
And it's more than just wishful-thinking on my part. I have reasons to believe my god is better than this. Because there are truly divine elements
within humans. And although I don't know for a fact
that this next is so --- I suspect that even within the most depraved child-murderer,
there exists something divine. It may be the potential to be a self-sacrificing hero, should the opportunity arise. Just the potential. But that's
sufficient, to my mind, to indicate that even the worst of us contains something that is more god-like than a god which will allow the darkness and
suffering which exists on this planet, this dimension
Can the cake be superior to the cook ? Can the suit be superior to the tailor ? Can the creation be superior to the alleged god-creator ?
Isn't it more likely that the creation contains within itself the essence and evidence of its creator ?
It seems to me that humans, beneath the dross, are superior on some level, to the life they're compelled to endure, the god they're told is theirs.
That's just my opinion and many will disagree. And yes, there's a lot of dross to be stripped. Spirits trapped in a material world, as it's
described --- I can agree with that
Shouldn't we reflect the god which created us ? If so, DO we ?
Do we mirror our environment, the environment in which we're compelled to exist, whilst nevertheless retaining evidence of something better ?
If we and our environment were created by the same god, why throughout history, have we loathed ourselves and at the same time prayed and hoped for
something 'better' (more in tune with our spirits) after we're dead
Is it a case of some of us being more strongly imbued with the spirit of a superior god and more able to resist succumbing to the environment in which
we find ourselves ? For example, the child-soliders in war-torn Africa, who recently hacked off the legs of a woman they'd butchered, cooked the
legs and forced her children (who'd witnessed the entire thing) to eat their mother. Some of the terrified children did so. One son refused and was
shot on the spot. The child-solders and the children who obeyed them -- overpowered by the dark-god, creator of this dark world ? The son who chose
to die rather than succumb to the darkness --- possessed more of his true god's spirit ?
'One god' they preach, 'One god who's a jealous, vindictive but 'loving' god. A god who will tolerate your having no god but himself. One god,
one god, that's all there is. One god. That's all you have. One god -- obey and worshiop that one god or you'll go to hell. Thank that one god
for everything you have, even if all you have is pain and excreta. Because it could be worse, puny human -- you could end up in a place even worse
than this if you even consider there might be more than this one god whose works surround you '
So fearfully, we give praise for the beauty around us. We drive ourselves to be thankful for whatever sufferings befall us. We twist logic into
pretzels. We send ourselves insane. We live in fear and loathing and we berate ourselves for not being more thankful, even when we hate our
We believe daffodils and rainbows are evidence of 'beauty' and 'god's love'. But really, with what do we compare them ? It's all we know. And
for all we know, if life were a dream and we were to awake somewhere else and see this world from a truer perspective, we might realise that daffodils
are actually horrific and sunsets a terrifying phenomenon similar to a Mad Max world
Where did we gain our compassion, our courage, our mercy, our ability to sacrifice for a stranger, a sense of justice, fairness and recognition of
injustice ? Aren't they at odds with this physical world and with the god of the old testament ? Yet throughout thousands of years, we've taught
these values to our children and we've aspired to them ourselves, regardless of whatever religion (if any) we were taught. Meaning we're more
evolved than our physical selves and our world
Isn't it true that we don't 'fit' with this physical world ? And isn't that at least one of the reasons so many put faith in extraterrestrials
and an afterlife ?
Isn't it also true that we have to learn
to 'fit' with this world ? And isn't that the reason we're troubled very often by our
Would our conscience allow us to subject humanity to this world, for thousands of years, if we were god ? Would we subject our children to this
world, if we had a choice ? Would we toss some of our children into a vat of depravity, filth, suffering and misery --- and gently place other of our
children in luxury and oportunity? And if they protested (for their individual reasons) would we give them the one-size-fits-all explanation of, ' I
work in mysterious ways' ?
Would we create an environment where everything exists at the expense of something else, knowing the chaos this would cause ? Would we ? Then why ?
Why would we ? I wouldn't.
Do we choose greetings cards which portray scenes of bombed cities and people dying of disease and hunger ? Or do we choose cards which portray
peaceful scenes of flowers, idyliic surroundings, kittens playing ? Sound a crazy question ? Or does it provide insight into how humans would
their world to be ?
So all of this, to me anyway, illustrates that we bear within ourselves evidence of our real
creator, despite that we're compelled to survive
in a world/dimension/environment created by a different god altogether -- a god who doesn't seem to like us very much
'God', to me these days, consists of a sort of light combined with a gently rhythmic pulsation -- an impersonal energy/intelligence which absorbs
our essence after we've been purified and filtered possibly thousands of times. And maybe where we are now is where we have to begin, in this coarse
slurry ? But I believe each of us has as much chance of working it out any of the 'religions'. And I believe it's our right to try to work it
out, possibly even one of the primary reasons for our existence