All Roads Lead to Rome

reply to post by serbsta


I am going to say this about Proto's theory here:

1. It is obvious that "Rome" still runs the world. Rome was the beginning of the current cycle of wealth accumulation and civilization building. The majority of the ruling class retained their wealth, and their influence, after Rome fell. It is highly likely that, like any politicized upper class, they had plans for maintaining the ideals of the Republic.

2. Any time a culture dominates another culture, the history is altered, forgotten, or rewritten. Throughout the Church's lifespan, we have seen them move in, demand obedience, assimilate the native culture to the point that the true native culture is completely lost in the amalgamation of Catholic doctrine. It is the source of all the saints, and the reason we have Christmas in the winter. If the massive wealth of the "old families" had any influence at all over the formation of the Catholic Church (which i would expect it would, as people with money are always looking for ways to ensure that they get more money, and thus power), then we would expect to see this pro-Roman influence come to bear on the newly assimilated culture's history. This does not mean they carefully dug up and replaced all the artifacts in the middle east. It does mean that they added stories to, or removed stories from (just like the Church did with the official Bible), or provided far different interpretations (even by including a few additional words). Any time you run any organization, you control the flow of information to the highest degree possible. That is the name of the game with control.

3. Roman systems did work. Marvelously well, actually. But they didn't have a monopoly. There are myriad other systems that worked, and were sustainable beyond the "spread too thin military" of Rome. The fact that the Western World is nothing more than an evolution of Rome tells me some very important information.

RE: Undo....such a great contributor here at ATS. It does bother me to see her treated in the way she has been treated in this thread. It is part of my lack of participation. No hard feelings, just would rather not witness it so i don't begin to have hard feelings. A little more patience would have been more than reasonable, i think.

But she did come on pretty strong. She is a passionate person, and i think this passion is what put Proto off. Typing in all caps and bold font is not normally a way that one facilitates civil conversation aimed at resolving a dispute. I tried to make her understand that his research here didn't invalidate hers, but I don't think she understood.

It would be nice if we could just return to civility, talk to our fellow members respectfully, and not stifle the flow of information. This thread is an outstanding concept, and worthy of discussion. It calls out to be put to the test by the members of ATS. People are closing down bank accounts and making changes to their lives because of the information in this thread. It demands to be fully vetted, if for no other reason than to "do right" by those who are actually taking this information to an actualization within their lives. It is one thing to discuss matters in a forum, but another entirely to make changes to your financial situation in response to those conversations. That is some serious action and needs to be taken seriously.

reply to post by Dock9


No not at all, we don't have to put up with Rome, in fact I have a great plan!

I am really looking forward to executing it too!

I really just wanted to make sure, my plans wouldn't be interfering with anyone else's plans but Rome!

Whew, what a relief.

The great news is, that because the vast majority of people don't believe that Rome can be stopped, and Rome doesn't believe it can be stopped either, this creates an ideal Proto Vacuum!

It's really an ingenious plan, right as they go to solidify the whole New World Order, into a one world government, that's when I strike and make my move, defeating Rome and siezing the entire planet in one fell swoop, after I have gotten them to take over the entire planet for me!

Problems, they are really just opportunities in disguise!

I am so glad no one objects to me doing this, or had other plans!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

It's really an ingenious plan, right as they go to solidify the whole New World Order, into a one world government, that's when I strike and make my move, defeating Rome and siezing the entire planet in one fell swoop, after I have gotten them to take over the entire planet for me!

Okey dokey

I'll reserve a slot for that in my diary

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

It calls out to be put to the test by the members of ATS. People are closing down bank accounts and making changes to their lives because of the information in this thread. It demands to be fully vetted, if for no other reason than to "do right" by those who are actually taking this information to an actualization within their lives. It is one thing to discuss matters in a forum, but another entirely to make changes to your financial situation in response to those conversations. That is some serious action and needs to be taken seriously.

We are living in very serious times, and people are reacting to them.

I haven't made a direct call for people to take action, but clearly people across ATS are taking action, constantly based on decisions they made from information that gave them a different perspective on things that they got from ATS.

We see a good bit of this on the Threads that have to do with the Law, and Freeman on the Land Concepts.

I personally don't see how denying the system certain opportunities to enrich itself hurts anyone.

I got rid of my TV two years ago, and it's one of the best things I have ever done.

I got rid of my car, and traded it for a bicycle a year ago, it really is about one of the best things I have done in my life, the financial benefits, and the health benefits and even some of the convenience benefits are really amazing.

But a lot of these things are simply lifestyle decisions, and whether I was worried about what was going on in the world or not, they would be good things.

So I think that's the question people should ask when they make a decision to radically alter how they live life or do business, is it going to have a real benefit to me.

If it does, and it also happens to hurt they monopolies, well that's all icing on the cake.

I think everyone has to judge for themselves, I know I do.

Ultimately in this world if you don't make your own decisions someone will make them for you, and a lot of the Law and Freeman Threads are about limiting the State's ability to make decisions for you.

The point of this thread is about whether we want to be able to make reasonable decisions for ourselves, or do we really want a world where the State is going to make them all for us, and we are rapidly headed in that direction where they are going to make them all for us.

We can talk about that right up to the point, they make the decision that we can't talk about that anymore, and that day isn't likely far off.

Anyone who is going to act, in any way, this would be the time, to consider doing it.

To thy own self be true.

As far as certain posters my friend, I have tried to keep up with every polite poster on this thread, regardless of whether they agree with my theories or don't.

People utilizing the squeaky wheel get's the grease strategy with me, end up getting the opposite.

Proto is quite indomitable, always has been, and always will be, reasoned, to the extent it is wise, and compassionate, not to the extent it becomes detrimental and foolish.

I run my real world business that way too, and actually will fire clients that become too much of a drain on my time, that impacts my over all productivity needlessly.

Thanks my friend.

I guess that is it isn't it.

the Roman system is pretty damn good , if you don't want to confront the true realities of your own existence.

plenty of fun, plenty of distractions, a feeling of being part of something grand!

but when it burns, nobody is gonna be there to help the plebs. Because it although it works well, it wasn't designed for us.

It was designed to take advantage of our apathy and laziness in the self...

reply to post by 2theC


Well, that's not me, I am neither lazy nor appathetic, I won't go down without a fight, and never have.

I can't imagine why so many people would want to or give up.

I think in a lot of ways, it's because they can't quite grasp how real it is and the gravity of the situation.

In our get now, pay later society, on demand world, I think a lot of people have trouble really appreciating things until the wolfe is really at the door, and yes then it is often too late.

It's why I have a real plan, for just me, because I can't really count on anyone else, being proactive, but just waiting to the point what ever they do is reactive.

You know there is an old saying, if you are falling off a cliff you might as well learn how to fly, now is the time to learn how to fly.

It ain't over until the fat lady sings.

There are though people out there who haven't lost hope, or the ability to try.

It's a shame so many people are loosing hope, and don't want to try.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained!

This is one the of the best times, for the average person, in recorded history

The very fact people have the leisure time ... and the means ... to afford to sit before an astonishing contraption which allows them to connect in real time with people on the other side of the globe -- should cause people to realise how far the average person's lifestyle has improved

Flexi-time, which allows people to work only 7 or so hours per day, often in comfort, in seated position, in air-conditioning, using nothing more laborious than again, instant communicative-devices such as telephones and computers

Paid sick and maternity and compassionate leave

Health benefits and workers' compensation provided by the employer

Bit of a remove from a brief life spent underground, shackled together at the end of a whip-hand, down in the salt and tin and coal mines, don't you think ?

No need to stalk, kill, cart, skin and gut an animal before hacking it into meal-sized chunks. No need to hang the dripping carcass from the rafters either. None of the flies and rats that attracts. Someone else does all that. All you need do is select the cut and store it in your freezer, ready for use. No need to get up before dawn to herd and milk the cows and take them across frosty ground to the lucern patch. Nope, just grab a container of milk from the cheery supermarket fridge. No need to collect or sow seeds to plant in ground you must till and furrow to grow grain so you can harvest it and grind the seeds before you set to the task of making your daily bread. Kids want oats on a frosty morning ? Lucky then you didn't have to grow them yourself and can just grab a cheerful packet from the shelf

Count the ways. Count the ways your life is easier and less back-breaking than even your grandparents' day

But --- if you want to return to then it's your choice, isn't it ? No-one's going to stop you moving to the woods and making your own boots

You're provided the FREEDOM to do that. Unlike slaves in ancient times, who had to ask permission to go to the toilet, basically

You can wear purple, if you like. You're provided that FREEDOM. More than the plebs were permitted back in Rome

Choosing to walk or ride a bike isn't going to bring down Rome or anyone else. I've been doing it for years. It's my choice. I had that FREEDOM. I'm also FREE to travel by car or plane or bus or train or ship, should I choose

Choose which religion you'd like to taste. Then choose another. You are FREE to do so. Yet my ancestors (and yours most likely), not all that long ago in time, were fined if they didn't attend church on Sunday. And there are graveyards in the UK filled to capacity with ancestors of mine who DIED because they didn't toe the party line as regards religious affiliation. Yet flip foward a few hundred years and your have the FREEDOM to worship or not, any way you like

Put your money in a hollow tree or under the bed or in a bank or credit union. Invest it in shares, property, mung beans. It's your choice, isn't it. You are provided that FREEDOM

Those of us accessing the interwebs are amongst the top 8% of the world's population, if we also have somewhere to sleep tonight, have had or will have something to eat today, if we have access to clean drinking water, education and medical assistance. TOP 8%.

So it seems that apart from approving the theory that Rome still rules -- we can only agree that Rome has served us -- the top 8% -- pretty damn well, all considered

And in addition, Rome apparently provides us the FREEDOM to exchange places with those of the lower 92% -- or to donate to them or even give them everything we possess --- should we choose

Not bad, really, is it ?

reply to post by Dock9


I can appreciate that you feel that way. I think it's failing to take into consideration the huge percentage of people that aren't as fortunate as you feel you are, and feel you are lucky to be.

Not only does it not address that mass starvation in the world, or the very real and very needless wars being waged with your tax dollars, robbed from you to diminish your own quality of life to bring death, carnage and pain and suffering to innocent, peaceful people, much like you perceive yourself to be, but it sure doesn’t take into consideration that the overall standard of life for the middle class and the poor is continually eroding, and that wars, violence and starvation are escalating.

But I can appreciate you would rather, cling to those things you do feel are positive, while remaining absolutely passive in the face of all the negatives, and want to look at the positives as a way to absolve any real inclination to address or deal with the negatives.

Ultimately history’s debt will have to be repaid one way or another, and the trending towards social services, at the expense of personal liberties, and the overall standard of income, certainly is not a cause célèbre when the masses get increasingly poorer, and are granted fewer and fewer choices and options.

Every person has got to make their own choice, and most will fight for and make excuses for their masters.

I am however my own Master, and I will make no excuses for my self or anyone else’s Master, the world is fatally flawed and is rapidly reaching a pivotal day of reckoning that people who do truly value freedom and choices and a quality of life and life at all, are probably doing themselves an injustice to make excuses for and deny.

My contributions are far more significant than the simple every day things people can do, but the truth is, when people won’t even do the simple everyday things they can do, like stop shopping at Wal-Mart and spend their money at local mom and pop businesses making or selling local products instead, then well, they certainly aren’t going to do anything more significant.

I plan to fight for a better world, and do so for myself, and my children, and all the people of the world, not just the selfish, and self absorbed, indifferent percentage that does have it relatively good but for the people living in hells that we have created for them through this system of raping resources and hording them, by acquiring them in the most fraudulent and cruelest of means.

What Rome has really given us is a morality that borders on and often is repugnant when it comes to indifference and blind acceptance, and selfishness, and there will be a tremendous price to be paid for that.

Unless we change it, you might have little respect for people who care enough to try, in small or great ways, but they don’t do these things for accolades or the respect of people who most don’t even know how to begin respecting themselves, as they make their excuses for tyrants and despots that rule over them with a similar indifference and cruelty, only greater than the masses, whose thinking has been infected by it.

They do it because it is morally the right thing to do, and they are not so selfish or narrow in their world view.

Joseph Stalin once said, people are like chickens, you can pluck all their feathers and leave them defenseless and naked, even able to fly away, but they will scamper about happily at your feet for a few kernels of corn.

Your post reminds me of that.

The world can be made a far better place, there are more than abundunt resources and technology to deliver them.

Morally we have lost our way, and I would be loathe to make excuses for that.

I see it as a great shame, and a potentially very deadly one to us all, and it is a very deadly one already for people starving to death around the world every day, and people being killed in wars of conquest every day.

Glad you like it, and will accept it, if it truly makes you happy, but I never have, and never will, and have spent my whole life, dedicated to trying to make the world a better place in big ways and small.

I do it for one simple reason...

Because I can, and any one who thinks they can't?

I would challenge them to try to upgrade the quality of their thinking.

Thanks.

[edit on 30/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by Dock9
This will sound dumb most likely, but that's ok. Someone has to ask. I did ask earlier, but not much response. So let's try again ...

Fine and good re: Rome and it's being exposed

But what's to be done about it ? In practical terms. And that's if even one third of the world were to agree that yes, much of what's happening to day appears to be using the Roman model

Live without electricity ?

Withdraw money from banks ?

Refuse to obey the military machine or to participate within it ?

Try to get enough people locally (your local, my local) to adopt a barter system ? When most live in urban areas and have lost the skills needed to produce anything to barter with ?

IMHO none of the above is actually necessary.

As the 'general population' becomes more and more 'aware' (it's happening), these things will occur naturally.

A conscious person simply cannot join the armed forces.
A conscious organization cannot rob it's dependents and customers for profit.
A conscious society will re-discover means of generating electricity from nature, which does not destroy nature.
Members of a conscious community will not work for money, they will work for the love of what they do and what they contribute.

I know how utopian this sounds, but it is indeed happening.

The tighter the screws of restriction and control are turned, the more the movement for freedom gains momentum.

We may well go on to destroy much of what we have now and billions may well die, but I don't believe it is a certainty. Even if it happens, so what? Live or die, it's an exciting time.

Personally, I believe the most important thing to focus on right now is your internal state, your conscious awareness. That's at least true for me.

I understand many feel the need to 'stand up and declare themselves Spartacus', to organise and bring down the order. I applaud them, the martyrs, and I wish them all the love.

But it's not my game. I prefer the way of the Italian army: retreat whilst facing forward.

On the outside, look like you're playing the game. Pay the taxes if you can't find a way not to. Use the bank account. Tip your hat to the law enforcement officer. At the same time, you quietly disappear inside.

Although I have felt the dread, I am not afraid
Times they are a changing - it'll all be alright on the night.
I know this to be true, just as PT knows that Rome runs the world.

xx

reply to post by Dock9


"If this is the best of all possible worlds, what are the others?"
- Voltaire, Candide

we have no other options besides various ones within this system ?

Originally posted by Dock9
This is one the of the best times, for the average person, in recorded history

Although I agree on some levels, most of our material world choices and freedoms are illusions. Yeah, you are free to wear purple if you'd like, but try to really break free, and they just might try to crush you. Don't you think that it would be possible to stop paying dues to Rome and TPTB, without becoming a whipped slave mining underground?

I think we should bring consciousness and awareness into the world around us. Actually, when you yourself are conscious it will spread like a disease, breaking down the illusions. Wether you'd prefer to fight like Spartacus or Gandhi, I support your fight. But I agree that a non-violent fight is the most ideal, because we should put our money where our mouths is. If we were to fight for our lives, and die as martyrs, they could and would easily obscure our goals and intentions, and we would just be another piece in their puzzle. If we stand strong, exposing them in a non-violent way, we have a better chance of spreading the information and winning the battle.

I have been taking some time to look at Roman history more deeply.

I think it is quite possible that the inner workings of the Catholic church hold Caesar as the true Christ. That point I can believe.

However I don't believe that Rome wrote the old testament, or even the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Why attempt to rewrite such a document. There is far too much evidence that supports many events. The existence of many civilizations and their differing religions and cultures is too complete to claim that Rome created it all. First of all, Rome's influence was limited to the Mediterranean. The influence of the Catholic Church only maintained its influence over Europe for a few centuries, and Science has pushed aside a great many of the beliefs put into place by the Catholic Church.

If you read the Gospel of Jesus Christ, it is easy to see that Christ was completely against the bankers/money exchangers. That part was kept to fool people into believing that the Catholic Church truly had their best interest at heart. They simply twisted the teachings by including, and possibly writing, the letters of the Apostle Paul, which completely changes the meanings of the Gospel.

It would have been too great of a task to attempt to completely re-write history, and far more easier to twist it to their liking, which is what has been done, and continues to be done in our schools to this day. A great deal of truth about history is still out there.

As far as Rome's descendency from Troy is concerned, I think it was much more a desire to claim such a lineage than a reality. When Rome was just beginning as a city state, the Greeks were the dominant civilization in much of the Mediterranean at the time. Greek influence of Rome was substantial, and the two civilizations were very much entwined, so it is easy to see how Rome's leaders would have liked to claim a lineage to Troy. The thing is, according to the legends, the Trojans spoke Greek, and were Greeks. Romans spoke Latin, and there is considerable evidence that the Latins were there own separate tribe. I also do not see any evidence that Troy was the first civilization after the flood.

What I do see is many parallels to the Roman Republic in the early development of the U.S..

What I also see is a sustained effort to turn the U.S. into an empire by intentionally trying to recreate similar events that morphed the Roman republic into a corrupt empire.

This is being accomplished by establishing continuous wars for the U.S. to fight. By constantly keeping our armies in the field, they become alienated from the public.

The other more important step is to corral the people into large urban centers, making them completely dependent on the system.

The last effort is to create a sizable slave population, which is being accomplished through illegal immigration.

These are the changes to the Roman Republic that lead to it becoming an empire.

I don't think this is necessarily something that the Roman Church is trying to accomplish, but others who simply desire the power and control that those who once ran the Roman empire enjoyed.

I think trying to blame current events on the Roman Church is smoke and mirrors, a diversion from the more obvious culprits, the International Corporations who are behind all the efforts.

Dropping out of the system is not the answer. Getting involved and taking back control of the Democratic Republic that is the U.S. is the only way to solve current problems. These efforts to re-establish control of the masses by the elites have been tried again and again, and they have been for the most part in recent history, consistently thwarted by common people coming together to take back control of the government.

Dropping out was the foolish pursuit of the hippies in the sixties. It didn't work for them, and it won't work now.

poet1b
Very logical interpretation.

reply to post by poet1b


There you go.

Very nicely said and I completely agree with you.

Good post poet1b But I have some questions regarding this statement:

Originally posted by poet1b

Dropping out of the system is not the answer. Getting involved and taking back control of the Democratic Republic that is the U.S. is the only way to solve current problems. These efforts to re-establish control of the masses by the elites have been tried again and again, and they have been for the most part in recent history, consistently thwarted by common people coming together to take back control of the government.

Dropping out was the foolish pursuit of the hippies in the sixties. It didn't work for them, and it won't work now.

How do we go about taking the power back through the institutions they in fact built and control? Would you for example suggest we revolutionize the financial sector, or should we still keep paying "taxes" to Rome in gratitude of this fine system they have made for us?


The hippies could have reached further if not for some pretty sneaky behind-the-scenes workings of TPTB. Yes, the hippie movement was stopped, but what they achieved in regards to personal freedoms, which still applies today, should not be over looked. When the system is rotten, I think we need to change the system, or at least what's wrong with it. But then again, many are satisfied with bread and circus.

I'm getting of the carbohydrates, and think clowns are just silly

reply to post by TheNorthernLight


Sadly my friend, what many people who place faith in the notions of Constitutional Government and Institutions here in the United States are tragically unaware of, is that they myths and dogmas of the founding of the nation and the effectiveness of it’s institutions in ever safeguarding our freedoms or constitution were compromised from the very start.

As I went into detail on this thread here regarding the founding of the nation as an incorporated entity under London and Rome and our enslaving system of taxation and what it is really for and about, and who it goes too, the very insititutions some poorly studied people would turn to for salvation, are the very institutions set up to exploit them and condemn them from the start, and contracted too Rome from the start.

It's very much like turning to your jailer to help you escape from prison.

This diminished form of understanding is primarily from an educational system crafted by the government that is designed to either omit or misconstrue facts and events to sell people false illusions and notions, that are then further obscured by attempting to further distract them by base entertainments like circuses, staged for them, and a welfare system designed to create the illusion that the government is giving people something of value especially in extreme circumstances like their health and welfare.

Yet as I demonstrated in this thread
here

The government conspires with corporate entities to create a pricing structure for services that really just cost pennies that place such a stratospheric price on them, that people do have to turn to other corporations or the government to tap into specifically pooled assets that have been taxed or surrendered, to pay the artificial exorbitant high cost of such services, which have been manipulated in that fashion, so people can’t pay for it themselves and then are wholly dependent on the Government or Corporate entity in order to access those services, priced deliberately to be beyond their individual and independent reach.

Because we suffer for the large part in mass, from such dogmatic and faulty problem solving abilities through substandard government provided education and obfuscations, the masses then turn to the very corrupt institutions that have created these problems to enslave them, for a solution to the dilemma that the government created, who then just finds a way to further tax or enslave them as a result.

It is that diminished capacity to solve problems on the part of the average person that allows them to imagine that the placebos and band aides that government then administers are seeming solutions that benefit them, while all that happens is the problem is constantly growing worse and the people more enslaved.

The first step to actually defeating this system is raising people’s level of awareness, but sadly many people who start to be exposed to the enormity of the deceptions and problems, through better and more detailed information, lack the acumen or faith in themselves or even desire in general, to then start addressing problems at their root core, in a way that would actually make a real and helpful difference and create a more reasoned, fair and empowering system for the individual.

They typically will fall back on the dogmas that the institutions once worked to do something besides progressively enslave them, and turn to them as a solution, while pretending that what history tells them were yesterdays solutions that worked once upon a time, that often never even existed in the first place, except as distorted myth, will aide them again, by being reliant on those institutions being some how able to return to that orderly function, they never functioned as to begin with, while turning to the same elitist class of people to fix that institution and restore its fictional previous vitality, which they then trust them to do, and run out to enjoy what bread and circuses are being currently offered.

It’s a circular cycle of pseudo revolution, when revolution of course means just revolving through the same old nightmare that momentarily starts out as a dream, and then gives way to a nightmare.

That cycle of course can only be broken through evolution, and not revolving through the same purposefully dysfunctional institutions and dogmatic mythical solutions, that brought them poverty, dependence and enslavement to begin with.

Yet because this instilled notion, that institutions set up to enslave, and to rob, and to lie, really weren’t and aren’t, and coupled with these dogmatic notions that they can be restored to something they never were, it becomes easy for people with a diminished reasoning capacity and poor logistical grasp, to applaud people who imagine this process might yield different results, if approached in the prescribed ways, that offer them absolution, but are also designed to perpetuate and worsen the problem!

There isn’t much one can do in those situations beyond continually putting the truth out there for such people, and hoping that at some point they will get tired of hitting their head against the proverbial wall, and getting progressively worse results for their efforts.



[edit on 30/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Hi Protoplasmic...

I just wanted to state that i think your theory is interesting.. but I am not concoorrding on the part about where you say that the christ sect came from the british region of europe and became what is known today as christianity.

I beleive there is much more to the story!!

This was much like how david icke was simplifying the new testament as being written by piso and pliny.. I don't beleive it is that simple. don't you think?? I am willing to sit down and read what you have to say about this but i beleive you paid little attention to how christianity started where it came from.. If you want to say that Paul was a roman agent yes i will sit down and listen.. but the meat behind the story is not presented in your essay..

Understanding the True Place of the Mystery Religion

One of the things that make the mystery religion so mysterious and a matter of so much conjecture and concern for most people is because they truly don’t understand the nature of pagan religions, because of the concept of what religion is as put forth by Rome, Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

When I say they don’t understand the nature of the pagan religions, it’s not that they don’t understand the names of some of the gods, but they don’t understand really what it meant or was like to be in those cults.

Gods Are Not Santa Clause

Most peoples earliest religious related experiences with Christianity is Christmas, the holiday of giving that is arguably the most important religious event, and the most commercialized on the Christian calendar.

Little wide eyed children full of excitement and wonder, are told this holiday of gift giving, where they make wishes and even write out lists of what they would like from Santa is all to celebrate Jesus of Nazareth’s birth, the key and central figure to Christianity.

This teaches and instills an early and formative experience, where children define God through prayers, which are wishes, similarly to Santa, who grants wishes through a similar process, of asking, who then manifests these things for them (hopefully) all because of Jesus and God.

Moral to the story, God will grant your wishes and make any day potentially Christmas if you follow certain moral laws, and are deemed worthy by an all powerful God, who can magically make things appear.

This Was Not What Pagan Gods Were About

Not then and not now, understanding the pagan gods is very similar to what the Catholic Saints are for most Catholics, and that is they each had specific attributes and functioned as a patron for people engaged in those professions, or dependent upon those types of things.

They were more about individual philosophies and approaches to life.

If you were a farmer, you worshipped Ceres, and part of that worship was learning how to be a good farmer, to be in touch with the land, how to cultivate it, be in harmony and make things grow. That is what people looked to do well and emulate and then celebrate and if they emulated and performed those things well, they believed it was because they were doing those things properly and that the God was pleased, and if they failed, it meant to try harder, because the God wasn’t pleased.

If you were a sailor you worshipped Poseidon in a similar cult, you wanted to learn all about the sea and navigation and tides, and how to respect that element. Once again if you did well, it meant the God was pleased if you did poorly it meant they weren’t.

If you were a merchant you worshipped Mercury, by learning the fine art of the deal, and how to spot a good opportunity, and set fair but profitable prices, and manage and inventory.

In other words, all these cults were schools of thought, and collective knowledge in how to perform a critical task, that your life or living was dependent on.

Sometimes depending on what you did, it meant being in the cults of several gods and learning the correct way to live in accordance with the doctrines that would make those professions and endeavors successful in human terms.

Yes people believed each God had a spirit that would help them if they did things correctly, or hurt them if they didn’t, but they weren’t viewed as Santa Clause, they were viewed as teachers, and espousers of vital life and coping skills.

In other words people simply felt that a large degree of fate was left up to those gods, call it the luck of the draw.

The Fear Is

Because Christians believe an all powerful God that is just espousing some basic moral laws, is all powerful, who doesn’t teach or espouse any life skill besides following a general moral code that benefits Rome, and that he grants wishes as Santa Clause does, they generally want to ascribe that same potential concept of power to these other Gods.

Think of Pagan Gods as a Club

Like the Kiwis or Rotors, Moose or Elk.

They really are just specific schools of thought, were instead of focusing on broad moral based law, people are focused on what attributes that God stood for and watched over.

For instance a playboy might see himself as Bachian in nature, the Bacchus sect, and his focus in life is learning all about romance and philandering, and how to bed and woo.

Someone whose main focus is on Wisdom or Philosophy might choose Apollo, because these are things he emulated and cherished, and the person in that cult or club emulates and cherishes them too, and being in that club/cult with other people who emulate and cherish them, is a way to network and share ideals on those things. Much the way Christians, Jews or Muslims will network and share ideas and ideals with people in their Churches, Mosques, and Temples.

Why there is No Reason to Fear This

Wiccan and pagan cults of today, the kind that congregate at Stonehenge on the solstices are really just celebrating a love of nature, and a belief in spirituality.

They have no great magic, though some of them have learned to use the power of the mind, through some rituals to unleash everyone’s own God like power to manifest things.

The school of thought, for some is these other Gods might be real, and have magical powers, or even come from some other planet or dimension and will aide the people who worship them.

The truth is they aren’t worshipping these Gods in the Santa Clause way; they are emulating the virtues and philosophies of these gods, in a LIFESTYLE way.

Yes, just like Gays, Bikers, Swingers, and even Evangelical Christians have a ‘lifestyle’ these people’s lives are focused on what these Gods offered in the way of specific wisdom to a certain profession, or entertainment, or way of life.

That Pagan God simply represents their lifestyle, and their fascination with it, only resembles their earthly inclination to see a value in that God’s ancient wisdom and teaching geared towards highly specialized thing.

The Christian God is a one size fits all, all season, all purpose God, with Santa Clause like powers.

These other Gods aren’t and never were seen as that, but simply teachers of wisdom and skill that applied to specialized areas, that people could celebrate, and then ascribe their fates, and successes and failures to that God.

Much like some people see a value in reading the farmer’s almanac; some people see a value in following those ancient schools of thought and traditions, more along the lines of a club, much like MENSA.
For the people high up in the Roman power structure, who know that Christianity is just a myth, learning of and respecting the much more utilitarian wisdom and knowledge geared to precise aspects of life, that these ancient cults were about is something, that well, anyone of us might find a value in.

The Gods Themselves Aren’t Out There.

They don’t exist, what does exist is the wisdoms and knowledge handed down from the priestly class that has a real utilitarian value to people who are in highly specialized endeavors.

Jack of All Trades Master of None!

The Christian God is really just a master of morality and moral laws, it offers no specialized knowledge or wisdom to people in certain professions or lifestyles, and because of that, people who have a real desire to learn everything in the way of wisdom and knowledge regarding certain professions, endeavors and lifestyles can and sometimes do turn to ancient wisdom and teachings on how to succeed in those things, and maximize your chance for success.

It really is that simple.

Understanding Can Eliminate Needless Fears

Knowledge is power, while fears are imagined and debilitating, the people in these cults/clubs are really just searching for the knowledge of how to succeed at certain things, and lifestyles, that Christianity and Rome suppressed from the masses to keep people from succeeding in order to make them dependent on the State for guidance and sustenance instead.

When you realize these Gods aren’t Santa Clause and each had specific very narrow functions and attributes prescribed to them, that the priestly class formulated into successful ways to interact and coexist within that element or area, there is really nothing to fear.

Santa Clause isn’t real folks. Santa Clause is just people giving to other people. That’s what these other cults are about, people just giving to other people.

Giving knowledge that’s been suppressed, that Rome wanted to suppress for the sake of enslaving the masses, and imposing a Religious based moral law.

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Edit to add: TO ALL CHILDREN READING ATS!

SANTA IS REALLY REAL!

I was just making up those things about Santa to tease your parents!

Thanks!

[edit on 30/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Well said PT , i thnk many confuse the Roman Catholic Church and the Roman Empire itself.

Great Post