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All Roads Lead to Rome

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posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 06:48 AM
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reply to post by Josephus23
 



Josephus 23,

This is fascinating ....


If you are arrested for a code or a statute violation, which is unconstitutional to do to a live person BTW.., then request a COURT REPORTER, and when you get one, then kindly ask the judge "in what type of court is my trust being charged?"

They will either drop the case immediately, if it IS ON THE COURTS RECORD, or you go to guantanamo.


I dont recall in entirety but someone told me years ago that the Judges do not like written records made of proceedings...such as a court stenographer. It allows them to be sloppy in their court proceedings and handling of cases. It also keeps the public ignorant of much.

You are the second person I have seen mention a steno in court cases as being important. It is often right out in front of us. A stone hidden in a field of stones.

Thanks for reminding me about the steno/court reporter.

Orangetom




posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 12:57 PM
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LOL Proto always the sensible one in a thread. I believe Christians in order to successfully be good little christians must 1st understand this, that Jesus Christ, Yeshu bin Josif, was a JEW; as in practicing JEW. " I am not come to change but to fulfill" was his own words; him being the "Christ". Once Christians understand that the son of man came to fulfill prophecy of Jewish, Torah, origin and that they are in fact Jewish then can they begin to see the truth of the Bible.

Any Christian who has not studied the Torah cannot understand Jesus the Christ. The Lord, mesiiah, was called Rabbi for a reason. It has also been rumored he read the Qumranic version of the scripture aka the dead sea scrolls. You cannot verbatim the Lord's teachings without understanding the context in which he spoke to the people of that time.

Proto you know I highly respect you and I agree with you on most points. Still the major players in Rome also include Jesus Christ and his renegade disciples. A new form of guerilla warfae is what I believe bin Josif was using in creating a following of the poor, to shake the foundations of Roman control and occupancy in Jerusalem. Take away the ppl from the Jewish leaders who answered to Roman authority and you rendered those same leaders obsolete to the Roman Hierarchy.

He nearly was successful after the temple money changer beatdowns he gave out, which subsequently had him killed. After bin Josif's death, or disappearance, his brother, not of the immaculate conception ahem of course, was assassinated while he acted to replace his brother as High Priest, aka son of God, with a rock dropped from up high while he prayed.

John the Baptist was assassinated for the same reason as James the Just except John was the High Priest while bin Josif was the King of the Jews, Davidic bloodline. When John the Baptist was killed to stop the "movement", bin Josif seemed to become both pillars, i forgot the name, and went rogue. Talk about thinking out of the box. King becomes High Priest. POPE is more like it lol.

So you see Christians, you are Jews and I wish you would begin to see that. Also if you are indeed christian you are not to judge any post or reply because your Lord demanded you do not judge. You are to show compassion to your lost brothers and sisters because the way unto the Lord is through the lord not you; you are but vessels and the Lord would never force his opinion. Like he said wipe your feet, and walk away.

Proto is mostly right beyond doubt, except the 322 Julius Caesar survival part. That is the only part on which this whole thread, theory and great piece, is shaken. Although plausible in a way, revisionist in another, it is weak. But still it doesnt take away from the main idea of the thread; ALL ROADS LEAD TO ROME. How can this be denied? Peace

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by fonenyc
 


I don’t know my friend. It would seem to me that people simply have an inherent need to believe in something bigger than them selves that they can attribute what they don’t know about life and the universe to.

When you consider the vastness of the planet, and the incredibly diverse people living on it during Christ’s time the relevance of ‘his’ story only really is through Rome pushing it at the point of a sword and the barrel of a gun.

Still as I say, people seem to have an inherent need to not only believe in something, but to further have the peace of mind of validation in what they believe in as being ‘correct’ and sensible.

In other words to simply not be wrong, or at least visibly wrong in the eyes of others in a way that might cause them to lose face or identity or respect.

I liken it very much to a criminal or liar, who starts down that path of deception or crime, where ultimately another lie must be told to support the first one and keep it from coming to light, and another crime must be committed to support the first one to keep it from coming to light, and then so on and so forth, until you have an endless series of lies and or crimes, now many times worse than the original one.

When you look at all the disparate and different cultures spread throughout the globe at the time of Christ, what you see is a vast array of different cultures with different lifestyles, and different beliefs and systems, that in reality the presumed son of a harsh and Spartan dessert God thousands and tens of thousands of miles away in one small area should have had no bearing.

Nor would it have had Rome not propagated it in typical Roman militant fashion forcing those who stood in the way of it to convert or die, and drawing fixed borders where might was not sufficient to make these notions right.

While many people throughout history have carried out conquests and expansions and enterprises in the ‘name of their lord’, none has a signed ‘hall pass’ from him/her/it, that suggests this is what ‘their lord’ actually wanted.

That it remains relevant is simply because an entire system of governance and reality has been meticulously built up around it and maintained.

While its origins may not be distinctly Roman, clearly at the top of that pyramid sits Rome and the Vatican who had they not been so pushing it, and manipulating it, the tales of this God and his son would have likely long passed into obscurity.

The evidence for this God actually existing, in anything close to the form or manner in which it is purported to is essentially non-existent except in the form of books that people are extolled ‘not to question’.
It all simply plays off a genuine fear of the unknown and a deep seeded on most people’s part to make sense of a universe that they are unable to make sense of, in large part, because of the beliefs that are instilled in them beginning at the youngest and most formative stages.

We could argue to the end of eternity about it’s significance its veracity its wisdom but the truth is we have been arguing for millennia over that and few have truly benefited in the long run from this as even those individuals conquerors and schemers who have brazenly and perhaps insidiously used “God’s will” to justify their thefts and crimes, typically just end up surrendering the booty in one fashion or another the state or it’s incorporated arms, that then come to control it, everything and us through this whole system.

Without the ‘God’ in question actually weighing in to settle the score, what you basically have is a system of government that is akin, to mom and dad leaving the house for the afternoon and asking the kids to behave nicely and look out for one another, and the biggest and strongest and most dominant simply terrorizes their siblings into submitting and acquiescing to them in all things, where at best they can do, is say “Wait until Mom and Dad get back and find out what you have done”.

Rome is simply that brazen and dominant child using might and determination to dominate aided by a system of reality and governance that it set up that basically leaves most people with nothing but “Well wait until God gets back and finds out what you have done”.

As one millennia turns to another, and one age turns to another, at some point, I think it really would behoove the people of this world, to maybe have the maturity and dignity to say “Wait a minute, I don’t think they are coming back, there must be a better way”.

Yeah fear of the unknown is scary at times, and having to accept that you are wrong is never a pleasant endeavor for most people, but for people all over the world to literally bind themselves into these ancient and arcane practices and beliefs with no possible chance for independent and conclusive evidence to even remotely suggest it’s wise, at some point they are going to suffer terribly for the folly of their indulgence in this regard.

Many could make a strong case for the fact that for millennia people have been dying horribly and robbed of their dignity and self determination in the process to indulge these people who really have pushed this all on us by the point of a sword, a barrel of a gun, and a collective herd mentality.

Honestly, its so suspect as to be almost insane, and I for one reject it as really being non-relevant to the system that an endless series of despots and bad managers and thieves and conquerors have used to relegate us all to mediocrity, various forms of slavery and perpetual ignorance, that basically just denies us the opportunity to find out real and better answers, a real quality of life, and peace on earth.

Rome needs to fall, and this system of worship really needs to be done away with as the incredibly destructive, deceptive and harmful thing, people have simply been programmed into not seeing or saying.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:03 PM
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Very well said Proto- I agree and yet still my post stands; although you negated the divine claim, the enigma of bin Josif still is credible. I dont wish to argue for or against God, as you told me everyone walks their own path, Im saying bin Josif was a player in Rome.

I believe Rome formulated myth and adopted Pagan worship around this man's story to control the people by creating two religions out of 1. To put bin Josif in opposition to the Jewish Law and adopt other laws. But the story was handed down by the believers/followers.disciples,witnesses orally, Rome just created the mythology and the rituals to pervert it, around it. Protestants had it right like Martin Luther.

I wouldnt shut the door on one possibility because I feel another is more tangible to me. You yourself say you do not know if the Julius Caesar survival story is true. That is -no pun intended- robbing Peter to pay Paul when the story is similar to bin Josif's supposed ressurection.

My belief is in " I think therefore I am" -Rene Descartes- after that everything else is opinion and understood but not proven fact. That way I can accept alien ideas and be as objective as possible. "stand for nothing fall for anything" is my fear so I feel God is the answer at times. Because Self although most tangible to me, isnt solid enough a foundation unless I created ALL myself. Then I am a microcosm in a vast existence, and who am I to impede anyone's goals, good or bad? Unless life has purpose, I am to find my own and it has nothing to do with the world around except for my own personal survival.

No man can tell me truth only aid me in finding mine. Rome must be destroyed yes. But faith is the most powerful weapon to be used and be used against. What are we fighting for if the enemy is ROME? That is the answer Peace


reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



edit on 7-12-2010 by fonenyc because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 03:16 PM
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Julius Caesar's Triumph in Rome..!


Keep in mind what the futur can bring...




posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by mick1423
 


great post oh man that is an incredible thread. while i love most of it i cannot accept your theory in which you try to debunk christianity.

while in my studies and the conclusions to which i've come. the bible (torah) new testament we are to follow no king, but God. God wanted no king, but the israelites insisted hence king saul.

also the bible does not teach original sin and that man was created imperfect(this is a catholic teaching). while it does say that man sins, we are to turn from our sins and follow Christ. we are called to be perfect, fore christ was the example and answer to the old testament prophesies. it in no way states that we cannot be perfect, for the Christ was all man and all God, but most importantly all man.

although i will follow you that christianity at it's core died with the birth of the roman catholic church. for it is the seat of the morning star. who was given rule over this earth. your post only strengthened my faith by showing me the connection between the zionist elite bankers and english royalty.

the sign that Catholicism was the death of true Christianity, look no further than the change of the day of worship, fore in doing so it changed the holy commandment of God to keep the 7th day holy or the sabbath which to this day is embedded in most languages to be saturday. (which of course is why the jews worship on saturday)

all in all the only thing the christ did was abolish sacrificing in atonement for sins. he did not away with the law. for the law of God is above the law of man. ten simple rules that if all the world obeyed(even the elite) would lead utopian civilization.

once again i applaud you on this great thread and the proof of how the morning star has worked through the generations. absolutely amazing.. wow that research would have taken me ages.
edit on 7-12-2010 by stuncrazy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by stuncrazy
 


All credit most go to ProtoplasmicTraveler, he decoded it all and his research results, revealed in this thread, motivated many of us to help him dig even deeper. The amount of time and energy Proto invested in here is phenomenal and his willingness to share it all with us is remarkable and honourable.

He keeps explaining, over and over for everyone interested, to help all to easily understand, all the complexity of the secret society of the Roman Empire, don't hesitate to ask him anything, he is very generous of his time and passionate, we are all teammates here, together we work to find even more about Rome and expose it all here...

Note that this thread is not about the religious aspect of Rome but about the Ancient Roman Empire that never fell. Rome went into the shadow to control the Empire and avoid this way, direct rebellions. The Vatican, conquered kingdoms and corrupted organisations and Rome's secret societies, are all secret Legions of Rome, used to control the Empire. Now resources and technologies gave Rome what it needed to complete Rome secret agenda..., unify under the light of day, the world under a One World Empire. Divide and conquer and Order into chaos always were the preferred strategies of Rome so near future risk to almost look like Armageddon...unless we succeed to defeat Rome..!

Welcome aboard my friend..!


edit on 7-12-2010 by mick1423 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 10:10 PM
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Today, many discovering that they have been bound into contracts without full disclosure perceive this as a deceitful tactic. Apparently, this is not a new trend. Just because you have no understanding of "legalese" does not mean these contracts cannot be enforced. Rome started it with the "Requirements of 1513".





A member of the conquistador’s force would read El Requerimiento in Castilian before a group of Indians on the shore, who, with or without translation, remained uncomprehending. All the region’s inhabitants were thus considered to have been advised of Spain’s religious and legal rights to conquest and forewarned of the consequences of resisting. The true nature of the Spanish Requirement, however, was one of absolution; the symbolic act of reading the document relieved the crown and its agents from legal and moral responsibility for the conquest, enslavement and killing of Native Americans. Readings were often dispensed with prior to planned attacks.

en.wikipedia.org...



Christianity is not what it seems. It would appear that it is a psych ops for political power.




In the conquest of the Americas, the Christian duty to evangelize non-believers took form of (often forced) conversion of Indians and other pagans, at the hands of Roman Catholic priests. Christianity was also used to justify the state’s policy of enslavement of Indians, and the pacification of native communities who resisted.

To the European mind, the lands of the New World belonged to no one, and could therefore be seized.
...
The conversion of pagan natives to Christianity was the rationale for and legitimized Spain’s conquests. The Pope, being the recipient of divine authority and having the obligation to propagate the faith, empowered Spain to conquer the New World and convert its peoples. Thus “informed” by the Spanish, the Indians had to accept the supremacy of the Catholic Church and the Spanish Crown. The state was authorized to enforce submission, by war where necessary.



I would venture a guess that Rome is the unification and origin of all the various religions and cults.




As the Spanish Requirement matter-of-factly sets forth, so brazenly from five centuries’ retrospect, God created heaven and earth, and the first man and woman from whom all are descended. God directed St. Peter to establish the Roman Catholic Church. St. Peter’s descendant, the Pope, lives in Rome. The Pope has given the New World territories to the King of Castile and directed the conversion of the Indians




It would seem to me that having collaborated and tailored "the book", that Rome expects to fall as the book of Revelation focuses on a major change taking place. As Rome has created this expectation, does it not seem to reason that it has been planned for and that Rome itself will be behind whatever transformation is scheduled to take place?

Not only does Rome hold all religions and cults in it's pocket, as it is the originator, but also the various societies, all educational facilities---colleges and universities are owned by the religions, the medical industry---hospitals---are all owned by religions which have now merged under corporate umbrellas, and all the various network of social clubs which base their creed on "christianity" (You can't even join the Y without signing that you agree with christian based principles!) and various non-governmental organizations that claim interfaith with christianity as basis. Rome has a very strong network in place to establish the NWO.



Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Rome needs to fall, and this system of worship really needs to be done away with as the incredibly destructive, deceptive and harmful thing, people have simply been programmed into not seeing or saying.



Proto, with Rome being the trickster that it is, what with "appearing" to have fallen in the past, but in reality only devising a way to cloak itself, how can we be sure that Rome will not simply undergo a facelift this time and appear in a benevolent form, fooling everyone once again? How do we know that Rome is not controlling it's own "destruction" in order to implement a new agenda?



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 10:48 PM
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Originally posted by Alethea
Today, many discovering that they have been bound into contracts without full disclosure perceive this as a deceitful tactic. Apparently, this is not a new trend. Just because you have no understanding of "legalese" does not mean these contracts cannot be enforced. Rome started it with the "Requirements of 1513".

Christianity is not what it seems. It would appear that it is a psych ops for political power.

I would venture a guess that Rome is the unification and origin of all the various religions and cults.



Excellent Post Alethea !!

I would only say that Rome is the ORIGIN and unification of all the various religions and cults, perhaps other than general Hindu/Asian beliefs.

I also say that the "New World" was really the "New Target" ...
after Europe was "solidified".
It was perhaps the greatest Roman style conquest ...
the populations of "Spanish" America is now larger that "English" America (I think).

Great Post !!



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by Alethea

Proto, with Rome being the trickster that it is, what with "appearing" to have fallen in the past, but in reality only devising a way to cloak itself, how can we be sure that Rome will not simply undergo a facelift this time and appear in a benevolent form, fooling everyone once again? How do we know that Rome is not controlling it's own "destruction" in order to implement a new agenda?



I completely agree that "Rome" (under many cloaked names) does this from time to time for economic reasons. Various "religions" have been the "front bumper" for all such "facelifts". Recent and current actions however seem to be more "economic" based, as most people are already "sewn in" religiously. But then again, the current "Islam" movements may be the "mask".

They learned the "how to" from the pre-Roman Elite Merchant Class that brought the ideas to Rome in the first place, perhaps as part of a "plan" that dates back many 1000's of years before "Rome".

Maybe we can explore some examples of "nations" and "cultures" that have "climaxed" and then became completely devastated by "economic" wars and financial "catastrophes".

Egypt possibly being one of the first major "facelifts" (i.e "Ancient Egypt" transitioning to Roman Egypt" and slowly but surely becoming "today's Egypt"). there are hundreds of examples spanning many thousands of years ... most having similar "rise and fall" patterns.



posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 11:57 PM
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this link gives a snapshot of three "cultures" that had been infiltrated, "economized" and eventually "cannibalized" by the Elite Merchants ... and then "facelifted" to our "ROME".



www.bible-history.com...



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 12:08 AM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Good find...

Sadly, America is next



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 04:17 AM
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Just wondering, considering that the OP traces a direct line of descent from Rome to all modern secret societies, particularly Freemasonry, via Caesar (not that he even survived the assassination attempt...) has anyone here looked into the Roman Collegia?



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by Extant Taxon
Just wondering, considering that the OP traces a direct line of descent from Rome to all modern secret societies, particularly Freemasonry, via Caesar (not that he even survived the assassination attempt...) has anyone here looked into the Roman Collegia?


That was a very interesting idea Extant Taxon for two reasons.

First it sets up the legal framework for an open conspiracy of at least three legal fictions (corporations).
(One giant corporation of several smaller corporations mind you, which can include people's "straw-men").

And two, that it is based upon the idea of the members of the collegia being "legal fictions", or not "real persons", but corporations.
It seems that the Roman Idea of consolidation of power through overt benevolent means has been a legal manifestation for many years now.
edit on 12/8/2010 by Josephus23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 09:19 AM
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reply to post by Josephus23
 


The reason I mentioned this is owing to the long standing speculation in many quarters that there was a direct line of descent from the Collegia, especially the Roman artificers who entered the British Isles around 55BC and brought all the tools, skills, and organisational accoutrements of building large structures. This doesn't mean I subscribe to the metatheory being put forward in this thread, I don't. However, if the Roman Collegia haven't been discussed before in relation to this it's a major omission.

www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...



There are three or four theories which hold that one may trace a certain tenuous continuity between the Roman collegia and modern Freemasonry.

One of these is the Dionysiac Artificers theory. This hypothesis was given the shape with which we are now familiar by Hyppolito Joseph Da Costa in his Sketch for the History of the Dionysian Artificers (published complete in instalment form in The Montana Mason beginning with November, 1921), and he was followed, and his arguments repeated, by The History of Freemasonry, drawn from authentic source of information; with an account of the Grand Lodge of Scotland, from its Institution in 1736 to the present time, compiled from the Records; and an Appendix of Original Papers, a famous old volume long attributed to Alexander Lawrie but now generally believed to have been written by Sir David Brewster. The essence of this theory is that these Artificers were employed - lodges of them, that is - in the building of King Solomon's Temple, and that they preserved the secrets of architecture until at last they transmitted them to such of the Roman collegia as practised that art.

At this juncture the equally well known Comacine theory comes in. According to this reading of the matter, as we may learn from Cathedral Builders, by "Leader Scott," and from Brother Ravenscroft's codicils to the same in his Comacines - Their Predecessors and Their Successors, a few of the Roman builders' collegia (collegia fabrorum) took refuge from the Barbarian invasions on or near Lake Como in Northern Italy and there kept alive a knowledge of building until such time as conditions had stabilized themselves and Europe had become ready for another civilization. When the barbarian peoples began to build their own cities and to lay out their highways these Comacini, so the theory has it, went here and there to teach the people the arts of building. They established schools, and acted as missionaries in general throughout the various countries of Europe, England included, all of which will be described in more adequate manner in a chapter to come.

The third of the theories that would connect the collegia with early Masonic guilds is that which Gould elaborates at some length in the first volume of his History, but without committing himself one way or the other. According to this theory, collegia entered Britain with the Roman army of conquest and were responsible for the cities, highways, dikes and churches, some remains of which are still in existence. When the Angles, Saxons and Danes made an end of the Roman civilization in the islands, the collegia continued to exist among them in a somewhat changed form, known as guilds. Among these guilds were those devoted to building and its allied arts, and out of these guilds there emerged in time those organizations of Masons who gave us Freemasonry. Some of the greatest historians in the world deny all this in toto - Freeman among them - while others accept it. A layman must make up his mind to suit himself.

Still another theory is that which connects the medieval guilds of Europe with the collegia that lingered late in and about Constantinople, or, as it was called, Byzantium. It is supposed that as these organizations of Byzantine builders came more and more into demand they moved gradually across Italy and on up into central Europe where they served as the seed out of which came the Teutonic guilds. According to the theory, it was from these Teutonic guilds that the Masonic guilds of England came, and it was out of the English guilds that Freemasonry emerged.


Google search results: Roman Collegia Freemasonry



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 09:56 AM
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reply to post by Extant Taxon
 


One of the interesting things about Londinium the Roman founded settlement now known as London, is that for a time after the Empire was presumed to have fallen it was abandoned and the areas nearby settled.

Eventually though those settlements were abandoned in favor of reinhabiting the Roman Ruins and it is this square mile that is actually the Official City of London where the Queen can not enter without permission and escort of the mayor and the Banking Industry is located. While as many as 200,000 people work in the City of London during the day, only about 5,000 people actually live in the City of London.

So for some reason Londinium was abandoned, then reoccupied and exists legally to this day as a CORPORATION itself, that is not physically considered property of England but a City State in it's own right, like the Vatican City and Washington DC, one where the English Monarch has no power to even enter without the expressed consent of the Mayor.

This settlement in fact dates back to Caesar's first visit while he was governor of Gaul.

It's an excellent suggestion to investigate the College perhaps you could put your estimable skills to use for us there?



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 10:19 AM
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I think the Roman Collegia is an excellent direction to focus ones efforts in unravelling some of the mystery. Here is a tid bit that I picked up in my travels. I wish I could remember the source, but it was so very long ago that I read this. Anyway...

When Constantine set about rebuilding the capital of Constantinople, and the rest of the Byzantine Empire, he started a new and unusual trend. Before this time, trades groups of such value as Masons were free and independent. Due to their unique talents, they were free citizens of the world, travelling around to what ever empire that needed their services. Thus, there traditions were devoid of any national or religious flavor. One of these traditions was the Mason Mark. The Mason Mark is the signature of the Mason who made a particular stone for a particular purpose. Typically, the mark was created by the mason himself and registered with the company of Masons under which he worked so that he could be compensated for any work done.

What Constantine had done that was unusual, was he made a decree that all Masons involved in the rebuilding of Constantinople and the Byzantine Empire had to convert to his new faith, and this had to be reflected in the Masons Mark as testimony to his conversion. As this was the greatest project in progress at the time, you wither converted, or you faced finding a new line of work. Finding a new line of work was of no use, because the decree fell on all trade guilds at the time.

As the Byzantine Empire grew and Flourished, the policy of convert or be conquered took shape. Neighboring Kingdoms who wished to retain their dominion quickly converted to Catholicism or faced trade sanctions, embargoes, or even military take over of their realms. With Constantine, the humble teachings of Jesus Christ became a tool by which nation upon nation fell under the boot strap of the New Roman Empire.

I'd love to help you guys out with the research, but my calling is a more spiritual one.

Keep up the good work.

With Love,

Your Brother


edit on 8-12-2010 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-12-2010 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Not sure about the validity of any "estimable skills" I I may have, but the possible link to the Roman Collegia has been looked at by a few:



“It is in Anglo-Saxon masonry where we witness the birth of modern speculative Freemasonry. While the tradition was dying out on the continent, British masonry was up to the task of transmitting the ancient legacy. We have now looked at the line of descent: from Roman collegia to the Culdees to the Benedictine monks and monastic associations to brotherhoods and guilds. The last of these—the guilds—which first appeared in the northern countries, Normandy, and England, offered an instant legal framework for trade organizations.”


- p. 180, "The Secret History of Freemasonry: Its Origins and Connection to the Knights Templars."

The above quote from the following book, available in PDF form here:

The Secret History of Freemasonry: It's Origins and Connections to the Knights Templar

The author's evidence is circumstantial and a tad light, but there are definite possibilities there. R.F. Gould in his History of Freemasonry also discusses the idea I think. Interested parties can look into it from there.



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by Extant Taxon
 


When you consider that our modern concepts and practices of law stem from Templar Law developed in the city of London, and the Knights Templar ties to the Seborgan Monestary and the Vatican then you have what is possibly a clear chain from classic Rome (Seborga) to modern Rome (the Vatican) to the Scottish Rites and London and Templar Law.

The long and short of it is this thread while providing ample opportunity for bread and circuses (snipes, gripes, points of contention and other intriques) also requires those availing themselves of these fine amenities to work towards the Thread's glory!

Free loading is strictly frowned upon! Those with research skills must be employed to that end and put to work from time to time until the next festival! Stoicism is encouraged and applauded when carrying out these sometimes tedious tasks for the glory of Rome.

The thread is everything, the individual member nothing, you have been assimilated!

Now lets keep that research coming on the Collegiate and Proto will start working on the next Festival!

Excellent work by the way, I am sure many of the participants will be appreciative of what you can turn up along these lines.



posted on Dec, 8 2010 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I have dertemined that those who own stock in the United States are in fact the people who shipped the human beings from Europe to build the infrastucture and trade. Stock is literally human stock! Bonds are loans to pay for the improvements and to keep the stock!






Immigrant Servants Database

The Immigrant Servants Database is a project designed to help Americans trace the European origins of their colonial ancestors. Historians estimate that more than 75% of colonists who settled south of New England financed their voyages to the New World as indentured servants, convict servants and redemptioneers. This project aims to identify all immigrants described by these terms in American and European sources from 1607 through 1820.

www.immigrantservants.com...


Price and Associates has done some phenomenal research into these records and the data base is being updated all the time. This is a *must see*.





Well, my relatives are not on the list so far, but I was able to trace my great great grandfather back to Fort William-Calcutta, West Bengal, India, so this does hold some personal intrigue for me. At the time of his christening, the British East India Company had been dissolved for about ten years.




The East India Company (also known as the East India Trading Company, English East India Company,[1] and, after the Treaty of Union, the British East India Company)[2] was an early English joint-stock company[3] that was formed initially for pursuing trade with the East Indies, but that ended up trading mainly with the Indian subcontinent and China. The oldest among several similarly formed European East India Companies, the Company was granted an English Royal Charter, under the name Governor and Company of Merchants of London Trading into the East Indies, by Elizabeth I on 31 December 1600.
...

Company rule in India, which effectively began in 1757 after the Battle of Plassey, lasted until 1858, when, following the events of the Indian Rebellion of 1857, and under the Government of India Act 1858, the British Crown assumed direct administration of India in the new British Raj. The Company itself was finally dissolved on 1 January 1874, as a result of the East India Stock Dividend Redemption Act.

The Company long held a privileged position in relation to the English, and later the British, government. As a result, it was frequently granted special rights and privileges, including trade monopolies and exemptions.

en.wikipedia.org...


It seems in some of the old documents 'Calcutta' is spelled 'Kolkata' and some of the records are through "Ecclesiastical Returns". (St. Peter's Church) The India Office Records are contained within the Oriental and India Office Collections of the British Library.

It appears that the British East India Company was referred to as the "John" company as it was first under John Goldsborough and later his successor, John Beard. There is an old thread here discussing the Opium trade which ties to the East India Company for those who expressed an interest in the Oriental aspects earlier: www.abovetopsecret.com...




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