It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

All Roads Lead to Rome

page: 157
607
<< 154  155  156    158  159  160 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 04:45 PM
link   
reply to post by IAMIAM
 





It does help clarify my friend, but I think your information is in error. I won't dispute it any more than I have already. What I will do is offer myself as a point of reference on the craft. All that I know and am not obligated to hold secret I will share with you if you like. To be clear, I am only not permitted to reveal our ritual work. The reason for this is it spoils the experience for those who may one day take the degrees.


One of the great things about ATS is it allows the members to network with a broad range of people, from all walks of life, from all kinds of cultures, religions and political systems from all over the world.

I know from my own personal experiences that there are some things that just aren’t in books, aren’t on TV or in documentaries, and as such most people just don’t have any kind of frame of reference for them.

We really are meticulously programmed in all areas of society and in all genres to adhere to certain constructs of reality, with often no real ability as a result to quantify or qualify or understand some things that on occasion fall outside the points of the compass.

I think it behooves us all though to at least listen and consider those things that might not have any mechanism for evidence, in part, just because we don’t know of something, or have anyway to prove something, does not mean that something doesn’t exist.

Masonry remains an enigma in many ways, even to those who practice the craft, because of its gradient scales of learning, and I imagine too, the nature of some of the things Masons are trying to comprehend.

I wouldn’t take that personally, since I gather, most Masons are in fact engaged in a constant and unending quest for more knowledge and understanding.




Besides the ritual work, there is a wealth of information that I can share. There are lectures which explain the symbols of the craft, there are the laws (like the Constitution I already provided above), and most important, there are experiences as a Mason. If you are interested with a sincere desire to learn, I will gladly share all of this. If however, you have already made up your mind that you know what the craft is all about, let me know and I will not waste my time.


I certainly don’t have anything against the Masons, especially those here on ATS. Many of them have selected me as a ‘friend’ on their friends list, and when I have questions that I feel one of the Mason members can answer, I never hesitate to reach out to them and ask, in a cordial spirit of friendship.

For instance early on in the thread (It’s first day) when it came to my attention I had published the thread on the Roman Holiday of Robigalia, and wanted more information on the Holiday, it was the Masons of ATS who I reached out to for more information. As I had hoped and anticipated they were able to give me more information on the Holiday and Robigus the God it is dedicated too.

I don’t view Masonry as a threat personally, yet to be completely honest I do think it has a purpose, a grand purpose whose time has not come yet.

What that purpose is I truly can not say, yet I don’t believe those who set up the movement set it up to just be a lingering question mark, but set it up as a means to an end.

Much the same way I believe Rome set up the Catholic Church to be a means to an end.

In our temporal, fluid and ever evolving world, nothing lasts forever, nor is anything meant to last forever, which is why I do believe such institutions are not set up just to exist, but rather to exist for a season and a reason.

When the season is over, when the reason is fulfilled then there is that evolution where it emerges from its previous cocoon having finally metamorphosed into that which it was designed to evolve into.

This is something you might want to consider, and that in no way implies anything inherently bad or evil, nor does it, or is it meant to denigrate any of the fine charitable acts the Masons undertake as individuals and lodges.

As you have said there is always a pyramid and it’s not always possible to know just who or what is at the top or their grand plans or intent.




For the record, I do believe there is a conspiracy to dominate the world. I do see it as being based out of Rome. I do believe the people of this world have become ensnared in a tyrannical empire. What I do not believe is jumping to conclusions and throwing the blame on institutions which exist outside it is any way to bring it down. The truth is, the top will never be uncovered. It exists by the will of the people. The only way to bring it down is by raising the will of the people to do so.


I agree there is a plan to dominate the world and it is based out of Rome as well.

I do though also believe that Rome has many different arms seemingly unconnected yet each fulfilling a specific purpose that serves Rome.

There is a better chance than not that if Rome has not destroyed it, and or allows it to exist, that it either serves Rome directly, or its existence serves Rome’s plans even though that organization or individual might not even know they serve Rome’s plans.

When it comes to the Masons I will say this. Though it might upset some people, if the Governments of the world were to collapse through rebellion or disaster, the halls of Government swept of those corrupt and imbecilic people who clutter them, and some form of order needed to be restored, in the way of basic security, basic services, and basic law, probably the only organization vast enough, with enough skilled people to fill the vacuum would be the Masons.

If I had to guess their ultimate purpose and function that would likely be it, the ability to create overnight more or less an improvised system of government that could step in and begin restoring order, vital services, security and basic law.

While many Masons like to discount its true potential, because of all the sinister accusations against it and fears of it, it really does have a true potential, and that is not necessarily a bad thing.

In many ways this thread is about seeing if the people are finally ready to come to terms with who and what is at the top of the pyramid or if they really do just prefer being constantly divided and conquered and distracted to insignificant and often detrimental ends.

I believe enough of them are ready to bet the bank on it, and roll the dice.

I would be delighted if the Masonic Brothers were on that same page, and to tell you the truth, I believe they are.

One thing is for sure though, is that this thread itself has seen far too much acrimony and bitter divisions and no small portion of rancor and enmity.

I really want to believe that we can all learn to respect our differences while embracing that which we share in common, a real desire to make the world a better place, and a real desire to get to the truth from the bottom to the top of who is running it this way and why.

Thanks for being a part of that.

edit on 2/12/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: spelling




posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 05:00 PM
link   
reply to post by IAMIAM
 


I have no leanings one way or the other regarding Freemasons, but I think we can all agree that Freemasonry has not been portrayed in a very good light lately. Do you think this could perhaps be attributed to deliberate attempts from the powers behind Rome to smear the organization? Whether Freemasons really are a threat to them or not, surely one can imagine how they might feel that a unified group of citizens bound by oath and devoted to good will and truth may be dangerous to them.

It’s very likely that they are giving freemasonry a bad image through the media to deflect attention away from the real powers running the world. It’s also possible that there may be corruption at the upper levels, but I think this mainstream fascination with painting Freemasons as evil is intentional, so that’s what I’m focusing on.

Also, I know you mentioned that the Grand Lodge is the supreme governing body and each one is completely independent, but do you know if high ranking members between jurisdictions may be connected in any other way? I vaguely recall hearing of a small and secretive society where only master masons were allowed to join. Now, that might not even be true, but I’m just wondering if you know if any societies or groups like that exist?



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 05:00 PM
link   

Originally posted by Josephus23
First and foremost, the framework for a secret society allows for bifurcation, or a dual purpose.
An inner circle that is inside the inner circle. A secret society inside of the secret society.


This is not only possible it is reality. Yes, I said it, this is reality. There have been secret societies who have abused the organisation of Freemasonry for nefarious purposes. For example, investigate the P2 scandal in Italy. When these things come to light, they are dealt with quickly.

Furthermore, there are secret societies which require membership in the craft as a prerequisite that have absolutely nothing to do with Freemasonry. I have been invited to join certain circles myself. I declined only because my path is taking me on a bit of a solo journey for now.

Freemasonry is not a secret society. As has already been pointed out by another poster, it is a society with secrets. While this can be and has been abused through out time, its self governing ways have always managed to steer it back on course.


Originally posted by Josephus23
Open freedom society, but secrecy.
And you have secrets, whether you admit it or not.


Yes we have secrets. So do you! Amongst your closest friends and family, you have things that you keep within that group. The freedom to assemble and form close nit bonds among which you can freely express yourself is evidence of a free society. This is why every tyrrant in the world which ruled his people with oppression has set out to disband Freemasonry from its domain. Do you really want to live in a society where you loose the freedom to assemble and maintain privacy amongst your closest friends?

In a lodge we do not discuss Politics or Religion. To do so is a violation of the must basic tenets of the craft. Therefore, it is easy to prevent the order from being used for such nefarious purposes, and equally easy to detect when it is.

What goes on in a Lodge is Freemasonry, thats it.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 05:46 PM
link   

Originally posted by Epiphron
I have no leanings one way or the other regarding Freemasons, but I think we can all agree that Freemasonry has not been portrayed in a very good light lately. Do you think this could perhaps be attributed to deliberate attempts from the powers behind Rome to smear the organization? Whether Freemasons really are a threat to them or not, surely one can imagine how they might feel that a unified group of citizens bound by oath and devoted to good will and truth may be dangerous to them.


I do not think it is an attempt to blemish the order by TPTB. I think it is plain and simply human nature. Freemasons are men, not saints. We try to be the best citizens we can be, follow our respective faith, raise a family, and give something back to our communities. However, we are people and will do things people will see as "bad". Here is an example.

I am currently wanted by the law. The charges I have against me involve marijuana possession, which I smoke for my ailments and believe I have a God given right to do so. I also have charges of driving on expired plates, fictitious plates, and finally no plates. All this was done simply because I could not afford the fees involved and needed to get to work. If and when I finally get apprehended and if the charges result in a conviction, I will be most likely suspended from the craft. Why? Because I will have brought ill repute to the craft. I understand this and support this. Freemasonry is not about politics. Anything that brings ill repute to the order is dealt with to preserve its good name.


Originally posted by Epiphron
It’s very likely that they are giving freemasonry a bad image through the media to deflect attention away from the real powers running the world. It’s also possible that there may be corruption at the upper levels, but I think this mainstream fascination with painting Freemasons as evil is intentional, so that’s what I’m focusing on.


I have not seen all this media attention. Is there something I am missing? Otherwise, I refer to the above.


Originally posted by Epiphron
Also, I know you mentioned that the Grand Lodge is the supreme governing body and each one is completely independent, but do you know if high ranking members between jurisdictions may be connected in any other way?


Most countries have a Grand Lodge at the National level. In America, when it was formed and Masonic lodges moved here from Europe, there were attempts to create a National Grand Lodge. In fact, George Washington was offered the position of Grand Master of the United States. He declined the position and due to the structure of the country with independent states, the movement towards a National Grand Lodge was defeated.

What we do have in the US is the "Conference of Grand Masters in North America". What this body does is meet and discuss issues which are commonly affecting the Grand Lodges around the country and learn from each other ways to solve them. They take these ideas back to their respective jurisdictions and present them to their members. The members decide what to adopt and what not to adopt. The conference is for building ideas only and has no real power to enforce.

The only power one jurisdiction has over another is whether or not to recognise them as Brothers.


Originally posted by Epiphron
I vaguely recall hearing of a small and secretive society where only master masons were allowed to join. Now, that might not even be true, but I’m just wondering if you know if any societies or groups like that exist?


Yes, there are a bunch.

Freemasons trust other Freemasons because of our bond of Brotherhood. Therefore it is only natural that if you wanted to create a seperate group for say, model train building, you might want people that you can trust. To ensure you only get people that you trust, you make being a Freemason a prerequisite.

Now I know you are looking for something more indepth than "model train building", and yes they do exist. Here is an important distinction that needs to be made though. There are groups which require a member to be a Freemason which the Grand Lodge recognises as "Masonic", and there are groups that require a member be a Freemason which have nothing to do with Freemasonry at all. This is an important distinction.

The groups which are Masonic include:

The Scottish Rite
The Knights Templar
The Order of the Eastern Star
The Shriners

Of the above orders, you have even more off shoot orders.
For simplicity sake, here is a link:

Orders

Of the orders that are not "Masonic" there are many.
The ones I know of and have been invited to prefer to not be known. They are orders of Philosophers. The reason they do not wish to be known is very simple. The work they do is always done anonymously because they are not looking for fame, fortune, or self gratification. They quietly philosophise and do charitable work without ever making themselves known. There members are so discrete they could be your next door neighbor and you would never know. As I respect them for their quiet servitude to mankind, I will not even give the name of these organisations.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 05:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I don’t view Masonry as a threat personally, yet to be completely honest I do think it has a purpose, a grand purpose whose time has not come yet.


It is my belief that Freemasonry could do something quite grand. It is my belief that the tenets, its principles, and it's doctrines could bring peace to this world. It unites men of ALL opinions. It teaches all that is good, kind, and charitable. It reproves all that is vicious, cruel, and oppressive. However, the order is dying.

Men do not have time these days for Freemasonry. Men do not have the desire for honorable pursuits. Men do not even know their neighbors anymore, much less desire to call them Brother. This reflects in the fraternity whose membership is steadily growing older and shrinking in numbers. The young men that do join loose interest because the secrets of life they were expecting, they do not find. They are there, but who finds Brotherly Love and compassion a secret of life any more?

I see the craft withering before my eyes and it saddens me. No other institution in the world welcomes all men of all faiths and opinion under its roof in peace and Brotherly love, and it is a sure sign of the times when such a noble order is facing extinction.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Thanks for being a part of that.


I do what I can. It is my pleasure to do so.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 06:34 PM
link   
reply to post by IAMIAM
 


Good points made concerning Masonry !

IAMIAM, have you read this ongoing thread: "Freemasonry good, but infiltrated?" ?

I havn't seen your name on there yet.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 06:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by xuenchen
IAMIAM, have you read this ongoing thread: "Freemasonry good, but infiltrated?" ?

I havn't seen your name on there yet.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I was not aware of this thread going on. I read through it and decided I won't be participating in it. I am not out to defend the craft. I only do so here where it directly relates to the conspiracy at hand. I try not to get involved in threads which are negative in nature. I prefer to have positive conversations. Thoughts are actions waiting to be born ya know!

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 07:28 PM
link   
reply to post by IAMIAM
 




I have not seen all this media attention. Is there something I am missing? Otherwise, I refer to the above.


By media I was referring to the Dan Brown novels and the movies based off of them, the ‘National Treasure’ movies, and the music industry . From my own observations, freemasonry has come into the public view and the average person is now aware of it due to these movies. As wrong as it is, a lot of people equate freemasons with the illuminati and satanism. When someone hears about freemasonry, they look it up on google or youtube, and they are bombarded with ideas that these people worship the devil and all kinds of ridiculous notions. This is just based my own experiences and observations though, but I do think it speaks for how Freemasons are commonly perceived, at least by the younger generations.


Here is an important distinction that needs to be made though. There are groups which require a member to be a Freemason which the Grand Lodge recognises as "Masonic", and there are groups that require a member be a Freemason which have nothing to do with Freemasonry at all. This is an important distinction.


Good information, thank you. There really are a lot of misconceptions about freemasonry, and a large part of the problem is probably due to the disconnectedness between the average person and the craft. Most people have never spoken to a mason and are learning about it from people that aren’t masons either. That’s what’s I find so great about this website and the internet in general. People from all different kinds of professions and backgrounds can come together and share their expertise, and the result is a vast collection of knowledge available to everyone.

So thanks for coming here and sharing your thoughts and helping to spread love and brotherhood, it adds a lot to this site and I really respect and appreciate what you’re doing.


The work they do is always done anonymously because they are not looking for fame, fortune, or self gratification. They quietly philosophise and do charitable work without ever making themselves known.


This may be wishful or fantastical thinking on my part, but do you think there are groups like this that are aware of the threat that TPTB pose and are actively taking steps behind the scenes to take them out of power?



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 08:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Epiphron
This may be wishful or fantastical thinking on my part, but do you think there are groups like this that are aware of the threat that TPTB pose and are actively taking steps behind the scenes to take them out of power?


Yes, and yes.

In whom do you place your trust?

I place mine in God. Far beyond the created religions of Mankind is the creator of this entire existence. An intelligence so Supreme as to set the very motion of the universe into being from the infinitely large expanses of the galaxies to the infinitely small realm of quarks, there is a constant calculable movement by which man cannot begin to fathom. It is my absolute trust that for a creator to set things in motion to so precise a tuning that every motion is observable and discoverable by the consciousness of Man, that it must have an ultimate plan for his creation which is far beyond the comprehension of Man.

While some may come to rule with cruelty and oppression for a time, the spirit of Man is constantly growing and evolving ever reaching for the great heights of freedom. Freedom, liberty is the natural condition of the soul as revealed by this universal desire. For the desire to penetrate so many hearts it is only logical that this must be the ultimate will of the creator. Thus, it is my purpose to aid in the fruition of this divine will.

How does one do this?

I do my very best to teach men how to be free and live a life of liberty. The only way one can be free is to allow others to be equally free. Therefore, one must be willing to tolerate, nay even love the differences manifested among the many divine consciousnesses walking the earth. To love is to allow to be free that you may be free. I am my own secret society standing against oppressive regimes found everywhere one man seeks dominance over another. My strategy is simply to teach love by demonstrating love unconditionally.

Is it effective?

I have witnessed the transforming effects of unconditional love in my own life. To speak of the victories is to diminish their quality. Their witness is found in the heart. The good news is that this secret society is open for all to enter. I care not if you are a Mason, a Christian, a Hebrew, a Muslim. I care not of your sex life, your political affiliations, your status in life, or the money in your pocket. All I care about is that you desire to be absolutely free, be willing to allow others to be absolutely free, and have a heart capable of unconditional love.

I may not be successful in throwing down the forces of oppression in this life time for "when" is the domain of my father, the creator. But as I believe in the immortality of the soul and the future of my off spring, I am willing to sacrifice my flesh to the accomplishment of the task if not in this life, then the seeds will be planted for the future.

This is all we can do. The rest is up to God and the will of the people.

With Love,

Your Brother

edit on 2-12-2010 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 08:17 PM
link   
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



That was an excellent reply and it sums up my feelings on the craft very eloquently my friend.

The entire word "secrecy" has become quite the red herring.
When i first became a member at ATS I was adamantly against anyone in the craft, but I have met so many very fine Freemasons here at ATS that my stance has changed drastically.

That does not, however, change the reinforced framework of a secret society, a framework that subtly allows the idea of secrecy to be acceptable, most in regards to government.
(see Harry Truman)

I very much believe that the craft most probably had a very noble purpose at one time, and still does to the exoteric, but it has been infiltrated by the black nobility due to the open acceptance of secrecy by these fraternal orders.
it is the clique withing the clique.
Freemasonry is the PERFECT hiding place.

I understand the entire debate about "private". Privacy is a God-Given right.

But words carry meaning that reinforces behavior, and these societies are always called secret and not private.

And that is for a very specific reason.

it reinforces the idea of secrecy in an open society.

And this was seen as a grand opportunity by Rome.

I could not say this enough. The reason that TPTB scumbags use this as a cover is because the vast majority of the craft's membership are collectively some of THE most giving and charitable men of organizations around.

edit on 12/2/2010 by Josephus23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 11:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


What that purpose is I truly can not say, yet I don’t believe those who set up the movement set it up to just be a lingering question mark, but set it up as a means to an end.


I think you would need to go deeper than just "freemasonry" to find the origins of the movement. I believe it lies with the Ancient Mystical Orders. All of these various sects that arise from it are indeed like a spider web.



Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
In our temporal, fluid and ever evolving world, nothing lasts forever, nor is anything meant to last forever, which is why I do believe such institutions are not set up just to exist, but rather to exist for a season and a reason.


A season and a reason. Maybe these masonic groups are Santa's little helpers. They have lots of lists. They know who will and who won't. They know who is naughty and who is nice. These groups are so vast and so encompassing----can you imagine the records they have on their people? Someone knows who the evildoers are. Their name is on a list somewhere along with the deeds.

Perhaps at the top of the hierarchy you will find the Great Secretary of the Celestial Hall of Records!




Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I do though also believe that Rome has many different arms seemingly unconnected yet each fulfilling a specific purpose that serves Rome.


Seems to be modeled after the Chartreuse Order. Every one has an individual secret part in the recipe, but all are kept in the dark about what the other one is doing.



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 08:09 AM
link   
reply to post by IAMIAM
 



I became a Mason when I was a practicing Palero, a priest of the Afro Carribean faith based out of Cuba called Palomayombe. The rituals in Freemasonry are so generic in nature that even I saw similarities with my faith. Mormonism is NOT clandestine Masonry. It is a faith founded by a man who happened to be a Freemason. I know many Mormons and many Masons and a few mormons who happen to be Masons.


Yes...I know...Joseph Smith and his brother were Freemasons. So to was Brigham Young. Nonetheless...there is a different acceptable standard of conduct with a Saint(Mormon) and a non Mormon.
Just like The Talmud permits different conduct between a Hebrew and a non Hebrew. In like manner so too does the Koran. This is rarely taught to the public instructed by a diet of Television/Movie education principles...ie...public schooling. For public schooling teaches the dogma that all gods are the same god..all religions are the same religion. And thus to keep them all on the same plane. The religion they will not allow in public school is Christianity. They will allow Islam ..even unto role playing games to get the religion taught.
After all ..when most of us graduate from Public Schools we wear the robe and Mortarboard/hat...of the lodge. Took me a long time to realize this connection with man made traditions. Thus showing we have been properly educated into that which keeps us proper within the fiefdom.

If all gods are the same god...and all religions are the same religion...than the son of the bond woman shall indeed be heir with the son of the free woman.

This is the important thing to know about Masonry and its dogma....The Humanistic doctrine...to make all together...all one by man made custom and traditions. By making us to fit an Ishmaelite template and not the template of Issac.

I know the craft encourages religion and has no use for atheists. You must believe in god ..any god will do.

Do they teach that all religions are the same religion and all gods are the same god??



Originally posted by orangetom1999
I have myself seen this in operation in the public courts with a lawyer giving the cut throat sign in front of the Judge. The Judge certainly caught it but most of the public in court did not. Those who did ..did not tell. This is a dual system of operation within our courts. The Republican form of government cannot survive such an separate operation within it. It must eventually fall.


So what we have is your sole testimony based on a sign you saw that you do not even know by experience is in fact a sign? Am I understanding this correctly?


Err....am I being dismissed here??? I have a copy of Duncan's Monitor in my private collection.
Are you going to belabor this point with me?? As if I don't know what I am seeing when I see a painting of George Washington with his feet forming a Vee...90 degree square?? I would not also recognize the cut throat sign and know what it implies when I saw the eyes of the Judge quickly and furtively recognize this movement.

Just like when I see over a Hebrew Cemetery in town the circle with a point/dot in the middle of it above the entrance gate.

How about when you see olde photos..like from the Civil War era. The men are standing round the tents ..some of them with their hand inside their Tunics.

In court a lawyer was giving a silent plea for help with his case. Most in the audience would not know this happened unless they knew the signs. This can be done orally or in sign as well as other means.



Originally posted by orangetom1999
Years ago the Irish carried out a mortar attack on of all places ..the Crown..in Olde London. As I recall the attack was launched from a van with a removable or sliding roof. When the news media got there they came to a heavily fenced wrought Iron area of the Crown. At the top of the fence was the Compass and Square. This played briefly across the news media before it was quickly removed....within a few hours.


Your description of the events leaves much to the imagination here. Is there any trace of the media report still around?



No..to my knowledge this type of attack on the Crown was only attempted once. And such an camera angle would be quickly squelched. Removed from circulation. I believe the groups who carried out such an attack were quickly put on notice as this never to my knowledge happened again. Other attacks done in the UK but not at the Crown.
I recall this article of news of noteworthiness because at the time I was just learning of the patterns of world religions and the Craft. This is why it caught my eye so quickly and with remembrance.


Yes, we treat those within differently than those without. So does a bowling team. So does a football team. So does the Boy Scouts, The United Auto Workers, and every other organisation. Memebership creates a fimiliarity and expectation to support the organisation which one is a member of. In the case of Freemasonry, I trust Masons more than I trust non Masons. Why? Because I know they are held to a higher standard of conduct than the general population.


Most of the big unions are in fact lodges. The guys at the home office will be Lodge members. I remember getting a box of D cell batteries with the IAM logo on it ( International Association of Machinists) What was the logo on it .. A compass and Square. I found this very interesting.

en.wikipedia.org...

Many of the Unions have a very devout religious fervour to them in Dedication by their membership..I would say a religious zeal. Very interesting. I doubt that many of the members ever think this far about their union but mostly act by rote.


I am sorry to hear of your loss. If you had loaned it to a Mason, you would have gotten it back!


Thank you for your concern here. I am in the process of getting another copy. I use it for reference ..particularly in reference to the topic of the Talmud. I have also a set of Freemasonic Encyclopedias here..Singleton and Mackey. Very nice woodcuts in them. Until recently I had a copy of the Kaballah which I gave to someone. Now that book I found more strange than Morals and Dogma.
The Kabbalah makes me wonder about Madonna. Is she Talmudic?? I am not one of her fans...never was.


There is no system of religion within Freemasonry. Here you are just plain wrong. Freemasonry requires of it's members to have a belief in a Supreme Being, however it never questions the petitioner beyond that, nor does it seek to define it beyond that in any of its rituals or ceremonies.


I believe you are correct here. This too is my understanding. I was told this years ago by the father of a girl I was dating. He was Scottish Rite. May he rest in Peace. Her father also was the first one to make reference in passing to the idea that there was some kind of rift between certain Masonic Lodges or beliefs and those of Rome/Catholicism. I got the impression that this rift went back very very far in history.

Oh..and concerning the Supreme Being concept. It has been some time since I saw the video where the 2nd George Bush gave his interpretation of his religious beliefs. He stated in the interview that he believed in a Supreme Being. I knew when he said this that he was telling someone initiated that he was in he craft.
A Christian would have stated that he believed in the Lord Jesus the Christ for remissioin of sins. Not a Supreme Being. I found this very interesting about the 2nd George Bush.

They don't question the petitioner because any religion will do..except Atheism. Because all gods are the same god and all religions are the same religion.

I am going to tell you and the readers here something I know from history and speaking with Masons. Not all Masons are evil. To think so is a mistake. I have no beef with most of the Masons. They are just people like the rest of us trying to get by. Many do not know the full scope of that to which they have sworn allegiance.

I do know that there are Masons who have left their mark on History. Some even turned against the system which was supposed to control them and assure certain outcomes in history. One of these Masons was Andrew Jackson. He was supposed to sign the second US Bank Act and instead he did not sign it and the bank was not renewed.

What is of importance to me is the concept that much of our history is missing from Public view and understanding. That someone is working very hard to make the children of the bondwoman heir with the children of the freewoman. This is called Utopia. Humanism,

And I too think there is a conspiracy. Alot of it seems to depend on keeping the public ignorant of a great many tings.


Mick1423,


No wonder why IAMIAM found this thread interesting..., we are all brothers..!


Exactly. this is the pagan principle here.
We are all brothers...brothers have the same father.

I have a different father. If we are all brothers...than the children of the bondwoman shall be heir with the children of the freewoman.

Thanks,
Orangetom
edit on 4-12-2010 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 08:10 AM
link   
Okay..... okay....

I know that this is Rense... and that it mentions Leo Zagami... and that it is put out by Benjamin Fulford, but disinformation, just as information contains action, which infers that its based uon true and valid information.
The problem comes when trying to decipher what is the intention.

What do you think is the purpose and the intention of this story, which intimately though subtly, involves Rome and its many secret societies.?

Don't forget to consider the source as well.....

Whatever its intended purpose.... This story has purpose, but the question, is "to what end?"



He told me the UN was in the process of confiscating Trillions and Trillions of Dollars in assets within the next couple of months and that again no one could do anything about it. I asked if the money was UN money and he said "of course not!"


link to source

This is a very interesting read as it applies to this thread.

Cheers

edit on 12/4/2010 by Josephus23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 08:23 AM
link   

Originally posted by orangetom1999
I have a different father. If we are all brothers...than the children of the bondwoman shall be heir with the children of the freewoman.


Thank you for the explanation of your theories my friend. This last line says it all and why we will not find common ground. There is only one creator of all. Anything less than one is less than the whole and therefore NOT the one. There are different religions because there are different interpretations of the one creator. Do you tell your children the exact same thing at all times? Highly unlikely.

If you cannot look at your Brothers and Sisters around the world and see that they come from the same almighty creator, then you are blind. I do not mean this as a slight, just a statement reflecting your inability to see that which I see. I am equally blind to see the division which you see. Being blind is not a bad thing.

Be well my friend.

Judge not, Love all, be at peace

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 08:35 AM
link   
reply to post by IAMIAM
 


I would like to thank you for your demeanor when we interact, or as a matter of fact, when you interact with anyone on these boards.

You do seem like a really fine chap, but I do believe that you are correct in a very specific part of your last reply.
I will never change my feelings concerning the true intents and purposes that are now behind the very few who are at the top of the pyramid that is essentially known as "the craft". Just as you will neither.
(I honestly include all secret initiate organizations in this category, if they follow the same model as Freemasonry, which all that matter, do)

So I suppose that the best that we can do is agree to disagree, because you are too cool of a guy to let a petty difference of belief be the cause of a gulf between trust and respect.

Cheers mate.



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 09:03 AM
link   

Originally posted by Josephus23
So I suppose that the best that we can do is agree to disagree, because you are too cool of a guy to let a petty difference of belief be the cause of a gulf between trust and respect.


Thank you my friend. I look at things this way. Life is like a disco ball. We all look at it and see a reflection of light from a different mirror. We can argue and destroy each other over which particular mirror is actually shining the light, or we can accept that each has a different point of view which reflects light from a different mirror. When I look at the disco ball, I see one orb shining light in all directions, and it is BEAUTIFUL!

God Bless you all in these trying times. May we all see the whole of the light for it's splendor.

With Love,

Your Brother

P.S. I do hope for the day when Freemasonry is no longer needed. By the grace of God that day will come.
edit on 4-12-2010 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 09:05 AM
link   

Originally posted by orangetom1999
reply to post by IAMIAM
 



There is no system of religion within Freemasonry. Here you are just plain wrong. Freemasonry requires of it's members to have a belief in a Supreme Being, however it never questions the petitioner beyond that, nor does it seek to define it beyond that in any of its rituals or ceremonies

I believe you are correct here. This too is my understanding. I was told this years ago by the father of a girl I was dating. He was Scottish Rite. May he rest in Peace. Her father also was the first one to make reference in passing to the idea that there was some kind of rift between certain Masonic Lodges or beliefs and those of Rome/Catholicism. I got the impression that this rift went back very very far in history.
We are all brothers...brothers have the same father.


I am under the impression that the "architect of the universe", or the same universal god whose belief is a requirement for entering into the craft's nature is taught after the 30th degree, and it is "allegorically" that of Lucifer, or I believe that sometimes the brothers refer to it as "Jahbulon", but it has been known as Prometheus, Helios, Apollo etc... (the light bearer, or the SUN).

This is representative of the intellect and the humanistic belief of placing man as above God through technological advancement and personal "ethical" work, and this is the effort that places them at the top, or their respective placement in the initiatory pyramid. This was essentially taught by gnostic humanism and the Essenes. It is found throughout the dead sea scrolls and pagan ritual. (But this is never directly taught in the degree work. it is meant to be "understood" through hermeneutic interpretation of symbols. It is allegorical, which gives the protection of mystery)
They are probably the same mystical pagan ritual's that were mimicked by the Babylonians, Egyptians, perhaps the basis of the Oracle at Delphi.
This is why evolution is promoted by big money and eugenics has now been re-branded as genetics.

This "Lucifer" thing is supposedly of course all allegorical, but it is is written of several times.
Sometimes blatantly, like Pike in Morals and Dogma.
And sometimes subtly, most times by Manly P. Hall.

BTW.... I don't believe in the whole God/Satan thing.
edit on 12/4/2010 by Josephus23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 09:32 AM
link   

Originally posted by Josephus23
I am under the impression that the "architect of the universe", or the same universal god whose belief is a requirement for entering into the craft's nature is taught after the 30th degree, and it is "allegorically" that of Lucifer, or think that sometimes they call it "Jahbulon", Prometheus, Helios, etc... (the light bearer, or the SUN).

This "Lucifer" thing is supposed all allegorical of course, but it is is written of several times.
Sometimes blatantly, like Pike in Morals and Dogma.
And sometimes subtly, most times by Manly P. Hall.

BTW.... I don't believe in the whole God/Satan thing.

edit on 12/4/2010 by Josephus23 because: (no reason given)


My friend,

The "Higher" degrees of Freemasonry are not "higher" degrees perse. Freemasonry consists of the three degrees ONLY. The higher degrees are a seperate system which elaborate on the three degrees in one manner of interpretation. There are three appendant bodies in Freemasonry which do this in there own way.

The Scottish Rite elaborates on the degrees in a philosophical manner. It's degrees pull from many philosophical sources to elaborate on the three principle tenets of craft Masonry, which are Friendship, morality, and Brotherly Love.

The York Rite elaborates on the three degrees in Freemasonry using the Christian doctrine. To advance to the high degrees within this body, which includes at it's pinnacle the Knights Templar degree, one MUST be a professed Christian and swear to support and defend Christianity.

The Shrine is often looked at as a mere social club for Masons. It's degrees involve jocularity and fun. Personally, I find this to be another method of elaborating on the three degrees for what is Friendship, morality, and Brotherly love without having a good time and honest to goodness fun?

None of these appendant bodies are SUPERIOR to the craft degrees. I have not gone through any of the appendant bodies, yet I still managed to lead a lodge, attend Grand Lodge, and vote on legislation which impacted Freemasonry within my state. The appendant bodies are NOT talked about in Freemasonry any other place than in those respective bodies.

As to those bodies maintaining any control over the three degrees? Those bodies exist at the WILL of three degrees, not the other way around. If the Freemasons decide to cut any of those bodies off as a recognised body, it is wholly in their power to do so. This is proven in Masonic history by some jurisdictions voting to no longer allow certain appendant bodies to operate as a Masonic body in their jurisdictions. Even now one jurisdiction is considering not allowing the Scottish Rite to operate in its jurisdiction.

As for the meaning of Lucifer, well I do not believe it means anything more than "Light-Bringer" in reference to venus, the morning star. This is what I believe it is meant in the Bible, and IF it is mentioned in the Scottish Rite, this would be why. As I have not taken those degrees, nor plan to, I cannot elaborate further. I'd be more concerned if the rumor was that Satan was being worshipped, but using a word which is only mentioned one time in the Bible, and even then, only in reference to one specific King (not Satan), then I do not see what all the hub-bub is about.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 11:28 AM
link   
reply to post by IAMIAM
 



Thank you for the explanation of your theories my friend. This last line says it all and why we will not find common ground. Anything less than one is less than the whole and therefore NOT the one.


I agree with what you said.. we will not find common ground. Not to worry. And for me and my house..only God is one.


I do not mean this as a slight, just a statement reflecting your inability to see that which I see. I am equally blind to see the division which you see. Being blind is not a bad thing.


I agree again and do not take it as a slight. You have spoken well here. I thank you for your consideration.



Judge not, Love all, be at peace


I must judge all things by the Word and Love the Bretheren and My Lord Jesus the Christ for remission of sins.
For if we do not judge righteous judgement we will not know to separate from the things of this world or when to put out the bretheren. For Christianity is anti social..or another word for it is Sectarian.

Most of the world and the Craft prefer non sectarian/social.

For Peace is one of His names..among many of His Names. We are to find Peace with Him.

Thank you for your time and Posts,
Orangetom



posted on Dec, 4 2010 @ 11:42 AM
link   
reply to post by Josephus23
 


Wow Josephus 23,

It appears that you have read some of the same material I have read and know the pattern.

As to the UN..the UN is a Blue Lodge. Once I understood the colour behind the UN logo..it became clear.

Also the pyramid on its side in the meditation room.

The UN seems to be some kind of clearing house operating under the guise of a Governing World Body supposedly doing humanitarian work. Many US Ambassadors have discovered something very wrong there but cannot write kiss and tell books. I believe Andrew Young was one of them. So too is this fellow Bolton.

For some reason..when I see people have high powered meetings I am often drawn to the colour of the curtains in these places. Often they are Blue.

Nonetheless..the UN is not the product advertised.


This is representative of the intellect and the humanistic belief of placing man as above God through technological advancement and personal "ethical" work, and this is the effort that places them at the top, or their respective placement in the initiatory pyramid. This was essentially taught by gnostic humanism and the Essenes. It is found throughout the dead sea scrolls and pagan ritual. (But this is never directly taught in the degree work. it is meant to be "understood" through hermeneutic interpretation of symbols. It is allegorical, which gives the protection of mystery)
They are probably the same mystical pagan ritual's that were mimicked by the Babylonians, Egyptians, perhaps the basis of the Oracle at Delphi.
This is why evolution is promoted by big money and eugenics has now been re-branded as genetics.


This is often referred to as becoming a demi god here on earth. By works..by intellect...by advancing through the degrees in the intellect/wisdom of this world ..after the god of this world. Very good that you know this history and pattern. For so many do not and havent a clue.

Evolution...no thanks I will not go there.

Thanks,
Orangetom

edit on 4-12-2010 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)




top topics



 
607
<< 154  155  156    158  159  160 >>

log in

join