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All Roads Lead to Rome

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posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by squirelnutz
reply to post by Aquarius1
 


I've got a slight case of number dyslexia; maybe someone could help me out with a timeline?

I would imagine about 2000 BC or there abouts.

Hope that helps.




posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by Aquarius1
 


I have to say Aquarius...

This is an interesting find that I am not at all aware of.

I sincerely thank you for this contribution. I am highly interested in the Asian ties to the Roman Empire.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by squirelnutz
They werent religion Christians; they came from a place called Chris or something so the people of Rome just called them Christians and they were the scape goats for everything because of their carefree lifestyles.. That's why I call them Hippies, they were in tune with mother nature, man, and like just wanted to live, man..

I'm looking for references, but i read this in a book and can't remember the damned name t save my life..

And google is not helping

edit on 1-12-2010 by squirelnutz because: (no reason given)


There is some info here::

freetruth.50webs.org...

read all four pages,

they contain interesting theories about Pagan cults and Zoroastrian.

Christianity came from many old stories.

www.theskepticalreview.com...


the year designation "B.C." etc was dreamed up by the Vatican I think.


Many different calendars have been used since man began tracking time. Most start with some epoch event or person. The use of BC and AD for numbering calendar years was invented by Dionysius Exiguus in 525 AD. His purpose was to determine the correct date for Easter under the direction of Pope St. John I.
What year was it in the year 525 A.D. if they hadn't thought of it YET !!! ???

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

agards-bible-timeline.com...

Common sense would tell us that any "historical" documentations that refer to any year in A.D. and B.C. would have been "written" much later ??








edit on 1-12-2010 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Here’s a good article from a while back about the Vatican and their support of genetically modified crops.


A meeting on Genetic Modification (GM) being held at the Vatican later this week[1] has been condemned as "a total farce" by SpinWatch, an independent non-profit making organisation which monitors the role of PR, propaganda and lobbying.[2]

Bishop Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo, the Academy's chancellor, told the Catholic News Service that the aim was to gather "an objective group of experts" in a search for "scientific clarity" on the subject.[4]

But the 40 or so participants listed on the academy's website [5] are all GM supporters, with many well known for their extreme pro-GM views or having vested interests in GMO adoption.

"This event appears to have been hijacked by the GM lobby. Objectivity is the last thing anyone should expect from these 'experts'," said Prof. David Miller.


SpinWatch condemns Vatican GM event as a "charade by vested interests"



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by Josephus23
 


Thank you Joseph, it is always interesting when you can tie something to Rome no matter the time frame, if you can find anything else I would be interested in reading it.

Peace



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by squirelnutz
reply to post by Josephus23
 


I'm having a hard time finding anything before 0 AD concerning early Rome and Christians (people, not religion)

It could explain why were on the Christian Calendar..

No one thinks about life before 2,000 years ago..




"pre-Roman" Northern Italy (today) was governed by the Etruscans.

users.cwnet.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

ancienthistory.about.com...

Etruscan trade was heavily influenced by the Phoenicians, who had a colony at Carthage.....
who later went to war with Rome.

google searches for "Phoenicia" and "Etrusca" will yield much info about pre-Roman history.


edit on 1-12-2010 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by squirelnutz
reply to post by Josephus23
 


Yeah, I'm getting confused.. I got a problem with numbers and the whole Ad/BC/CE confusion is a little too much for me..

I bet a lot of stuff happened in that time period, and i bet we're missing some years too



here's some history of calendars::


en.wikipedia.org...

www.crystalinks.com...

www.sino-platonic.org...

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 08:04 PM
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More Federal Reserve ties to non-U.S. banks and Central Banks !!!::

news.yahoo.com...

www.cnbc.com...


www.ft.com...


www.ft.com...


www.bloomberg.com...




Foreign banks were among the biggest beneficiaries of the $3,300bn in emergency credit provided by the Federal Reserve during the crisis, according to new data on the extraordinary efforts of the US authorities to save the global financial system.

Among the largest recipients were foreign central banks, such as the European Central Bank, Bank of England and the Bank of Japan. They borrowed huge amounts of dollars from the Fed to assist their own banks.



[color=Cyan]Roman Banking::

en.wikipedia.org...

www.cato.org...



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 08:02 AM
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Josephus 23,


It seems as though Jesus wanted to "bring his fight", so to speak, to the Pharicees and Saducees.


Indeed sir..indeed!! I am gratified to see that someone else comprehends this. When you comprehend this in its fullness...you can see this trend line continuing unto this very day with little changed. These groups of Ishmaelites have only increased in number and many of them are not Hebrews though they definitely have the Ishmaelite (World) doctrine upon their lips.


This leads me to question why the Bible portrays the story of Jesus as being crucified by Rome?
This doesn't seem to add up if his argument was essentially with the Jews of the time?

Did the Jewish priesthood hold sway over Pontius Pilate?

If so then this lends credence to Bill Cooper's statement that the priesthood has forever been the true power in the world.


Excellent question you have posed here. For most of their domain over Palestine the Romans exercised the power of life and death in judicial matters. However for a brief time this right or power was given or exercised to the Hebrews. The time when Jesus entered Jerusalem was one of these times. This is clear when it is recorded that Pontius Pilate asked of the Jews and their leadership..what they wanted to do about Jesus though he could find no fault with him upon questioning. It was the Jews who wanted to crucify Him..not Pontius Pilate. I think this is deliberately clouded in history. One has to read the Word carefully to comprehend this. The Romans found no fault with Him.

As to the priesthood being the true power in the world. I agree ...except that this priesthood is hidden from many out here. Also by what I have read...the priesthood or priesthoods seem to be at war with each other. What they do not do is let outsiders know that they are at war with each other. The outsiders or Profane are never to know the pattern. It appears to be at times that the Vatican and their Catholic system is at war with others who are also of the Priesthood..but not the Roman Priesthood. I think Bill Coopers statement was close to the mark.

The Inner workings of the Communist Party appear to be a lodge. It is just a Communist Lodge.
Remember the Sandinistas of Nicaragua??? Why were the Jesuits and their priesthood working with the Communists in Nicaragua...many of them in high offices under the Communists? Some of them even taking wives and having children. Why did the Pope make a special trip to Nicaragua....to bring the Jesuits back into line?? When your are aware of these strange goings on...you begin to think up questions when you have the patterns down.
During this time of Ronald Reagan ...what was Washington DC doing with a special Ambassador to the Vatican. This office exists unto this day. Sort of a Vatican/Washington DC hot line.

I believe this priesthood exists and the Maritime Merchants are an important if not key players in this and have divided the world up into camps..behind their hidden priesthoods and religion of Merchant Law. These are fiefdoms. Territories ceded by unknown laws and the governments obey them and cater to their needs when their territories get set up or their territories are in jeopardy.

I think in WW2 the Japanese with their Emperor/Sun God religion decided to stop being a player with America and England and strike out on their own. With their own merchants seeking the minerals and needs of a newly industrialized nation..the resources. Only the resources were already claimed by others..most notably England and her boot lackey ...America.

The Japanese Flag had at that time the Sun Disk with the rays emanating from it. What Douglas MacArthur did was to order the removal of the Suns rays and only keep the disk. Interesting what you learn when you get out of public school thinking and information's. Also the MacArthur Memorial where he is buried is right across from me in Norfolk, Virginia. When you see Olde Doug's tomb you would swear this was Napoleon Bonaparte not Douglas MacArthur.

Ever watch a parade of the Irish Orangemen marching through or beside the Catholic Areas. They are wearing the top hats, Tuxedos, and gloves along with their big medallions. This is the formal uniform of a lodge.
What you have in the Ireland/English conflict is a war which has been going on since the 1600s against the English government and religious system. It is the Catholic lodges against the Protestant lodges. Yes..Sinn Fein is a lodge as were other Catholic lodges before them. But your public education system wont teach you this will they. Nor the News Media looking out for you.

By the way...what were the Japanese Delegation wearing to the surrender ceremony on the Battleship Missouri at the end of WW2. Not the Japanese Military Personnel..but the civilians??? A tuxedo, top hat, and gloves.
Are you people catching on yet. I am sure you can find this on the web if not on the Hitler Channel (History Channel) You are witnessing one lodge surrendering to another lodge.

When you see enough of this pattern repeated over and over and over...you tend to ask what religion is taking place without most of the public catching on? Yet millions go to their deaths over such as this and the news media keeps singing the tune..the company line..the religious line.

Something told me that when we went into Yugoslavia ..that we would be there a long time..if the pattern held as scheduled. It is the same in Iran and Afghanistan. The problem is not how to end these wars..it is how to keep them going long enough for certain conditions to be maintained or met.

After awhile you become aware that someone or some group has to be very devoutly in control or behind the reigns to keep this system going.

Does not often the media seem to be in the middle of this thing playing good cop/ bad cop?? Gets tiring once you see it repeated often enough.

Just examples of this priesthood at work. I don't think it is all a Roman or Catholic priesthood..I think Rome has competition in this field.


This is an interesting quote for several reasons.
The priesthood killed several of the Apostles?
If you could explain this in depth a bit more then I would be very grateful.


I believe it became clear that the Christian doctrine and it's Anti Social system was going to be a threat to the current day royal feudal systems then in power. For their power and control came from the olde gods and royal systems. Absolute power. Some of these pagan priesthoods..when they persecuted the Christians unto death..the Christian numbers grew...not diminished. This is how they began to understand the threat to their system. I believe Rome understood sufficiently to adopt the facade of this Christian system while underneath practicing the bondage system of Ishmael.


P(S)aul has always been an enigma in my opinion. Modern day Christianity, let me re-phrase, the practices of the modern Christian church seem to be modeled after the letters of Paul, but the practices of the modern Christian church do not reflect the teachings of Jesus as they are portrayed in the Gospels.
The actual ritual that is invoked in modern Christian church is very much Pagan in origin.


Very astute of you to notice this pattern. Many Christians themselves don't seem to have a clue. Nor do they know much history ..even Christian history ..astonishing but true.
Remember when I stated that there is no such instruction to celebrate a birthday..in both the Olde Testament as well as the New Testament.

This includes Christmas..for the Significance of Jesus Christ is his death burial and resurrection. Most of today's Christian Churches get this one backwards big time...and if they know..they dont tell anyone the truth about it.

If you want to see an explaination about this ...read from Alexander Hislop's book..."The Two Babylons"

In it is an historical explaination of the origins of most of todays holydays.


What I am saying in elaboration to your last question on page 155 is that there has been some kind of concealed combination operating throughout history. Through certain wars and in peacetime. Why was Napoleon Bonaparte put in isolation rather than executed..both times on Islands. Same for Jefferson Davis?? How about Santa Anna ..when captured by Sam Houston's army? These things oddly enough happen in history. And yet other leaders are executed.

These combinations I notice seem to crop up in history..with no explanation or misleading directions or information's. The hard questions covered up or never asked.
I think these conflicts take place in war and piece for dominion of the world.
I think the commercial maritime system of which Proto is speaking is at the core of history and has been since way back before the Romans. I think this is the true history of the world. Banking, Insurance, and Industry..including the control of resources..even people as a resource. Markets as a resource. The trading routes to and fro for goods and services..minerals/energy for industry.

Notice how the Carthaginians...descendants of the Phoenicians...kept the Romans out of the Areas outside of Gibraltar..on the Atlantic side..though they had lost several wars to Rome?? How did they do this?
Their sailors and merchants pulled into ports and spread sea monster stories about falling off the edge of the world or being attacked by huge monsters..et al. They were protecting vital trade routes up and down the Atlantic..particularly Africa. Worked pretty well too..up into the late 1400s. Worked pretty well on the Romans.
LOL LOL.

As it states somewhere in the 33rd degree of Morals and Dogma....in the end it is the absolute mastery of everything which is the goal.

The problem with educated men is that historically the best form of government they can devise and maintain is tyranny. Always..no exceptions. And tyranny is always a variation of the olde feudal royalties or royal systems and always produced a dead inert economic system while declaring the greatness of men and humanity.
What you conclude when studying this is that the only humans are those in this royal system..not the outsiders or profane.

Hope this helps Josephus.23.

Oh..by the way. As a side note to your name..one of the most interesting narratives I have ever read is by Flavius Josephus concerning the fall of Jerusalem and what happened there in the three and a half years it was besieged.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by squirelnutz
reply to post by Josephus23
 


I'm having a hard time finding anything before 0 AD concerning early Rome and Christians (people, not religion)

It could explain why were on the Christian Calendar..

No one thinks about life before 2,000 years ago..


I think about it often when reading history,. What I have concluded about Olde Testament times is that it was not often safe even in being a king. Often one was concerned with how to keep ones head on ones shoulders.

I dont believe there was ever a 0 year. It just went from the BC to AD system as a record of history . Those people did not know they had gone from BC to AD. Nor did most of the world know this. It is just a record keeping system for historians. Most of history and written records of those times are in what is called
" In the year of the King....so and so"
This means that if you did not know that the 5 th year of king so and so..was the 36th year of king so and so in this other system...historically today you are out of luck. A continuum of history dating is difficult in this type of dating system. There are often patches missing because dates cannot be confirmed. Many including in science will try to pull your leg on such things..but they are just guessing or filling in the gaps.

Someone does not like to admit this but it is true about the reigns of the kings. They like you to think that modern academia/science has it all sewn up. As if every time they found some new artifact that there was a date plate with it. You know..like they went to the moon and driving around..they found date plates.

Hope this helps,
Orangetom



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 08:28 AM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 





By the way...what were the Japanese Delegation wearing to the surrender ceremony on the Battleship Missouri at the end of WW2. Not the Japanese Military Personnel..but the civilians??? A tuxedo, top hat, and gloves.
Are you people catching on yet. I am sure you can find this on the web if not on the Hitler Channel (History Channel) You are witnessing one lodge surrendering to another lodge.


As always orangetom a truly brilliant and highly intriquing observation. It's amazing what the observant person who is as inquisitive as they are intelligent can pick up on.

Can we presume that these lodges are all 'Masonic' in origin, or is there more to it than that?

Once again thanks for joining in on the thread, I know it takes a good bit of time, thought and effort to contribute such high quality and well thought out answers, I am fairly certain the members following along with the thread, will have some great questions to put to you.

Thank you.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



Can we presume that these lodges are all 'Masonic' in origin, or is there more to it than that?


Most of them seem to be in the background Masonic in origin. Or at least of the religion promoted by Masonry.

The English Crown or Merchant society out of the Olde London seems to be Masonic in origins complete with their Lord Mayor.and ceremonies/ritual.

The Catholics seem to have their lodges in Knights of Columbus, also Knights of Malta, and even Opus Dei. Yet there is a Papal Bull outstanding about Catholics not being in Lodges.

In Morals and Dogma you see the Talmud mentioned over and over as a reference. Masonry is Talmudic. A conduct for the insiders or initiated and another conduct for the outsiders or Profane. Textbook Talmudic Conduct.

I am not sure how deep the lodges may be controlled. I just know that this religion behind them has a peculiar nature. I do not think the average member is deeply involved per se..in the conspiracy ...except when called upon they must obey the orders of their superiors and leaders in certain public affairs and never to reveal these doings..even to their wives.
This is also a pattern you will find repeated in the catholic church. To obey.
I do think the struggle between the Catholic Church and non catholic lodges still goes on. It may be out of the main limelight but it is still there. It is also a concept which will never be taught in public schools ..even that it ever existed in the haste to teach all religions are the same religion and all gods are the same god.

Just things of which one becomes aware. Also in contrast to this...when one becomes aware of the pattern in operation here...one becomes dubious about anything or anyone speaking of a one world concept. Because one begins to realize that world equality can only happen if all nations/peoples are at the poverty level. Except the inside group of the initiates.


Thanks,
Orangetom




edit on 2-12-2010 by orangetom1999 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
Most of them seem to be in the background Masonic in origin. Or at least of the religion promoted by Masonry.


Greetings my friend,

You have struck my curiosity with this line. First, what makes these "lodges" seem to be "Masonic" in origin? In other words, on what grounds do you base this hypothesis? Secondly, what religion is promoted by Masonry?


Originally posted by orangetom1999The English Crown or Merchant society out of the Olde London seems to be Masonic in origins complete with their Lord Mayor.and ceremonies/ritual.


Again, what makes the English Crown or Merchant Society "seem" to be Masonic in origin to you? What evidence do you have or knowledge of Masonic structure, ceremony, ritual, or tradition do you base this assumption on?


Originally posted by orangetom1999The Catholics seem to have their lodges in Knights of Columbus, also Knights of Malta, and even Opus Dei. Yet there is a Papal Bull outstanding about Catholics not being in Lodges.


Again with the seeming familiarity between the two distinctly separate organisations. On what are you basing the seeming connections other than the word "seem" itself?


Originally posted by orangetom1999
In Morals and Dogma you see the Talmud mentioned over and over as a reference. Masonry is Talmudic. A conduct for the insiders or initiated and another conduct for the outsiders or Profane. Textbook Talmudic Conduct.


Morals and Dogma is one man's interpretation of Masonic ritual based on his study of not only the Talmud but many esoteric and exoteric traditions around the world. Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma was more a compilation and comparative analysis of his studies which he saw representative in the three degrees of Freemasonry and written into the degrees of the Scottish Rite Southern Jurisdiction by himself. The Scottish Rite Northern Jurisdiction has a distinctly different ritual, as does the Scottish Rite in other parts of the world.



Originally posted by orangetom1999
I just know that this religion behind them has a peculiar nature.


Again, what is this religion?


Originally posted by orangetom1999
except when called upon they must obey the orders of their superiors and leaders in certain public affairs and never to reveal these doings..even to their wives.


Was this your experience when you were initiated into the craft? If you were never initiated, how do you know?

I look forward to your replies my friend.

With Love,

Your Brother


edit on 2-12-2010 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-12-2010 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


Orangetom....

I would give 50 stars and an equal amount of applause if possible.

Your knowledge of the Abrahamic faiths is truly impressive.

I asked the question concerning maritime law for a very specific reason.
It is the ancient, Roman perfected, method of controlling people by literally treating them as a human resource and not a live person.

I recently went to court for a traffic ticket and stood in front of a judge, where I was forced to lay my eyes upon the gold fringed flag of my jurisdiction, according to private international law, which is interestingly enough the Roman method that was perfected and used for control of trade of such a diverse empire.

I really wish that more people understood the difference between law, code, and statute.

Here is a really great link to the Admiralty and Maritime Law Guide..

I am very grateful that you shared that with me Orangetom. Thank you.

Cheers mate.



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 02:58 PM
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Thanks for the links guys... I'll be back in a few days after doing research



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 03:15 PM
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Greetings friends,

Since the subject of Freemasonry continues to pop up, I thought I'd share a little about Freemasonry from my Jurisdiction. Freemasonry is established under Grand Lodges. These are the supreme governing body for any group of Freemasons. Each Grand Lodge is entirely independent and self governing. Its rules and regulations are decided upon by its members by representative vote. Each lodge in a jurisdiction sends a delegation to the annual Grand Lodge meeting to vote on changes to their constitution. I have participated in this as Junior Warden, Senior Warden, and Master of my lodge.

So, for your enlightenment, here is the "Constitutions and Regulations" of Freemasons in North Carolina.

The Code

As you can see, it is publicly available and easily accessible to anyone. Within this Constitution you will find all things that govern Masons in the State of North Carolina. You may find the chapter on "Unmasonic Conduct" of particular interest.

Enjoy!

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 



You have struck my curiosity with this line. First, what makes these "lodges" seem to be "Masonic" in origin? In other words, on what grounds do you base this hypothesis? Secondly, what religion is promoted by Masonry?


By their Talmudic tendency's.or patterns of operation. One standard for insiders or initiates and another for outsiders. Very much like the Hebrews or Jews of today. Once again ..not every Hebrew or Mason operates under this template. But the mechanism is there for them if necessary. Another example of this is dual system is in Mormonism. A standard for the Saints and another for non Saints. Mormonism is clandestine Masonry.
Once again..the mechanism is there in place and not known by the bulk of peoples not well versed in this history.
I have myself seen this in operation in the public courts with a lawyer giving the cut throat sign in front of the Judge. The Judge certainly caught it but most of the public in court did not. Those who did ..did not tell. This is a dual system of operation within our courts. The Republican form of government cannot survive such an separate operation within it. It must eventually fall.


Again, what makes the English Crown or Merchant Society "seem" to be Masonic in origin to you? What evidence do you have or knowledge of Masonic structure, ceremony, ritual, or tradition do you base this assumption on?


Years ago the Irish carried out a mortar attack on of all places ..the Crown..in OLde London. As I recall the attack was launched from a van with a removable or sliding roof. When the news media got there they came to a heavily fenced wrought Iron area of the Crown. At the top of the fence was the Compass and Square. This played briefly across the news media before it was quickly removed....within a few hours.


Originally posted by orangetom1999The Catholics seem to have their lodges in Knights of Columbus, also Knights of Malta, and even Opus Dei. Yet there is a Papal Bull outstanding about Catholics not being in Lodges.

Again with the seeming familiarity between the two distinctly separate organisations. On what are you basing the seeming connections other than the word "seem" itself?


In Catholicism like Mormonism and even Masonry there is an ability to treat those outside the fold differently from those inside the fold..the initiates. Dual standards. This is a concept hardly taught in public schools in the urge to get most to think we are all alike...all the same. Secular..yet ignorant of this pattern and its existence.


Morals and Dogma is one man's interpretation of Masonic ritual based on his study of not only the Talmud but many esoteric and exoteric traditions around the world. Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma was more a compilation and comparative analysis of his studies which he saw representative in the three degrees of Freemasonry and written into the degrees of the Scottish Rite Southern Jurisdiction by himself. The Scottish Rite Northern Jurisdiction has a distinctly different ritual, as does the Scottish Rite in other parts of the world.


Correct on this. As I recall Albert Pike was a prolific writer. At one time I had a copy of his Rig Veda on very nice expensive paper and binding. Unfortunately I loaned it to someone and never got it back as has been the case with several copies of Morals and Dogma.


Originally posted by orangetom1999
I just know that this religion behind them has a peculiar nature.


Again, what is this religion?


The religion of a dual system in operation. A dual system not known by the bulk of peoples affected by it.


Was this your experience when you were initiated into the craft? If you were never initiated, how do you know?

I look forward to your replies my friend.


I do not travel to the east ..up seven steps..but I am familiar with some of the ritual and signs grips etc.

I used to think that this was something of importance..knowing this stuff..but it is not.

What is important is recognizing the two religions in operation..One after Ishmael and the other after Issac.... the pattern and towards what goal it attempts to move. The Ishmaelite religion comes in many types, flavors, tones, variations. The Issac religion comes in only one.

Hope this helps to clarify.

Thank you for your time and post.
Orangetom



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
By their Talmudic tendency's.or patterns of operation. One standard for insiders or initiates and another for outsiders. Very much like the Hebrews or Jews of today. Once again ..not every Hebrew or Mason operates under this template. But the mechanism is there for them if necessary. Another example of this is dual system is in Mormonism. A standard for the Saints and another for non Saints. Mormonism is clandestine Masonry.
Once again..the mechanism is there in place and not known by the bulk of peoples not well versed in this history.


I became a Mason when I was a practicing Palero, a priest of the Afro Carribean faith based out of Cuba called Palomayombe. The rituals in Freemasonry are so generic in nature that even I saw similarities with my faith. Mormonism is NOT clandestine Masonry. It is a faith founded by a man who happened to be a Freemason. I know many Mormons and many Masons and a few mormons who happen to be Masons.



Originally posted by orangetom1999
I have myself seen this in operation in the public courts with a lawyer giving the cut throat sign in front of the Judge. The Judge certainly caught it but most of the public in court did not. Those who did ..did not tell. This is a dual system of operation within our courts. The Republican form of government cannot survive such an separate operation within it. It must eventually fall.


So what we have is your sole testimony based on a sign you saw that you do not even know by experience is in fact a sign? Am I understanding this correctly?


Originally posted by orangetom1999
Years ago the Irish carried out a mortar attack on of all places ..the Crown..in OLde London. As I recall the attack was launched from a van with a removable or sliding roof. When the news media got there they came to a heavily fenced wrought Iron area of the Crown. At the top of the fence was the Compass and Square. This played briefly across the news media before it was quickly removed....within a few hours.


Your description of the events leaves much to the imagination here. Is there any trace of the media report still around?


Originally posted by orangetom1999
In Catholicism like Mormonism and even Masonry there is an ability to treat those outside the fold differently from those inside the fold..the initiates. Dual standards. This is a concept hardly taught in public schools in the urge to get most to think we are all alike...all the same. Secular..yet ignorant of this pattern and its existence.


Yes, we treat those within differently than those without. So does a bowling team. So does a football team. So does the Boy Scouts, The United Auto Workers, and every other organisation. Memebership creates a fimiliarity and expectation to support the organisation which one is a member of. In the case of Freemasonry, I trust Masons more than I trust non Masons. Why? Because I know they are held to a higher standard of conduct than the general population.


Originally posted by orangetom1999
Correct on this. As I recall Albert Pike was a prolific writer. At one time I had a copy of his Rig Veda on very nice expensive paper and binding. Unfortunately I loaned it to someone and never got it back as has been the case with several copies of Morals and Dogma.


I am sorry to hear of your loss. If you had loaned it to a Mason, you would have gotten it back!


But seriously, I am sorry for your loss. I do not agree with all of Pike's work, but I do appreciate the vast wealth of knowledge contained there. Coincidently, Pike came under fire for interpretations of Masonic ritual by several Masonic scholars during his day. Most notably of these was Bro. Albert G. Mackey.


Originally posted by orangetom1999
The religion of a dual system in operation. A dual system not known by the bulk of peoples affected by it.


There is no system of religion within Freemasonry. Here you are just plain wrong. Freemasonry requires of it's members to have a belief in a Supreme Being, however it never questions the petitioner beyond that, nor does it seek to define it beyond that in any of its rituals or ceremonies. Religion is not even discussed in lodge, it is forbidden to do so. This is because the doors are open to men of all faiths. To prevent discord, the dogma of faith is not discussed that all may meet on the level.


Originally posted by orangetom1999
I do not travel to the east ..up seven steps..but I am familiar with some of the ritual and signs grips etc.

I used to think that this was something of importance..knowing this stuff..but it is not.

What is important is recognizing the two religions in operation..One after Ishmael and the other after Issac.... the pattern and towards what goal it attempts to move. The Ishmaelite religion comes in many types, flavors, tones, variations. The Issac religion comes in only one.


Again, see my above on religion.


Originally posted by orangetom1999
Hope this helps to clarify.

Thank you for your time and post.
Orangetom


It does help clarify my friend, but I think your information is in error. I won't dispute it any more than I have already. What I will do is offer myself as a point of reference on the craft. All that I know and am not obligated to hold secret I will share with you if you like. To be clear, I am only not permitted to reveal our ritual work. The reason for this is it spoils the experience for those who may one day take the degrees.

Besides the ritual work, there is a wealth of information that I can share. There are lectures which explain the symbols of the craft, there are the laws (like the Constitution I already provided above), and most important, there are experiences as a Mason. If you are interested with a sincere desire to learn, I will gladly share all of this. If however, you have already made up your mind that you know what the craft is all about, let me know and I will not waste my time.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. For the record, I do believe there is a conspiracy to dominate the world. I do see it as being based out of Rome. I do believe the people of this world have become ensnared in a tyrannical empire. What I do not believe is jumping to conclusions and throwing the blame on institutions which exist outside it is any way to bring it down. The truth is, the top will never be uncovered. It exists by the will of the people. The only way to bring it down is by raising the will of the people to do so.

With Love,

Your Brother















edit on 2-12-2010 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-12-2010 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 04:14 PM
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No wonder why IAMIAM found this thread interesting..., we are all brothers..!

After all... The Great Architect of the Universe is in reality, not a God or a universal name for God, like most are misled to believe but an organisation...! the secret society of the Ancient Roman Empire...and the Greatest Architect of all time is.... Julius Caesar..!

All Roads Lead to Rome...!

edit on 2-12-2010 by mick1423 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 


IAMIAM-

I want to post this to you because you honestly seem like a really good chap.

Honestly...

I know that I have dogged on you before, and for that i am sorry, you really seem like a nice guy.
So, I am going to give you the honest skinny on why so many of us are wary and accusatory of Freemasonry.

First and foremost, the framework for a secret society allows for bifurcation, or a dual purpose.
An inner circle that is inside the inner circle. A secret society inside of the secret society.

I am sure you get the point.

In the book Goel, Escher, Bach the concept of a strange loop is discussed and that is EXACTLY what has happened with Freemasonry.
We supposedly live in a free and open society, but more importantly, we are supposed to have a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

But that has been usurped. And this is all the product of the Military/Industrial/Prison/Intelligence/Security complex.
All of which is a product of the CIA, which was a creation of the National Security Act, which was signed by Harry Truman.
Who happened to be a ummm.... 32nd, I believe, Scottish Rite Freemason.

This strange loop in the fabric of society and now government due to good ole Truman allows for the most evil of individuals to engage in the their treasonous and inhumane deeds while under the cover of "intellectual decompression".
It is like a contradictory command, like buy/sell.

Open freedom society, but secrecy.
And you have secrets, whether you admit it or not.

Several regimes have banned Freemasonry.
Like Stalin, who himself was a 33rd degree Freemason.


It is my personal opinion that whatever secret teachings was imparted onto the Knights Templar were passed down to a few and the original fraternal houses were infiltrated, so to speak, by those who feel above the law.

The perfect cover is to associate and have the idea of SECRECY associated with someone as upstanding as yourself.

This is all I have for now.

Cheers mate




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