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All Roads Lead to Rome

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posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I say the same thing concerning 911 and the idea of "genuine" fakes.

Yes the OS is bogus and full of holes, but why did individuals with basically, unlimited, resources
And access to the most Machiavellian and dubious genius like sociopaths....

Make such purposeful shoddy mistakes?

Because they were purposefully shoddy mistakes.

The debate over the existence and the works of the puppet-masters is "eyes wide shut" common knowledge, in my opinion.

TPTB essentially have purposefully shown the wold their power and also that they exist, although in the shadows.

They seem to be insinuating that they are about to pull the rug out from underneath the entire world.
And bring us to our knees.
Whether it is a truth or it is a mind game to keep the masses in check is regardless.
They have let their presence be known and they are slowly showing exactly how much power they yield.

People who act like they are ambivalent or skeptical to the very few controlling the MANY know this universal truth.
The fear is apparent in the behaviors of the masses.
And it has become like a fire being continually stoked by the MSM.

But the real question is exactly as you say.

Who are they...

And what is their TRUE agenda.
edit on 11/27/2010 by Josephus23 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by Josephus23
 


A great post my friend. I honestly feel like we are getting closer to who all the time. Though we don't know the name of the ultimate puppet master yet on the top, we definitely are getting closer to the people who would have some kind of possible line of communication and knowledge of them.

In detective work, once you identify some prime suspects, if they are really adept at skilled at their crimes, ultimately it requires confronting and questioning the suspects and trying to get a confession out of them.

From a visible standpoint I think we have pretty much identified that the Pope, the Queen of England and the Rothschild Family are in the loop.

It is highly likely the King of Spain and the Queen of the Netherlands are equally well informed.

So in the very near future I plan on writing them all, and laying out my suspicions and accusations against them, and to see if it all possible they can be encouraged to share with us the information we need in order to put the last pieces of the puzzle together.

I will present them a proper memorial, a legal grievance and pleading, and appeal to them with all due respect.

While they might not respond or respond kindly, they may, who knows after all these centuries they might want a way out that lets them off the hook.

I called and emailed Cass Sunstein, Obama’s Information Czar that wants to infiltrate the Internet with Government Agents to counter conspiracy theorists and invited him to the thread I did on him and that initiative.

I think it’s time I give the Queen, the Rothschild Family and the Pope the same courtesy.

After all it’s not nice to talk behind people’s backs!



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 09:49 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


That is seriously classic.

Inviting him to the thread.

Maybe you could get an audience with the Pope and slip him a card with this thread's URL on it.

HAHAHAHA

Cheers



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by serbsta
reply to post by xuenchen
 


Thanks to Epiphron we can confirm that the chart isn't genuine, it is fake.


Yes but is it a genuine fake?



I don't know. If you can show evidence either way I'd be happy to read it. I only found the chart and posted it here asking if anyone could help find the source that it came from. Epiphron found the source and it isn't there. Based on what we know as of this stage, it is fake. If you have evidence to the contrary, present it, assumptions won't get us anywhere.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 01:06 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


PT,

Very interesting thread. I have only recently stumbled upon it while surfing ATS in the last couple of days. it has taken me that long just to get through about 8 pages of reading on it.

I want to make some comments on the material.

I too have suspected for some time now that someone or something has been manipulating events and histories including the wars and prosperity of nations for many many centuries. I believe that technology has only increased the speed at which these events have taken place...including the wars, prosperity, rise and fall of nations.
I believe we are about to see another round of this taking place.

Some comments from page 1 of this thread.

It is my belief and understanding that Rome built it's method and rationale on the knowledge and beliefs of other preceding nations/empires. Most notably the Greeks and also the Egyptians. The Greeks themselves learned much from the Egyptians. Both in religion and science/mathematics.

It is also my belief that Rome perceived Christianity to be it's greatest threat. So too did the Hebrew leadership.
Rome's solution was to make the state into a church but privily carry on in the same olde royal feudal methods by camouflage. Appearing to be Christian and carrying on Christian lip service but behind the scenes and privily being a psuedo Christianised version of Talmudic Hebrews. They are in fact....Hellenic Pharisees verses Judaic Pharisees...but Pharisees nonetheless. Which Talmud do you want...Hellenic Talmud or Judaic Talmud..they are both Talmudic and this is obvious by history.
There are more groups out here than Jews who are in fact Talmudic in nature and operation.

I have also learned by reading my Bible that there is no such instruction for a Church to spread the Word by the Sword. Thus indicating that there is no requirement for a Crusade nor an Inquisition. Thus it is clear as to the nature of what Rome and the Vatican are not what they advertise. They are not alone in this ..as there are others who also practice the same while claiming to be something else. Rome just happens to be one of the more visible groups. Spreading the word by the sword is also indicative to me of what Islam is..in spite of that which it advertises. They are not far removed from Rome.

As to the term you used "Shadow Government" on page 2..it is appropriate. I have long wondered why we fight war after war and not come home with the spoils of war but only bills due and lots of bodies and our broken wounded. I have concluded that America is a vassal state or boot lackey for someone else or someone else's profits and we fight for their status quo when needed or ordered to do so.

The proof of this finally came to me before the first Gulf War when Margret Thatcher came to America at the Aspen Institute ( a British Think Tank) and met with the elder Bush. The elder Bush went in a dove and came out a hawk ready to do battle. Margret gave olde George his marching orders and he complied. We protected someones interests with our material plenty and blood. We protected some one's business and financial arrangements going back to the early part of the 20th century or pre WW2. I had been studying along these lines and history turned out to prove this concept correct. Then we did it again to stabilize someone else's markets and plans in Iraq and Afghanistan. This continues today at American expense in dollars and blood.
This is part of our "Special " relationship with the United Kingdom.

From page 2 concerning Flapjacks post and the obelisks, Washington Monument, St Peters square Obelisk.
Among those who know and have studied...there is no such instruction for a Christian to build big buildings, edifices, monuments to glory etc etc. None.
In the traditions of men and in Pagan histories this is very common. Also too is Sun worship, moon worship and variations of both.
Also among those who know..in paganism...the Obelisk is the male shaft or member..membrum virle of the Occult sun god Baal. Obelisk. Baal's Lisk. Just another variation on a theme.

There is no instruction for Christians to have a crosses, fishes, birds or any other creatures or idols found in the Bible. For most who claim Christianity this seems to escape them by to many traditions and customs of men infiltrating the religion. I am often given to stating that I find a great amount of ignorance among my fellow Chritians about many things including Christianity..sad but true.

Over the years I seemed to notice an almost reverse pattern of infiltration into Christianity and the passing off of non Christian practices as if they were Christian. The very same pattern of infiltration which took place among the Ancient Hebrews and lead to their destruction and Diaspora.
The Hebrews were to be following the Torah or what we often know as the law of Moses but were privily and secretly overlaying the customs and traditions of the Talmud over the law of Moses and acting as if this new paradigm was in fact the law of Moses when it was not.

In like manner this has been done to our Constitution and thus changing the status and law of the land unto the new Talmudic law of Maritime Commerce/Banking.
Someone posted about the 14th amendment. I agree..much has changed since that amendment and in Talmudic fashion not told or educated unto the American peoples.
And as someone else has posted...How about those Redskins, American Idol, and other important news and information's? I am prone to myself thinking along the same lines with the same question.

Oh,.by the way...I too am dubious about archeology considering where much of the funds originate. I believe that much of archeology and thus history is kept from us and deliberately. I also am given to wonder how much of archeology and history are in private collections verses public museums.

I have one problem with the thesis you are promoting here. I believe there are also political economic structures out here who are very anti Rome and they too have been around for centuries. I think this history too is kept hidden from us as to it's extent and pedigree. I believe both of these groups Rome and those against her are anti Christian. They are both Pharisaical in nature and highly educated/cultured. They both intend to keep the public uncultured and uneducated..but educated sufficient to function in their domain.

On page 7 Northwarden states very well what I believe.


Is Christianity invalidated by this account? No, not according to what I've studied. It was a misused truth, and like a cliche it has fallen at times among the careless breezes of some minds. Whether those minds were Roman or not, they do not speak for the heart of the belief. One does not take something of value and throw it in the garbage, and a great empire does not do this either. They take things which are of worth, and use it for their greatest benefit.


From page 8 your post PT


Right now, the highest entity in the structure I can really confirm, without a doubt is Rome.

Who knows if there is something above and beyond that, inter dimensional beings, other worlders, dieties, heck maybe even its just me.

But if Rome is hiding behind the Vatican and Religion and you take that away, then we are bound to get a much better idea of what if anything is hiding behind Rome!



I dont necessarily agree with this PT. I say this because in Conspiracy ..the visible is only a sign or symbol/representation of that which must remain invisible. Rome is to visible.

I do however think that Rome may be hiding behind the Vatican and Religion both.

I do believe that in the end Rome will be destroyed..as does Undo. I believe those who sleep with Rome today..many will turn on her for her whoredoms..and that is what is being done by this system. The buying, selling, and trading, of the very souls of many peoples and nations...ie...whoredoms. I also believe this system is very ancient..going back before Rome. Rome only made it more effecient.

I also believe that of recent ..the Jews and the English have co partnered in this system with Rome. Subtle tell tale signs indicate more and more communication with Rome in the last few years causing me to wonder at what level they are in bed together ..so to speak. Natural enemies at one time in history and today ..bed partners???

From page 8 and Josephus 23's post..


The actual Mosaic Code is not practiced by most Jews today.

What they practice is Talmud based Judaism, which is the basis for Christianity and Islam.

I know of very few true Torah Jews, except maybe these guys.


Agree with Josephus 23 position that the Mosaic Code is not what is practiced by most Jews today and what they practice is Talmudic Judiasm. I am not sure that most Jews today even know the difference. I also know that most Christians have never heard of the Talmud. They dont even know of the existance of such as Talmudic Law.

Neither the Olde Testament Nor the New Testament agrees with Talmudic Law..but Teaches Mosiac Law unto the New Testament where Mosiac Law is covered and debated/illustrated in many of the epistles.

The Torah Jews of whom I know today are called Karaites.

I will continue reading this thread PT beyond the page 8 where I made this post. It makes for some interesting reading and I plan to continue.

My thanks for starting this line of thought. Not the standard bill of fare one gets on ATS.

I salute you,
Orangetom



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 04:19 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


ProtoplasmicTraveler, thanks for starting this thread. Some very thought-provoking ideas! I've read your original posts but have not yet read the over 100 pages of posts that follow.

Some time ago, I came to the conclusion that the world is run by a core group of European aristocrats who also happen to be Nazis. (It is known that Catholic priests helped Nazis escape Europe after WWII.) This does not bode well for the future of mankind.

I really believe these same elites are getting ready to unleash more aggressive means to hasten their Depopulation Agenda. The world's population has doubled in the last 50 years -- this is unsustainable.

I have wondered how the extremely powerful Rothchilds network fits into this. You seem to have an explanation. I can't say that I endorse your ideas on this, but at least, you do offer an explanation.

I'm not a Christian, but I find it difficult to buy your ideas on Jesus Christ. I am more apt to suscribe to Edgar Cayce's readings on Jesus. According to Cayce, Jesus was a real man who happened to be an Essene (along with the rest of his family) and a fully-realized, "theosized" man -- meaning he had been perfected thru a succession of incarnations. In other words, Jesus was not an Avatar (descent of the Absolute into human form -- one without karma). But it is clear in Cayce's readings, that Jesus was an authentic spiritual teacher.

What was done to the teachings of Jesus is a whole 'nother story.

SeaWind



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Extant Taxon
 


It would be an over simplification to call the thread a Grecian New World Order Conspiracy since it is not.

This is what I was pointing out.

Generally I find people who use the word 'strawman' to simply be deflecting away from critical questions.


Certain words come to mind here. Something along the lines of "kettle, pot, black." You've avoided every direct question I had asked you by instead attacking the person putting forward the query. Look up the term "ad hominem" for your own edification. With some self awareness and critical self appraisal you may yet come to terms with your unfamiliarity with the basics of rational argument, use of informal logical fallacies to cover up your baseless conjectures which are, of course, compounded by a complete disregard for presenting sources and references to back your flight of supreme fancy.
Your aspersions relating to the suffix "pseudo-" (aimed at any aspect of an argument you seem not to be able to address) are ironic to the edge of pathos.

Can you work out what the above sentence means? I have my doubts as you have managed so well to misread and then misrepresent just about everything I have posted in response to you.

Here's a tip: take your time and read slowly what I have written before replying. Some examples to follow of your lack of reading comprehension.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Extant Taxon


Archaeology as an academic discipline is about as far removed from religious dogma as can be.


Considering most digs are funded by religious insitutions often Rome and are aimed at uncovering supporting evidence most often regarding religion and to draw conclusions that support current dogmas I would have to differ with this description of archeology.

I see it much more as a psuedo science largely based on interpretation that attempts to utilize the past to justify what is being done today.

In the thread we have uncovered a lot of evidence that displays who is funding digs and to what end.




Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Extant Taxon
 




I say there is no such "cabal" that you claim are in contact with.


Yet you are prepared to submit there was an Atlantis on far less evidence?

Yes there is a ruling cabal and a shadow government that sits above the governments of the world.

In essence you are simply calling me a liar, for the sake of something only you would know.




The claim was never made that an Atlantis existed by myself. I submitted the theories of certain other archaeologists with the intention of possibly contributing to your hypothesis, which, whilst entirely without foundation, is an interesting thought experiment. A nice mythic arc. Which is all it is since your evidence and argument is virtually non-existent.
Also, those self-same archaeologists are at least transparent in their presentation of sources and reasoning in advancing such a hypothesis. Contrast that with your own, especially as regards this enigmatic cabal you claim you are in contact with. Are you familiar with the concept of "burden of proof" at all as it regards discourse and presenting an argument? Look into it further.

Relating to reading comprehension let me clear up the following text of mine that you seem to have misread so ably:


Originally posted by Extant Taxon

Archaeology as an academic discipline is about as far removed from religious dogma as can be. You've misunderstood what I presented. It's not a belief, it's a hypothesis presented that seems to fit the known facts of the Minoan civilization as compared to the mythology of the destruction of Atlantis that may, just may, have a kernel of truth buried within.



Pay attention to certain key words and a phrase there (for your benefit), in order to better understand what I am saying. Read carefully it now.
Do you now note how my above statement is qualified? In that I only submit the possibility of a theory, not the reality of a historical fact? Do you know what the term "kernel of truth" means?


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Extant Taxon


That is why there is no way to progress here.


Really I would say it has more to do with a closed mind infected with instilled dogmas and a lack of ability to independently investigate.

But hey throw strawman around a few more times, psuedo intellectuals love that!


There is no dogma present in my system of thought, only an advocation of rational argument and a staunch adherence to the presentation of sources (primary and secondary), clear referencing to check those sources in the interest of transparency, and this tied together by logical presentation. This forms the basis of any basic historical narrative.

If you don't have this then any theory can equal dogma, when it gets repeated often enough.

How many pages is this thread now?


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Extant Taxon


My investigations into the real history of masonry, though in an amateur capacity, have been ongoing for some time now. Judging from your liberal and loose installation of Julius Caesar as the first master mason it seems that your studies have been erroneous.


What makes you believe your investigation into Masonry which you admittedly describe as amateur has uncovered ‘real’ masonry?

That would be a straw man argument if ever there was one, where you simply claim to be in possession of ‘real’ facts without even proffering that interpretation.

It’s just a deflective way of saying that you disagree while trying to insinuate one has good cause too.

So my ‘liberal’ installation of Caesar seems my studies have been erroneous based on what valid alternative you are offering again through admittedly amateur investigations and conclusions?


The onus of proof is on the person who makes the initial argument, not the other way around.

As for my "amateur" investigations into the history of Freemasonry it's merely a simple statement of fact. Here's a definition of the term from the Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary:


one that engages in a particular pursuit, study, or science as a pastime rather than as a profession


Do you realise what I was actually saying now?

Also, by implication of your "genetic fallacy" aspersion on my own status an an "amateur" researcher, do you perhaps acknowledge your status as a "professional" in that case? With all that entails?


professional: one that engages in a particular pursuit, study, or science for gain or livelihood



Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Extant Taxon


I am not able to progress with you here as all I am presented with is a stream of formal and informal logical fallacies masquerading as an argument, not least your most aggregious use of argumentum verbosium, on, and on, and on.


This I take it is your way of saying your amatuer research is not woth presenting to critical minds?


No. You've misread me yet again. It means, simply, that you don't know how to present an argument or participate in reasonable discourse.

Let me help you get started. Here's some basic starters for you:

www.nizkor.org...

en.wikipedia.org...


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Extant Taxon
 

Says the man who has presented no evidence for his own conclusions based on an amatuer investigation that he hasn't even presented the details of the conclusion beyone a adjective 'real' to describe his contention to be in possession of unstated and unshared details.

Had you read the thread you might have better understood it's not a college exam in text book history, and religious scripture.

The thread isn't about what people 'think' they know, it's about the things they don't.



Agreed. The majority of the thread arguing in the favour of your mythic arc adequately demonstrates a complete state of ignorance.

Those things people don't know, in case you're wondering.

By the way, here is one example of my "amateur" approach to research. While it may not stand up the rigorous peer review process of such serious professional historians like yourself, I feel a serious stab was made at following the historical method. I would highly value your critique of my essay in light of your privileged insight into masonic history. Perhaps I could learn a thing or two and be able to sidestep such pesky issues as referencing and footnotes.
Then I could make such paradigm shattering claims such as Julius Caesar surviving the assassination plot and becoming the very first master mason. Would you be so kind as to refresh my memory again on the evidence for these claims?

Amateur investigations into masonic lore and history:

Sons of the Tradition



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by Isaacland

Originally posted by Extant Taxon
Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Extant Taxon
 



Judging from your liberal and loose installation of Julius Caesar as the first master mason it seems that your studies have been erroneous.



Why you said that, I read every PT's posts and i I don't recall ever seen him said that Julius Caesar was the first master mason? He said masonry is secretly controlled by Rome..




Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The Ides of March and the Secret of the Skull and Bones 322



Caesar would become the first Master Mason, and lay out the blue print of building a one world government and society.




Originally posted by Isaacland

Extant Taxon, are you a mason?



Cast less aspersions, employ more critical thinking, would be my advice. Don't be too concerned though, I can start you off by making you aware of your error in argument.

No need to thank me.

Circumstantial ad Hominem
edit on 28/11/10 by Extant Taxon because: Fixed URL



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by the2ofusr1


The absence of most natural riches in the region traditionally inhabited by the Dutch, led to a trade-oriented, and trade-dependent, society. Positioned among some of the most important rivers of Western Europe and near the sea, Dutch cities dominated European and even world trade for more than a century, lending the Dutch themselves a reputation for being excellent merchants, and, at times, even being synonomous with the word itself.
...

Dutch immigrants also exported the Dutch language. Dutch was spoken in United States as a native language from the arrival of the first permanent Dutch settlers in 1615, surviving in isolated ethnic pockets until ~1900, when it ceased to be spoken with the exception of 1st generation Dutch immigrants. The Dutch language nevertheless had a significant impact on the region around New York. For example, the first language of American president Martin Van Buren was Dutch....Notice that the wiki entry for the first treaty was 1613 but says 1615 was the first settlers ...

...

The Dutch had settled in America long before the establishment of the United States of America. For a long time the Dutch lived in Dutch colonies, owned and regulated by the Dutch Republic, which later became part of the Thirteen Colonies.






Could this have contributed to the influence of the Dutch language in the New York/New Jersey area?



Soon after British annexation of the Dutch province of New Netherland in 1664, Philip Cartaret, governor of what became the proprietary colony of East Jersey, granted land to Captain John Berry in the area known as Achter Kol[1] He soon took up residence and called it "New Barbadoes," having previously resided on the island of Barbadoes. The land patent encompassed area between the Hackensack River and Saddle River in what is now Bergen County, New Jersey.[2]

From 1672–1673, Berry was the Governor of the Province of New Jersey. He is recalled in the name of a stream in the New Jersey Meadowlands, Berrys Creek, and the historic Yereance-Berry House.
en.wikipedia.org...




If we trace the original owners of the early land patents, perhaps we will reveal their connections to those who hold our bondage papers. Here's another intriguing tidbit:




Berry's advocacy of the right of the small number of settlers to remain in Newfoundland, which was opposed by the British Committee for Trade and Plantations, was an important factor in determining the future course of European settlement in Newfoundland.



I wonder what surprising documents could be found concerning the "British Committee for Trade and Plantations"? I suspect the same sort of committee still exists today, of course having undergone many transformations and name changes through the centuries, and is today being applied to new developments in third world countries who haven't a clue.

I strongly suspect that many of the people in key positions of power today are from family lines that were on "the outskirts" of the real power brokers. Those who had some knowledge of what was going on and executed the dictates of the power brokers guaranteed their future heirs a place of position in order to keep the secrets. Cushy, huh?

Gee, I wonder who is in charge of managing all these "human resources" for each of the governments?





edit on 28-11-2010 by Alethea because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-11-2010 by Alethea because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The Ides of March and the Secret of the Skull and Bones 322



Caesar would become the first Master Mason, and lay out the blue print of building a one world government and society.



If I may give my opinion, what is even more intriguing then this figure of speech , is when Proto referred to Julius Caesar as The Great Architect of the Universe. If Rome is really TPTB since Julius Caesar, Rome indeed could had designed the world by manipulating world historical events, managing and controlling the world in anticipation of, one day when science, technologies and resources will permit it, unifying the world under a One World Government (Empire).

The first time i've read Proto's 3 pages document about Julius Caesar, i was amazed and since the beginning of this thread, i've always stayed astonished by the amount of secret informations revealed by Proto's almost God like... wisdom..! Thank you for your most valuable contribution which is truly appreciated. May your generosity return the same, many times over.

Please Proto, accept this as a message of my deep gratitude for your thought, care and contribution to our Quest to dethrone TPTB, whoever they might be...
edit on 28-11-2010 by mick1423 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by mick1423

Originally posted by Extant Taxon

Caesar would become the first Master Mason, and lay out the blue print of building a one world government and society.



If I may give my opinion, what is even more intriguing then this figure of speech , is when Proto referred to Julius Caesar as The Great Architect of the Universe.


Perhaps "Proto" would be so kind as to relay his "god-like wisdom" to the lower hierarchies (much like dogma, no?) and inform us whether this was merely a figure of speech, though this sounds like a potential excuse via equivocation.
Besides, if I remember correctly, "Proto" ties the idea of masonry and all secret societies beginning in Rome literally, not figuratively. As in, it's not a metaphor.


Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The Ides of March and the Secret of the Skull and Bones 322



For 13 more years, Caesar would live quietly, in Seborga, where he remained until his death, directing the Empire under Anthony, Lepidus and Octavian, and laying out the plans to use math and divide and conquer warfare to conquer the entire world and place it under Roman Rule.

His plan would be a simple one, aimed at exploiting religious, ethnic and national differences through political manipulation and Secret Societies beholden to Rome.

Rome would be on top of the Pyramid, the Pyramid that sits on the back of the U.S. one dollar bill that announces in Latin, the tongue of Caesar and Rome, a “new order for the ages”.

Caesar would become the first Master Mason, and lay out the blue print of building a one world government and society.



By the way, no established order will be overturned by a web forum inhabited by what is regarded (by the very same) as the "lunatic fringe." That this would be the consensus amongst them is borne out by the sheer delusional fallacy of inviting the Queen of England, the Rothschilds, Cass Sunstein, and the Pope to participate in arguing against the so-called case presented here.

If the lunatic fringe becomes fully part of the establishment start worrying.

Anyone listen to Glenn Beck at the moment?



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by serbsta

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by serbsta
reply to post by xuenchen
 


Thanks to Epiphron we can confirm that the chart isn't genuine, it is fake.


Yes but is it a genuine fake?


I don't know. If you can show evidence either way I'd be happy to read it. I only found the chart and posted it here asking if anyone could help find the source that it came from. Epiphron found the source and it isn't there. Based on what we know as of this stage, it is fake. If you have evidence to the contrary, present it, assumptions won't get us anywhere.


Perhaps we start with info about the major U.S. banks that would by law "own" Fed Reserve district stock and receive dividends.

The "Nolan Chart" is fairly descriptive about the major banks::

www.nolanchart.com...

These banks would also have foreign holdings and foreign "owners" through institutional holders and mutual funds. Example of J.P. Morgan "owners"::

finance.yahoo.com...

The institutional holders are almost all private companies and are not required to disclose WHO owns how many shares of WHAT at any given time.

Many of the banks have public holdings in each other, and within the large institutional holders.


example of State Street Corp::

finance.yahoo.com...

NOTE that they are their own 3rd largest stockholder!! as well as the largest stockholder of JP Morgan!!
and they are a PRIVATE corp!


It seems to be a merry-go-'round of ownership and control of the Fed stock.

Although the Fed stock is all owned "indirectly" by shareholders of banks and shareholders of shareholders, etc etc, we could conclude that a more powerful "holder" would be well served to have "advisers" and "lobbyists" and "agents" deep within the banking hierarchies.

One example would be the German bank Deutsche Bank which has about 75% institutional ownership. They have (and have had) U.S. holdings in banks as well as U.S. subsidiaries that are members of the Fed reserve!


BankAmerica was dealt huge losses in 1986 and 1987 by the placement of a series of bad loans in the Third World, particularly in Latin America. The company fired its CEO, Sam Armacost. Though Armacost blamed the problems on his predecessor, A.W. (Tom) Clausen, Clausen was appointed to replace Armacost. The losses resulted in a huge decline of BankAmerica stock, making it vulnerable to a hostile takeover. First Interstate Bancorp of Los Angeles (which had originated from banks once owned by BankAmerica), launched such a bid in the fall of 1986, although BankAmerica rebuffed it, mostly by selling operations. It sold its FinanceAmerica subsidiary to Chrysler and the brokerage firm Charles Schwab and Co. back to Mr. Schwab. It also sold Bank of America and Italy to Deutsche Bank. By the time of the 1987 stock market crash, BankAmerica's share price had fallen to $8, but by 1992 it had rebounded mightily to become one of the biggest gainers of that half-decade.


en.wikipedia.org...

www.ny.frb.org...

findarticles.com...

Deutsche Bank owns Taunus Corporation a Bank Holding Corp::

www.federalreserve.gov...


a closer look at WHO OWNS WHAT will lead to the real controllers of the FED.

Deeper research is needed by all to uncover this with logical and common sense conclusions.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 09:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Extant Taxon
if I remember correctly, "Proto" ties the idea of masonry and all secret societies beginning in Rome literally, not figuratively. As in, it's not a metaphor.



I am not a historian nor a specialist of Free Masonry in general but Isn't masonry ancestors indeed, knights under the power of Rome. Do you think that categorizing passionated conspiracy theorists, as lunatic fringe could bring something constructive to the ATS community. What is your personal interest here and who do you think is TPTB.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 09:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by xuenchen

a closer look at WHO OWNS WHAT will lead to the real controllers of the FED.

Deeper research is needed by all to uncover this with logical and common sense conclusions.



Great post, and that's very true. We really do need to dig deep into this if we want to find the major players.

The names that we all know, are not the names we want. I suspect if we do enough research into the ownership of all these big corporations, we'll find a couple key people who fly under the radar yet happen to have their hands in everything.

"What a tangled web we weave, when first we aim to deceive."

They've been weaving this web for over a thousand years so the deception sure does runs deep. Following a single strand of this web all the way to the center really is the best way to do this, while jumping to conclusions as to who the spider is and trying to make connections where there aren't any will likely only tangle things up more.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 09:57 PM
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Foreign Banks and the Federal Reserve


In December 2006, foreign banking organizations operated or controlled 188 branches, 133 agencies, 62 U.S. commercial banks, and 8 Edge or Agreement corporations. A significant portion of foreign banking institutions' assets is composed of commercial and industrial loans. In December 2006, foreign banking institutions held about $216 billion in commercial and industrial loans, roughly 18 percent of the total in the United States.

Foreign bank branches face certain limitations, however. Although branches may receive deposits of any size from foreigners, they may accept deposits only in excess of $100,000 (wholesale deposits) from U.S. citizens and residents.

Some FBOs, called "qualified foreign banking organizations," are exempt from some Federal Reserve regulations.


the above quotes are right from the horse's mouth::

www.ny.frb.org...

Let's dig 'em up !!
a lot of this FED info is on the FED websites, but is very hard to FIND !! (surprise surprise!)

MEMBERS Please NOTE:

we can carry these FED discussions along side the recent posts about other "ROMAN" issues at the same time .... right? we are capable of "Multi-Tasking.
Thankx



edit on 28-11-2010 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-11-2010 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 09:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by mick1423

Originally posted by Extant Taxon
if I remember correctly, "Proto" ties the idea of masonry and all secret societies beginning in Rome literally, not figuratively. As in, it's not a metaphor.



I am not a historian nor a specialist of Free Masonry in general but Isn't masonry ancestors indeed, knights under the power of Rome.



No. Freemasons, especially of the 1700s - 1800s, claimed all sorts of lineages to ancient orders. Since "Freemasonry" (as we know it today) basically didn't exist until the late 1600s or the very early 1700s a history had to be invented to solidify their claims, in order to attract members. Such as originating in antedeluvian times, King Solomon's Temple, ancient Egypt, etc, etc.

"Freemasonry" doesn't have a history before the late 1600s. It has a purpose built mythology.


Originally posted by mick1423

Do you think that categorizing passionated conspiracy theorists, as lunatic fringe could bring something constructive to the ATS community.



I never categorised anyone on ATS as such myself. Read my post again. Carefully.


Originally posted by mick1423

What is your personal interest here and who do you think is TPTB.



My personal interest on ATS is discourse mostly to delve into the abundant conspiratainment on offer, and discuss more serious issues if they raise their head.

Also, define the term "TPTB" for me here, exactly (I know what it is an acronym of, so just what the term means to you exactly). Are we talking of a single unified power? Of a monolithic nature? Controlling the globe? Then I may be able to tackle your question on a more sure footing.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 10:12 PM
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TPTB =

"The Powers That Be"

ME =

"Middle East"
edit on 28-11-2010 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 10:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by xuenchen
TPTB =

"The Powers That Be"

ME =

"Middle East"
edit on 28-11-2010 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)


I had already explained that I was fully aware of what "TPTB" is an acronym for....

(facepalm)

What I asked for, and not from you, was an accurate definition of what the term meant to a previous poster, so that I may be able to answer properly. This is due to the likely difference in the understanding of a term between people.
He could mean various things when referring to "TPTB" that have nothing to do with my conception of the term.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 11:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by Extant Taxon

Originally posted by xuenchen
TPTB =

"The Powers That Be"

ME =

"Middle East"
edit on 28-11-2010 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)


I had already explained that I was fully aware of what "TPTB" is an acronym for....

(facepalm)

What I asked for, and not from you, was an accurate definition of what the term meant to a previous poster, so that I may be able to answer properly. This is due to the likely difference in the understanding of a term between people.
He could mean various things when referring to "TPTB" that have nothing to do with my conception of the term.


sorry!

I was posting the defs as a courtesy to readers who may not have known the meanings.

p.s. AND, I did not quote YOU or address my post to YOU.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 11:23 PM
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More on Fed Reserve

an interesting timeline from the House "report" in 1976
"FEDERAL RESERVE DIRECTORS: A STUDY OF
CORPORATE AND BANKING INFLUENCE"

adabyron.net...

and the "INTERNATIONAL BANKING ACT OF 1978"

www.fdic.gov...

and the "FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS REGULATORY AND
INTEREST RATE CONTROL ACT OF 1978" (contains investments "privacy")



CONFIDENTIALITY OF RECORDS—GOVERNMENT AUTHORITIES

SEC. 1102. Except as provided by section 1103(c) or (d), 1113, or 1114, no Government authority may have access to or obtain copies of, or the information contained in the financial records of any customer from a financial institution unless the financial records are reasonably described and--

(1) such customer has authorized such disclosure in accordance with section 1104;

(2) such financial records are disclosed in response to an administrative subpena or summons which meets the requirements of section 1105;

(3) such financial records are disclosed in response to a search warrant which meets the requirements of section 1106;

(4) such financial records are disclosed in response to a judicial subpena which meets the requirements of section 1107; or

(5) such financial records are disclosed in response to a formal written request which meets the requirements of section 1108.

[Codified to 12 U.S.C. 3402]

[Source: Section 1102 of title XI of the Act of November 10, 1978 (Pub. L. No. 95--630; 92 Stat. 3697), effective March 10, 1979]

CONFIDENTIALITY OF RECORDS—FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS

SEC. 1103. (a) No financial institution, or officer, employees, or agent of a financial institution, may provide to any Government authority access to or copies of, or the information contained in, the financial records of any customer except in accordance with the provisions of this title.

(b) A financial institution shall not release the financial records of a customer until the Government authority seeking such records certifies in writing to the financial institution that it has complied with the applicable provisions of this title.



www.fdic.gov...

soon after the 1976 "Report" we see new 1978 laws "protecting" foreign interests!



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