All Roads Lead to Rome

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I am kind of "shocked" that Memoryshock took the stand that he did Proto...

Because in all honesty, you have the natural upper hand due to the fact that your standpoint is valid and his is not.(were you each assigned a stance?)
He will have to rely on logical fallacies that will probably include weak appeals to emotion and authority in order to persuade the masses.

Although, I will say that he is a really bright guy and I am anxious to see how this turns out.

John Adams was adamantly opposed to universal suffrage because he thought that the uneducated masses were too easily swayed by demagogues.
And due to the fact that our very patriarchal society is, to this day, very opposed to women in positions of authority, it is easy to see how opposition to universal suffrage based upon education can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I would say that you see more women graduate with university degrees in this modern era, but that is very much on the side of public universities where an agenda is being taught to the students.
The last thing that anyone will get from a Public University is the ability to think critically.

Originally posted by Josephus23

And due to the fact that our very patriarchal society is, to this day, very opposed to women in positions of authority, ...

Does your mother know you talk like that? Women are the shadow government. The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world. If you were honest Josephus, you'd have to admit that from the day you were born you have had a woman telling you what to do...and you have learned to rely on their judgment. No man makes a move without discreetly asking a woman's advice. Women were born with something extra special that men do not have----mitrochondrial DNA---and don't you forget it. Patriarchal power is another illusion---and you seem to have bought it. Now go wash your eyeglasses; they look foggy.

P.S. Romulus and Remus would have never established Rome without the nurturing of the SHE-WOLF. You think wolves are docile?

reply to post by Alethea


There is some truth to what you are saying alethea but you are still a bit off the mark in piecing that all together.

I can't actually lay it out all here right now for you as what you aren't piecing together yet is going to be a major lynchpin in my final agruments in the Debate Tournament Thread abovetopsecret.com... and sharing that here now, would only tip my opponent off to the strategy I will ultimately employ.

But do follow the debate if you get a chance as I will ultimately expose the 800 pound guerilla in the room!

Then dress is up in leather and latex and make it answer "who's your Daddy, who's your Daddy"!

However not all men are reliant on women for guidance and advise. Some people truly keep their own council, and while one might argue their own council is a collective concious or god, at the ultimate source, their is no sexual division.

But I don't want to spoil the fun of unveling this all in the debate so I shall say no more.

What I do think is fascinating is that the topic of my first round debate and now my second round debate in the tournament of clear and strong ties all the way back to Rome.

I am actually curious now, if I win the second round debate, if the third round topic will end up tying in too? Wouldn't that be something?

reply to post by Alethea

The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world.

And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon, Little boy blue and the man in the moon.

The cradle can be
rocked to the beat of the Metonic cycle
A toast to Haley's comet
Or even a dance between Thor and the Midgard Serpent.

In the latter cradle there appears to be or not to be a his and hers final battle at Ragnarök.
Looking forward to linking my astral web

reply to post by Alethea


I will state that the basic premise to your thought rests with an idea with which i am able to agree with you, this agreement however is only to a point.

When the rubber hits the road, men make more money than women, men hold nearly all of the power.
Power, that has been centralized thoughout the world, mainly due to hostie corporate (country) takeovers.

i think that a valid argument could be made concerning your train of thought, but it can only be employed through abstract reasoning.

the actual truth of the matter is that the men and a very few women of the world call the shots, and the natural aggressive, territorial or fight until death instinct is programmed into that of a human's mind.
Men are geared to defend. It is apparent in their biology, but Women are much more caring and mothering and because of that, they are truly God's gift to man.Every man is really a child who has not grown up but plays banks and robbers, bur for real, complete with torture and sodomy.
And each NEEDS a women to make them grow up.

I want to agree with you Altheah, as I have found your posts to be quite a contribution and I constantly read and re-read them, but unfortunately I think that you are dead wrong (actually more like wrong to a certain degree on this on issue. Sorry if that sounded harsh, because I have developed a very high level of respect of for your contributions).

Originally posted by Josephus23

When the rubber hits the road, men make more money than women, men hold nearly all of the power.

This is true only because an outward show of power would be considered "unfeminine" for a woman and would compromise her mystique. IMO, a womanly woman would consider this usurp of male position to be vulgar.

And in our society men do make more money than women simply because they must impress the woman with their abilities to take care of a family's physical needs, where a woman's position is more about taking care of emotional needs. Not only are these roles defined by ancient chivalry, but they are also established by the physical nature of the human body in brawn and brain. In all fairy tales, the suitor must accomplish some feat in order to "win" the admiration and respect of the princess and be deemed worthy by the king for the hand of his daughter. Men have to prove themselves, and so society puts them in the role of breadwinner.

Watch the birds. The male gathers sticks and moss and brings things to the female. The female then arranges them to make a fluffy nest. Each instinctively have their roles. When the eggs hatch, they both take care of the young, but I would venture to say that the male probably brings in more worms than the female.

Have you ever heard of a King Bee? A King Ant? No. They all have a Queen. God save the Queen!

Originally posted by Josephus23
...the actual truth of the matter is that the men and a very few women of the world call the shots,

Not so fast there, Josephus! Just because women have soft voices do not underestimate their ability to call the shots. Take a week off and watch soap operas. Women know the (emotional) signs when a man is troubled. They will discreetly prod until they get it out of him. Then they go to work behind the scenes to manipulate favorable results so that their man can come out on top. Women know how to get things done quietly. Look at the examples in women of the bible---Esther, for example. She didn't cry and whine; she developed a plan with her sweetness whereby she allowed the villain to hang himself by his own words. And god forbid you get on the wrong side of a woman---think Delilah!

Originally posted by Josephus23
... but unfortunately I think that you are dead wrong

I have always trained my men and my dogs by the same book. It works! I am so good that my dog was invited to the David Letterman show. Josephus, roll over. Dead dog!



P.S.
Do you know what my name 'Alethea' means? The etymology derives from the name of the nursemaid of Zeus. Even the greatest of gods of male persona were shaped by the nurturing of the female.

reply to post by Alethea

Do you know what my name 'Alethea' means? The etymology derives from the name of the nursemaid of Zeus. Even the greatest of gods of male persona were shaped by the nurturing of the female.

The whole of Gaia is shaped by Sofia the Earth Goddess, it started here and her dominion over men, we only need to look to her for our strength Alethea.

But still, where is Rome taking us in all of this?

Suppose the changes will be brought in through the control mechanism of religion? Already we do have the Gaia green movement and religion is playing a big part in that. (see Alliance of Religions and Conservation ARC....www.arcworld.org...)

One thing that I found very telling (a few years ago) is the new universal prayer coming from Rome where the 'gender' of god has been changed to female. It was called "The Becoming Prayer". In this prayer, God is referred to as "She". It appears that this may have become a controversial embarrassment as the internet seems to have now been swept clean of the references to this published prayer. A search brought up "The Becoming Prayer" as being published October 11, 2005 in Catholic Online, but I get a blank page or "connection reset" when I try to access this page.

The general consensus now seems to be that "god" is androgynous as he created both male and female in his image. Nevertheless, all the images we see depicting this god seem to be a character that looks like Father Time sitting on a throne. (Horus aka "hours") And the old medieval prayer books are called The Book of Hours.




Why would this god of Rome represent "hours"? Hours have limitations. God is supposed to be limitless infinity. Is God bound by a time frame? Is Rome bound by a time frame? And what happens if Rome's world dominion does not happen within the constraints of this time frame?

Originally posted by Aquarius1
reply to post by Alethea

 

Do you know what my name 'Alethea' means? The etymology derives from the name of the nursemaid of Zeus. Even the greatest of gods of male persona were shaped by the nurturing of the female.

The whole of Gaia is shaped by Sofia the Earth Goddess, it started here and her dominion over men, we only need to look to her for our strength Alethea.

Yeah while you are looking for that strength Proto is stuck having to now fix his own dinner after spending the better part of the last several hours formulating my reply in the ATS Debate tournament as to the reality that women are discriminated against by being held to dual standards.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Dual standards as Alethea points out go all the way back to the beginning and are deeply rooted in religion and in Rome.

You ladies sure are not helping my opponents case any!

I'm a new poster to ATS, but a long time (almost two years now) reader.

Proto, I would like to give you my heartfelt thanks for this thread. As a long ttime history geek, your post did for me the one thing that I've been unable to work out for myself in all I've learned about history and comparative religions: It connected all the dots, connected the sections of puzzle pieces I'd put together myself with one another to form the final picture, filling in the gaps.

I have long been aware of the influence of the Roman Catholic Church as well as the 'supposed' history of the Templars. It's also addressed what I discovered about things pertaining to religious issues such as never quite being able to figure out why Jesus was purported to have been in Britannia, why there are no meaningful contemporary accounts, and why the Vatican seems to keep so very much secret. It has spurred some wonderful and very meaningful dialogue between myself, my best friend and some of my family.

Thank you for taking the great amount of time it must have taken you to put all of those concepts into a well thought out post that was very easy to grasp.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Dual standards as Alethea points out go all the way back to the beginning and are deeply rooted in religion and in Rome.

Sorry for posting twice in a row, but I had missed this post. I think what many who aren't students of history may not understand is the following: There was a time, a few hundred years ago, where the Church (RCC) went out of its way to teach men that domestic violence was not only acceptable, but their DUTY as men. After all, all women are descended from Eve and therefore born inherently wicked. It was a man's duty to God to beat his wife and daughters if they did not act according to social mores (which of course were set by the Church). When I impart this fact to some, they invariably laugh and tell that it's absolutely ridiculous. However, that is a very modern mindset. The very real and potent power that the Church held over people's thoughts and minds durring the middle ages is almost impossible to grasp in a society where athiesm is now accepted. If you were not RC, you were in very real danger of losing your life, thanks to that wonderful little phenomenon known as The Inquisition. If you didn't believe, and live, everything you were taught by the Church? You could - and would - be burned at the stake for heresy... The RCC were truly the original 'Thought Police'.

Having been raised staunch RC including having an aunt that is a Adrian Dominican nun, the more I studied the history of the middle ages and the renaissance, the less and less I could continue to have faith in, or support the religion that was force fed to me since the day I first drew breath. For the last decade and more now, I've identified myself as 'spiritual' but not at all religious. This entire thread just reinforced the belief that I've now held for a long time that spirituality is a beautiful thing, but 'Organized' Religion is one of the greatest forces of evil in existence in our world.

Sea Czar

Could it be that the Sea Czar's lineage traces back, not to the Thunder Gods, but to the pirate Sea Peoples?
Could an obscure bible story give us a clue to this heritage?

The 4th chapter of Judges tells us the story of a man named Sisera who was the commander of the Canaanite forces who had nine hundred iron chariots. He came from Sardinia, which is thought to be the origin of some of the Sea Peoples. His army was defeated by a man named Barak and this was one of the most important battles fought in the plain of Megiddo. (Armageddon is thought to be derived from the word Megiddo)

Many people have surnames based on the family area of origin. There is a city in Sardinia called Sassari. Some scholars believe that the name "Sisera" could have been adapted from the name of that city, Sassari.

In modern day Maritime legalese, your given name becomes a legal fiction corporation when disguised by an idem sonans, a word that sounds the same but is spelled differently and has a secretive legal connotation. Could 'Sassari' also be representative of 'Caesari ' as it is sometimes spelled?

If the origins of Rome stem from the Sea Peoples, it would certainly explain why Maritime Law prevails.

In the story of Sisera, the commander flees when he realizes his army is loosing the battle. He finds hospitable refuge in the tent of a woman. She gives him warm milk which puts him to sleep and then slips in and drives a tent peg through his temple to kill him. Here is the story in short detail:
en.wikipedia.org...-2

There is a biblical prophecy about "the beast" recovering from a fatal head wound. Knowing that "the beast" is not a person, but rather a metaphor for a "system of oppression" could it refer to the regeneration of the power of the Sea Czars in spite of this decisive Megiddo battle?


reference on Sisera name:
groups.yahoo.com...

reference on Megiddo:
www.bible-history.com...

reply to post by Alethea


You are attempting to discuss something of which I have argued your point several times.
So , out of respect, I would like to address the first points to begin with and then then second points upon finishing.

This is true only because an outward show of power would be considered "unfeminine" for a woman and would compromise her mystique. IMO, a womanly woman would consider this usurp of male position to be vulgar.

Now onto to the points to which I disagree (that was a beautifully put statement BTW..)

Not so fast there, Josephus! Just because women have soft voices do not underestimate their ability to call the shots. Take a week off and watch soap operas. Women know the (emotional) signs when a man is troubled. They will discreetly prod until they get it out of him. Then they go to work behind the scenes to manipulate favorable results so that their man can come out on top. Women know how to get things done quietly. Look at the examples in women of the bible---Esther, for example. She didn't cry and whine; she developed a plan with her sweetness whereby she allowed the villain to hang himself by his own words. And god forbid you get on the wrong side of a woman---think Delilah!

This debate between what is esoteric and exoteric, the brain and what leads to certain behaviors, yin and yang, male and female etc.... has been waged for aeons. The only reason that I prescribe more outward control to a patriarchal society is due to the obvious INward control that they not wield so naturally, and the often used method of poisoning or "kiling" anyone who might expose thee outwards (and sometimes inwards) is the preferred. Look up poison arrow frogs.

Women control the automatic behaviors:chores, or other repetitive ritual designed to focus on a singular mental target, be it television, themelves, but in most, themself period. as a means of escape, answers to questions, mental preparedness for death)
Women are the enigma. In creation they were the antropormorphic snake.
Where as now they are the only living creature that could truly be considered a God.

reply to post by Alethea


Alethea, I watched half a program on cable last night that covered the Sea People briefly in the part I saw, my thoughts went exactly the same way as yours, I'm gona research the sea people they've interested me for some time. How do they fit in with Troy sort of thing.

I have vague memories that I read a book saying that Yahweh was a pirates god originally, might tie in Masonic and Skull and bones motifs and piratical actions throughout Empire history.

reply to post by Thepreye


reply to post by Thepreye


One thing people truly might want to consider is that the Hebrews have in fact, never, disclosed the actual name of their god. When they write about God they spell it G-d, and when they speak of him they simply refer to him as "our lord".

Now the truth is there is/was no Yahweh there was though in the Canaanite Parthenon a Yahwasheh. Patron God of Pirates, Mercenaries and Protos.

You will have to look long and hard for a reference to Yahwasheh that has not been erased, but while you are looking you will in fact discover from Babylon to Syria, from Egypt to Jerusalem that the Hebrews have never revealed nor speak the name of their God(s). In ancient times the Kings and Pharaohs who negotiated the treaties as to which Gods had to be respected put in reference to the Hapiri/Habiru/Hebrew their unnamed God(s) which were believed to be associated with unusual celestial events.

When one looks at Christianity itself, objectively, it appears they are worshiping Amen-Ra, as every prayer ends with Amen, which is thought to mean the light. Christians actually (well their high Priests) worship the Sun, this is why they moved the sabbath from Saturday (those who worship Saturn) to Sunday, those who worship the Sun.

Now personally Proto thinks this was a good move, as clearly most Jewish people just do not have a healthy tan! Yet I think it is way to little beach time for people to be happy!

I suspect that at that point of time, that the 12 classic Gods which included the Sun by other names like Apollo and Amen, were the principle extra-dimensional forces, that made up the immediate heavenly bodies and the Zodiac, the Twelve Months of the year, that the 12 Tribes of Israel are a misunderstood metaphor, for 12 kingdoms of men that they seeded as they manifested all life onto the earth in a combined kind of Baby Shower, to get the planet going. Races like the Norse Men, and Mayans, Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Africans etc were all each one of the tribes and this had absolutely nothing to do with Hebrew scripture, as far as the worship of Saturn and other lesser deities, all of who were likely extra dimensional beings that imbibed certain attributes, like War or Commerce, Love or Poetry, Beauty or Wisdom etc., etc.

That this is why we have 12 months of the year, and that their were 12 disciples, and 12 Lictors and everything is measured in dozens, that the baker's dozen the magical 13th is the Sun itself which gave/gives life to the other heavenly bodies.

I contend that the planet itself is a life form, that the planets are life forms, the others having developed into a highly evolved collective conscious that eventually became the planet itself, as every form of life on those planets was slowly incorporated in a similar "War of all against all" until only one remains.

That they actually exist in the same point of time and space as us to this day, but on a different dimensional wave length.

That we remain a relatively 'infant' planet or form of life, still evolving, that as are a million microscopic organisms that dwell in and on us, the we and every other living thing is the same to the planet.

That over time even while the tears of a crocodile might no longer flow from a crocodile or the courage of a lion may no longer come from a lion because they have been totally eliminated that those attributes will live on in the collective conscious as we develop one through a dominant life form that emerges that devours and incorporates everything first into it, and then into the planet, ashes to ashes dust to dust, to create a collective conscious that then too, like the others will be able to operate as one, on that extra dimension, through time and space, to continue on, out into the stars and manifest it's own creations.

That part of that war of one, here, is about confusing people, who appear to be the dominant life form at this period of time, that will incorporate all others into that collective conscious to in fact not know the truth of this process, because ultimately it will all come down to just being one left, one last living thing, that has the knowledge of every living thing and attributes on this planet, who finally merges with it.

So keeping people from discovering the truth, is in fact what most of these religious texts, and false histories are about, it's all part of Bellum omnium contra omnes the war of all against all, where like in the Highlander movie, there can be but one.

One as in just one, no man and woman, just one, no birds and bees (my they sure have died off at an incredible rate haven't they) just one, no trees and forests (rapidly dissapearing aren't they?) no wild animals prowling the hinter lands (they are almost extinct aren't they?) no fish in the sea (they are being over fished and poluted out of existence) etc, etc.

While Bellum omnium contra omnes has been a concept since Roman times, it is thought to actually be just the war for one dominant kingdom to emerge to dictate everything in the Kingdom of man, but...it is much more than that.

Now if I believed fully in all this mystic, magical, extra dimensional stuff, and someone actually knew all this, you know knew it for a fact, he would probably be some really outrageously dressed mystic wizard type, with a really funny hat, and long ornate flowing robes, and a staff!

Gee I wonder where we could find someone like that. Walk into the Vatican and the first thing you see is the 12 signs of the Zodiac.

I do keep an open mind too, the fact that all these extra-dimensional creatures still do exist, that they influence us, that they are in fact around us, one or two might be hanging out in your house right now watching you read this smiling or frowning.

I believe it is highly possible to communicate with them, in altered states, where traditional reality melts away as you reach a different vibration level yourself, as shaman and priests often do with various gifts of nature they consume and ingest.

I believe understanding it all, is far, far simpler than what is put into the scriptures, that was meant to confuse people and create a shared backdrop and story line to evolve and fight the war of all against all Bellum omnium contra omnes through a shared reality that engaged everyone in the concept.

That yes, while they are dotted with the occasional actual esoteric bit of wisdom and truth, that for the most part they are deceptions, meant simply to confuse the individual so you will never be the ONE that wins the war of all against all, Bellum omnium contra omnes. That the things we imagine we understand through these books, we don't in fact understand at all.

That it is actually embedded deep in our self conscious as we ourselves manifest into this time and dimension and space to participate in the grand story, trying to order the planet at last finally into One so it too can reach it's full potential, and all the things incorporated into it, like a cake or a stew, through this long laborious process, which to us seems to take forever, but in cosmic time, is really just the blink of an eye, the twittering of a star.

That in part these scriptures are meant to separate us from our inherent knowledge by slowly indoctrinating us from birth, to disconnect and never be in tune, with our own inherent understanding of the universe and life.

Alethea wants to know where Rome is ultimately heading; it is heading to ONE through Bellum omnium contra omnes the evolution of the planet.

By focusing on one of the 12 ways exclusively, then you are favoring that ONE in this war.

The one though is the planet, it is the host life form that sustains us, we are in fact all being incorporated into it, ashes to ashes, dust to dust, like it or not!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Proto, Did Rome founded the United States with ''13'' British colonies, to secretly symbolized America as the next most Powerful Caesar's Legion, to be use to conquer and control more populations and territories in preparation of the next World Order and secret agenda of creating a One World Empire.

Rome used the British Empire for many years, so maybe to calm around the world, hate against England and to diverte attention, Rome secretly told England to step back, to let Rome changed its most powerful Legion and gave this mandate to a Roman territory of the New World...

The United States of America....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e9f0b64d8472.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by mick1423


Yes I believe you could argue Rome did in fact found the United States of America to function as a fighting force for the Empire. The Statue of Liberty erected by and through the Masons once the Civil War was over and the Roman Corporate Military Dictatorship, financed and controlled through London finally gained complete control. The Statue of Liberty is basically a military recruiting sign. Yet I believe the nation likely had a larger mission too.

Rome was founded on 7 Hills, at the time of it's founding there were likely 7 Kingdoms of humans still on earth. Five had previously been eliminated or incorporated.

Much of what America did was to eliminate another Kingdom of men, the native American Indians, referred to in the Treaties as "First Nation People". In other words Rome and London saw them as a Nation, a Nation of men, who actually had right to the land through posession. A right Rome and London wished to challenge and end. Clearly there was still plenty of growing space and resources on the European, Asian, and African Continent that was all tied together by land.

The deisre was in fact to displace those First Nation People and eliminate them.

Once this was actually done, that elimination complete, they likely signified this by refounding Israel, whose, six pointed star signifies that now there are six kingdoms of men left, which is why it 'appears' that Israel is now driving world events, as they become the tool to eliminate other Kingdoms of men, in large part by using the United States as a constantly engaged international fighting force, and the collective resources of it's people and lands to arm and equip and sustain that fighting force, and to help drive the political 'pretext' for support in eliminating another kingdom of men. This is likely to be the Semites, the true Semites the actual Arabs.

One by one, each will be culled to their remaining numbers simply breed into the dominant herd that sucessfully culled them, mixing the gene pull further, on that road to One.

Continueing on with Bellum omnium contra omnes, the war of all against all, which is the driving concept behind Rome.

It's real purpose to orchestrate it and to see it keeps being waged, war without end, until there is nothing left to war with.

reply to post by Alethea


look you contradicted your self with this statement.

2nd line

reply to post by mick1423


I am heavily engaged in self modification through ingestion right now , but I have one quote that sums it all up very nicely.

Proto you said this in your last post...

Much of what America did was to eliminate another Kingdom of men, the native American Indians, referred to in the Treaties as "First Nation People". In other words Rome and London saw them as a Nation, a Nation of men, who actually had right to the land through posession. A right Rome and London wished to challenge and end. Clearly there was still plenty of growing space and resources on the European, Asian, and African Continent that was all tied together by land.

Of the most stale options for the most efficient way ollective open ownership, the best suited should be the goal of all humnity.
WE are a a problem and when we handle ourselves poorly leading then humanity to flourish, eventually having no choice but the feed on itself.

reply to post by Josephus23


What do you think Josephus23

The ''Official Report'' of historical events in regards of the supposed fall of the Roman Empire, concluded that Barbarians toppled the Roman Empire but... someone once told me that, Rome used Barbarians the same way the United Nation is using Al-Qaeda to creat fear and justify terrorist attacks. The ''Official Report'' was made by an English Freemason historian and Member of British Parliament, Sir Edward Gibbon. Was Attila the Osama of today...

Are Barbarians attacks on Rome in the 5th century, in reallity inside jobs?, to create a chaotic environment to force a New World Order under the Holy Roman Empire by using Religion as a new way to control the population of the Empire. Strangely, many barbarian tribes converted to orthodox Catholic Christianity...and Rome afterward always stayed free and with Roman roots and so until today!

Catholic Christianity was legalized in 313 under Constantine's Edict of Milan and declared the state religion of the Empire in 380. After its legalization, a number of doctrinal disputes led to the calling of ecumenical councils. The doctrinal formulations resulting from these ecumenical councils were pivotal in the history of Christianity.

Christianity in the Middle Ages....

Beginning in the 6th century, European monasteries followed the structure of the Rule of St Benedict, becoming spiritual centers with workshops for the arts and crafts, scriptoria and libraries, and agricultural centers in remote regions. By the end of the century Pope Gregory the Great initiated administrative reforms and the Gregorian missions to evangelize Britain.

The Byzantine Empire which i think was the first military Legion of Rome after it when into the shadow, defended, promoted and force christianty to spread and then came the crusades and the Inquisition to christianize all conquered territories to assure obedience to Rome!

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